Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddet...p?prod=Sas18.5

Thanks,

--
Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
http://www.jemwatercraft.com

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

Matt Langenfeld wrote in message hlink.net...
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddet...p?prod=Sas18.5

Thanks,

This constant spamming is getting a little old. I know you came here
recently to sell your wares and give "tips" such as "measure once, cut
twice" to see your website sig file and that is ok, but just a link to
a commercial page is beyond the spirit of this group. Of course if you
had been around helping for a while before you came in hell bent on
using us as your own personal ad agency you would have known that...

Scotty, and don't bother flaming me. Consider me png here if you
wish...

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

Matt Langenfeld wrote in message hlink.net...
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddet...p?prod=Sas18.5

Thanks,

And before anyone flames me, go back and do a google and see over 1100
mostly helpful and detailed posts in the last couple of years, less
than a dozen I would be willing to bet, selling my own wares.

Scotty

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

so augh .... waddya trying to say? ;)

thanks for the input.

--
Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
http://www.jemwatercraft.com

Backyard Renegade wrote:

Matt Langenfeld wrote in message hlink.net...

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddet...p?prod=Sas18.5

Thanks,


This constant spamming is getting a little old. I know you came here
recently to sell your wares and give "tips" such as "measure once, cut
twice" to see your website sig file and that is ok, but just a link to
a commercial page is beyond the spirit of this group. Of course if you
had been around helping for a while before you came in hell bent on
using us as your own personal ad agency you would have known that...

Scotty, and don't bother flaming me. Consider me png here if you
wish...

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

Matt Langenfeld wrote in message nk.net...
so augh .... waddya trying to say? ;)

thanks for the input.

What I am saying is you are like the last spammer that came to this
group with cad drawings of untested boats (internet cartoons)... I
guess it is time for me to leave this group to you all. After all,
several such as Spira, Jaques, etc, have made it real big on the
internet by putting out cad drawings and having folks build the
prototypes, many times providing photos that can be used as sales
tools means a kickback on the plans. Some even spent countless hours
pounding the search engines, but at least he had some real credentials
and represented established designers. You told me you "run you plans
by" some friend that works at a design corp. I told you the first time
you contacted me and asked if I would put a link to you on my site
that I felt what you were doing was irresponsible. I guess I just
can't operate like that. I leave this group to the plan hawkers and
agenda drivers... Skcusemans has always been close to me but now I
realize why there may indeed be a need for orginazations such as
sname. Skcusemans is dead... If anyone is interested in unbiased help
or plans for boats that have actually been built and tested, you all
know where to find me.
b

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

I should note that there are indeed many folks here that really do
want to help. Brian D, Glen A, Steve B, etc... These folks answer even
when they do not have a personal commercial link to point to. There
are several others too, if you are not here to spam or hawk plans,
please add yourself to the above list.

Well, it has been a wonderful few years on RBB, and I will miss many
of you including but not limited to Jaques, Steve B,Glen A, Brian D,
Will W, Evan G, and many others.

I guess some of you know I had not been healthy for a couple of
seasons and did not do much building but now that I am healthy I think
it is time to melt back into the shop and re-examine my center. Thanks
again RBB, it was fun.

Later, Scotty, the Backyard Renegade. "I just want to build boats"

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

Matt Langenfeld wrote in message nk.net...
so augh .... waddya trying to say? ;)

thanks for the input.

--
Matt Langenfeld


And one last point, this response itself of yours shows the sheer
disrespect you have for the users of this newsgroup.

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

If you do also recall, we had a further conversation in the e-mail and I
detailed what goes into my designs/plans. You said "Oh well I feel
better knowing that". Or something to that effect.

Yes I have a couple friends who are naval desingers, one for the Dutch
Navy, and I get their opinions. But I bring my own qualifications as
engineer and my 20+ years paddling. Building prototypes, of which I've
done and are on the web site, doesn't prove much of anything. There's a
lot more that goes into it. There are rules, formulas, some pretty
heafty spreadsheets, and common sense. Building someting doesn't qualify
it as safe.

Me engaging you in any sort of conversation won't lead to anything
useful for anyone. So I'll just pass.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as we all are. Someone may
have the same opinion of you.

I encourage you to try to frame you future input in a more constructive
manner. People will respect you more because of it. Perhaps when you see
my name as the poster, you can just skip on over the message. Give you
less stress.

Best of luck to you.

--
Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
http://www.jemwatercraft.com



Backyard Renegade wrote:
Matt Langenfeld wrote in message nk.net...

so augh .... waddya trying to say? ;)

thanks for the input.


What I am saying is you are like the last spammer that came to this
group with cad drawings of untested boats (internet cartoons)... I
guess it is time for me to leave this group to you all. After all,
several such as Spira, Jaques, etc, have made it real big on the
internet by putting out cad drawings and having folks build the
prototypes, many times providing photos that can be used as sales
tools means a kickback on the plans. Some even spent countless hours
pounding the search engines, but at least he had some real credentials
and represented established designers. You told me you "run you plans
by" some friend that works at a design corp. I told you the first time
you contacted me and asked if I would put a link to you on my site
that I felt what you were doing was irresponsible. I guess I just
can't operate like that. I leave this group to the plan hawkers and
agenda drivers... Skcusemans has always been close to me but now I
realize why there may indeed be a need for orginazations such as
sname. Skcusemans is dead... If anyone is interested in unbiased help
or plans for boats that have actually been built and tested, you all
know where to find me.
b

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

that's incorrect

--
Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
http://www.jemwatercraft.com

Backyard Renegade wrote:

Matt Langenfeld wrote in message nk.net...

so augh .... waddya trying to say? ;)

thanks for the input.

--
Matt Langenfeld



And one last point, this response itself of yours shows the sheer
disrespect you have for the users of this newsgroup.

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

Matt Langenfeld wrote in message ink.net...
If you do also recall, we had a further conversation in the e-mail and I
detailed what goes into my designs/plans. You said "Oh well I feel
better knowing that". Or something to that effect.

This is certainly not the conversation we had

Yes I have a couple friends who are naval desingers, one for the Dutch
Navy, and I get their opinions.

This is certainly not the conversation we had, you told me he was a
employee of a local plastic kayak maker....

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

Guess the story keeps getting better all the time... later

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

oh yea. That's a different friend also. Do I need to provide a list?


Come on man. I'm not saying to not give your opinion. Just to relax a
little.



Backyard Renegade wrote:
Matt Langenfeld wrote in message ink.net...

If you do also recall, we had a further conversation in the e-mail and I
detailed what goes into my designs/plans. You said "Oh well I feel
better knowing that". Or something to that effect.


This is certainly not the conversation we had

Yes I have a couple friends who are naval desingers, one for the Dutch
Navy, and I get their opinions.


This is certainly not the conversation we had, you told me he was a
employee of a local plastic kayak maker....

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

Matt Langenfeld wrote in message link.net...
oh yea. That's a different friend also. Do I need to provide a list?

So you are running these by.. whoever? Are you registered with the
USCG for building? Just how many actual boats have you built? Sold? Do
you test your boats before selling the plans, or build after like the
last photo you posted? Or did you just grab a cad program on the net
and of course being an "engineer" for 30 years figure you could just
design plans and give them rediculous and I mean rediculous "estimated
build times" to draw in the unknowing? Honestly, when you came here
you did know you were coming to sell your new cad plans, right? Do you
support your plans, and if you have not built them, how?...

This is just the beginning, I gotta eat but it's a start.. Hope I was
"nice" enough to get a response but there is a lot more at stake here
for the first time builders than you seem to know... even being an
engineer and running your plans by, well, whoever... Yes, you should
have a list, especially when you seem to have no credentials...




Come on man. I'm not saying to not give your opinion. Just to relax a
little.



Backyard Renegade wrote:
Matt Langenfeld wrote in message ink.net...

If you do also recall, we had a further conversation in the e-mail and I
detailed what goes into my designs/plans. You said "Oh well I feel
better knowing that". Or something to that effect.


This is certainly not the conversation we had

Yes I have a couple friends who are naval desingers, one for the Dutch
Navy, and I get their opinions.


This is certainly not the conversation we had, you told me he was a
employee of a local plastic kayak maker....

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

ok those are valid questions. I'll do my best to answer:

-When I run into something new, for example I had someone ask my opinion
about making a fiberglass kayak from a mold, then I do research or ask
someone who I think will know to see if what I think makes sense. Better
to be safe then have pride. I frequently get requests to do power boats
that I say no to. 1) I prefer paddle power, 2) there's more to power
boats that others are simply better at. I'm not the final authority
expert by any means. I may dable in some in the future, but I'm in no
hurry. I want to enjoy this.

"Are you registered with the USCG for building? Just how many actual
boats have you built? Sold?"

-I don't build for resale. I have built for some friends who bought the
materials but I'm not a patient enough builder to be a good reseller.
Mine look good, but not great in my opinion. I build to be used, not for
looking at. No USCG registration. I've done 6 boats for myself, 2 others
for friends, and helped on a couple of power/sail boats. I've also done
a bunch of mock ups/tests to see how wood bends and reacts to certain
twists. The tests exceed, usually double, what I want to try. I use Home
Depot quality wood. If it passes those tests, then I feel better about
trying to incorporate them into my plans. The first lines of the Cape
Fear cause my wood to split. It was a total re-do.

"Do you test your boats before selling the plans, or build after like
the last photo you posted?" Reference above about mock ups for new model
ideas. I did build a prototype Sit On Top BEFORE the plans were cut
loose. I didn't post pictures because, quite frankly, it looked like
crap and I didn't think it looked professional enough to be put on the
website. When I finished it, I posted the pictures. That one has been a
nice seller for me. In the boat plans world, pictures=sales. CAD images
aren't so good. Just look at the reaction they get out of you. ;)

I'm not an engineer of 30 years. Sorry if that's the impression I gave.

The estimated build times are "touch times". They don't include waiting
for epoxy to cure.

"Honestly, when you came here you did know you were coming to sell your
new cad plans, right? Do you
support your plans, and if you have not built them, how?"

I came to offer opinion, learn things and make people aware of my new
stuff. You'd be surprized the ideas you get just talking about boats.
Hopefully I'm helping inspire ideas in others. I support my plans by
knowing the safety factors I built into them and the various experiences
I've had building. I use my knowledge from my primary career as an
engineer to help shape the hulls but also make them builder friendly. I
work in a small custome assembly facility...only 100 people. So I'm not
a hard-core number crunching engineer. I'm a jack of many trades there.
I have the technical education...and Associates, BS, and Masters, but I
don't have the qualifications of Evan or Jacques. No secret or surpize
there. Books give you the foundation. It's how you apply your knowledge
that counts. That's a whole other discussion.

As for my list of friends, I'm not going to go there without them saying
it's cool. And it's a long list. I don't run every idea I have by them.
Just the ones I'm not sure about. Scott (not you Scotty), formally of
Wilderness Systems, has provided the most info.

Next questions! I am on vacation for a week starting this saturday. So
if you don't get me before then, I won't be able to answer your
inquisition. Get on it boy. Inquiring minds want to know! lol

Actually, I'd be surprized if someone else on this news group actually
gives a crap about our little conversation.

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

From the point that it takes up bandwidth - yes !!

Does Scotty, 'peddle' his stuff? - yes, but subtlety, and with pictures &
finished proof.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{also with 3 degrees and 'hands on' experience}

"Matt Langenfeld" wrote
SNIP
Actually, I'd be surprized if someone else on this news group actually
gives a crap about our little conversation.

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

"Ron Magen" wrote in message ...
From the point that it takes up bandwidth - yes !!

Does Scotty, 'peddle' his stuff? - yes, but subtlety, and with pictures &
finished proof.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{also with 3 degrees and 'hands on' experience}

"Matt Langenfeld" wrote
SNIP
Actually, I'd be surprized if someone else on this news group actually
gives a crap about our little conversation.


There will be no more bandwidth wasted by the Backyard Renegade...

Commercial - Wilderness Tripping Canoe Plans
 

There will be no more bandwidth wasted by the Backyard Renegade...

Don't say that, Scotty. You know you'll be back eventually (who could
resist?) and we'll be waiting with a cold one for you. ;-)

Steve