Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

I am not satisfied with the existing bilge pump system in my 36. It
consists of a manual Whale Gusher, operated from a lever in the
cockpit, with a 1.5" intake and outflow to a thru hull low by the
transom and a Rule 800 on an auto switch with a 3/4" outflow to a
thru hull high on the topsides.

Improving the outflow from the Rule Auto is not an option and a
larger pump pushing more water thru the 3/4" out flow won't do
anything. Ideally I would keep the small Rule in place and run a new
1.5" outlet from a new high output auto switched pump to its own
thruhull but the routing doesn't look doable. So I am considering :

1: Removing the Whale gusher and installing a large auto switched
bilge pump to the existing manual pump thruhull.

2: Installing a check valve on the manual pump intake foot and Wye
in the large pump outlet after that and push the outlet water thru
the manual pump.

3: Remove the manual pump intake foot and use the large auto
switched centrifigal as the intake for the manual pump and push the
water thru the manual pump.

I would appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Just did what you are about to do.
I used a 750 gph with a ¾" outlet for deep bilge
3700 gph 11/2 " outlet at higher level
30 Gusher manual
2 buckets
Each pump has its OWN separate intake and discharge hose.

Not much I to suggest except do a group search. It aint rocket science.
Lots of valuable info found here if take time to look and read.
However....I do recommend using

1 ½ " pvc "SUCTION" hose. Its found anywhere for about
$1.20-$1.80/ foot. Go to a farm supply or contractor supply or home
depot. Do not even think about saying marine bilge hose! The wine
industry use it too except that stuff is USDA okay and lots more
expensive. "Trash pump suction hose" is what ya want. Its very tough
with hard plastic spiral. Very smooth inside. Also clear. But some
folks would say that algae will grow inside. Has not happened to me.
Besides I like the idea of a fast visual assessment to find an
obstruction in the system.. Don't forget the vented loops.
Still Bobing thanks to suction hose.

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
However....I do recommend using

1 ½ " pvc "SUCTION" hose. Its found anywhere for about
$1.20-$1.80/ foot. Go to a farm supply or contractor supply or home
depot. Do not even think about saying marine bilge hose! The wine
industry use it too except that stuff is USDA okay and lots more
expensive. "Trash pump suction hose" is what ya want. Its very tough
with hard plastic spiral. Very smooth inside. Also clear.
************

I was not able, in many googlings, to find this stuff ("Trash pump suction
hose") easily.

However, a couple of potentials surfaced when I went to the ads at the side,
speaking of suction hose.

Are either of these the sort of thing you're speaking of?

http://www.hosecraftusa.com/model.php?modelUID=262
http://www.cat-vacuum-collectors.com...acuum-hose.htm
(G-vac or B-flex)

Better, if you have a HD part number, can you share it?

The costs shown in what I could see suggests it's close to what one would
pay for top quality marine sanitation hose (not clear, of course), i.e. 4-6
a foot. Is that your experience? Or, better stated, can you share specific
walk-in (vs shipped) sources for this stuff?

I'd use it both in discharge (1.125) on the electrics, and suction (1.5) on
the whale Gusher manuals, replacing all the old hose present currrently, if
I could find it inexpensively.

Thanks.

L8R

Skip, wanting to get rid of the cheap corrugated stuff on the boat now, and
not wanting to spend as much as the braided clear poly waterline costs

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Most clear hoses are not rated for below-waterline connections...so be
careful where you use non-"marine grade" hoses.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Peggie Hall wrote:
Most clear hoses are not rated for below-waterline connections...so be
careful where you use non-"marine grade" hoses.

Hi Peggy:

You raised a question I have been think about lately. When people say
for "below the water line" applications, just what does that mean? 100%
immersion 100% of the time such as hose connected to an under the water
through hull or a low spot in a hose run that allows pooled liquid.
Does that also apply to a bilge intake and discharge hose which are
only seldom and intermittently immersed yet live "below the
waterline" in a normally dry area?

I realize that installations vary and some bilges are a rather
disgusting wet place but on the other hand, there are the painted white
guys who dust their bilge out every few months. In my case, the bilge
hose I use is that " PVC suction hose" I mentioned. It is reinforced
with a PVC coil, smooth inside, with wall thickness about 1/4." Very
smooth and extraordinarily stout.

But on my boat, the bilge discharge side carries water for only a few
seconds a few times each day depending on what's happening. If at the
dock, months go by without the bilge tripping on. The suction side may
be moist but not immerged for more than a few minutes.

What concerns should I have regarding pvc used in a relatively dry
place under the water line? Come to think about it I think I sit
"below the water line" most of the time. The big problem I have is
adding more combustible stuff to the boat. But hey, the boat is nothing
but plastic and wood anyway. Poof!

Bob

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Skip G.

I'll check on manufacturing and part number RE the pvc suction hose and
will post here in a few days. However, I hope Peggy H. responds to my
"below the waterline" question and her concerns about pvc. I hope I do
not have to rip out my new bilge system.
Bob

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Below is company info I copied. It looks like the stuff I use. I
googled a search and I found several companies that manufacture or
distribute a similar product. Its your basic clear pvc hose with
integrated helix coil.

http://www.ajayindcorp.com/products_Suction.htm
http://www.hosexpress.com/pvchose/seriesfg.htm
http://www.hosexpress.com/pvchose/serieshjk.htm

APPLICATIONS
Marine: Resistance to Sun, weather and salt water helps it withstand
severe marine service. Ease of handling and lightweight are important
features during foul weather.

Properties:
-It is light in weight, easy to handle and yet strong
-Does not corrode or rust
-Simpler installation and lesser fittings
-Superior weathering
-Bright and attractive
-Economical - inexpensive initial cost and maintenance
-Non flammable
-Transparent: possible to observe inside conditions
-Affluent in flexibility: usable anywhere
-Superior to chemical resistance, ideal for conveyance
-Excellent in pressure and abrasion resistance, ideal for conveyance of
powder as well as fluids
-Easily Cut-able into any desired lengths

Sounds as though it would work in the bilge.
Bob

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Bob wrote:

You raised a question I have been think about lately. When people say
for "below the water line" applications, just what does that mean?

If the thru-hull is below waterline at least 50% of the time--especially
while the boat is at rest (wave, wake, tide), it would be wise to
consider it to be a below-waterline thru-hull. If it's only submerged
when the boat is heeled--which would also imply "only when you're
aboard," it's not.

That said, I would not connect ANY clear hose to any thru-hull. 'Cuz
IMO, whether it's hoses or anything else, you can never regret erring on
the side of caution. And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper. And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Peggie Hall wrote:

That said, I would not connect ANY clear hose to any thru-hull. 'Cuz
IMO, whether it's hoses or anything else, you can never regret erring on
the side of caution. And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper. And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.
Hi Peggy:

Thank you for the fast reply.

So If I under stand correctly, "below the water line" indicates
100% emersion 100% of the time? What about a bilge system that
discharges through an above the water line (6") through hull? Never
wet until the pump starts and then its empty? Would that situation be
considered "below the waterline?"

On a slightly different thought, one thing that I do hold strongly, or
was that strongly hold, is that the maritime industry is permeated with
tradition. In fact, "tradition" is a selling attribute for many
companies. Do not want to try anything that is not test by time, ya
sure, ya betcha. The problem with that is who is going to take a chance
and test it first? And as far as boat builder are concerned, I agree
they are there to make a profit. COuld be that the pvc hose just takes
alttle mroe time to install because it is more robust that the the
stuff installed at the factory. I know the white 3/4" hose on my new PH
2 could not take the slight bend to the bowl. The hose was colapsed at
the radious and restrist the flow. I "up graded" that factory OEM
asap!.

I looked over the specs for the pvc. No corrugation. Its very smooth
inside. Temp, PSI, flamibility, 1/4" wall, it all looks good. I was
reviewing the different industries that use it in some very horindous
applications. Looks tough! I just belive that looking outside the
marine industry is a reasonable thing to do IF the product is designed
for similar applications but not called "marine."

Silaprene adhesive/sealant is an excellent example. Used in the
trucking industry for decades to "glue" 40' trailers together
only recently "discovered" by sailors to bed through-the-deck chain
plates.

So your apprehension to use the pvc hose for a bilge system is based on
what engineering specification?
Bob

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Yes, there are many traditions around boats and the sea. The one I'm most
fond of is that boats float. Accordingly, while I do experiment elswhere in
boat construction, I will leave to others experiments with the materials and
components that keep the ocean out.

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Peggie Hall wrote:

That said, I would not connect ANY clear hose to any thru-hull. 'Cuz
IMO, whether it's hoses or anything else, you can never regret erring on
the side of caution. And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper. And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.
Hi Peggy:

Thank you for the fast reply.

So If I under stand correctly, "below the water line" indicates
100% emersion 100% of the time? What about a bilge system that
discharges through an above the water line (6") through hull? Never
wet until the pump starts and then its empty? Would that situation be
considered "below the waterline?"

On a slightly different thought, one thing that I do hold strongly, or
was that strongly hold, is that the maritime industry is permeated with
tradition. In fact, "tradition" is a selling attribute for many
companies. Do not want to try anything that is not test by time, ya
sure, ya betcha. The problem with that is who is going to take a chance
and test it first? And as far as boat builder are concerned, I agree
they are there to make a profit. COuld be that the pvc hose just takes
alttle mroe time to install because it is more robust that the the
stuff installed at the factory. I know the white 3/4" hose on my new PH
2 could not take the slight bend to the bowl. The hose was colapsed at
the radious and restrist the flow. I "up graded" that factory OEM
asap!.

I looked over the specs for the pvc. No corrugation. Its very smooth
inside. Temp, PSI, flamibility, 1/4" wall, it all looks good. I was
reviewing the different industries that use it in some very horindous
applications. Looks tough! I just belive that looking outside the
marine industry is a reasonable thing to do IF the product is designed
for similar applications but not called "marine."

Silaprene adhesive/sealant is an excellent example. Used in the
trucking industry for decades to "glue" 40' trailers together
only recently "discovered" by sailors to bed through-the-deck chain
plates.

So your apprehension to use the pvc hose for a bilge system is based on
what engineering specification?
Bob

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 02:44:20 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper.

What 's special about marine-grade bilge pump hose?

And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

Why not? It's pretty crush proof and kink proof. The stuff I'm
familiar with has a fairly smooth bore.

One drawback is that it's supposed to be terminated with wire hose
clamps which may be difficult to get in stainless.

For through hulls I'd look at using some *high* quality hose from the
through hull up to where the 'goose neck' loop would be, and then use
black corrugated hose after that.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.

Anyone had a bilge hose or non-engine hose failure? What sort of hose
was involved?

(x-posted to rec.boats.cruising and uk.rec.boats.power)

cheers,
Pete.

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Pete C wrote:

And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

Why not? It's pretty crush proof and kink proof. The stuff I'm
familiar with has a fairly smooth bore.

Because corrugations are traps that grab onto sea water minerals, bilge
"glop," waste, and anything else that isn't pure clean fresh water.

One drawback is that it's supposed to be terminated with wire hose
clamps which may be difficult to get in stainless.

That's another reason. Wire can cut into the hose too.


For through hulls I'd look at using some *high* quality hose from the
through hull up to where the 'goose neck' loop would be, and then use
black corrugated hose after that.

Anyone had a bilge hose or non-engine hose failure? What sort of hose
was involved?

Lots of people! Cockpit drain hoses, clear water hose used for toilet
intake or sink drains...and yes, bilge pump hoses. Corrugated hoses once
were common on boats, but are no longer recommended for any application,
above or below waterline.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

I've had a sink drain hose fail without warning. It was a cheap currugated
hose. A fair bit of Atlantic came in before we figured out what had
happened. A bad day that I don't ever want to repeat.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 02:44:20 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper.

What 's special about marine-grade bilge pump hose?

And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

Why not? It's pretty crush proof and kink proof. The stuff I'm
familiar with has a fairly smooth bore.

One drawback is that it's supposed to be terminated with wire hose
clamps which may be difficult to get in stainless.

For through hulls I'd look at using some *high* quality hose from the
through hull up to where the 'goose neck' loop would be, and then use
black corrugated hose after that.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.

Anyone had a bilge hose or non-engine hose failure? What sort of hose
was involved?

(x-posted to rec.boats.cruising and uk.rec.boats.power)

cheers,
Pete.

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:01:07 -0500, "Jim Conlin"
wrote:

I've had a sink drain hose fail without warning. It was a cheap currugated
hose. A fair bit of Atlantic came in before we figured out what had
happened. A bad day that I don't ever want to repeat.

I see. Did it split on a bend, at the clamp, or just in a straight
run? Was it this sort of hose? :

http://www.pacificecho.com/120.htm

cheers,
Pete.

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

The hose was pretty similar to that stuff. Some hot water was put down a
galley sink drain and water started coming out of the cabinet under the
sink. It took a while to realize that it was seawater and that therefore
there was a lot more available than the gallon that had gone down the drain.
As I said, a bad day. I got religion.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:01:07 -0500, "Jim Conlin"
wrote:

I've had a sink drain hose fail without warning. It was a cheap
currugated
hose. A fair bit of Atlantic came in before we figured out what had
happened. A bad day that I don't ever want to repeat.

I see. Did it split on a bend, at the clamp, or just in a straight
run? Was it this sort of hose? :

http://www.pacificecho.com/120.htm

cheers,
Pete.

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

"Peggie Hall" wrote

intake or sink drains...and yes, bilge pump hoses. Corrugated hoses
once were common on boats, but are no longer recommended for any
application, above or below waterline.


Peggie,

Are you talking about the kind of hose in this picture?

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Bilge.htm#Sump

It's almost perfectly smooth on the inside and quite a dense looking
plastic. The standard hose clamps seemed to make a good seal. My
pumps discharge above the waterline so there is no standing water in
the hose. I usually pump the bilge with the hand pump before the
level gets high enough for these pumps to run. It's the only 1 1/8"
stuff I could get at the time.

Do you think I should replace these hoses?

--

Roger Long

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Roger Long wrote:
Are you talking about the kind of hose in this picture?

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Bilge.htm#Sump

I can't tell from the photo, Roger, whether it's corrugated or only
reinforced. If it's rated for the application--not only for below
waterline, but for whatever goes through it and the temperature of
it--it's ok. If it's not, I'd replace it.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Since I started the deviation from the original, and Peggie has raised what
I consider valid points about below-grade stuff...

My applications are for suction or lift only. That is, if it's below
waterline, and attached to a manual bilge pump way above the waterline, the
only time it will be used is to suck up from the bilge. If it's attached to
a submerged bilge pump, the only time it will have water in it is when the
bilge pump is pushing it out, to a vented loop drain.

If those are the uses, are there any caveats? I'm interested in increasing
flow/decreasing resistance by not having that wire-wrap-without-a-slit or
small-shop-vac-suckerhose equivalent usual bilge hose with the cuffs every
foot or so for my discharge. And, my manuals are Whale Gusher 10s, with big
hoses (what's currently there looks about like central vacuum cleaner hose,
but it's not smooth on the inside and quite thinwalled).

And, just to check, I thought that all below-waterline hoses (with static
pressure, of course), for any application, were supposed to be wire
reinforced. Was that urban legend foisted on me by my diesel mech and
surveyor, or true?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
om...
Roger Long wrote:
Are you talking about the kind of hose in this picture?

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Bilge.htm#Sump

I can't tell from the photo, Roger, whether it's corrugated or only
reinforced. If it's rated for the application--not only for below
waterline, but for whatever goes through it and the temperature of
it--it's ok. If it's not, I'd replace it.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

It's reinforced. The inside is like regular hose with only the
slightest irregularity from the outer reinforcing ribs slightly
distorting the plastic as it set. Absent the reinforcing ribs,
it's about as thick as clear plastic hose but appears to be a tougher
material. No wire in it but it would take quite a suction with the
ribs.

I bought this stuff at Hamilton Marine and the box said bilge pump
hose. (They also had the cheap, truly corrugated stuff.) I think
it's OK.

BTW wire can cause it's own problems. When we first tried to start
the engine of our new boat, the cooling system was sucking air. We
spent hours trying to track it down. It finally turned out to be the
connection at the strainer which was very hard to see. Even though
the wire in the hose was stainless, the end had touched the bronze
strainer body and the electrolysis had degraded the rubber.
Fortunately, the seller was paying but that cost him about $250.
Here's a photo:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Hose.jpg

No choice but to have wire when there is going to be any significant
suction but this is something to watch for when you are cutting the
wire while trimming hoses. Don't let the end of the wire stick out
where it can contact other metal.


--

Roger Long



"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
om...
Roger Long wrote:
Are you talking about the kind of hose in this picture?

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Bilge.htm#Sump

I can't tell from the photo, Roger, whether it's corrugated or only
reinforced. If it's rated for the application--not only for below
waterline, but for whatever goes through it and the temperature of
it--it's ok. If it's not, I'd replace it.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems
and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:58:37 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Pete C wrote:

And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

Why not? It's pretty crush proof and kink proof. The stuff I'm
familiar with has a fairly smooth bore.

Because corrugations are traps that grab onto sea water minerals, bilge
"glop," waste, and anything else that isn't pure clean fresh water.

One drawback is that it's supposed to be terminated with wire hose
clamps which may be difficult to get in stainless.

That's another reason. Wire can cut into the hose too.

I s'pose being reinforced by a spiral instead of braid it can split
across the hose quite drastically.


For through hulls I'd look at using some *high* quality hose from the
through hull up to where the 'goose neck' loop would be, and then use
black corrugated hose after that.

Anyone had a bilge hose or non-engine hose failure? What sort of hose
was involved?

Lots of people! Cockpit drain hoses, clear water hose used for toilet
intake or sink drains...and yes, bilge pump hoses. Corrugated hoses once
were common on boats, but are no longer recommended for any application,
above or below waterline.

I'm only planning to use it on a shower drain and sump hose on an
inland boat, nowhere near the waterline so it's not tooo critical.

One thing it might be good for is sleeving braided hose to give it
protection against being crushed or chafed. Also as waterproof conduit
for cables.

cheers,
Pete.

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:27:30 -0500, "Jim Conlin"
wrote:

The hose was pretty similar to that stuff. Some hot water was put down a
galley sink drain and water started coming out of the cabinet under the
sink. It took a while to realize that it was seawater and that therefore
there was a lot more available than the gallon that had gone down the drain.
As I said, a bad day. I got religion.

$$$$ hose religion I expect...

cheers,
Pete.

Clear corrugated suction hose (was) Bilge Pump Upgrade
 

Yup, and that religion has added up to 0.3% of the cost of owning that boat
over 25 years.
"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:27:30 -0500, "Jim Conlin"
wrote:

The hose was pretty similar to that stuff. Some hot water was put down a
galley sink drain and water started coming out of the cabinet under the
sink. It took a while to realize that it was seawater and that therefore
there was a lot more available than the gallon that had gone down the
drain.
As I said, a bad day. I got religion.

$$$$ hose religion I expect...

cheers,
Pete.