Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Hi, all. I have the hull for a Snark Sunchaser and I am trying to turn
it back into a sailing boat. The foreman at my shop just sold me the
sail and spars for a Sunfish for $10.00 (!!!) that could be easily
adapted to the boat (I still need a mast - $85 from the factory). I
also need a rudder and dagger-board, which are $175 and $100,
respectively, if I were to buy them. Marine plywood isn't cheap,
either. I already have 3 quarter-sheets of regular 5/8" thick plywood
laying around the garage. Is there any practical way I can make this
stuff work, at a lower cost than buying from the manufacturer or buying
marine wood? Or is there something else equally cheap that would work?
I am on a VERY tight budget!

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Exterior plywood will work just fine. To test what you have, heat a small
piece in boiling water on the stove for ten minutes or so. If it
delaminates, keep it away from the boat.
wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, all. I have the hull for a Snark Sunchaser and I am trying to turn
it back into a sailing boat. The foreman at my shop just sold me the
sail and spars for a Sunfish for $10.00 (!!!) that could be easily
adapted to the boat (I still need a mast - $85 from the factory). I
also need a rudder and dagger-board, which are $175 and $100,
respectively, if I were to buy them. Marine plywood isn't cheap,
either. I already have 3 quarter-sheets of regular 5/8" thick plywood
laying around the garage. Is there any practical way I can make this
stuff work, at a lower cost than buying from the manufacturer or buying
marine wood? Or is there something else equally cheap that would work?
I am on a VERY tight budget!

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Hell, I used exterior 1/2" ply. I filled any edge voids with wood putty and
then put 4 or 5 coats of polyurethane on. It isn't like it's going to be in
the water for any long periods of time... Just store it in a dry place.

Ed

--
When replying via email, replace spam with speak in the address.
"Mike Gardner" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Dave W" wrote:

Exterior plywood will work just fine. To test what you have, heat a
small
piece in boiling water on the stove for ten minutes or so. If it
delaminates, keep it away from the boat.
wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, all. I have the hull for a Snark Sunchaser and I am trying to turn
it back into a sailing boat. The foreman at my shop just sold me the
sail and spars for a Sunfish for $10.00 (!!!) that could be easily
adapted to the boat (I still need a mast - $85 from the factory). I
also need a rudder and dagger-board, which are $175 and $100,
respectively, if I were to buy them. Marine plywood isn't cheap,
either. I already have 3 quarter-sheets of regular 5/8" thick plywood
laying around the garage. Is there any practical way I can make this
stuff work, at a lower cost than buying from the manufacturer or buying
marine wood? Or is there something else equally cheap that would work?
I am on a VERY tight budget!


I built a "dagger board" for my snark sunflower out of the best
exterior grade I could find in central illinois - found something with 5
plies in half inch ( sized used on the sunflower). I then put two coats
of epoxy on it. Worked fine.

--
Though posted through facilities afforded by UIUC, though my employer,
this post and the opinions herein are mine alone and have nothing
whatsoever to do with my position or my employer.

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Well Scout,

The only difference between marine and exterior is that there are no
voids allowed in the core of marine. Think of how much that will mean
in this application.

For a mast,
Buy a piece of AL tube (.060 wall will do). Make and hammer wood plugs
in both ends and the pick one end to drill through sideways to run in an
eyebolt to hold the halyard block.

Good Luck

Matt Colie


wrote:
Hi, all. I have the hull for a Snark Sunchaser and I am trying to turn
it back into a sailing boat. The foreman at my shop just sold me the
sail and spars for a Sunfish for $10.00 (!!!) that could be easily
adapted to the boat (I still need a mast - $85 from the factory). I
also need a rudder and dagger-board, which are $175 and $100,
respectively, if I were to buy them. Marine plywood isn't cheap,
either. I already have 3 quarter-sheets of regular 5/8" thick plywood
laying around the garage. Is there any practical way I can make this
stuff work, at a lower cost than buying from the manufacturer or buying
marine wood? Or is there something else equally cheap that would work?
I am on a VERY tight budget!

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Now, it looks like CPES is somewhat expensive. Might it be somewhat
cheaper, and work just as well, to buy a fiberglass mat-and-resin kit
from the local auto parts store and put one or two layers of glass over
the plywood?

Also, the factory rudder is a kickup design. Should I go ahead and
attempt this, or should I keep it simple? Any good sources for design
ideas for eithe fixed or kickup rudders?

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

Now, it looks like CPES is somewhat expensive. Might it be somewhat
cheaper, and work just as well, to buy a fiberglass mat-and-resin kit
from the local auto parts store and put one or two layers of glass over
the plywood?

That won't work. The auto part muck is polyester and mat, which does not
stick to wood. It might look like it does, but a baby could peel it off....

Meindert

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

The factory rudder is a kickup design. Should I go ahead and
attempt this, or should I keep it simple? Any good sources for design
ideas for either fixed or kickup rudders?

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

There's a couple of different ways to make a kick-up rudder. The most
common is to use a case with the rudder on a pivot in the middle. There's a
couple of pictures of one I built at
http://www.floatingbear.ca/MiniCupModifications.htm. You may also want to
check out Jim Michelak's free online newsletters for more ideas -
http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/

BTW - I've used barn-boards (1 X 12 pine) that is easily available to me as
rudders and daggerboards and they've been inexpensive and worked well.

--
Andrew Butchart


wrote in message
oups.com...



The factory rudder is a kickup design. Should I go ahead and
attempt this, or should I keep it simple? Any good sources for design
ideas for either fixed or kickup rudders?

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Andrew Butchart wrote:
There's a couple of different ways to make a kick-up rudder. The most
common is to use a case with the rudder on a pivot in the middle. There's a
couple of pictures of one I built at
http://www.floatingbear.ca/MiniCupModifications.htm. You may also want to
check out Jim Michelak's free online newsletters for more ideas -
http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/

BTW - I've used barn-boards (1 X 12 pine) that is easily available to me as
rudders and daggerboards and they've been inexpensive and worked well.

--
Andrew Butchart



Now, that looks like a fairly simple design. What did you use for the
sides of the rudder box? Luan, or marine plywood? Or something else?
And what did you finish the wood with? Also, what would make an
inexpensive substitute for a hockey stick for a tiller? Does it have to
be hardwood, or would more of the "barn board" work? And what did you
use for hinges? It looks like the hinge hookups on the Snark are two
metal tabs with holes drilled through them vertically, like one long
pin (or 2 short ones) is supposed to drop through them. Thanks!

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

For a mast,
Buy a piece of AL tube (.060 wall will do). Make and hammer wood plugs
in both ends and the pick one end to drill through sideways to run in an
eyebolt to hold the halyard block.

Not having much luck finding anybody who has 2-3/8" diameter aluminum
tubing in 12' lengths. It seems to jump from 2" to 2-1/2" to 3" every
place I've checked so far. Do you know of anyone who would have it in
that diameter and length, who would charge well under $85 for it (if
I'm going to pay that much, even including shipping, I may as well buy
the factory part).

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

wrote in message
oups.com...


Andrew Butchart wrote:
There's a couple of different ways to make a kick-up rudder. The most
common is to use a case with the rudder on a pivot in the middle.
There's a
couple of pictures of one I built at
http://www.floatingbear.ca/MiniCupModifications.htm. You may also want
to
check out Jim Michelak's free online newsletters for more ideas -
http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/

BTW - I've used barn-boards (1 X 12 pine) that is easily available to me
as
rudders and daggerboards and they've been inexpensive and worked well.

--
Andrew Butchart



Now, that looks like a fairly simple design. What did you use for the
sides of the rudder box? Luan, or marine plywood? Or something else?
And what did you finish the wood with? Also, what would make an
inexpensive substitute for a hockey stick for a tiller? Does it have to
be hardwood, or would more of the "barn board" work? And what did you
use for hinges? It looks like the hinge hookups on the Snark are two
metal tabs with holes drilled through them vertically, like one long
pin (or 2 short ones) is supposed to drop through them. Thanks!


I just used 1/4" luan for the sides of the rudder box. I coat the inside of
the box with resin (I use polyester - epoxy is better though - although more
expensive). The rudder itself got coated with resin and then painted with
rust pain.

One thing I like about old hockey sticks for tillers is not only are they
free and available here in Canada, but the better ones include fiberglass
laminates. A lot of people use axe handles for a tiller as well - I've
sailed on a boat with one of those and they're quite comfortable in your
hand.

There are lots of ways to attach the rudder to the boat - it sounds like you
have a typical gudgeon and pintle arrangement. You might want to check out
Duckworks - http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/p-g/index.htm

You could also consider putting two small eye-bolts on the front of your
rudder box spaced so they fit between the metal tabs. A piece of metal rod
through can then act as a pivot. I have a blurry picture of one I built
like that at - http://www.floatingbear.ca/sailingfi...gue/000833.JPG

--
Andrew Butchart

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Andrew Butchart wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...


Andrew Butchart wrote:
There's a couple of different ways to make a kick-up rudder. The most
common is to use a case with the rudder on a pivot in the middle.
There's a
couple of pictures of one I built at
http://www.floatingbear.ca/MiniCupModifications.htm. You may also want
to
check out Jim Michelak's free online newsletters for more ideas -
http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/

BTW - I've used barn-boards (1 X 12 pine) that is easily available to me
as
rudders and daggerboards and they've been inexpensive and worked well.

--
Andrew Butchart



Now, that looks like a fairly simple design. What did you use for the
sides of the rudder box? Luan, or marine plywood? Or something else?
And what did you finish the wood with? Also, what would make an
inexpensive substitute for a hockey stick for a tiller? Does it have to
be hardwood, or would more of the "barn board" work? And what did you
use for hinges? It looks like the hinge hookups on the Snark are two
metal tabs with holes drilled through them vertically, like one long
pin (or 2 short ones) is supposed to drop through them. Thanks!


I just used 1/4" luan for the sides of the rudder box. I coat the inside of
the box with resin (I use polyester - epoxy is better though - although more
expensive). The rudder itself got coated with resin and then painted with
rust pain.

One thing I like about old hockey sticks for tillers is not only are they
free and available here in Canada, but the better ones include fiberglass
laminates. A lot of people use axe handles for a tiller as well - I've
sailed on a boat with one of those and they're quite comfortable in your
hand.

There are lots of ways to attach the rudder to the boat - it sounds like you
have a typical gudgeon and pintle arrangement. You might want to check out
Duckworks - http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/p-g/index.htm

You could also consider putting two small eye-bolts on the front of your
rudder box spaced so they fit between the metal tabs. A piece of metal rod
through can then act as a pivot. I have a blurry picture of one I built
like that at - http://www.floatingbear.ca/sailingfi...gue/000833.JPG

--
Andrew Butchart


Thanks! Now, if I can solve my mast problem I can hopefully get the
boat sailing before summer ends!

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

wrote:

Thanks! Now, if I can solve my mast problem I can hopefully get the
boat sailing before summer ends!

Have you considered using a wooden mast? 12' is pretty short and you
should be able to make something fairly easily especially if you have a
table saw that you can use to "8 - side" it. The only real difference
is the chance of the wood swelling and it being stuck in the mast tube
(leave some space to allow for that) and a slight additional weight
aloft.

--
Andrew Butchart

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

A 2 inch mast can be made from a single "2 x 4" (1½" x 3½"). Rip a 1½ x 2
from it, then rip the cut-off into two 1/4" pieces and epoxy them to the
sides. The notches will be trimmed when you plane off the corners as part
of the 8-siding operation.

Roger

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

wrote:

Thanks! Now, if I can solve my mast problem I can hopefully get the
boat sailing before summer ends!

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

What about using a wind surfer mast? Lot's of old ones around.
"derbyrm" wrote in message
m...
A 2 inch mast can be made from a single "2 x 4" (1½" x 3½"). Rip a 1½ x 2
from it, then rip the cut-off into two 1/4" pieces and epoxy them to the
sides. The notches will be trimmed when you plane off the corners as part
of the 8-siding operation.

Roger

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

wrote:

Thanks! Now, if I can solve my mast problem I can hopefully get the
boat sailing before summer ends!

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Wasn't this for a Snark? Go get a couple lengths of antenna pole and be
done with it. All that epoxying and stuff is more than the boat is worth.

Ed

--
When replying via email, replace spam with speak in the address.
"MMC" wrote in message
.. .
What about using a wind surfer mast? Lot's of old ones around.
"derbyrm" wrote in message
m...
A 2 inch mast can be made from a single "2 x 4" (1½" x 3½"). Rip a 1½ x
2
from it, then rip the cut-off into two 1/4" pieces and epoxy them to the
sides. The notches will be trimmed when you plane off the corners as
part
of the 8-siding operation.

Roger

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

wrote:

Thanks! Now, if I can solve my mast problem I can hopefully get the
boat sailing before summer ends!

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Ed Edelenbos wrote:
Wasn't this for a Snark? Go get a couple lengths of antenna pole and be
done with it. All that epoxying and stuff is more than the boat is worth.

Ed


I've never seen antenna mast that was 2-3/8" diameter, which is the
size of a stock mast. Closest thing I've found so far is 2" (nominal)
aluminum pipe. Schedule 40 has a .154" wall thickness.

As for "more than the boat is worth", isn't that a rather subjective
statement? Mind you, I'm new to this sailing thing, but it's the only
sailing boat I've got and likely will be for some time, so I've got to
make the best of it.

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

Ed Edelenbos wrote:
Wasn't this for a Snark? Go get a couple lengths of antenna pole and be
done with it. All that epoxying and stuff is more than the boat is
worth.

Ed


I've never seen antenna mast that was 2-3/8" diameter, which is the
size of a stock mast. Closest thing I've found so far is 2" (nominal)
aluminum pipe. Schedule 40 has a .154" wall thickness.

As for "more than the boat is worth", isn't that a rather subjective
statement? Mind you, I'm new to this sailing thing, but it's the only
sailing boat I've got and likely will be for some time, so I've got to
make the best of it.


Maybe you have a different Snark than I have. Mine uses a 1" diameter
aluminum mast. It is similar to:

http://www.castlecraft.com/super_snark.htm

I'm just saying that unless you got into the hobby to work on boats (a fine
hobby in it's own right), a lot of the work described here (so far) would
take the up a good deal of the season (and I would reserve for a much nicer
boat). I just want to go for boat rides in my boats. Repair and
maintainance is a necessity... not the impetus for owning boats.

As long as you are having fun... have at it!

Ed

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Ed Edelenbos wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Ed Edelenbos wrote:
Wasn't this for a Snark? Go get a couple lengths of antenna pole and be
done with it. All that epoxying and stuff is more than the boat is
worth.

Ed


I've never seen antenna mast that was 2-3/8" diameter, which is the
size of a stock mast. Closest thing I've found so far is 2" (nominal)
aluminum pipe. Schedule 40 has a .154" wall thickness.

As for "more than the boat is worth", isn't that a rather subjective
statement? Mind you, I'm new to this sailing thing, but it's the only
sailing boat I've got and likely will be for some time, so I've got to
make the best of it.


Maybe you have a different Snark than I have. Mine uses a 1" diameter
aluminum mast. It is similar to:

http://www.castlecraft.com/super_snark.htm

I'm just saying that unless you got into the hobby to work on boats (a fine
hobby in it's own right), a lot of the work described here (so far) would
take the up a good deal of the season (and I would reserve for a much nicer
boat). I just want to go for boat rides in my boats. Repair and
maintainance is a necessity... not the impetus for owning boats.

As long as you are having fun... have at it!

Ed

Hmm... kinda like owning an older snowmobile - you don't want to spend
half the season fixing it up (speaking from experience here...)

The Snark I have is the Sunchaser. It is the biggest model they make,
with a capacity for up to 4 adults (900 lbs). It also has provisions
for oars, and will take up to a 5hp outboard as well. The Sunchaser I
has a 72 square-foot lateen sail (the Sunfish sail I'm going to use is
75 square-feet - doubt that will make much difference), while the
Sunchaser II has a sloop-rig, with a, 80 square-foot mainsail (don't
remember what size the jibsail is). The hulls are identical, though,
and the sail rigs are interchangeable.

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

Careful here. The Sunfish sail was nominally 75 square feet, but actually
measured about 90. The newer sails are about 95.

In my Sunfish, I remember one day when I literally sailed in circles around
a couple of young women in a Snark. I heard one of them tell the other "I
don't know what he's doing!"

Evil. Fun!

Roger

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

wrote in message
oups.com...

The Snark I have is the Sunchaser. It is the biggest model they make,
with a capacity for up to 4 adults (900 lbs). It also has provisions
for oars, and will take up to a 5hp outboard as well. The Sunchaser I
has a 72 square-foot lateen sail (the Sunfish sail I'm going to use is
75 square-feet - doubt that will make much difference), while the
Sunchaser II has a sloop-rig, with a, 80 square-foot mainsail (don't
remember what size the jibsail is). The hulls are identical, though,
and the sail rigs are interchangeable.

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

derbyrm wrote:
Careful here. The Sunfish sail was nominally 75 square feet, but actually
measured about 90. The newer sails are about 95.

In my Sunfish, I remember one day when I literally sailed in circles around
a couple of young women in a Snark. I heard one of them tell the other "I
don't know what he's doing!"

Evil. Fun!


Well, I don't know the exact measurements of the stock Sunchaser I
sail. The literature says 72 square-feet. I do know that the spars on
the Sunfish sail I have are pretty close to the proper length - about
the length of the hull give or take a little. Only modification I can
see that I will have to make is to remove one of the pulleys from the
lower spar, and relocate the other pulley to the rear of the lower
spar, since the Sunchaser is rigged a bit differently from a Sunfish.
Check out www.castlecraft.com and you will see what I mean.

Making a rudder and dagger-board (newbie)
 

I checked out your reference, and I may be a bit confused. It's been some
30 years, and the Snark line seems to have changed quite a bit. My
reference is to the old "Kool" boat. (Sold at a discount as a premium by
the cigarette maker with the green and white Kool logo on the sail.)

A bigger sail is generally more fun in my experience, as long as you remain
in sheltered waters and stay ready to loose the sheet. Too many people get
in trouble by "learning to sail" on days when it's almost calm (and even the
experts have trouble making the boat move), and then going out in a blow
where the boat acts completely different.

Roger

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
wrote in message
oups.com...

derbyrm wrote:
Careful here. The Sunfish sail was nominally 75 square feet, but
actually
measured about 90. The newer sails are about 95.

In my Sunfish, I remember one day when I literally sailed in circles
around
a couple of young women in a Snark. I heard one of them tell the other
"I
don't know what he's doing!"

Evil. Fun!


Well, I don't know the exact measurements of the stock Sunchaser I
sail. The literature says 72 square-feet. I do know that the spars on
the Sunfish sail I have are pretty close to the proper length - about
the length of the hull give or take a little. Only modification I can
see that I will have to make is to remove one of the pulleys from the
lower spar, and relocate the other pulley to the rear of the lower
spar, since the Sunchaser is rigged a bit differently from a Sunfish.
Check out www.castlecraft.com and you will see what I mean.