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88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
Well I have an 8 horse Rude, 1988, pull start, great condition, maybe
75 hours on it. Had a problem today, had to keep squeezing the ball until it leaked to keep it running, but it really did not work. As soon as I try to idle or now push the choke full off, it seems to run out of fuel. I cleaned the carb, from outside, and put in new plugs, made adjustments, still the same. I have to pull the choke a little to start it, then is searches for idle,levels off, then eventually sputters to a stop. Good compression, good spark, timing sounds on, etc... Just runs out or fuel I think, or the float is stuck, down? I choke it, pump the ball, and she will run at partial choke and high idle setting, but as soon as you push the choke in that last 1/8 inch, or put it to idle, it slows to a stop, wants to stay running, just won't. So here is my quesion. Can someone tell me how the fuel delivery system works with this external tank and hand pump ball to squeeze. Is there a fuel pump on the engine, how does it work, diaphram, venturi??? Anyway, the choke lever goes into a fixture with a couple of lines to the carb, and a electrical lead, could this unit just be clogged, is it a usual task to clean it? I have cleaned the valve on the side of the engine that seems to direct the fuel from the tank. Anyway, long day, hope this makes sence, where would you start, and of course if you are on the CT shoreline and want to come by ;) I'll take you fishin' when we get it runnin', Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
I had this problem and it was the fuel pump, a very easy repair. I also
replaced the spark plug wires at the same time and all was well. |
88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
And maybe the ball at the tank - engine line, had that happen with the same
symptoms too.................... |
88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
I suggest the fault is the tank, not the motor. The tank is leaking air. The
squeeze ball charges the tank. The overpressure tank then feeds fuel to the carb. Check your seals, gaskets, hose and hose fittings. Steve "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... Well I have an 8 horse Rude, 1988, pull start, great condition, maybe 75 hours on it. Had a problem today, had to keep squeezing the ball until it leaked to keep it running, but it really did not work. As soon as I try to idle or now push the choke full off, it seems to run out of fuel. I cleaned the carb, from outside, and put in new plugs, made adjustments, still the same. I have to pull the choke a little to start it, then is searches for idle,levels off, then eventually sputters to a stop. Good compression, good spark, timing sounds on, etc... Just runs out or fuel I think, or the float is stuck, down? I choke it, pump the ball, and she will run at partial choke and high idle setting, but as soon as you push the choke in that last 1/8 inch, or put it to idle, it slows to a stop, wants to stay running, just won't. So here is my quesion. Can someone tell me how the fuel delivery system works with this external tank and hand pump ball to squeeze. Is there a fuel pump on the engine, how does it work, diaphram, venturi??? Anyway, the choke lever goes into a fixture with a couple of lines to the carb, and a electrical lead, could this unit just be clogged, is it a usual task to clean it? I have cleaned the valve on the side of the engine that seems to direct the fuel from the tank. Anyway, long day, hope this makes sence, where would you start, and of course if you are on the CT shoreline and want to come by ;) I'll take you fishin' when we get it runnin', Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
Scotty,
I think the problem is the *OPPOSITE* of the one suggested by Steve. Unless there is something special about this motor, that makes it operate entirely different from the typical, the 'Priming Bulb' *does NOT* pressurize the tank. The system works on a gravity/siphon principle. Once the engine is running, the only 'vacuum' created is in the carburetor 'bowl'. On the CAP of the remote fuel tank, there maybe a small knurled knob. You have to turn it to open a very small hole to allow EQUALIZING air to enter as the fuel is drawn out. {On some tanks the cap comes to a 'wedge' shape . . . there is a tiny hole, for a one-way internal valve}. You may already know about this knob, but the valve may have become clogged, or stuck. That is the SIMPLEST problem & solution. There may be a small leak in the line or bulb {you mentioned that . . .}. It may be so small it only leaks under pressure - internal or *external*. Anything in that part of the 'delivery system' that 'breaks the vacuum' BEFORE the fuel gets to the carburetor, won't allow the 'siphon' to work. What the engine has to run on, is only the fuel in the 'bowl'. {I run my small 6hp Evinrude {1992}'dry' at the end of the day by disconnecting the fuel line . . . it is very surprising how lone it runs on that small amount of gas} While you are at it, I would change the fuel filter. Any more questions, just give me a shout . . . I know we've talked before. If I was closer, I would come over and help you, myself. Regards & Good Luck, Ron Magen Backyard Boatshop "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... Well I have an 8 horse Rude, 1988, pull start, great condition, maybe 75 hours on it. Had a problem today, had to keep squeezing the ball until it leaked to keep it running, but it really did not work. As soon as I try to idle or now push the choke full off, it seems to run out of fuel. I cleaned the carb, from outside, and put in new plugs, made adjustments, still the same. I have to pull the choke a little to start it, then is searches for idle,levels off, then eventually sputters to a stop. Good compression, good spark, timing sounds on, etc... Just runs out or fuel I think, or the float is stuck, down? I choke it, pump the ball, and she will run at partial choke and high idle setting, but as soon as you push the choke in that last 1/8 inch, or put it to idle, it slows to a stop, wants to stay running, just won't. So here is my quesion. Can someone tell me how the fuel delivery system works with this external tank and hand pump ball to squeeze. Is there a fuel pump on the engine, how does it work, diaphram, venturi??? Anyway, the choke lever goes into a fixture with a couple of lines to the carb, and a electrical lead, could this unit just be clogged, is it a usual task to clean it? I have cleaned the valve on the side of the engine that seems to direct the fuel from the tank. Anyway, long day, hope this makes sence, where would you start, and of course if you are on the CT shoreline and want to come by ;) I'll take you fishin' when we get it runnin', Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ...
I suggest the fault is the tank, not the motor. The tank is leaking air. The squeeze ball charges the tank. The overpressure tank then feeds fuel to the carb. Check your seals, gaskets, hose and hose fittings. Steve This confuses me. I have always kept the air valve open on top of the fill cap for the tank, the pressure is equal to that outside the tank. The ball has checks in which allow me to build up some kind of pressure in the engine, I have always assumed that once the engine starts, it somehow draws fuel from the tank, in line with the check valves. This could only happen if the engine were somehow sucking fuel from the tank. In fact when I leave the fill cap vent closed, it sucks the tank down (red plastic portable tank). Anyway, I have had a better look this morning and I see that the valve I refered to below does not have an electrical lead, it is more likely a vacume lead, maybe some kind of vacume actuated idle control (idle air bypass)? The choke knob feed directly into this unit which also has two fuel lines running to the carb, one low, one high, could this also control idle fuel? Anyway, to the fuel pump, can someone explain how it works on this engine, that will help me to find it! Is it vacume, or mechanical, in the meantime I will be looking today in better light, thanks again, Scotty, Keep em' coming... "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... Well I have an 8 horse Rude, 1988, pull start, great condition, maybe 75 hours on it. Had a problem today, had to keep squeezing the ball until it leaked to keep it running, but it really did not work. As soon as I try to idle or now push the choke full off, it seems to run out of fuel. I cleaned the carb, from outside, and put in new plugs, made adjustments, still the same. I have to pull the choke a little to start it, then is searches for idle,levels off, then eventually sputters to a stop. Good compression, good spark, timing sounds on, etc... Just runs out or fuel I think, or the float is stuck, down? I choke it, pump the ball, and she will run at partial choke and high idle setting, but as soon as you push the choke in that last 1/8 inch, or put it to idle, it slows to a stop, wants to stay running, just won't. So here is my quesion. Can someone tell me how the fuel delivery system works with this external tank and hand pump ball to squeeze. Is there a fuel pump on the engine, how does it work, diaphram, venturi??? Anyway, the choke lever goes into a fixture with a couple of lines to the carb, and a electrical lead, could this unit just be clogged, is it a usual task to clean it? I have cleaned the valve on the side of the engine that seems to direct the fuel from the tank. Anyway, long day, hope this makes sence, where would you start, and of course if you are on the CT shoreline and want to come by ;) I'll take you fishin' when we get it runnin', Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
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88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
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88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
(Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com...
(Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com... (Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com... "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... I suggest the fault is the tank, not the motor. The tank is leaking air. The squeeze ball charges the tank. The overpressure tank then feeds fuel to the carb. Check your seals, gaskets, hose and hose fittings. Steve This confuses me. I have always kept the air valve open on top of the fill cap for the tank, the pressure is equal to that outside the tank. The ball has checks in which allow me to build up some kind of pressure in the engine, I have always assumed that once the engine starts, it somehow draws fuel from the tank, in line with the check valves. This could only happen if the engine were somehow sucking fuel from the tank. In fact when I leave the fill cap vent closed, it sucks the tank down (red plastic portable tank). Anyway, I have had a better look this morning and I see that the valve I refered to below does not have an electrical lead, it is more likely a vacume lead, maybe some kind of vacume actuated idle control (idle air bypass)? The choke knob feed directly into this unit which also has two fuel lines running to the carb, one low, one high, could this also control idle fuel? Anyway, to the fuel pump, can someone explain how it works on this engine, that will help me to find it! Is it vacume, or mechanical, in the meantime I will be looking today in better light, thanks again, Scotty, Keep em' coming... Nevermind... I found the fuel pump. It's that thing with springs, valves, and diaphrams that sproings apart when you remove the wrong two screws;) Everyone carries this pump, well except this year, called 7 dealers, all out of stock till the end of vacation week, ****. Anyway, looking at the pump it seems pretty simple, there is an airway that I imagine leads to the intake, so I guess the diaphram is run by fluctuations in the intake vacume, makes perfect sense to me. Anyway, hopefully this is indeed the problem, I can't see anything else right off hand that would create a fuel or vacume leak anywhere else on the engine. Now off to see why the heck the one year old water pump on the 3 horse merc stopped working... I hate this stuff, I just want to build boats and go fishin'. Scotty Well, anyone? Am I right about the intake pressure fluctuations driving the pump? Looks like it. There is a flame arrest plate in front of the diapharam, this pretty much confirms my suspicions especially since it was clean, no backfires. I know they would not drive the fuel pump with exaust. Anyway, I get the pump on friday, I will let you know. Well, it did not work, the fuel pump and plug wires too, cause it makes sense since I had new plugs and all. Anyway, I am thinking it is carb now after setting all the other perams'. Anyway, I will keep you posted even more... Building a big skiff now, I will post some pics soon. Scotty |
88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
Backyard Renegade wrote:
(Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com... (Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com... (Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com... "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... I suggest the fault is the tank, not the motor. The tank is leaking air. The squeeze ball charges the tank. The overpressure tank then feeds fuel to the carb. Check your seals, gaskets, hose and hose fittings. Steve This confuses me. I have always kept the air valve open on top of the fill cap for the tank, the pressure is equal to that outside the tank. The ball has checks in which allow me to build up some kind of pressure in the engine, I have always assumed that once the engine starts, it somehow draws fuel from the tank, in line with the check valves. This could only happen if the engine were somehow sucking fuel from the tank. In fact when I leave the fill cap vent closed, it sucks the tank down (red plastic portable tank). Anyway, I have had a better look this morning and I see that the valve I refered to below does not have an electrical lead, it is more likely a vacume lead, maybe some kind of vacume actuated idle control (idle air bypass)? The choke knob feed directly into this unit which also has two fuel lines running to the carb, one low, one high, could this also control idle fuel? Anyway, to the fuel pump, can someone explain how it works on this engine, that will help me to find it! Is it vacume, or mechanical, in the meantime I will be looking today in better light, thanks again, Scotty, Keep em' coming... Nevermind... I found the fuel pump. It's that thing with springs, valves, and diaphrams that sproings apart when you remove the wrong two screws;) Everyone carries this pump, well except this year, called 7 dealers, all out of stock till the end of vacation week, ****. Anyway, looking at the pump it seems pretty simple, there is an airway that I imagine leads to the intake, so I guess the diaphram is run by fluctuations in the intake vacume, makes perfect sense to me. Anyway, hopefully this is indeed the problem, I can't see anything else right off hand that would create a fuel or vacume leak anywhere else on the engine. Now off to see why the heck the one year old water pump on the 3 horse merc stopped working... I hate this stuff, I just want to build boats and go fishin'. Scotty Well, anyone? Am I right about the intake pressure fluctuations driving the pump? Looks like it. There is a flame arrest plate in front of the diapharam, this pretty much confirms my suspicions especially since it was clean, no backfires. I know they would not drive the fuel pump with exaust. Anyway, I get the pump on friday, I will let you know. Well, it did not work, the fuel pump and plug wires too, cause it makes sense since I had new plugs and all. Anyway, I am thinking it is carb now after setting all the other perams'. Anyway, I will keep you posted even more... Building a big skiff now, I will post some pics soon. Scotty 95% chance you have a blocked low speed jet. Has it got a idle mixture adjustment knob? (dont know that age engine) If so follow the linkage to the needle,(rod with a point and a screw thread and usually a splined butt end sticking out), pop the linkage off. Mark the current needle position (scribe a line on it and the carb body) and unscrew the needle out the carb body completely *counting turns* (best to count till some identifiable feature on the shaft comes flush with the end of the hole) *dont* loose any O rings or seals. Sqirt spray carb cleaner down the hole, let it sit a little, repeat untill the fumes get to you or you *know* its clean. *DO NOT* attempt to clean the jet with anything harder than a stiff nylon bristle extracted from a brush. Replace needle counting turns. Try it. If not reasonable, try backing the needle out 1/2 - 1 1/2 turns in 1/8 turn steps. (the jet may *still* be pasrtially blocked). Reinstall linkage in its mid range poisition. Go boating. P.S. The fuel pump diaphrams are driven from crankcase pressure ports off two different cylenders. One works the main diaphram in and out. the other is on a resovoir chamber that pushes fuel to the carb while the main daphram is sucking a fresh gulp of fuel. Also possible is a one port pump that aint so fancy. There is a spec for the height the engine has to be able to lift the fuel. Its in the service manual. If the pump is bad, it will not lift fuel reliably at idle. Once you got it going, test it in a tank with the fuel can on the ground. Should idle the same as when the bottom of the can is level with the top of the engine. Also check for air leaks where the carb mounts to the block. Spray WD40 through the straw that comes with the can round the gasket with the engine running as slow as you can and see if the revs pick up any. If so you got a leak. Got our club Johnson seahorse 20 1973 engine to do the waterpump on tommorrow. Parts just in. Just had the 18 month old mariner dealer serviced and they found a fouled carb. Same gas for both so now I *know* I need a carb kit for the johnson. Probably need new reeds as well and I allready know the points are out of spec. Oh well, makes a break from rubbing down Stingo. -- Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* SPAM TRAP set in header, Use email address in sig. if you must. 'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Uffa Fox designed, All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy circa. 1961 |
88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
How big?
Brian -- http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three Resins products .. "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... (Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com... (Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com... (Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com... "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... I suggest the fault is the tank, not the motor. The tank is leaking air. The squeeze ball charges the tank. The overpressure tank then feeds fuel to the carb. Check your seals, gaskets, hose and hose fittings. Steve This confuses me. I have always kept the air valve open on top of the fill cap for the tank, the pressure is equal to that outside the tank. The ball has checks in which allow me to build up some kind of pressure in the engine, I have always assumed that once the engine starts, it somehow draws fuel from the tank, in line with the check valves. This could only happen if the engine were somehow sucking fuel from the tank. In fact when I leave the fill cap vent closed, it sucks the tank down (red plastic portable tank). Anyway, I have had a better look this morning and I see that the valve I refered to below does not have an electrical lead, it is more likely a vacume lead, maybe some kind of vacume actuated idle control (idle air bypass)? The choke knob feed directly into this unit which also has two fuel lines running to the carb, one low, one high, could this also control idle fuel? Anyway, to the fuel pump, can someone explain how it works on this engine, that will help me to find it! Is it vacume, or mechanical, in the meantime I will be looking today in better light, thanks again, Scotty, Keep em' coming... Nevermind... I found the fuel pump. It's that thing with springs, valves, and diaphrams that sproings apart when you remove the wrong two screws;) Everyone carries this pump, well except this year, called 7 dealers, all out of stock till the end of vacation week, ****. Anyway, looking at the pump it seems pretty simple, there is an airway that I imagine leads to the intake, so I guess the diaphram is run by fluctuations in the intake vacume, makes perfect sense to me. Anyway, hopefully this is indeed the problem, I can't see anything else right off hand that would create a fuel or vacume leak anywhere else on the engine. Now off to see why the heck the one year old water pump on the 3 horse merc stopped working... I hate this stuff, I just want to build boats and go fishin'. Scotty Well, anyone? Am I right about the intake pressure fluctuations driving the pump? Looks like it. There is a flame arrest plate in front of the diapharam, this pretty much confirms my suspicions especially since it was clean, no backfires. I know they would not drive the fuel pump with exaust. Anyway, I get the pump on friday, I will let you know. Well, it did not work, the fuel pump and plug wires too, cause it makes sense since I had new plugs and all. Anyway, I am thinking it is carb now after setting all the other perams'. Anyway, I will keep you posted even more... Building a big skiff now, I will post some pics soon. Scotty |
88 Evenrude, won't stay running?
Hi Ian, the jets are where I am going next, but I did a lot of
cleaning from outside the carb with the needle and such, but I fear I must take it apart and get at the innards. Brian, it is a real Brockway, 16 foot by 7 foot pointy skiff. I will make another thread about it soon. Scotty (Who is one of only two who actually have permission from living Brockways' to sell boats called "Brockways")... To any of you guys down the middle east coast using the name, you should see the family first as I have done. Specially the ones advertizing in the magazines, if not to pay royalties, at least out of respect. But that is still another thread too... Scotty |
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