sailmaking questions
 

I just bought the material to make the sail for our still unfinished
10' nesting sailboat. I took another look at the material (thin
nylon) at Walmart and did find that you could readily blow air through
it and quickly decided against it. Then I found material that looks
suspiciously like real dacron sailcloth. The clerks had no idea what
it was. It's strong (I can't tear a thin sample of the cloth), it
melts with a match...and it's much thicker than the nylon material AND
you can't blow through it at all. At $1/yd, I couldn't resist it. At
that price, I figured it's worth playing with (even if it is bright,
BRIGHT yellow).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to design the sail. Hubby finally
decided that he didn't want the sprit sail and opted for a cat rig
instead. This material is 56" wide and I'm wondering if I should just
sew the panels together (using the full width of the material) or
what??? It looks like most sails use narrower panels but it seems
silly to cut the material only to resew it. Also not sure how to go
about shaping the sails. I'm thinking of keeping it simple and just
sewing the panels flat and shaping the sail somewhat by curving the
edges of the sail.

Appreciate any suggestions. Not looking for a professional
sail...just trying to do the best I can without knowing what I'm
doing.

Thanks!

Sandy

sailmaking questions
 

Sandy, you need to get hold of a copy of The Sail Makers Apprentice, by
Emiliano Marino..

This book will take some of the mystery out of the sail making task..

There is no doubt that you can make your sail without this book but if you
want this to be a good learning experience, with a sail that will look and
perform good and you can be proud of, then find a copy..

One of the most important factors in selecting a material for a sail that
will hold it's shape, is whether it will stretch when you set it and when
you get some wind pressure on it.. The Nylon would have been a mistake and I
hope this other material will resist the tendency to stretch.

There are two methods to getting shape in a sail. The most common with
todays low stretch sail cloth is accomplished by "broad seaming". This is a
method of controling the amount of sail cloth in each sail panel by varing
either the width of the panel or sewing a wider seam in the areas where you
want to reduce the area..

In the old days (when I sewed my first canvas sail), the sail was sewn up
flat with uniform panel and seam widths, and then you cut a curve in the
luff and foot. That was fine for canvas because the material could "set" to
the shape under pressure. Modern sail fabrics can cope with this slight bias
stretching and with wrinkle.

If you were to order a sail kit from Sail Rite, they would computer cut each
sail cloth panel to the width required, the computer would put match marks
on each panel so you would be sewing everything exactly as the computer
calculated. But then "What would you have learned"? How to measure for your
sail and how to operate your sewing machine (which I suspect you already
know).

Ask around for a copy of the book in your area or ask you public library to
get a copy.. (they often have budgets for special book orders and never know
what to the public needs)

If you in the Puget Sound area, I could loan you my copy..

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

sailmaking questions
 

"Steve" wrote in message the shape under pressure.

Modern sail fabrics can cope with this slight bias
stretching and with wrinkle.


Correction:

This line should read " Modern sail fabrics CAN'T cope with this slight bias
stretching and with wrinkle. "

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

sailmaking questions
 

On 14 Feb 2004 13:29:07 -0800, (sandy) wrote:

I just bought the material to make the sail for our still unfinished
10' nesting sailboat. I took another look at the material (thin
nylon) at Walmart and did find that you could readily blow air through
it and quickly decided against it. Then I found material that looks
suspiciously like real dacron sailcloth. The clerks had no idea what
it was. It's strong (I can't tear a thin sample of the cloth), it
melts with a match...and it's much thicker than the nylon material AND
you can't blow through it at all. At $1/yd, I couldn't resist it. At
that price, I figured it's worth playing with (even if it is bright,
BRIGHT yellow).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to design the sail. Hubby finally
decided that he didn't want the sprit sail and opted for a cat rig
instead. This material is 56" wide and I'm wondering if I should just
sew the panels together (using the full width of the material) or
what??? It looks like most sails use narrower panels but it seems
silly to cut the material only to resew it. Also not sure how to go
about shaping the sails. I'm thinking of keeping it simple and just
sewing the panels flat and shaping the sail somewhat by curving the
edges of the sail.

Appreciate any suggestions. Not looking for a professional
sail...just trying to do the best I can without knowing what I'm
doing.

Thanks!

Sandy


Sail panels are cut into lens-shaped pieces before sewing together.
This builds in the camber (belly) of the sail. It's more complicated
than that but it's all I know about making sails. :o)
I'm sure someone will be along soon to help.
Mark E. Williams

sailmaking questions
 

sail size: look at boats of similar size, shape, and displacement. there
are two guidelines and one caution. first, in light winds you need 2 to
2.25 times the wetted surface of the hull. second, in stronger winds you
need 1 to 1.3 times the square root of the sail area divided by the cube
root of the displacement. make it closer to 1.3 for small boats. the
caution is not to put so much sail on that a nice breeze will blow the
boat over. there's no good way of calculating that. you have to look at
other boats. some people put reef points in their sails to make them
smaller when the wind blows stronger but small dingys usually don't have
them because nobody's supposed to sail boats that small in strong winds.
OTOH I've seen lots of racing dingys get blown over in strong winds. the
sail on my 11 ft one person skiff is 42 sq ft. I put reef points in it but
never use them.

shape: the aspect ratio of a triangular sail is the square of the height
divided by the sail area and should be about 4. I don't think you will
have to cut your 5 ft bolt into panels. you can put a curve in the edges.
use the calculations for the sprit sail on my website. they are good for
trianglular sails too.

reinforcing: add triangles up to 1 ft of cloth at all 3 corners to make
the sail double thick there. you can sew rope along the forward and bottom
edges of the sail.

mast attachment: I like a mast sleeve (like on a Laser) but you can sew
loops of sail cloth or light line to the front of the sail instead, one
every 12" or so. the air escaping around the mast on these sails reduces
power a bit. you don't see loops on boat used for racing. for pleasure
sailing it doesn't matter.

boom: not needed on a really small boat. if the bottom of the sail is more
than 5 ft consider a loose footed boom where the sail is only attached at
the front and back ends of the boom. the boom will hold the sail out
better when the sail is out ot the side.

that's the basics. you sould be able to find info in books at the public
library.

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sailmaking questions
 

William R. Watt ) writes:

shape: ..... I don't think you will
have to cut your 5 ft bolt into panels.

woops. I was thinking sprit sail here. You will have to make your sail
wider than 5 ft. The aspect ratio simplifies to twice the height divided
by the width. A 5 ft wide sail with and aspect ratio of 4 gives a 10 ft
high sail and only 25 sq ft, much too small. Increase the aspect ratio to
5 and the sail is 12.5 ft high and still only 31 sq ft. Looks like you'll
have to make the sail wider than the 5 ft bolt of cloth by cutting into
panels. You might want to include a boom in the rig.

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sailmaking questions
 

try looking up a freeware program called sailcut. it is a perfect
program for projects like this.

William R. Watt wrote:

William R. Watt ) writes:



shape: ..... I don't think you will
have to cut your 5 ft bolt into panels.



woops. I was thinking sprit sail here. You will have to make your sail
wider than 5 ft. The aspect ratio simplifies to twice the height divided
by the width. A 5 ft wide sail with and aspect ratio of 4 gives a 10 ft
high sail and only 25 sq ft, much too small. Increase the aspect ratio to
5 and the sail is 12.5 ft high and still only 31 sq ft. Looks like you'll
have to make the sail wider than the 5 ft bolt of cloth by cutting into
panels. You might want to include a boom in the rig.

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--
remove "abcde" from e-mail address to reply

"I think it would be a good idea."
Mahatma Gandhi
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Mahatma_Gandhi/ (1869 -
1948), when asked what he thought of Western civilization

sailmaking questions
 

Sandy,
I am curious- did you find this material at Wal-Mart also?
Thanks, Carl McCarty

sandy wrote:

I just bought the material to make the sail for our still unfinished
10' nesting sailboat. I took another look at the material (thin
nylon) at Walmart and did find that you could readily blow air through
it and quickly decided against it. Then I found material that looks
suspiciously like real dacron sailcloth. The clerks had no idea what
it was. It's strong (I can't tear a thin sample of the cloth), it
melts with a match...and it's much thicker than the nylon material AND
you can't blow through it at all. At $1/yd, I couldn't resist it. At
that price, I figured it's worth playing with (even if it is bright,
BRIGHT yellow).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to design the sail. Hubby finally
decided that he didn't want the sprit sail and opted for a cat rig
instead. This material is 56" wide and I'm wondering if I should just
sew the panels together (using the full width of the material) or
what??? It looks like most sails use narrower panels but it seems
silly to cut the material only to resew it. Also not sure how to go
about shaping the sails. I'm thinking of keeping it simple and just
sewing the panels flat and shaping the sail somewhat by curving the
edges of the sail.

Appreciate any suggestions. Not looking for a professional
sail...just trying to do the best I can without knowing what I'm
doing.

Thanks!

Sandy

sailmaking questions
 

Carl McCarty wrote in message

I am curious- did you find this material at Wal-Mart also?
Thanks, Carl McCarty


Yep....Walmart! I'd really just about decided to buy some
dacron...but when I wandered through the fabric section of Walmart, I
found this stuff. At $1/yd it's worth it just for the practice....but
it looks good. Really curious to see how it all works out. It's
really strong (one edge of the fabric was imperfect and "ribboned". I
couldn't tear these small ribbons), you can't blow through it, I've
tried stretching it and can't notice stretch, and you can melt it with
a match. Clerk had no idea what kind of fabric it was. I gathered
that they get all sorts of seconds, rejects, etc. Looking forward to
raising our bright yellow sail.

By the way....Any suggestions for "rings" to connect it to mast &
boom? Hubby wants to just use some twine. I'm looking at some
plastic shower rings that we've had stored away forever (and thinking
of putting in grommets to hold rings). Any other suggestions? (Our
mast & boom will be aluminum tubes). Thanks!

Sandy

Sandy

sailmaking questions
 

By the way....Any suggestions for "rings" to connect it to mast &
boom? Hubby wants to just use some twine. I'm looking at some
plastic shower rings that we've had stored away forever (and thinking
of putting in grommets to hold rings). Any other suggestions? (Our
mast & boom will be aluminum tubes). Thanks!

Try cutting mast hoops from section of PVC drain pipe.

sailmaking questions
 

sandy ) writes:

By the way....Any suggestions for "rings" to connect it to mast &
boom? Hubby wants to just use some twine. I'm looking at some
plastic shower rings that we've had stored away forever (and thinking
of putting in grommets to hold rings). Any other suggestions? (Our
mast & boom will be aluminum tubes). Thanks!


If you cut strips of sail cloth and fold (triple thickness) or roll them
up and sew them on (called "rubands") then the loops will be the same
colour as the sail which makes everthing look nice. I got the suggestion
from TF Jones' "Boats to Go" and used them on a nylon spritsail. It goes
on a hand carved solid wooden mast which is not a smooth as aluminum, and
after 7 years they show no wear. Photos of the sail on my website under
"Blue Canoe" and "DogSkiff"

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sailmaking questions
 

On 23 Feb 2004 04:45:57 -0800, (sandy) wrote:

Carl McCarty wrote in message

I am curious- did you find this material at Wal-Mart also?
Thanks, Carl McCarty


Yep....Walmart! I'd really just about decided to buy some
dacron...but when I wandered through the fabric section of Walmart, I
found this stuff. At $1/yd it's worth it just for the practice....but
it looks good. Really curious to see how it all works out. It's
really strong (one edge of the fabric was imperfect and "ribboned". I
couldn't tear these small ribbons), you can't blow through it, I've
tried stretching it and can't notice stretch, and you can melt it with
a match. Clerk had no idea what kind of fabric it was. I gathered
that they get all sorts of seconds, rejects, etc. Looking forward to
raising our bright yellow sail.

By the way....Any suggestions for "rings" to connect it to mast &
boom? Hubby wants to just use some twine. I'm looking at some
plastic shower rings that we've had stored away forever (and thinking
of putting in grommets to hold rings). Any other suggestions? (Our
mast & boom will be aluminum tubes). Thanks!

Sandy

Sandy

Having used a "sail in mast-groove" concoction quite successfully for
a land yacht, something similar might be arranged for a small boat
with an aluminum mast by fixing aluminum curtain rail to the mast rear
surface. The curtain rollers are smooth running, as I recall.

Brian W

sailmaking questions
 

On 23 Feb 2004 04:45:57 -0800, (sandy) wrote:

Carl McCarty wrote in message

I am curious- did you find this material at Wal-Mart also?
Thanks, Carl McCarty


Yep....Walmart! I'd really just about decided to buy some
dacron...but when I wandered through the fabric section of Walmart, I
found this stuff. At $1/yd it's worth it just for the practice....but
it looks good. Really curious to see how it all works out. It's
really strong (one edge of the fabric was imperfect and "ribboned". I
couldn't tear these small ribbons), you can't blow through it, I've
tried stretching it and can't notice stretch, and you can melt it with
a match. Clerk had no idea what kind of fabric it was. I gathered
that they get all sorts of seconds, rejects, etc. Looking forward to
raising our bright yellow sail.

By the way....Any suggestions for "rings" to connect it to mast &
boom? Hubby wants to just use some twine. I'm looking at some
plastic shower rings that we've had stored away forever (and thinking
of putting in grommets to hold rings). Any other suggestions? (Our
mast & boom will be aluminum tubes). Thanks!

Sew in sleeves to go over the spars that need attachment. Make the
boom loosefooted, reinforcing tack and clew.

There is no real reason to lace the sail to the boom.




Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Never eat more in a single day than your head weighs." --Jim Harrison

sailmaking questions
 

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:47:37 -0800, "Steve" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Correction:

This line should read " Modern sail fabrics CAN'T cope with this slight bias
stretching and with wrinkle. "

will wrinkle.... G

Sorry. reminds me of a story about a news articel about an old soldier
who had died. He was described a a "battle scared veteran" in the
paper. When asked to reprint, it came out "Bottle scarred veteran" G
************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

sailmaking questions
 

On 23 Feb 2004 04:45:57 -0800, (sandy) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Ok. No expert. BU here are some tips that I have not seen covered.

Watch out stretch. Cloth stretches most at the diagonal of the weave.
This should be accounted for when cutting the cloth. Borders should be
as close as possible to following the thread, or well-bordered. You
may know this from other sewing

My concern with the cloth that you have is sunlight. If it's some sort
of seconds sail-shade stuff, then you are on a winner.

You can cut sails from a single piece of cloth, and many aboat has
hapily been sailed with a sheet! G But sails are cut to have shape.
This allows better sailing, especially upwind. They are cut to imitate
a wing shape, as much as possible, when seen by the wind, with the
complication of a changing width of the sail as you get higher. They
are also cut to give some "belly" for more downwind work. Have a look
at a multi-segment beachball to see how a round shape can be made from
flat panels.

If you plan to use curtain rings for holding ghe sail, they had better
be strong ones. I am not sure what you are thinking of, but there can
be quite a bit of force at points holding a sail in place. Don't like
the plastic ones for this.

Just a question. Is the mast unstayed? If you have rings around it, it
will have to be. Believe me, I ask this because I am the sort of
person who would overlook just such a thing in the process of work.
G

Carl McCarty wrote in message

I am curious- did you find this material at Wal-Mart also?
Thanks, Carl McCarty


Yep....Walmart! I'd really just about decided to buy some
dacron...but when I wandered through the fabric section of Walmart, I
found this stuff. At $1/yd it's worth it just for the practice....but
it looks good. Really curious to see how it all works out. It's
really strong (one edge of the fabric was imperfect and "ribboned". I
couldn't tear these small ribbons), you can't blow through it, I've
tried stretching it and can't notice stretch, and you can melt it with
a match. Clerk had no idea what kind of fabric it was. I gathered
that they get all sorts of seconds, rejects, etc. Looking forward to
raising our bright yellow sail.

By the way....Any suggestions for "rings" to connect it to mast &
boom? Hubby wants to just use some twine. I'm looking at some
plastic shower rings that we've had stored away forever (and thinking
of putting in grommets to hold rings). Any other suggestions? (Our
mast & boom will be aluminum tubes). Thanks!

Sandy

Sandy

************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

sailmaking questions
 

Thank you everybody for your great suggestions. You're great! We've
been having a ball making "Gusto" (our self-designed 10' nesting
sailboat). Hit a few "bumps" along the way but we've already gotten
our money's worth just in the enjoyment we've had making it. Can't
wait to actually bring out the champagne!

Sandy

sailmaking questions
 

Sandy the Paleo nut says:

We've
been having a ball making "Gusto" (our self-designed 10' nesting
sailboat).

I don't recall any pictures being mentioned. There is a tradition, y'know, of
sharing these things.....

;-)

Steve

sailmaking questions
 

Stephen Baker ) writes:
Sandy the Paleo nut says:

We've
been having a ball making "Gusto" (our self-designed 10' nesting
sailboat).

I don't recall any pictures being mentioned. There is a tradition, y'know, of
sharing these things.....

;-)

If a builder of a small boat does not have the equipment to put photos on
a website, photos can be sent to www.duckworksmagazine.com to be put on
the website there along with a description. A lot of the stuff posted
there now requires a paid membership to view, but photos of small home
built bats are usually exempt and can be viewed without paying the fee.

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sailmaking questions
 

On 24 Feb 2004 12:29:05 GMT, ospam (Stephen Baker)
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Sandy the Paleo nut says:

We've
been having a ball making "Gusto" (our self-designed 10' nesting
sailboat).

I don't recall any pictures being mentioned. There is a tradition, y'know, of
sharing these things.....

Just not HERE.
************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

sailmaking questions
 

On 24 Feb 2004 04:06:09 -0800, (sandy) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

I assume from this post that you, and your life partner are building a
boat together and _enjoying_ it?

Goodness gracious! What _have_ we here? A couple of freaks? G

Do you go sailing and/or canoeing together by any chance?

sigh....looks back at many hours of warfare......

Thank you everybody for your great suggestions. You're great! We've
been having a ball making "Gusto" (our self-designed 10' nesting
sailboat). Hit a few "bumps" along the way but we've already gotten
our money's worth just in the enjoyment we've had making it. Can't
wait to actually bring out the champagne!

Sandy

************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

sailmaking questions
 

I don't recall any pictures being mentioned. There is a tradition, y'know, of sharing these things.....

;-)

Steve


Wish I had a digital camera! We HAVE been taking pictures and will
post when I get them developed. But we've had a family emergency and
working on "Gusto" is currently on hold. Will definately share
pictures later. When I first found this newsgroup I was a little wary
of posting my questions thinking that our crazy plans might have been
ridiculed. But when I read about making a boat out of soda bottles, I
figured I was in the right place!!! Thanks for all your help!

Sandy

sailmaking questions
 

if you are still looking for a way to design the sail, look up a
downloadable program called sailcut. it will give you all the details
for cutting each panel given the overall dimensions that you want the
finished product to be.

Carl McCarty wrote:

Sandy,
I am curious- did you find this material at Wal-Mart also?
Thanks, Carl McCarty

sandy wrote:

I just bought the material to make the sail for our still unfinished
10' nesting sailboat. I took another look at the material (thin
nylon) at Walmart and did find that you could readily blow air through
it and quickly decided against it. Then I found material that looks
suspiciously like real dacron sailcloth. The clerks had no idea what
it was. It's strong (I can't tear a thin sample of the cloth), it
melts with a match...and it's much thicker than the nylon material AND
you can't blow through it at all. At $1/yd, I couldn't resist it. At
that price, I figured it's worth playing with (even if it is bright,
BRIGHT yellow).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to design the sail. Hubby finally
decided that he didn't want the sprit sail and opted for a cat rig
instead. This material is 56" wide and I'm wondering if I should just
sew the panels together (using the full width of the material) or
what??? It looks like most sails use narrower panels but it seems
silly to cut the material only to resew it. Also not sure how to go
about shaping the sails. I'm thinking of keeping it simple and just
sewing the panels flat and shaping the sail somewhat by curving the
edges of the sail.

Appreciate any suggestions. Not looking for a professional
sail...just trying to do the best I can without knowing what I'm
doing.

Thanks!

Sandy




--
remove "abcde" from e-mail address to reply

"I think it would be a good idea."
Mahatma Gandhi
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Mahatma_Gandhi/ (1869 -
1948), when asked what he thought of Western civilization