Glues, etc.
 

I have found some pirogue plans that look like something to tackle for
a first project. Simple cuts and nice lines on the finished boat.
Now some questions glues, etc.

Can you use construction adhesives? If so what brands? What other
glues do you recommend?I am thinking of glassing the outside seams and
useing some sort of filet on the inside seam, with or without glass
covering the inner seam. If I can use adhesive I can save on epoxy by
not fileting with thickened epoxy. I would run a bead of adhesive
along the inside seam for seal and additional bonding same as one
would do with epoxy paste. I will need glue anyway during
construction and "one glue fits all" would be convenient.

Is construction adhesive compatible with resin and glass if I choose
to glass the inner seam over the bead (filet) of adhesive? Can you
paint over the adhesive if I do not cover wigh glass??

I am not necessarily looking for long term durability, but would like
a boat with a reasonable lifespan. I am thinking of this as a
"practice" project.

Kirk P

Glues, etc.
 

Subject

EPOXY

Lew

Glues, etc.
 

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
k.net...
Subject

EPOXY

Agreed. Forget anything else, use epoxy. Although more expensive, it will
only be a fraction of the total cost of your boat and really really not
worth the hassle of using anything else with it's typical problems. You
cannot for instance make a fillet or bead with construction adhesive,
because when this glue is not pressed between two pieces of wood, it wil
just procuse foam without any structural strength. And don't go fo polyester
either.

Meindert

Glues, etc.
 

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 07:51:16 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

"g" wrote in message
.. .
I used this kind of glue when I made my boat.
Resorcinol glue is a waterproof two-part system that meets or exceeds the
requirements of MIL-A-46051 (Type 1, Grade A), (Type II, Grade C), and
MIL-A-22397 (Grade A). It resists outdoor exposure, cold or boiling water,
heat, molds, and solvents. Pot life: 3-4 hrs. Mix Ratio: 4 to 1 by weight.
Excellent for use on wood structures.

But but but..... resorcinol needs an exact fit between both parts and then
you need to clamp the parts together. There is no way you can glue to panels
or strakes of a boat together with that, let alone make fillets. There is
only one glue that allows this: epoxy (with a proper filler).

Meindert

Hi Meindert,
Agreed in principle, but..... I built my yacht triple diagonal over
stringers with resorcinol before sheathing it with glass cloth and
epoxy. Where I couldn't clamp the first layer to the stringers I
screwed them down through a block of waste wood and removed the screws
later - thus no gaps. In other places and for the second and third
layers I used bronze serated boat nails and punched them flush. What I
like about using resorcinol, apart from its aforementioned virtues is
the pot life. Also, epoxy has no sheer strength. Taking advice from
professional wooden mast builders, I glued my box section 45 foot
wooden mast together with it. To this day, not a problem. Most
resorcinol needs a thickening agent. I bought a powder made from
ground up olive pitts of all things. A factory that makes ply near me
uses ordinary domestic flour.

A tip that someone gave me for using epoxy after I had almost finished
building. To "clamp" wood such as mouldings firmly and correctly in
place when you do not want to nail or screw and cannot apply a G or F
clamp, apply epoxy along the join excepting for a couple of small
spots. Apply a dab or molten glue from a hot glue gun and then hold it
in place for 30 seconds. It does not move at all. Saves one hell of a
lot of frustration especially when pressure from a clamp causes it to
slide.

cheers
Peter
N.Z. yacht Herodotus

Glues, etc.
 

I used this kind of glue when I made my boat.
Resorcinol glue is a waterproof two-part system that meets or exceeds the
requirements of MIL-A-46051 (Type 1, Grade A), (Type II, Grade C), and
MIL-A-22397 (Grade A). It resists outdoor exposure, cold or boiling water,
heat, molds, and solvents. Pot life: 3-4 hrs. Mix Ratio: 4 to 1 by weight.
Excellent for use on wood structures.
It's 2 part and one of the cans is a powder reactant. If you use it, don't
get it on your fingers like I did. It has a feeling like your hands are
dying.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...resorcinol.php
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message
ll.nl...
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
k.net...
Subject

EPOXY

Agreed. Forget anything else, use epoxy. Although more expensive, it will
only be a fraction of the total cost of your boat and really really not
worth the hassle of using anything else with it's typical problems. You
cannot for instance make a fillet or bead with construction adhesive,
because when this glue is not pressed between two pieces of wood, it wil
just procuse foam without any structural strength. And don't go fo
polyester
either.

Meindert

Glues, etc.
 

"g" wrote in message
...
I used this kind of glue when I made my boat.
Resorcinol glue is a waterproof two-part system that meets or exceeds the
requirements of MIL-A-46051 (Type 1, Grade A), (Type II, Grade C), and
MIL-A-22397 (Grade A). It resists outdoor exposure, cold or boiling water,
heat, molds, and solvents. Pot life: 3-4 hrs. Mix Ratio: 4 to 1 by weight.
Excellent for use on wood structures.

But but but..... resorcinol needs an exact fit between both parts and then
you need to clamp the parts together. There is no way you can glue to panels
or strakes of a boat together with that, let alone make fillets. There is
only one glue that allows this: epoxy (with a proper filler).

Meindert

Glues, etc.
 

Peter,

We have been spar and boat builders a very long time.

I believe that you are wrong about epoxy shear strength.

If you remember breaking the very brittle pieces of linen and FR that
protruded from the completed joint, you should understand the problem
with FR. The woodworking epoxies don't get that brittle. This helps to
prevent the joint shear failure that is the common mode of a spruce/FR
structure.

We started the change to epoxy from FR about 40 years ago. It was a
carefully orchestrated and cautiously arranged so no work that went to
any client would ever be at risk with an untried application.

Spars were the last conversion. We made the family DNs masts with epoxy
in the late 60's. Two (that I know about) of the FR spars failed in
the in the next five years - both were joint failures - neither was
catastrophic, but visible splits developed in the varnish.

During Fall Off Soundings 1968, I made a mistake with that season's new
spinnaker pole. It got flexed so badly that the varnish flaked off both
the compression and tensile sides (it was hollow spruce done in four
grooved staves) but the finish was still intact along the joints. (My
father was not pleased with me and I got to refinish the pole before the
next race.)

Matt Colie

Peter Hendra wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 07:51:16 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

"g" wrote in message
...
I used this kind of glue when I made my boat.
Resorcinol glue is a waterproof two-part system that meets or exceeds the
requirements of MIL-A-46051 (Type 1, Grade A), (Type II, Grade C), and
MIL-A-22397 (Grade A). It resists outdoor exposure, cold or boiling water,
heat, molds, and solvents. Pot life: 3-4 hrs. Mix Ratio: 4 to 1 by weight.
Excellent for use on wood structures.
But but but..... resorcinol needs an exact fit between both parts and then
you need to clamp the parts together. There is no way you can glue to panels
or strakes of a boat together with that, let alone make fillets. There is
only one glue that allows this: epoxy (with a proper filler).

Meindert

Hi Meindert,
Agreed in principle, but..... I built my yacht triple diagonal over
stringers with resorcinol before sheathing it with glass cloth and
epoxy. Where I couldn't clamp the first layer to the stringers I
screwed them down through a block of waste wood and removed the screws
later - thus no gaps. In other places and for the second and third
layers I used bronze serated boat nails and punched them flush. What I
like about using resorcinol, apart from its aforementioned virtues is
the pot life. Also, epoxy has no sheer strength. Taking advice from
professional wooden mast builders, I glued my box section 45 foot
wooden mast together with it. To this day, not a problem. Most
resorcinol needs a thickening agent. I bought a powder made from
ground up olive pitts of all things. A factory that makes ply near me
uses ordinary domestic flour.

A tip that someone gave me for using epoxy after I had almost finished
building. To "clamp" wood such as mouldings firmly and correctly in
place when you do not want to nail or screw and cannot apply a G or F
clamp, apply epoxy along the join excepting for a couple of small
spots. Apply a dab or molten glue from a hot glue gun and then hold it
in place for 30 seconds. It does not move at all. Saves one hell of a
lot of frustration especially when pressure from a clamp causes it to
slide.

cheers
Peter
N.Z. yacht Herodotus

--
target of diversity
victim of affirmative action
refugee from the war on poverty
minimized by political correctness

Glues, etc.
 

"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...
Hi Meindert,
Agreed in principle, but..... I built my yacht triple diagonal over
stringers with resorcinol before sheathing it with glass cloth and
epoxy. Where I couldn't clamp the first layer to the stringers I
screwed them down through a block of waste wood and removed the screws
later - thus no gaps.

The OP asked for simple boatbuilding and wanted to lay beads of glue or
fillets. That sort of boatbuilding doen't work with resorcinol glue.

Also, epoxy has no sheer strength.

Que? I have made many joints with epoxy, and many of them even unclamped. I
have also deliberately tried to break epoxy joints in al sorts of ways and I
have never ever been able to break the epoxy. At all times, the wood around
the seam broke. In my book that means that epoxy is stronger than wood.

Meindert

Glues, etc.
 

Meindert Sprang wrote:
"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...

Hi Meindert,
Agreed in principle, but..... I built my yacht triple diagonal over
stringers with resorcinol before sheathing it with glass cloth and
epoxy. Where I couldn't clamp the first layer to the stringers I
screwed them down through a block of waste wood and removed the screws
later - thus no gaps.


The OP asked for simple boatbuilding and wanted to lay beads of glue or
fillets. That sort of boatbuilding doen't work with resorcinol glue.


Also, epoxy has no sheer strength.


Que? I have made many joints with epoxy, and many of them even unclamped. I
have also deliberately tried to break epoxy joints in al sorts of ways and I
have never ever been able to break the epoxy. At all times, the wood around
the seam broke. In my book that means that epoxy is stronger than wood.

Meindert



I suspect he meant "peel" strength.

Glues, etc.
 

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Meindert Sprang wrote:
Que? I have made many joints with epoxy, and many of them even
unclamped. I
have also deliberately tried to break epoxy joints in al sorts of ways
and I
have never ever been able to break the epoxy. At all times, the wood
around
the seam broke. In my book that means that epoxy is stronger than wood.

Meindert

I suspect he meant "peel" strength.

Same story. He might confuse that wit polyester which indeed has no peel
strenght on wood. Which is logical because polyester is no glue. But don't
try to peel poxy off of wood. you'll simply peel off the wood with it.

Meindert