'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

Any thoughts on this dinghy;

http://www.stevproj.com/FastSailrs.html

Its the second one down on the page, the 'mini cup'. You have to
download a 2mb pdf file to see all the plans for it (which are free),
but there are a couple of pictures you can see if you click on the link
for pictures. It looks a lot faster than the scows Ive been looking
at, and not really too much harder to build.... but the sail! Horror
of horrors, its a nasty looking piece of work, but will it work?

The wing dinghy on the same page at the top looks like a lot more fun,
but a bit more work to build also. The plans are cheap enough at $25,
but they're out of stock :-(

Thanks,
Shaun

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

imagineero wrote:
Any thoughts on this dinghy;

http://www.stevproj.com/FastSailrs.html

Its the second one down on the page, the 'mini cup'. You have to
download a 2mb pdf file to see all the plans for it (which are free),
but there are a couple of pictures you can see if you click on the link
for pictures. It looks a lot faster than the scows Ive been looking
at, and not really too much harder to build.... but the sail! Horror
of horrors, its a nasty looking piece of work, but will it work?

The wing dinghy on the same page at the top looks like a lot more fun,
but a bit more work to build also. The plans are cheap enough at $25,
but they're out of stock :-(

Thanks,
Shaun

I love my MiniCups and I built two of them, a trailer to haul them and
a dolly to carry them to the water. I have built several iterations of
sails for them. They sail very well.
So, get the plans but do not strictly go by them because they are for
1970s era boatbuilding methods.
Here is my site for MiniCup building:

http://home.mindspring.com/~ohara5.0/

At the time I wrote it, I did not have much experience with epoxy and
fiberglas so I couldnt properly glass them. I am now glassing them.

The visqueen sails work ok but soon fall apart as the duct tape fails
in water. I tried various things as I discuss in the site. Currently,
I am using sewn polytarp sails that work very well. My next project
for them will be reefable sails. I have used my MiniCups so much that
they are nearly worn out which is why I am now rebuilding them with
glass.
Andrew Butchard also has good info on his MiniCup building.

Good Luck and have fun

David OHara

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

Search this group for the words Mini Cup and lo! Hundreds of posts on
this subject!

MW

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

who said the subtle art of sarcasm was dead? heaven forbid that we
should ever re-has a topic ;-)

shaun

wrote:
Search this group for the words Mini Cup and lo! Hundreds of posts on
this subject!

MW

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

who said the subtle art of sarcasm was dead? heaven forbid that we
should ever re-hash a topic ;-)

shaun

wrote:
Search this group for the words Mini Cup and lo! Hundreds of posts on
this subject!

MW

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

Hi David,
Thanks for the info! I had a good read through your page and learned a
few things~ The links that you mentioned seem to be down though.

How do you find your minicup handles compared with other small dinghys,
especially to windward? Im a bit on the large side myself at 6'3" and
230lbs, so im wondering if this boat is quite big enough for me. It
looks to have plenty of flotation.

when you built your boats, what ended up taking a lot more time than
you expected, and what was the biggest blowout on the budget side of
things? Im hoping to get a few friends together and all build the same
type of boat so that we can race out on the lake near us, Ive already
talked my uncle into it and may have acouple of guys from work. If
things dont turn out right in the end though, I run the risk of being
drowned in the same lake by this group of guys ;-)

Thanks,
Shaun

I love my MiniCups and I built two of them, a trailer to haul them and
a dolly to carry them to the water. I have built several iterations of
sails for them. They sail very well.
So, get the plans but do not strictly go by them because they are for
1970s era boatbuilding methods.
Here is my site for MiniCup building:

http://home.mindspring.com/~ohara5.0/

At the time I wrote it, I did not have much experience with epoxy and
fiberglas so I couldnt properly glass them. I am now glassing them.

The visqueen sails work ok but soon fall apart as the duct tape fails
in water. I tried various things as I discuss in the site. Currently,
I am using sewn polytarp sails that work very well. My next project
for them will be reefable sails. I have used my MiniCups so much that
they are nearly worn out which is why I am now rebuilding them with
glass.
Andrew Butchard also has good info on his MiniCup building.

Good Luck and have fun

David OHara

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

imagineero wrote:
Hi David,
Thanks for the info! I had a good read through your page and learned a
few things~ The links that you mentioned seem to be down though.

How do you find your minicup handles compared with other small dinghys,
especially to windward? Im a bit on the large side myself at 6'3" and
230lbs, so im wondering if this boat is quite big enough for me. It
looks to have plenty of flotation.

when you built your boats, what ended up taking a lot more time than
you expected, and what was the biggest blowout on the budget side of
things? Im hoping to get a few friends together and all build the same
type of boat so that we can race out on the lake near us, Ive already
talked my uncle into it and may have acouple of guys from work. If
things dont turn out right in the end though, I run the risk of being
drowned in the same lake by this group of guys ;-)

Thanks,
Shaun

I love my MiniCups and I built two of them, a trailer to haul them and
a dolly to carry them to the water. I have built several iterations of
sails for them. They sail very well.
So, get the plans but do not strictly go by them because they are for
1970s era boatbuilding methods.
Here is my site for MiniCup building:

http://home.mindspring.com/~ohara5.0/

At the time I wrote it, I did not have much experience with epoxy and
fiberglas so I couldnt properly glass them. I am now glassing them.

The visqueen sails work ok but soon fall apart as the duct tape fails
in water. I tried various things as I discuss in the site. Currently,
I am using sewn polytarp sails that work very well. My next project
for them will be reefable sails. I have used my MiniCups so much that
they are nearly worn out which is why I am now rebuilding them with
glass.
Andrew Butchard also has good info on his MiniCup building.

Good Luck and have fun

David OHara

Windward performance? Well, She does better in more wind, say about
12-15 mph although I have done a lot of tacking to get places in very
little air. With the lateen sail, I have difficulties judging how
close I am to the wind. I really like the lateen sails cuz they are so
simple.
BTW, one of the best things I did was to place tie downs for a small
paddle on the deck forward of the cockpit. I have used this paddle a
lot when the wind died and I was waaaaaay out in the lake. She
actually paddles well.
As far as what cost more than expected, that is hard to say because I
did so much experimenting. The polytarp cost more than expected but I
forget how much but it wasnt a real factor. I think the MiniCups
should be epoxy/glassed with 4 oz glass and if you do so you will
probably surprised at the cost of epoxy and glass.
I have recently taken all of the foam floatation out of my boats and
have sealed the floatation areas very well with glass and epoxy. I
have put in screw-in access ports because I think you need to be able
to look in to see rot and other problems.
I weigh about 187 lbs and I have easily carried myself and my 130 lb
wife in her too.
Definitely reinforce the tiller, the rudder box and the method used to
fasten the rudder to the hull. The way the design call for the barrell
bolts to be fastened directly to the hull will cause quick failure. I
think you must use very robust fasteners here backed up with something
strong.
My 16 yr old son says he likes the MiniCups better than the sailing
clubs Laser because it is easier to handle and has a lot less
"adjustments".

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

Thats good to know.
Any ideas about maker her a bit more of a light-wind sailer? The winds
we get on our lake are usually more in the 5-10 range, and sometimes
even less than that :-( it seems there's either very little wind, or
there's way too much. probably the main reason i only see people
fishing and water skiing out there!

have you seen any with different rigs?

Thanks,
Shaun



Windward performance? Well, She does better in more wind, say about
12-15 mph although I have done a lot of tacking to get places in very
little air. With the lateen sail, I have difficulties judging how
close I am to the wind. I really like the lateen sails cuz they are so
simple.

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

You could make the sail bigger. Mine do not go all the way to the
back of the top spar. It really is already a big sail for the size
boat. Heeling her really helps in light air cuz it reduces wetted
area. In 8 kts, she sails very well. In 4-5 kt, she does move along.
The normal problem with lake sailing is the fluky winds and wind
shadows from trees. This is one reason for the paddle.
Basically, I'd go with the visqueen sails and make em as big as you
can. Then when you see what evntually works best you can make
somethign more permanent.
I have never seen any other MiniCups in person. I considered making a
conventional triangular sail with a boom and a jib too but that would
require some shrouds and a fore and back stay simply because I am used
to sailing a much larger boat like that. However, the lateen sail
really does give more sail area than anything else I could easily
build.
I think she sails well in light air and when you get about 9 kts and
look back at your wake you'll be amazed. Above 12 kts, the weather
helm really shows and you really have to hold the tiller and it will
try to bend to make her round up into the wind. Around 15 kts, it gets
exciting.
As you can see, I really like my boats.

The MiniCups were the first boats I built. After that, I built a
nesting dinghy for my 28' sailboat called a Two-Paw-9. Then I got
really ambitious because I wanted a power boat for exploring the local
coastline and spent a year building a Tolman Skiff. The boatbuilding
thing can really get into you and you dont want to stop.

Tomorrow, I start glassing the deck of MiniCup #2.

David

imagineero wrote:
Thats good to know.
Any ideas about maker her a bit more of a light-wind sailer? The winds
we get on our lake are usually more in the 5-10 range, and sometimes
even less than that :-( it seems there's either very little wind, or
there's way too much. probably the main reason i only see people
fishing and water skiing out there!

have you seen any with different rigs?

Thanks,
Shaun



Windward performance? Well, She does better in more wind, say about
12-15 mph although I have done a lot of tacking to get places in very
little air. With the lateen sail, I have difficulties judging how
close I am to the wind. I really like the lateen sails cuz they are so
simple.

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

BTW, instead of screws, you might want to use the silicon bronze ring
shank nails (A box with sufficient 3/4" nails is fairly cheap) from
Jamestown Distributors to fasten the stringers to the bottom. Of
course, the stringers should be glued with epoxy as well. When you
fasten the sides, you will use screws (and epoxy) because they will
pull the sides toward the stringers. I should have mentioned Jamestown
Distributors as a source for epoxy and glass.

wrote:
You could make the sail bigger. Mine do not go all the way to the
back of the top spar. It really is already a big sail for the size
boat. Heeling her really helps in light air cuz it reduces wetted
area. In 8 kts, she sails very well. In 4-5 kt, she does move along.
The normal problem with lake sailing is the fluky winds and wind
shadows from trees. This is one reason for the paddle.
Basically, I'd go with the visqueen sails and make em as big as you
can. Then when you see what evntually works best you can make
somethign more permanent.
I have never seen any other MiniCups in person. I considered making a
conventional triangular sail with a boom and a jib too but that would
require some shrouds and a fore and back stay simply because I am used
to sailing a much larger boat like that. However, the lateen sail
really does give more sail area than anything else I could easily
build.
I think she sails well in light air and when you get about 9 kts and
look back at your wake you'll be amazed. Above 12 kts, the weather
helm really shows and you really have to hold the tiller and it will
try to bend to make her round up into the wind. Around 15 kts, it gets
exciting.
As you can see, I really like my boats.

The MiniCups were the first boats I built. After that, I built a
nesting dinghy for my 28' sailboat called a Two-Paw-9. Then I got
really ambitious because I wanted a power boat for exploring the local
coastline and spent a year building a Tolman Skiff. The boatbuilding
thing can really get into you and you dont want to stop.

Tomorrow, I start glassing the deck of MiniCup #2.

David

imagineero wrote:
Thats good to know.
Any ideas about maker her a bit more of a light-wind sailer? The winds
we get on our lake are usually more in the 5-10 range, and sometimes
even less than that :-( it seems there's either very little wind, or
there's way too much. probably the main reason i only see people
fishing and water skiing out there!

have you seen any with different rigs?

Thanks,
Shaun



Windward performance? Well, She does better in more wind, say about
12-15 mph although I have done a lot of tacking to get places in very
little air. With the lateen sail, I have difficulties judging how
close I am to the wind. I really like the lateen sails cuz they are so
simple.

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

Thanks for the tip, im sure someone will find it useful.... but im over
here in australia in the middle of the desert in a mining town miles form
anywhere.... Anything i need except for really basic stuff needs to be
trucked in from a long way away. I'll probably go with screws ;-)

Shaun

wrote in message
ps.com...
BTW, instead of screws, you might want to use the silicon bronze ring
shank nails (A box with sufficient 3/4" nails is fairly cheap) from
Jamestown Distributors to fasten the stringers to the bottom. Of
course, the stringers should be glued with epoxy as well. When you
fasten the sides, you will use screws (and epoxy) because they will
pull the sides toward the stringers. I should have mentioned Jamestown
Distributors as a source for epoxy and glass.

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

I dont think I have ever before seen the words "sailing " and "desert"
used in the same sentence.

Have fun and I hope your boat (whatever you build" is a lot of fun.

David

Shaun Van Poecke wrote:
Thanks for the tip, im sure someone will find it useful.... but im over
here in australia in the middle of the desert in a mining town miles form
anywhere.... Anything i need except for really basic stuff needs to be
trucked in from a long way away. I'll probably go with screws ;-)

Shaun

wrote in message
ps.com...
BTW, instead of screws, you might want to use the silicon bronze ring
shank nails (A box with sufficient 3/4" nails is fairly cheap) from
Jamestown Distributors to fasten the stringers to the bottom. Of
course, the stringers should be glued with epoxy as well. When you
fasten the sides, you will use screws (and epoxy) because they will
pull the sides toward the stringers. I should have mentioned Jamestown
Distributors as a source for epoxy and glass.

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

"imagineero" wrote in message
ps.com...

snip Hi David,
How do you find your minicup handles compared with other small dinghys,
especially to windward? Im a bit on the large side myself at 6'3" and
230lbs, so im wondering if this boat is quite big enough for me. It
looks to have plenty of flotation.

Shaun:

I'm a bit shorter, but around the same weight as you. I had my MinCup for
several years and had a lot of fun with it. I sold it a couple of years ago
though as it wasn't quite the right boat for me.

The boat is incredibly stable for it's design. In light airs I would
sometimes sail it while standing up. I quite liked the lateen sail for it's
simplicity and not having standing rigging (shrouds etc), made things easier
too. You don't see many lateen sails any more other than on a Sunfish, but
they were the favoured sails of Mediterranean pirates. They're still
commonly used on dhows as well.

While sailing it with other boats I have found that it doesn't point quite
so high as a laser for example, but it's not that far off. I was never as
fast as other "commercially produced" boats though.

To review the "cons" quickly though:
- You probably won't be able to build it for less than you could pick up a
used sailing dinghy such as a laser.
- My thighs would ache when sailing in light winds due to needing to crouch
in the centre of the cockpit.
- As a "full sized person", there's not a lot of room to bring a second
person. It was quite a tight fit for my son and I
- Even though it's pretty quick, you won't be winning races against a
production boat.
- With it's weight (135lbs), it's on the high end for a single person to
transport on a car-top.

The "pros" though:
- You can put the money into it as you can afford to so that might make it
more achievable for people on a tight budget.
- It's a great boat to learn to sail on, very stable and simple.
- The great fun in building any boat.

I sold the boat to make room for my new projects and because I built another
boat that didn't require quite the same amount of athleticism to sail.

If you're interested, you may want to check out the MiniCup FAQ at
http://byyb.org/pn761/index.php?name=FAQ&id_cat=5

I've got some pictures and what not at my own web site at
http://www.floatingbear.ca/MiniCup.htm One of my favourite pictures is
being out in about 20knots of wind with my son -
http://www.floatingbear.ca/sailingfi...ough_water.jpg

I hope this helps with your decision. Feel free to drop me a note, or stop
by the BYYB board

Andrew Butchart

'mini cup' sailing dinghy
 

I was hoping Andrew would pitch in here. I thank Andrew for the help
when I built mine.

David

Andrew Butchart wrote:
"imagineero" wrote in message
ps.com...

snip Hi David,
How do you find your minicup handles compared with other small dinghys,
especially to windward? Im a bit on the large side myself at 6'3" and
230lbs, so im wondering if this boat is quite big enough for me. It
looks to have plenty of flotation.

Shaun:

I'm a bit shorter, but around the same weight as you. I had my MinCup for
several years and had a lot of fun with it. I sold it a couple of years ago
though as it wasn't quite the right boat for me.

The boat is incredibly stable for it's design. In light airs I would
sometimes sail it while standing up. I quite liked the lateen sail for it's
simplicity and not having standing rigging (shrouds etc), made things easier
too. You don't see many lateen sails any more other than on a Sunfish, but
they were the favoured sails of Mediterranean pirates. They're still
commonly used on dhows as well.

While sailing it with other boats I have found that it doesn't point quite
so high as a laser for example, but it's not that far off. I was never as
fast as other "commercially produced" boats though.

To review the "cons" quickly though:
- You probably won't be able to build it for less than you could pick up a
used sailing dinghy such as a laser.
- My thighs would ache when sailing in light winds due to needing to crouch
in the centre of the cockpit.
- As a "full sized person", there's not a lot of room to bring a second
person. It was quite a tight fit for my son and I
- Even though it's pretty quick, you won't be winning races against a
production boat.
- With it's weight (135lbs), it's on the high end for a single person to
transport on a car-top.

The "pros" though:
- You can put the money into it as you can afford to so that might make it
more achievable for people on a tight budget.
- It's a great boat to learn to sail on, very stable and simple.
- The great fun in building any boat.

I sold the boat to make room for my new projects and because I built another
boat that didn't require quite the same amount of athleticism to sail.

If you're interested, you may want to check out the MiniCup FAQ at
http://byyb.org/pn761/index.php?name=FAQ&id_cat=5

I've got some pictures and what not at my own web site at
http://www.floatingbear.ca/MiniCup.htm One of my favourite pictures is
being out in about 20knots of wind with my son -
http://www.floatingbear.ca/sailingfi...ough_water.jpg

I hope this helps with your decision. Feel free to drop me a note, or stop
by the BYYB board

Andrew Butchart