I build boats with tungsten
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:32:41 -0400, DSK wrote:
Kind of makes me wonder... why haven't we seen any tungsten keel bulbs
in really hi-dollar boats, like say for example the America's Cup?

===============================

It's written into the sail racing rules that you can't use any ballast
material with a density greater than lead. That rule was implemented
back in the 70s or early 80s to head off several designs that planned
to use depleted uranium as a keel material.

Open 60's do use tungsten bulbs (or at least tungsten ingots embedded into
lead bulbs because it is so hard to machine the tungsten). One of the "Pen
Duick" boats DID use U-238 in the keel.

I figure if you have a big enough Open 60 budget you just use gold. Far
more dense and you can always take it off after the race and re-sell it for
about what you paid for it. Of course if you're like most Open 60's you
would have that risk of loosing the keel or bulb :)


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

I build boats with tungsten
 

I think tungsten is good for building boats, because of it´s high
melting point it will protect my boat against underwater vulcanos and
fire-breathing sea-dragons.

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

I build boats with tungsten
 

Build it with wood.
Save the tungsten for the sawblades and router cutters.

"Carl Dau" wrote in message
m...
I think tungsten is good for building boats, because of it´s high
melting point it will protect my boat against underwater vulcanos and
fire-breathing sea-dragons.

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

I build boats with tungsten
 

Carl Dau trolls:

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

I actually started pricing up a tungsten bulb for a boat. About 9,000 lbs.
NOBODY had that much lying around, and by the time I finished calling round all
the suppliers, the price had nearly doubled. My theory was that they were all
calling each other looking for more, nad the old "supply and demand" thing
kicked in.
Believe me, we eventually built the whole boat, with conventional ballast, for
half of what the bulb would have cost.

The only way to go with shaping would have been to make sintered disks and bolt
them together. This may not be so easy for a hull, and the weight (50% MORE
than lead by volume) makes it unacceptable for most uses.

Good troll, though.... ;-P

Steve

I build boats with tungsten
 

Carl Dau trolls:
Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?



Stephen Baker wrote:
I actually started pricing up a tungsten bulb for a boat. About 9,000 lbs.
NOBODY had that much lying around, and by the time I finished calling round all
the suppliers, the price had nearly doubled. My theory was that they were all
calling each other looking for more, nad the old "supply and demand" thing
kicked in.
Believe me, we eventually built the whole boat, with conventional ballast, for
half of what the bulb would have cost.

And the tools to shape it would have added considerably to the cost.


The only way to go with shaping would have been to make sintered disks and bolt
them together. This may not be so easy for a hull, and the weight (50% MORE
than lead by volume) makes it unacceptable for most uses.

Kind of makes me wonder... why haven't we seen any tungsten keel bulbs
in really hi-dollar boats, like say for example the America's Cup? There
was one boat with a fancy keel including a mercury column, so that the
center of gravity could be raised for light air. That must have been pricey.

DSK

I build boats with tungsten
 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:32:41 -0400, DSK wrote:
Kind of makes me wonder... why haven't we seen any tungsten keel bulbs
in really hi-dollar boats, like say for example the America's Cup?

===============================

It's written into the sail racing rules that you can't use any ballast
material with a density greater than lead. That rule was implemented
back in the 70s or early 80s to head off several designs that planned
to use depleted uranium as a keel material.

No problem for cruising boats however :-) The DU is readily
available but I believe you need a permit to buy it.

I build boats with tungsten
 

Wayne.B wrote:
It's written into the sail racing rules that you can't use any ballast
material with a density greater than lead. That rule was implemented
back in the 70s or early 80s to head off several designs that planned
to use depleted uranium as a keel material.

Sure, but that's just for you & me. The big bucks guys make their own
rules. The America's Cup and the IACC pretty much use the rules they
like and ignore the rest. I suspect that given what Stephen B. said,
keel bulbs of tungsten or osmium are simply too expensive & troublesome
even for them. After all, just because you have $70 million to toss away
on a sailboat race, doesn't mean you can spend an unreasonable percent
of the budget just on the keel materials & tooling.... ;)

America3 (cubed) had an adjustable column of mercury in her keel for at
least some of the trial races, may have used it in the Cup match for all
I know (and stuff like this is not usually discussed publicly, although
the really good stuff gets to be an open secret). I bet the EPA would
not have liked it, regardles of what the IYRU thinks!

Fresh BReezes- Doug King

I build boats with tungsten
 

Many classes of boat now have it writted in the rules.. something like...
"no materials of a specific gravity greater than lead..to be used in any
part of the vessel."

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Carl Dau trolls:
Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?



Stephen Baker wrote:
I actually started pricing up a tungsten bulb for a boat. About 9,000
lbs.
NOBODY had that much lying around, and by the time I finished calling
round all
the suppliers, the price had nearly doubled. My theory was that they
were all
calling each other looking for more, nad the old "supply and demand"
thing
kicked in.
Believe me, we eventually built the whole boat, with conventional
ballast, for
half of what the bulb would have cost.

And the tools to shape it would have added considerably to the cost.


The only way to go with shaping would have been to make sintered disks
and bolt
them together. This may not be so easy for a hull, and the weight (50%
MORE
than lead by volume) makes it unacceptable for most uses.

Kind of makes me wonder... why haven't we seen any tungsten keel bulbs
in really hi-dollar boats, like say for example the America's Cup? There
was one boat with a fancy keel including a mercury column, so that the
center of gravity could be raised for light air. That must have been
pricey.

DSK

I build boats with tungsten
 

"James" freed themself from bondage, long
enough to scribble:

"no materials of a specific gravity greater than lead..to be used in any
part of the vessel."

Hmmmmmm!

Then they can't impose this literally!

I build boats with tungsten
 

Hi

"James" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Many classes of boat now have it writted in the rules.. something like...
"no materials of a specific gravity greater than lead..to be used in any
part of the vessel."

A decade ago, somone was banned using Uranium 238 in some american cup .
Wolfram is way to expensive and difficult to cast , being it's melting
temperture round some 3500 deg.C. --------- acturly this is the reson it
was used in light bulbs ,as even white glowing it will not melt.

P.C.
http://home20.inet.tele.dk/h-3d/boxes-4.jpg

I build boats with tungsten
 

"steveb" wrote in message
...
"James" freed themself from bondage,
long
enough to scribble:

"no materials of a specific gravity greater than lead..to be used in any
part of the vessel."

Hmmmmmm!

Then they can't impose this literally!

I did say "something like".. Which implies that I was quoting the Spririt
of the rule... not exact wording of each of the three paragraphs
:)

I build boats with tungsten
 

On 17 Apr 2004 22:39:49 -0700, (Carl Dau)
wrote:

I think tungsten is good for building boats, because of it´s high
melting point it will protect my boat against underwater vulcanos and
fire-breathing sea-dragons.

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

'
Yep; go with the long-life versions - such a hassle to replace a
blown hull. But you should seriously consider platinum.
This is also good for high-temperatures and looks so much better.

Brian W

I build boats with tungsten
 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:02:07 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

No problem for cruising boats however :-) The DU is readily
available but I believe you need a permit to buy it.

Just imagine the anti-fouling properties! Eventually, I mean.

R.

I build boats with tungsten
 

Actually, if you go with sail or electric power, the vessel moves much more
quietly and that prevents the waking up of the sea dragons. Which of
course, means you can use non-fireproof materials that cost less, like wood
for example.

Brian

--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


..
"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
Carl Dau trolls:

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

I actually started pricing up a tungsten bulb for a boat. About 9,000 lbs.
NOBODY had that much lying around, and by the time I finished calling
round all
the suppliers, the price had nearly doubled. My theory was that they were
all
calling each other looking for more, nad the old "supply and demand" thing
kicked in.
Believe me, we eventually built the whole boat, with conventional ballast,
for
half of what the bulb would have cost.

The only way to go with shaping would have been to make sintered disks and
bolt
them together. This may not be so easy for a hull, and the weight (50%
MORE
than lead by volume) makes it unacceptable for most uses.

Good troll, though.... ;-P

Steve

I build boats with tungsten
 

Tungsten's brittle, isn't it? Might not be so good for a keel...

Brian


--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


..
"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Carl Dau trolls:
Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?



Stephen Baker wrote:
I actually started pricing up a tungsten bulb for a boat. About 9,000
lbs.
NOBODY had that much lying around, and by the time I finished calling
round all
the suppliers, the price had nearly doubled. My theory was that they
were all
calling each other looking for more, nad the old "supply and demand"
thing
kicked in.
Believe me, we eventually built the whole boat, with conventional
ballast, for
half of what the bulb would have cost.

And the tools to shape it would have added considerably to the cost.


The only way to go with shaping would have been to make sintered disks
and bolt
them together. This may not be so easy for a hull, and the weight (50%
MORE
than lead by volume) makes it unacceptable for most uses.

Kind of makes me wonder... why haven't we seen any tungsten keel bulbs
in really hi-dollar boats, like say for example the America's Cup? There
was one boat with a fancy keel including a mercury column, so that the
center of gravity could be raised for light air. That must have been
pricey.

DSK

I build boats with tungsten
 

Carl Dau trolls:
Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

Contact the Pentagon. I'm sure they've explored tungsten-hulled,
nuclear-powered stealth yachts.

I build boats with tungsten
 

Brian Whatcott wrote in message . ..
On 17 Apr 2004 22:39:49 -0700, (Carl Dau)
wrote:

I think tungsten is good for building boats, because of it´s high
melting point it will protect my boat against underwater vulcanos and
fire-breathing sea-dragons.

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

'
Yep; go with the long-life versions - such a hassle to replace a
blown hull. But you should seriously consider platinum.
This is also good for high-temperatures and looks so much better.

Brian W

I've priced Tungsten foil before, too expensive. Tantalum is cheaper
and just as dense. I dont think a permit is required for depleted U
cuz I once had a brick of it on my desk, not impressive, just heavy.
Osmium is a possibility and the densest. Iridium would be very good
due to its non-corrosive properties.

I build boats with tungsten
 

Brian Whatcott wrote in message . ..
On 17 Apr 2004 22:39:49 -0700, (Carl Dau)
wrote:

I think tungsten is good for building boats, because of it´s high
melting point it will protect my boat against underwater vulcanos and
fire-breathing sea-dragons.

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

'
Yep; go with the long-life versions - such a hassle to replace a
blown hull. But you should seriously consider platinum.
This is also good for high-temperatures and looks so much better.

Brian W

To go with his Tungsten keel, he could use a hull made of Li, very low
density, less than water, reacts with water though. Might use
aerogel, lowest density solid. Seen some with density less than air,
only the air in the pores keeps it from floating away. Some aerogel
can be hydrophobic so would also repel fouling. I've seen carbon
aerogels, electrically conductive for lightning and ultra low mass.
SEAgel would be appropriate too, less dense than air and has tensile
strength unlike aerogel. Can also be heavily doped with metals to
repel fouling. You want weird materials, I got em.

I build boats with tungsten
 

On 18 Apr 2004 18:38:08 -0700, (Parallax)
wrote:

Brian Whatcott wrote in message . ..
On 17 Apr 2004 22:39:49 -0700, (Carl Dau)
wrote:

I think tungsten is good for building boats, because of it´s high
melting point it will protect my boat against underwater vulcanos and
fire-breathing sea-dragons.

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

'
Yep; go with the long-life versions - such a hassle to replace a
blown hull. But you should seriously consider platinum.
This is also good for high-temperatures and looks so much better.

Brian W

To go with his Tungsten keel, he could use a hull made of Li, very low
density, less than water, reacts with water though. Might use
aerogel, lowest density solid. Seen some with density less than air,
only the air in the pores keeps it from floating away. Some aerogel
can be hydrophobic so would also repel fouling. I've seen carbon
aerogels, electrically conductive for lightning and ultra low mass.
SEAgel would be appropriate too, less dense than air and has tensile
strength unlike aerogel. Can also be heavily doped with metals to
repel fouling. You want weird materials, I got em.

I hear that NASA PR had to back-track on that "lighter-than-air"
aerogel claim though. Just very, very light.

You heard the story about an investment banker being asked to put up
for a novel S American hardwood logging scheme to float 'em down
river, and catch them at a barrier for the sawmill.
He asked, "Does this hardwood actually float?"

- It turned out: it doesn't!

Brian W

I build boats with tungsten
 

Brian Whatcott wrote in message . ..
On 18 Apr 2004 18:38:08 -0700, (Parallax)
wrote:

Brian Whatcott wrote in message . ..
On 17 Apr 2004 22:39:49 -0700, (Carl Dau)
wrote:

I think tungsten is good for building boats, because of it´s high
melting point it will protect my boat against underwater vulcanos and
fire-breathing sea-dragons.

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?

'
Yep; go with the long-life versions - such a hassle to replace a
blown hull. But you should seriously consider platinum.
This is also good for high-temperatures and looks so much better.

Brian W

To go with his Tungsten keel, he could use a hull made of Li, very low
density, less than water, reacts with water though. Might use
aerogel, lowest density solid. Seen some with density less than air,
only the air in the pores keeps it from floating away. Some aerogel
can be hydrophobic so would also repel fouling. I've seen carbon
aerogels, electrically conductive for lightning and ultra low mass.
SEAgel would be appropriate too, less dense than air and has tensile
strength unlike aerogel. Can also be heavily doped with metals to
repel fouling. You want weird materials, I got em.

I hear that NASA PR had to back-track on that "lighter-than-air"
aerogel claim though. Just very, very light.

You heard the story about an investment banker being asked to put up
for a novel S American hardwood logging scheme to float 'em down
river, and catch them at a barrier for the sawmill.
He asked, "Does this hardwood actually float?"

- It turned out: it doesn't!

Brian W

Around here, harvesting hundred year old sunken logs from river
bottoms is a real business. For some reason, some of the trees that
were cut and floated sank and the subsequent aging makes them
valeuable. One example is so called "Peque or Pekie not sure of
spelling" Cypress that has holes like Swiss cheese from boring worms
from being the water. Some guys doing this found a 120 yr old
locomotive that had fallen off a trestle and sunk. It wasnt in too
bad condition when it was recovered and put on display.

I build boats with tungsten
 

Actually tungsten boats are quite common , they are used in vacuum systems
for melting chemicals!!!!
"Carl Dau" wrote in message
m...
I think tungsten is good for building boats, because of it´s high
melting point it will protect my boat against underwater vulcanos and
fire-breathing sea-dragons.

Anyone experienced with tungsten-boats?




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Need to move 1000lbs of DU. Any takers?