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making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
Well its time to make my rudder, for a tiller steered 34 foot Van de
Stadt. Now Van de Stadt have given me a nice drawing showing three types of construction: wood strips with a gap of around 1 3/4" between the strips, filled with polyurethane foam, and covered with a plywood skin. Solid plywood panels glued together and shaped foam with a epoxy and glass fibre skin. any of the above seems ok (apart from perhaps the plywood one may be a bit heavy?) but is it possible ( perhaps the stupid question) to make a rudder the salme way as my hull ie; western red cedar strips laminated with a fibreglass and epoxy skin? Its seems pretty tough now my hull is made and for me it may be easier to make and fit on my rudder stock. It seems to me it would be at least as strong as a foam rudder, and almost as light. BTW, the first construction method doesn't make the rudder shaft manufactureres (Jefa) squeal with joy. |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
Pete,
I noticed a distinct dearth of replies to your question. Of the more than a few rudders and have never made a strip planked one. There is no reason why you could not, but there are some considerations that you should think through. A rudder must contain structure to secure it to the shank/shaft with complete confidence as anything less will be a serious problem at some inopportune point. Most rudders live their entire lives submerged (and you are thinking - so does the hull), but unlike the hull they have a required breach where the shank enters the structure and/or is fastened. Treating this breach like a through-hull fitting is not applicable as there will be forces and loads present that are much different than a static fitting. With any possible breach, the core (be it wood or foam) will absorb water. So, If you have a plan that can make it work, go for it. That fact that it hasn’t been dome before is not a reason. By the by - a foam rudder as you are calling it gets little or none of its strength from the foam. The foam is just there to a: either be a form for the laminate to build on or b: something to keep the rudder from completely filling with water. Best of Luck Matt Colie a Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor pete wrote: Well its time to make my rudder, for a tiller steered 34 foot Van de Stadt. Now Van de Stadt have given me a nice drawing showing three types of construction: wood strips with a gap of around 1 3/4" between the strips, filled with polyurethane foam, and covered with a plywood skin. Solid plywood panels glued together and shaped foam with a epoxy and glass fibre skin. any of the above seems ok (apart from perhaps the plywood one may be a bit heavy?) but is it possible ( perhaps the stupid question) to make a rudder the salme way as my hull ie; western red cedar strips laminated with a fibreglass and epoxy skin? Its seems pretty tough now my hull is made and for me it may be easier to make and fit on my rudder stock. It seems to me it would be at least as strong as a foam rudder, and almost as light. BTW, the first construction method doesn't make the rudder shaft manufactureres (Jefa) squeal with joy. |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
Since no one else is jumping in, I'll offer my opinion.
The rudder should not float. The solid plywood panels are a technique I understand, and with some lead or ??? will be at least neutral. The critical thing is the rudder shape (air foil). Trying to steer when the rudder head twists with respect to the rest of the blade is BAD! (been there, done that) Roger http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm "pete" wrote in message ... Well its time to make my rudder, for a tiller steered 34 foot Van de Stadt. Now Van de Stadt have given me a nice drawing showing three types of construction: wood strips with a gap of around 1 3/4" between the strips, filled with polyurethane foam, and covered with a plywood skin. Solid plywood panels glued together and shaped foam with a epoxy and glass fibre skin. any of the above seems ok (apart from perhaps the plywood one may be a bit heavy?) but is it possible ( perhaps the stupid question) to make a rudder the salme way as my hull ie; western red cedar strips laminated with a fibreglass and epoxy skin? Its seems pretty tough now my hull is made and for me it may be easier to make and fit on my rudder stock. It seems to me it would be at least as strong as a foam rudder, and almost as light. BTW, the first construction method doesn't make the rudder shaft manufactureres (Jefa) squeal with joy. |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 01:17:53 +0000, derbyrm wrote:
Since no one else is jumping in, I'll offer my opinion. The rudder should not float. Why not? My rudder do definitely float and have worked just fine for 19 seasons. If I had the time I would make new pair out of carbon - even lighter. /Martin |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
Because you'll have to add more lead below the waterline to keep the weedy
side of the boat down? Because it will tend to lift off the pintles which have to take the weight when the boats hauled? (reversing loads are worse than unidirectional loads) Why would you want to make it lighter? In real life it probably doesn't matter much, but then that's the basis for any heated discussion. Roger http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm "Martin Schöön" wrote in message ... On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 01:17:53 +0000, derbyrm wrote: Since no one else is jumping in, I'll offer my opinion. The rudder should not float. Why not? My rudder do definitely float and have worked just fine for 19 seasons. If I had the time I would make new pair out of carbon - even lighter. /Martin |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
If you have a raked rudderpost as on my old Wharram cat. a bouyant rudder
blade causes the rudder to float up towards one side or the other, not a big problem in normal conditions, but in very light wind it could make things difficult for the selfsteering, also caused an annoying rattling noise, mainly noticeable at anchor- especially in a bit of a chop. "derbyrm" skrev i en meddelelse news:a_6_f.886669$x96.292143@attbi_s72... Because you'll have to add more lead below the waterline to keep the weedy side of the boat down? |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:20:23 +0000, derbyrm wrote:
Because you'll have to add more lead below the waterline to keep the weedy side of the boat down? In theory maybe and only for a lead-swinger. But if you play around a little with numbers I bet you will find the rudder must be a monster to make a useful contribution to righting moment. Because it will tend to lift off the pintles which have to take the weight when the boats hauled? (reversing loads are worse than unidirectional loads) Again, a monster of a rudder, in terms of volume this time, is needed make this a *real* problem. Why would you want to make it lighter? Because it is possible. Because less weight in the ends means less pitching. Because lighter is faster. Because it is a hobby of mine to tinker with my boat. http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/ In real life it probably doesn't matter much, but then that's the basis for any heated discussion. :-) /Martin |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
"Martin Schöön" wrote in message
... On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:20:23 +0000, derbyrm wrote: Because you'll have to add more lead below the waterline to keep the weedy side of the boat down? In theory maybe and only for a lead-swinger. But if you play around a little with numbers I bet you will find the rudder must be a monster to make a useful contribution to righting moment. Because it will tend to lift off the pintles which have to take the weight when the boats hauled? (reversing loads are worse than unidirectional loads) Again, a monster of a rudder, in terms of volume this time, is needed make this a *real* problem. Actually, I'm picturing a boat at anchor in a chop (as someone mentioned) with the rudder banging up and down as the water comes and goes. Noise is BAD. Why would you want to make it lighter? Because it is possible. Because less weight in the ends means less pitching. Is this that monster rudder we aren't talking about? Where do you stow your anchor and chain? Because lighter is faster. In light airs. In a chop, weight keeps you going. Sail planes carry water ballest for better speed and range. Because it is a hobby of mine to tinker with my boat. http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/ In real life it probably doesn't matter much, but then that's the basis for any heated discussion. :-) /Martin I'm planning on adding lead ballast to my rudder stock to keep the assembly firmly on the pintle. (After I trim the bottom half inch of the stock off). Roger http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:16:26 +0200, pete wrote:
Well its time to make my rudder, for a tiller steered 34 foot Van de Stadt. Now Van de Stadt have given me a nice drawing showing three types of construction: wood strips with a gap of around 1 3/4" between the strips, filled with polyurethane foam, and covered with a plywood skin. Solid plywood panels glued together and shaped foam with a epoxy and glass fibre skin. any of the above seems ok (apart from perhaps the plywood one may be a bit heavy?) but is it possible ( perhaps the stupid question) to make a rudder the salme way as my hull ie; western red cedar strips laminated with a fibreglass and epoxy skin? Its seems pretty tough now my hull is made and for me it may be easier to make and fit on my rudder stock. It seems to me it would be at least as strong as a foam rudder, and almost as light. BTW, the first construction method doesn't make the rudder shaft manufactureres (Jefa) squeal with joy. wow, obviously it was a stupid question. Never mind, I sussed it out for myself cheers |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
derbyrm wrote:
I'm planning on adding lead ballast to my rudder stock to keep the assembly firmly on the pintle. (After I trim the bottom half inch of the stock off). "The only vehicle that benefits from added weight is a steamroller" -Uffa Fox You should consider a latch to hold the rudder on it's pintles. There are a number of quite simple & effective ones available off the shelf. Making it heavier will increase loads on the pintles & gudgeons, on the transom, will change the balance of the boat & make it pitch more, and if the boat is ever in enough motion or at such an attitude that the weight is no longer pulling straight down, you have lost all benefit and kept the negatives. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:16:26 +0200, pete wrote:
Well its time to make my rudder, for a tiller steered 34 foot Van de Stadt. Now Van de Stadt have given me a nice drawing showing three types of construction: wood strips with a gap of around 1 3/4" between the strips, filled with polyurethane foam, and covered with a plywood skin. Solid plywood panels glued together and shaped foam with a epoxy and glass fibre skin. any of the above seems ok (apart from perhaps the plywood one may be a bit heavy?) but is it possible ( perhaps the stupid question) to make a rudder the salme way as my hull ie; western red cedar strips laminated with a fibreglass and epoxy skin? Its seems pretty tough now my hull is made and for me it may be easier to make and fit on my rudder stock. It seems to me it would be at least as strong as a foam rudder, and almost as light. BTW, the first construction method doesn't make the rudder shaft manufactureres (Jefa) squeal with joy. Thanks for the input folks. The weight / floatability bit isn't relevant for me as the rudders is not hung on pintles, rather goes through the hull on bearings. So it won't ride up. Since posting this I have found that the rudder gets its strength from the spokes welded to the rudder shaft, and the manufacturers of the shaft explained to me how to fit a foam core around the spokes and cover it with epoxy and glass. I quite fancied the idea of a cedar rudder, but in the end foam is easier Point taken about sealing the ends. I had a boat with a hollow fibreglass rudder once and when I took it off for servicing the bearings,, I found half a gallon of watere sloshing around inside Pete |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
Well, maybe, but we're talking about adding a couple of pounds to a 1500
pound boat. The "pintle" is not the ordinary rowboat stern device, and there's no place for a latch. For pitching moment, I'm a lot more concerned with the chain portion of the anchor rode which will be stowed in the very bow. Mr. Fox seems to disagree with Phillip C. Bolger. In "Thirty Odd Boats" PCB, commenting on Herreshoff's Rosinante suggests that "half the weight in that 3000 lb. keel is to give the boat momentum." Roger http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm "DSK" wrote in message ... derbyrm wrote: I'm planning on adding lead ballast to my rudder stock to keep the assembly firmly on the pintle. (After I trim the bottom half inch of the stock off). "The only vehicle that benefits from added weight is a steamroller" -Uffa Fox You should consider a latch to hold the rudder on it's pintles. There are a number of quite simple & effective ones available off the shelf. Making it heavier will increase loads on the pintles & gudgeons, on the transom, will change the balance of the boat & make it pitch more, and if the boat is ever in enough motion or at such an attitude that the weight is no longer pulling straight down, you have lost all benefit and kept the negatives. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
derbyrm wrote:
Well, maybe, but we're talking about adding a couple of pounds to a 1500 pound boat. The "pintle" is not the ordinary rowboat stern device, and there's no place for a latch. If there's no place on the stern for a latch, that suggests that there's no stern. This idea might work and also look salty, a short rope strop tensioned (slightly) upward from the stern to a cleat on the rudder cheek. For pitching moment, I'm a lot more concerned with the chain portion of the anchor rode which will be stowed in the very bow. Also a bad idea IMHO. Why not stow it amidships? Why carry so much chain in the first place? Because it's manly? Mr. Fox seems to disagree with Phillip C. Bolger. In "Thirty Odd Boats" PCB, commenting on Herreshoff's Rosinante suggests that "half the weight in that 3000 lb. keel is to give the boat momentum." If we could get the two together, I'm sure it would be an interesting discussion. In any case, the weight fo the Rozinante keel is really there for righting moment. Momentum may be a benefit in some situations, a detriment in others. If the same righting moment could be had with less weight (all else being equal), you can be assured that a designer of L.F. Herreshoff's caliber (or Bolger's, he's certainly no slouch) would jump on it. DSK |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
You can check out the bottom most pictures at
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/Chebacco.html to see what I'm dealing with. I guess I could put a collar on the rudder shaft below the cross piece, but it adds complexity while my solution is simpler. I replaced the specified SS tube with PVC and want to get back toward the designed weight. That should be $$ based on my shopping for a three foot length of 2" 316 Stainless, PCB's recommendation. Even a short (20 to 30 foot) length of chain adds a lot of weight. It's there to increase holding power at limited scope and to limit the ground debris' damage to the rode. The real cruisers, manly and womanly, favor all chain rode. Stowage amidships has been done, but it's a really difficult thing to do well. Put it amidships and you've diced the cabin with the hawse tube. Put it to one side and, over time, one of your legs gets shorter. Roger http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm "DSK" wrote in message ... derbyrm wrote: Well, maybe, but we're talking about adding a couple of pounds to a 1500 pound boat. The "pintle" is not the ordinary rowboat stern device, and there's no place for a latch. If there's no place on the stern for a latch, that suggests that there's no stern. This idea might work and also look salty, a short rope strop tensioned (slightly) upward from the stern to a cleat on the rudder cheek. For pitching moment, I'm a lot more concerned with the chain portion of the anchor rode which will be stowed in the very bow. Also a bad idea IMHO. Why not stow it amidships? Why carry so much chain in the first place? Because it's manly? Mr. Fox seems to disagree with Phillip C. Bolger. In "Thirty Odd Boats" PCB, commenting on Herreshoff's Rosinante suggests that "half the weight in that 3000 lb. keel is to give the boat momentum." If we could get the two together, I'm sure it would be an interesting discussion. In any case, the weight fo the Rozinante keel is really there for righting moment. Momentum may be a benefit in some situations, a detriment in others. If the same righting moment could be had with less weight (all else being equal), you can be assured that a designer of L.F. Herreshoff's caliber (or Bolger's, he's certainly no slouch) would jump on it. DSK |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 22:03:32 +0000, derbyrm wrote:
"Martin Schöön" wrote in message ... On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:20:23 +0000, derbyrm wrote: Because you'll have to add more lead below the waterline to keep the weedy side of the boat down? snip Actually, I'm picturing a boat at anchor in a chop (as someone mentioned) with the rudder banging up and down as the water comes and goes. Noise is BAD. Only of the rudder *just* floats or the pitching is really bad but then even a heavy rudder would jump on its pintles. Why would you want to make it lighter? Because it is possible. Because less weight in the ends means less pitching. Is this that monster rudder we aren't talking about? Where do you stow your anchor and chain? Alu anchor here. It is actually lighter than one of my rudder blades if memory serves. Both anchor and 5 m of chain are in in a forward locker (ca. 2 m from bow) though :-( Because lighter is faster. In light airs. In a chop, weight keeps you going. Sail planes carry water ballest for better speed and range. My boat is not a sail plane is your? Sure, in some combinations of wind and waves I might go faster if heavier - maybe once every three years. /Martin |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
derbyrm wrote:
You can check out the bottom most pictures at http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/Chebacco.html Thanks, I have looked. I've always liked the Chebacco design and yours looks like it's turning out beautifully. FWIW another of my favorites is Black Skimmer. I used to know a Lightning sailor who had one of these as his cruising boat. ... I guess I could put a collar on the rudder shaft below the cross piece, but it adds complexity while my solution is simpler. It's not simpler if it doesn't work as well under varying circumstances. Even a short (20 to 30 foot) length of chain adds a lot of weight. True. That doesn't mean you need to carry it right at the bow. .... It's there to increase holding power at limited scope and to limit the ground debris' damage to the rode. True. ... The real cruisers, manly and womanly, favor all chain rode. That depends on whom you consider a "real cruiser." There are places where more chain is certainly desirable but many others where it's just a heavy PITA. In a small boat like a Chebacco you would do well to avoid heavy macho "solutions" and try to keep things light & practical. I have used all-chain rode in places like the Bahamas and some parts of New England, but for most of the U.S. east coast, it's overkill. Many a "real cruiser" seems to like all-chain for bragging rights about the hairy-assedness of his or her ground tackle (shrug). Improperly set, or using the wrong anchor, will drag just as readily with all-chain as with short heavy chain & line. OTOH I've anchored securely many a night (including some pretty heavy weather) with rodes of mostly rope. Stowage amidships has been done, but it's a really difficult thing to do well. True. .... Put it amidships and you've diced the cabin with the hawse tube. Put it to one side and, over time, one of your legs gets shorter. In small boats, I've had pretty good luck storing the anchor either under the well deck or at the forward end of one of the cockpit lockers, and leading the rode around the outside to the bow chock. When you want to anchor, just pull up a little further to windward of your spot to allow for the extra 20 or so feet of rode you just dropped. That also eliminates the ugly marks from dragging the chain across the boat. This also makes it much easier to anchor by the stern, which can be very nice (we used to do it all the time when pulling up a beach, which you can easily do with a boat like this). Of course many a "real cruiser" would never consider either option above. Oh well, their loss IMHO. And I don't like crowds anyway! Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:57:51 +0000, derbyrm wrote:
Mr. Fox seems to disagree with Phillip C. Bolger. In "Thirty Odd Boats" PCB, commenting on Herreshoff's Rosinante suggests that "half the weight in that 3000 lb. keel is to give the boat momentum." Recommended reading: Chapter XVIII "The Sailing Machine" in "The Common Sense of Yacht Design" by L. Francis Herreshoff. (volume II) /Martin |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
"DSK" wrote in message
... derbyrm wrote: Even a short (20 to 30 foot) length of chain adds a lot of weight. True. That doesn't mean you need to carry it right at the bow. But that's where the self draining storage compartment is shown by the designer. That depends on whom you consider a "real cruiser." There are places where more chain is certainly desirable but many others where it's just a heavy PITA. In a small boat like a Chebacco you would do well to avoid heavy macho "solutions" and try to keep things light & practical. I have used all-chain rode in places like the Bahamas and some parts of New England, but for most of the U.S. east coast, it's overkill. Many a "real cruiser" seems to like all-chain for bragging rights about the hairy-assedness of his or her ground tackle (shrug). Improperly set, or using the wrong anchor, will drag just as readily with all-chain as with short heavy chain & line. OTOH I've anchored securely many a night (including some pretty heavy weather) with rodes of mostly rope. Misunderstanding here! I gave up the idea of an all chain rode when I gave up on my version of Badger. The short heavy length is what I'm thinking of. Or a keggle. I imagine that most of my anchoring will be along the shores of the Ohio River, and there's some pretty nasty jetsum, up to and including houses and sunken barges, in those parts. Stowage amidships has been done, but it's a really difficult thing to do well. True. .... Put it amidships and you've diced the cabin with the hawse tube. Put it to one side and, over time, one of your legs gets shorter. In small boats, I've had pretty good luck storing the anchor either under the well deck or at the forward end of one of the cockpit lockers, and leading the rode around the outside to the bow chock. When you want to anchor, just pull up a little further to windward of your spot to allow for the extra 20 or so feet of rode you just dropped. That also eliminates the ugly marks from dragging the chain across the boat. That's an idea I really like! I keep forgetting that I'll have all that storage under the cockpit seats. Once it's rinsed off, it can go by the battery bank (with proper insulation/protection/baffles). I've updated the rudder pictures in the middle of http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/Dayawl.html Roger http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
True. That doesn't mean you need to carry it right at the bow.
derbyrm wrote: But that's where the self draining storage compartment is shown by the designer. That's a good feature. I didn't think much of anchor wells until we owned a boat that had one. Bolger's designs have the added benefit of being able to get the weight down lower. Still want to minimize weight up front. The boat's not a one-design racer but it's small enough to suffer if you were to carry too much weight up there. Misunderstanding here! I gave up the idea of an all chain rode when I gave up on my version of Badger. The short heavy length is what I'm thinking of. Or a keggle. Don't know what a keggle is. We do a lot of anchoring in shallow muddy places. The set-up we use for our "working" anchor is a shorter (40') length of heavier chain. Bought from a farm-supply store at approx 1/2 marine prices (yes it is HT hot galvanized, same stuff). I imagine that most of my anchoring will be along the shores of the Ohio River, and there's some pretty nasty jetsum, up to and including houses and sunken barges, in those parts. You'll probably want a trip line. We rarely use one. Our plan is to do an eastern loop (or Great Loop or circumnavigate West Virginia) via the ICW, Hudson, Erie Canal, Great Lakes, Mississippi River, down & around Florida... up the Ohio for at least a short stretch, so we'll see what it's like too. Aren't there a lot of nice lakes in that area? That's an idea I really like! I keep forgetting that I'll have all that storage under the cockpit seats. Once it's rinsed off, it can go by the battery bank (with proper insulation/protection/baffles). Can you put in a self-draining shelf to put it on? The darn things are almost always dirty & damp. Here's my current project http://community.webshots.com/album/82561569ZSrzNA Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
"DSK" wrote in message
... True. That doesn't mean you need to carry it right at the bow. derbyrm wrote: But that's where the self draining storage compartment is shown by the designer. That's a good feature. I didn't think much of anchor wells until we owned a boat that had one. Bolger's designs have the added benefit of being able to get the weight down lower. Still want to minimize weight up front. The boat's not a one-design racer but it's small enough to suffer if you were to carry too much weight up there. Misunderstanding here! I gave up the idea of an all chain rode when I gave up on my version of Badger. The short heavy length is what I'm thinking of. Or a keggle. Don't know what a keggle is. I've been having trouble finding the correct spelling for the gadget. What I'm referring to is a weight which slides down the rode, part way, to emulate the catenary you'd get with the chain. It has its own light line for recovery and positioning. We do a lot of anchoring in shallow muddy places. The set-up we use for our "working" anchor is a shorter (40') length of heavier chain. Bought from a farm-supply store at approx 1/2 marine prices (yes it is HT hot galvanized, same stuff). I imagine that most of my anchoring will be along the shores of the Ohio River, and there's some pretty nasty jetsum, up to and including houses and sunken barges, in those parts. You'll probably want a trip line. We rarely use one. Our plan is to do an eastern loop (or Great Loop or circumnavigate West Virginia) via the ICW, Hudson, Erie Canal, Great Lakes, Mississippi River, down & around Florida... up the Ohio for at least a short stretch, so we'll see what it's like too. That "Great Loop" excursion has been a dream of mine for many years, starting back when I lived in Schenectady, NY. I don't think the Chebacco's living accomodations are up to it. It would work better with one of Bolger's long, skinny motor boats. I found it interesting that from Cleveland to Chicago is over 1000 miles by water. That's an idea I really like! I keep forgetting that I'll have all that storage under the cockpit seats. Once it's rinsed off, it can go by the battery bank (with proper insulation/protection/baffles). Can you put in a self-draining shelf to put it on? The darn things are almost always dirty & damp. Good idea, but it will have to wait until I turn the hull over. Here's my current project http://community.webshots.com/album/82561569ZSrzNA Fresh Breezes- Doug King Roger http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
I recollect the generic term "kellet" and that there was a commercial
product called "Rode Rider". "derbyrm" wrote in message news:TbZ_f.920479$xm3.387773@attbi_s21... "DSK" wrote in message ... True. That doesn't mean you need to carry it right at the bow. derbyrm wrote: But that's where the self draining storage compartment is shown by the designer. That's a good feature. I didn't think much of anchor wells until we owned a boat that had one. Bolger's designs have the added benefit of being able to get the weight down lower. Still want to minimize weight up front. The boat's not a one-design racer but it's small enough to suffer if you were to carry too much weight up there. Misunderstanding here! I gave up the idea of an all chain rode when I gave up on my version of Badger. The short heavy length is what I'm thinking of. Or a keggle. Don't know what a keggle is. I've been having trouble finding the correct spelling for the gadget. What I'm referring to is a weight which slides down the rode, part way, to emulate the catenary you'd get with the chain. It has its own light line for recovery and positioning. We do a lot of anchoring in shallow muddy places. The set-up we use for our "working" anchor is a shorter (40') length of heavier chain. Bought from a farm-supply store at approx 1/2 marine prices (yes it is HT hot galvanized, same stuff). I imagine that most of my anchoring will be along the shores of the Ohio River, and there's some pretty nasty jetsum, up to and including houses and sunken barges, in those parts. You'll probably want a trip line. We rarely use one. Our plan is to do an eastern loop (or Great Loop or circumnavigate West Virginia) via the ICW, Hudson, Erie Canal, Great Lakes, Mississippi River, down & around Florida... up the Ohio for at least a short stretch, so we'll see what it's like too. That "Great Loop" excursion has been a dream of mine for many years, starting back when I lived in Schenectady, NY. I don't think the Chebacco's living accomodations are up to it. It would work better with one of Bolger's long, skinny motor boats. I found it interesting that from Cleveland to Chicago is over 1000 miles by water. That's an idea I really like! I keep forgetting that I'll have all that storage under the cockpit seats. Once it's rinsed off, it can go by the battery bank (with proper insulation/protection/baffles). Can you put in a self-draining shelf to put it on? The darn things are almost always dirty & damp. Good idea, but it will have to wait until I turn the hull over. Here's my current project http://community.webshots.com/album/82561569ZSrzNA Fresh Breezes- Doug King Roger http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
Jim Conlin wrote:
I recollect the generic term "kellet" and that there was a commercial product called "Rode Rider". Isn't "killock" also used for that? Nautical terminolgy isn't a high precision science. In the Hornblower books, occasionally they use a cannon barrel as a kellet, for better holding & security. Kind of drastic but then Hornblower *never* dragged anchor! Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
That's the word!
Roger (a brain is a terrible thing to lose) http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm "Jim Conlin" wrote I recollect the generic term "kellet" and that there was a commercial product called "Rode Rider". "derbyrm" wrote in message news:TbZ_f.920479$xm3.387773@attbi_s21... "DSK" wrote in message ... True. That doesn't mean you need to carry it right at the bow. derbyrm wrote: snip Misunderstanding here! I gave up the idea of an all chain rode when I gave up on my version of Badger. The short heavy length is what I'm thinking of. Or a keggle. Don't know what a keggle is. I've been having trouble finding the correct spelling for the gadget. What I'm referring to is a weight which slides down the rode, part way, to emulate the catenary you'd get with the chain. It has its own light line for recovery and positioning. snip |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
Killock \Kil"lock\, n. [Cf. Scot. killick ``the flue [fluke] of an anchor.'' --Jamieson.] A small anchor; also, a kind of anchor formed by a stone inclosed by pieces of wood fastened together. [Written also killick.]"DSK" wrote in message ... Jim Conlin wrote: I recollect the generic term "kellet" and that there was a commercial product called "Rode Rider". Isn't "killock" also used for that? Nautical terminolgy isn't a high precision science. In the Hornblower books, occasionally they use a cannon barrel as a kellet, for better holding & security. Kind of drastic but then Hornblower *never* dragged anchor! Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
Jim Conlin wrote:
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) Killock \Kil"lock\, n. [Cf. Scot. killick ``the flue [fluke] of an anchor.'' --Jamieson.] A small anchor; also, a kind of anchor formed by a stone inclosed by pieces of wood fastened together. [Written also killick.] Got it. The nice thing about the "kind of anchor formed by a stone inclosed by pieces of wood fastened together" (gee I haven't seen one of those in years & years) is that it's totally corrosion free. DSK |
making a rudder - this may be a stupid question but.........
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:57:51 GMT, "derbyrm"
wrote: Mr. Fox seems to disagree with Phillip C. Bolger. In "Thirty Odd Boats" PCB, commenting on Herreshoff's Rosinante suggests that "half the weight in that 3000 lb. keel is to give the boat momentum." The keel is the only part of a sailboat that benefits from weight, and even there it should be limited to just what is necessary. |
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