dugout
 

Has anyone here ever carved a dugout canoe?
I have several large white pine logs that I'm thinking of attacking
just for the fun of it.
Any suggestions on procedure would be welcome.
I know that white pine is not the best material but I find it
interesting that an ancient dugout canoe was found locally in a natural
pond. It was white pine.
Here is my plan.
With a chain saw and broad hatchet, sharpen both ends of the log so
that,in plan,the sheer is shaped the way I want it except a little
skinnier in the middle because the log is only about 24 inches across.
Then shape the profile view using chain saw and adze.
Then shape the rest of the outside of the hull using a large shallow
gouge or sculptors adze.
I plan to oil everything as I go and keep it covered with plastic and
wet rags as I go when not working on it.
Then, once the outside is shaped, attack the inside using chain saw and
sculptors adze.
When the hull is near the final thickness, drill holes through the hull
and insert dowels to the depth I want the hull thickness to be so that
when I get down to them, I can see where I am and fine tune the
thickness with shallow gouges.
Then, fill the boat with water and drop hot rocks into it to heat the
water and expand and soften the wood so that I can spread the sheer
apart and finish shaping the boat by inserting cross thwarts.
Any thoughts on what to oil it with or whether the hull will split while
working? Will this procedure work? How thick should it be?
If it works,I'm planning on using a heavy coating of pine tar on the
outside for water proofing and tung oil on the inside. Any suggestions
on hull shape? Most of the primitive boats Ive seen like this are pretty
crude but I was thinking more on the lines of the carved canoes from the
Northwest for hull shape.

dugout
 

steveJ wrote in message ...
snip
and broad hatchet, sharpen both ends of the log so
that,in plan,the sheer is shaped the way I want it except a little
skinnier in the middle because the log is only about 24 inches across.
Then shape the profile view using chain saw and adze.
Then shape the rest of the outside of the hull using a large shallow
gouge or sculptors adze.
snip
When the hull is near the final thickness, drill holes through the hull
and insert dowels to the depth I want the hull thickness to be so that
when I get down to them, I can see where I am and fine tune the
thickness with shallow gouges.
snip

The only thing that strikes me here is I keep saying to myself, he
should carve the inside first. I think the outside will be easier to
shape, and control the shaping tools, then if you make a mistake on
the inside, or find a major flaw, you have material to work with to
shape the outside a little different if necessary. As to the shape of
the thing, I would try to get as much out of it as possible. I have
seen pictures where they are more or less rounded for and aft as
opposed to pointy ends, this makes shaping easier too.
Scotty

dugout
 

On 17 Feb 2004 08:21:28 -0800, (Backyard
Renegade) wrote:

steveJ wrote in message ...
snip
and broad hatchet, sharpen both ends of the log so
that,in plan,the sheer is shaped the way I want it except a little
skinnier in the middle because the log is only about 24 inches across.
Then shape the profile view using chain saw and adze.
Then shape the rest of the outside of the hull using a large shallow
gouge or sculptors adze.
snip
When the hull is near the final thickness, drill holes through the hull
and insert dowels to the depth I want the hull thickness to be so that
when I get down to them, I can see where I am and fine tune the
thickness with shallow gouges.
snip

The only thing that strikes me here is I keep saying to myself, he
should carve the inside first. I think the outside will be easier to
shape, and control the shaping tools, then if you make a mistake on
the inside, or find a major flaw, you have material to work with to
shape the outside a little different if necessary.

I see your point, but if I am not mistaken, the NW Indian canoes were
shaped on the outside first. After all, having a fair shape is
important.

Shape on the inside can be controlled by inserting pegs of contrasting
wood from the faired outside of hull. These plugs would establish the
hull thickness.

dugout
 

I wondered about the shape of the ends too.
Pictures I've seen show two basic types. pointy or blunt.
Certainly the blunt ended is less labor but with chain saws
its neglegible.
I'm thinking that the pointy ended is a more highly developed hull shape
and that the blunt one is more primitive but also may be a way to deal
with inevitable checking of the wood from the end.
From what Ive seen, the blunt end boats were carved from the inside
first, burned out actually. These hulls are basically log shaped so the
carving of the outside would be pretty straight foward.
With a pointed end boat, I would have a hard time shaping and
visualizing the negative space of the hull if starting from the inside.
I think I can visualize and carve the outer shape preety much by eye
though.
I'm mostly worried about controlling checking and figuring out the final
shape when its done. Since this hull will be sprung out from the inside
I'm wondering how much it will spring and how thick I'd need to make the
wood to resist splitting it. Will speading the gunnals apart result in
hogging the bottom?
I was also wondering if the charring used to remove wood also adds to
rot resistence or if it was simply the only way to remove the wood
before steel was available.

Backyard Renegade wrote:
steveJ wrote in message ...
snip
and broad hatchet, sharpen both ends of the log so

that,in plan,the sheer is shaped the way I want it except a little
skinnier in the middle because the log is only about 24 inches across.
Then shape the profile view using chain saw and adze.
Then shape the rest of the outside of the hull using a large shallow
gouge or sculptors adze.

snip

When the hull is near the final thickness, drill holes through the hull
and insert dowels to the depth I want the hull thickness to be so that
when I get down to them, I can see where I am and fine tune the
thickness with shallow gouges.

snip

The only thing that strikes me here is I keep saying to myself, he
should carve the inside first. I think the outside will be easier to
shape, and control the shaping tools, then if you make a mistake on
the inside, or find a major flaw, you have material to work with to
shape the outside a little different if necessary. As to the shape of
the thing, I would try to get as much out of it as possible. I have
seen pictures where they are more or less rounded for and aft as
opposed to pointy ends, this makes shaping easier too.
Scotty

dugout
 

Steve,
Sounds like an interesting project, but maybe you're asking the
wrong group. You might consider posting the question on a Native
American or Hawaiian cultural group. I understand that the aboriginal
peoples burned the logs, and controlled the burning by adding mud
packs to protect the parts of the log that they didn't want to
eliminate by burning.

Ed.




steveJ wrote in message ...
I wondered about the shape of the ends too.
Pictures I've seen show two basic types. pointy or blunt.
Certainly the blunt ended is less labor but with chain saws
its neglegible.
I'm thinking that the pointy ended is a more highly developed hull shape
and that the blunt one is more primitive but also may be a way to deal
with inevitable checking of the wood from the end.
From what Ive seen, the blunt end boats were carved from the inside
first, burned out actually. These hulls are basically log shaped so the
carving of the outside would be pretty straight foward.
With a pointed end boat, I would have a hard time shaping and
visualizing the negative space of the hull if starting from the inside.
I think I can visualize and carve the outer shape preety much by eye
though.
I'm mostly worried about controlling checking and figuring out the final
shape when its done. Since this hull will be sprung out from the inside
I'm wondering how much it will spring and how thick I'd need to make the
wood to resist splitting it. Will speading the gunnals apart result in
hogging the bottom?
I was also wondering if the charring used to remove wood also adds to
rot resistence or if it was simply the only way to remove the wood
before steel was available.

Backyard Renegade wrote:
steveJ wrote in message ...
snip
and broad hatchet, sharpen both ends of the log so

that,in plan,the sheer is shaped the way I want it except a little
skinnier in the middle because the log is only about 24 inches across.
Then shape the profile view using chain saw and adze.
Then shape the rest of the outside of the hull using a large shallow
gouge or sculptors adze.

snip

When the hull is near the final thickness, drill holes through the hull
and insert dowels to the depth I want the hull thickness to be so that
when I get down to them, I can see where I am and fine tune the
thickness with shallow gouges.

snip

The only thing that strikes me here is I keep saying to myself, he
should carve the inside first. I think the outside will be easier to
shape, and control the shaping tools, then if you make a mistake on
the inside, or find a major flaw, you have material to work with to
shape the outside a little different if necessary. As to the shape of
the thing, I would try to get as much out of it as possible. I have
seen pictures where they are more or less rounded for and aft as
opposed to pointy ends, this makes shaping easier too.
Scotty

dugout
 

Thanks Ed, I will give them a try

Ed Askew wrote:
Steve,
Sounds like an interesting project, but maybe you're asking the
wrong group. You might consider posting the question on a Native
American or Hawaiian cultural group. I understand that the aboriginal
peoples burned the logs, and controlled the burning by adding mud
packs to protect the parts of the log that they didn't want to
eliminate by burning.

Ed.




steveJ wrote in message ...

I wondered about the shape of the ends too.
Pictures I've seen show two basic types. pointy or blunt.
Certainly the blunt ended is less labor but with chain saws
its neglegible.
I'm thinking that the pointy ended is a more highly developed hull shape
and that the blunt one is more primitive but also may be a way to deal
with inevitable checking of the wood from the end.
From what Ive seen, the blunt end boats were carved from the inside
first, burned out actually. These hulls are basically log shaped so the
carving of the outside would be pretty straight foward.
With a pointed end boat, I would have a hard time shaping and
visualizing the negative space of the hull if starting from the inside.
I think I can visualize and carve the outer shape preety much by eye
though.
I'm mostly worried about controlling checking and figuring out the final
shape when its done. Since this hull will be sprung out from the inside
I'm wondering how much it will spring and how thick I'd need to make the
wood to resist splitting it. Will speading the gunnals apart result in
hogging the bottom?
I was also wondering if the charring used to remove wood also adds to
rot resistence or if it was simply the only way to remove the wood
before steel was available.

Backyard Renegade wrote:

steveJ wrote in message ...
snip
and broad hatchet, sharpen both ends of the log so


that,in plan,the sheer is shaped the way I want it except a little
skinnier in the middle because the log is only about 24 inches across.
Then shape the profile view using chain saw and adze.
Then shape the rest of the outside of the hull using a large shallow
gouge or sculptors adze.

snip

When the hull is near the final thickness, drill holes through the hull
and insert dowels to the depth I want the hull thickness to be so that
when I get down to them, I can see where I am and fine tune the
thickness with shallow gouges.

snip

The only thing that strikes me here is I keep saying to myself, he
should carve the inside first. I think the outside will be easier to
shape, and control the shaping tools, then if you make a mistake on
the inside, or find a major flaw, you have material to work with to
shape the outside a little different if necessary. As to the shape of
the thing, I would try to get as much out of it as possible. I have
seen pictures where they are more or less rounded for and aft as
opposed to pointy ends, this makes shaping easier too.
Scotty

dugout
 

I've built a couple outrigger canoes while I was living in the Philippines.

Not exactly what you had in mind..

The logs that these canoes are made out of can only be obtained by illegal
loggers since the government controls all logging.. So if your a boat
builder, you just mention that you want a dugout of a certain size and
shape. In a couple days it arrives at your gate.

Their outrigger canoes "Banca" have the dugout only as the lower portion of
the hull. The log is shapped with ax and knife, inside and out. They put
some nice shape in the bow and stern so it will slip through the water
easily.

The builder has to raise the freeboard with some ply and framing.. However
this process is started by fitting a stem and a stern post. A rabbit is cut
into the upper edge of the dugout and 1/4" ply is fitted, then a cap on top
of the ply and then the frames.. A few supports for floor boards, an engine
bed for a 10 to 15 hp air cooled engine.. Shaft log for 3/4" ss shaft and
hand made prop.

Oh, can't forget the outriggers.. There are numerous types of bambo. The
cross pieces are a kind of rattan and are solid and bent to shape using a
hot fire.. The outrigger floats are the large hollow bambo and if you can't
get them large enough, you get several and bundle them together.. All this
stuff is secured with nylon fish line for lashings.

A properly built Banca can do about 30 mph with a 10 hp Wisconson. The ones
with a 4 cylinder Toyota can out run the harbor patrol.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

dugout
 

At Plimouth Plantation a Wampanoag group burns out canoes regularly. You
can "help scrape out a mishoon (boat) using centuries-old techniques."

They have quite a fleet. I found it fascinating talking with the guys as
they tended the coals. About the most laid-back, scenic boat "shop" I've
ever been in. I think it took a couple months for each boat.

http://www.plimoth.org/visit/what/hobbamock.asp#1

Quoting:
For questions about Wampanoag history and culture, contact:
Linda Coombs
(508) 746-1622, extension 8385
lcoombs (at) plimoth (dot) org


"Ed Askew" wrote in message
om...
Steve,
Sounds like an interesting project, but maybe you're asking the
wrong group. You might consider posting the question on a Native
American or Hawaiian cultural group. I understand that the aboriginal
peoples burned the logs, and controlled the burning by adding mud
packs to protect the parts of the log that they didn't want to
eliminate by burning.

dugout
 

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 03:41:30 GMT, steveJ wrote:

Has anyone here ever carved a dugout canoe?

try this

http://www.google.ca/search?q=dugout...e+Search&meta=