Large rowboat for large family
 

Can anyone recommend a design?

I want to build a boat my wife and I can row with our whole family aboard.
It is a large family - 2 adults, 5 children (ranging from new-born twins to
8 years) and 2 dogs of 20kg each. So we need a rowing boat carrying almost
300kg of biomass plus lunch, drinks, spare clothes, towels, rain coats,
toys, outboard, first aid kit, flares, fuel, sun umbrellas, anchor, chain,
etc, etc ... That is a lot of weight but it is also a lot of feet, knees,
elbows and paws - which add up to a lot of space.

It will be a ply sharpie. I like the flat bottom for initial stability and
the ability to put a window in it (I have visions of the toddlers peering
delightedly through it at the teaming marine life below. I like the
relatively narrow waterline for efficient rowing and the avoidance of
excessive heal induced by beam seas. I like the single side-plank for ease
of construction. We don't plan to be out in bad weather but getting caught
happens to the best. The boat needs to be able to handle estuary and
coastal conditions.

John Welsford's Mollyhawk
(http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans...index.htm#mlhk) is attractive
but, I suspect a bit small. I have Carlson's design software and could
build a boat from the offsets it produces and would do if I felt capable of
getting the design compromises right. In particular the compromise of
initial stability vs excessive, sudden wave-induced heal vs efficiency under
oars needs an experienced designer's eye to my thinking and I have never
built a boat to my own design before. John thought his Walkabout design
would be perfect and he is probably right. However, the multichine
construction is more complex than I have in mind. Furthermore, as a decked
sailing and rowing design the plans are more complex (and therefore
expensive) than I need. It seams a pity to pay for the design of a
sophisticated camp-cruiser then build it without decks, centrecase, rig,
tent etc. etc.

So I am open to suggestions for a basic flat-bottomed, single sideplank
rowing sharpie, probably about 20' long.

Paul.

Large rowboat for large family
 

Gee for that size crowd you might think of a Whitehall

Large rowboat for large family
 

"Paul Squire" ) writes:

So I am open to suggestions for a basic flat-bottomed, single sideplank
rowing sharpie, probably about 20' long.

If you have Basic on your computer you can copy a free program from my
website to try different dimensions of flat bottom sharpie skiff. Go to
www.ncf.ca/~ag384/Boats.htm and scroll down until you see the skiff
program. There are two files to copy, a text file of instructions, and a
text file containing the Basic program.

Another option is to down load the Carlson Hull program, load up one of
the sharpie examples, and use the scaling feature to play with the length
and width until you get a boat that will carry your load with sufficently
shallow draft. Its at www.carlsondesign.com.

But note in the instructions to my program what Chapelle wrote about the
underwater shape of a shrarpie skiff to keep rowing from being "heavy".

I hope some of those kids are old enough to pull on an oar. :)
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Large rowboat for large family
 

I usually think of a sharpie as a sailing design.
I built a 19 ft one years ago and it sailed fast but
was hard to row. It also tended to pound quite a bit in a chop.
For rowing a big boat, and one that was flat bottomed and simple to
build, I'd lean toward a dory. Though the initial stability may be a bit
less then seems comfortable, you'd be hard pressed to roll one of these
over in most conditions.
Here are links to two photos of heavy work dories.

http://www.geocities.com/boats2build2003/300dories.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/boats2build2003/300dories2.jpg

One guy who has successfully used another type of dory for rowing is
Mick Bird. If fact he has rowed across a couple of oceans with his.
I realise that his boat is custom designed for a very specific purpose,
but it may bea starting place for ideas.
http://www.goals.com/transrow/

Mabey you can find a stretched out version of a dory in plywood
somewhere like from John Gardner or somebody. Then again, why not build
a real one using planks instead of plywood? The real ones are still
being made from white pine.
Of course anything as large as you are looking for would have to
be trailered rather than car topped. As soon as you get big enough to
trailer, the weight becomes somewhat less of an issue and my thought
would be to go toward beefy rather than light weight.


SteveJ

Paul Squire wrote:
Can anyone recommend a design?

I want to build a boat my wife and I can row with our whole family aboard.
It is a large family - 2 adults, 5 children (ranging from new-born twins to
8 years) and 2 dogs of 20kg each. So we need a rowing boat carrying almost
300kg of biomass plus lunch, drinks, spare clothes, towels, rain coats,
toys, outboard, first aid kit, flares, fuel, sun umbrellas, anchor, chain,
etc, etc ... That is a lot of weight but it is also a lot of feet, knees,
elbows and paws - which add up to a lot of space.

It will be a ply sharpie. I like the flat bottom for initial stability and
the ability to put a window in it (I have visions of the toddlers peering
delightedly through it at the teaming marine life below. I like the
relatively narrow waterline for efficient rowing and the avoidance of
excessive heal induced by beam seas. I like the single side-plank for ease
of construction. We don't plan to be out in bad weather but getting caught
happens to the best. The boat needs to be able to handle estuary and
coastal conditions.

John Welsford's Mollyhawk
(http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans...index.htm#mlhk) is attractive
but, I suspect a bit small. I have Carlson's design software and could
build a boat from the offsets it produces and would do if I felt capable of
getting the design compromises right. In particular the compromise of
initial stability vs excessive, sudden wave-induced heal vs efficiency under
oars needs an experienced designer's eye to my thinking and I have never
built a boat to my own design before. John thought his Walkabout design
would be perfect and he is probably right. However, the multichine
construction is more complex than I have in mind. Furthermore, as a decked
sailing and rowing design the plans are more complex (and therefore
expensive) than I need. It seams a pity to pay for the design of a
sophisticated camp-cruiser then build it without decks, centrecase, rig,
tent etc. etc.

So I am open to suggestions for a basic flat-bottomed, single sideplank
rowing sharpie, probably about 20' long.

Paul.

Large rowboat for large family
 

let me get this straight... you're planning to row a boat that's carrying
300kg of people plus their gear?

may i suggest you reconsider and look at getting a nice little outboard or
at least an electric trolling motor..

hugh


"Paul Squire" wrote in message
...
Can anyone recommend a design?

I want to build a boat my wife and I can row with our whole family aboard.
It is a large family - 2 adults, 5 children (ranging from new-born twins
to
8 years) and 2 dogs of 20kg each. So we need a rowing boat carrying
almost
300kg of biomass plus lunch, drinks, spare clothes, towels, rain coats,
toys, outboard, first aid kit, flares, fuel, sun umbrellas, anchor, chain,
etc, etc ... That is a lot of weight but it is also a lot of feet, knees,
elbows and paws - which add up to a lot of space.

It will be a ply sharpie. I like the flat bottom for initial stability
and
the ability to put a window in it (I have visions of the toddlers peering
delightedly through it at the teaming marine life below. I like the
relatively narrow waterline for efficient rowing and the avoidance of
excessive heal induced by beam seas. I like the single side-plank for
ease
of construction. We don't plan to be out in bad weather but getting
caught
happens to the best. The boat needs to be able to handle estuary and
coastal conditions.

John Welsford's Mollyhawk
(http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans...index.htm#mlhk) is
attractive
but, I suspect a bit small. I have Carlson's design software and could
build a boat from the offsets it produces and would do if I felt capable
of
getting the design compromises right. In particular the compromise of
initial stability vs excessive, sudden wave-induced heal vs efficiency
under
oars needs an experienced designer's eye to my thinking and I have never
built a boat to my own design before. John thought his Walkabout design
would be perfect and he is probably right. However, the multichine
construction is more complex than I have in mind. Furthermore, as a
decked
sailing and rowing design the plans are more complex (and therefore
expensive) than I need. It seams a pity to pay for the design of a
sophisticated camp-cruiser then build it without decks, centrecase, rig,
tent etc. etc.

So I am open to suggestions for a basic flat-bottomed, single sideplank
rowing sharpie, probably about 20' long.

Paul.

Large rowboat for large family
 

hugh says:

let me get this straight... you're planning to row a boat that's carrying
300kg of people plus their gear?

That's only 3 reasonable adults plus soakage. ;-)
Not that painful with a good Whitehall-style boat beneath you. With a
flattie.....

Large rowboat for large family
 

Almost half of that weight will be rowing (i.e.; both adults). I'm certain
it's feasible in the right boat.

"hugh" wrote in message
...
let me get this straight... you're planning to row a boat that's carrying
300kg of people plus their gear?

may i suggest you reconsider and look at getting a nice little outboard or
at least an electric trolling motor..

hugh

Large rowboat for large family
 

Too complex to build.

"Brian Combs" wrote in message
...
Gee for that size crowd you might think of a Whitehall

Large rowboat for large family
 

Are unreasonable adults heavier or lighter?
;-)

"Stephen Baker" wrote
hugh says:
let me get this straight... you're planning to row a boat that's carrying
300kg of people plus their gear?

That's only 3 reasonable adults plus soakage. ;-)
Not that painful with a good Whitehall-style boat beneath you. With a
flattie.....

Large rowboat for large family
 

No... it's 2 adults, 5 kids, two dogs, plus a long list of gear. that's what
he said in the original post. there's no way in the world that will all fit
in a 17' whitehall style rowboat. to have a narrow boat carry that lot
you'd need 20+ feet, or a shorter boat with a big beam. in either case,
rowing is going to be a LOT of work, especially since he wants a boat that
can deal with potentially rough coastal conditions. you're not getting me
off any coast i know with 7 people and 2 dogs and a bunch of gear in any
whitehall style boat i've ever seen.....

hugh


"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
hugh says:

let me get this straight... you're planning to row a boat that's carrying
300kg of people plus their gear?

That's only 3 reasonable adults plus soakage. ;-)
Not that painful with a good Whitehall-style boat beneath you. With a
flattie.....

Large rowboat for large family
 

Paul Squire asks with a smile:

Are unreasonable adults heavier or lighter?
;-)

Heavier - they carry too much baggage and have large chips on their shoulders.
;-)

Large rowboat for large family
 

Hugh says:

No... it's 2 adults, 5 kids, two dogs, plus a long list of gear. that's what
he said in the original post.

Yup. I was really just mentally totting up the weight and equating it to
multiples of easily-imagined weight units ;-)

17ft does sound small, but 20 feet should do it. Rowing that weight is not
that painfull with two grown folks doing the work. I have been quite happy
rowing my sister and two grown children around in an 18' whitehall-type boat.
Adding another adult and two small kids shouldn't be too bad if the other adult
is working too.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

Large rowboat for large family
 

"Paul Squire" ) writes:
Almost half of that weight will be rowing (i.e.; both adults). I'm certain
it's feasible in the right boat.

not so sure about that.
one hand for the boat.
one hand for yourself.
one hand for the kids.
one hand for the dog.

I think it's feasible if the kids row. One of those situations where a
large family is actually an asset, like farming.

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Large rowboat for large family
 

Paul,

You might look at Phil Bolger's "Big Dory".

Ford Walton

Large rowboat for large family
 

I grew up here in Hawaii on a canal that lead to the ocean in my
backyard. I had 5 siblings so a total of 6 kids. My dad in his 20 feet
plywood Grand Banks Dory would row the lot of us the 3 miles to the
beach on the weekends. Sometimes he'd head out the mouth of the canal
into the open Pacific Ocean and row to the nearby small offshore islands
so we could explore. Beauty of Dories besides their clean lines was the
ease of rowing, and the inherent stability of the design, the more weigh
in the boat the more stable it became. My vote goes to the Grand Banks
style Dory.

Spy in Hawaii

Large rowboat for large family
 

the "Big Dory" design says it is designed for 1-3 adults, and if you look at
the plans you'll see that there's no way you'll get 2 adults, 5 kids, two
dogs, and a long list of gear into that boat. well, as i said before - no
way that you could get all that gear in and still consider it safe on
coastal waters..

hugh


"Ford and Mary Ann Walton" wrote in message
...
Paul,

You might look at Phil Bolger's "Big Dory".

Ford Walton

Large rowboat for large family
 

I agree with Steve,
If you want to carry a large load and still row yourself around then the
dory design is most appropriate. Dories come in many shapes and sizes but
the predominate feature about them seems to be their seaworthiness. For
your requirements a tradional "banks style" dory would do the job. John
Gardner(echoing steve again) has a book entirely devoted to them called "The
Dory Book", complete with history and "how to" as well as plans for more
than a dozen different kinds. His other works also contain dory plans, some
reworked, which offer alternatives such as motor wells(for outboards) or
surfboats capable of beach launching. In his works he writes that all the
dories can be built using plywood as a substitute for the traditional white
pine. By the way...a dory in the 20 foot catagory is a very large boat to
row singlehanded.
Another alternative to Gardner would be a design by Ian Oughtred. He
designed a dory called "John Dory" out of plywood. It is 18'-6" OAL and
about 4'-6" beam. It incorporates a motorwell and is designed to row or sail
as well. With a small sacrafice in size you can have it all. I think
"Wooden Boat publications" sells the plans. I have a personal set that I
plan to use one day..but I can give you details from them if you want. If
you go with Oughtred buy his book on plywood boatbuilding too. Lots of pics
and usefull tips for building plywood lapstrake.

Regards ,Mike Brannon
"stevej" wrote in message
...
I usually think of a sharpie as a sailing design.
I built a 19 ft one years ago and it sailed fast but
was hard to row. It also tended to pound quite a bit in a chop.
For rowing a big boat, and one that was flat bottomed and simple to
build, I'd lean toward a dory. Though the initial stability may be a bit
less then seems comfortable, you'd be hard pressed to roll one of these
over in most conditions.
Here are links to two photos of heavy work dories.

http://www.geocities.com/boats2build2003/300dories.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/boats2build2003/300dories2.jpg

One guy who has successfully used another type of dory for rowing is
Mick Bird. If fact he has rowed across a couple of oceans with his.
I realise that his boat is custom designed for a very specific purpose,
but it may bea starting place for ideas.
http://www.goals.com/transrow/

Mabey you can find a stretched out version of a dory in plywood
somewhere like from John Gardner or somebody. Then again, why not build
a real one using planks instead of plywood? The real ones are still
being made from white pine.
Of course anything as large as you are looking for would have to
be trailered rather than car topped. As soon as you get big enough to
trailer, the weight becomes somewhat less of an issue and my thought
would be to go toward beefy rather than light weight.


SteveJ

Paul Squire wrote:
Can anyone recommend a design?

I want to build a boat my wife and I can row with our whole family
aboard.
It is a large family - 2 adults, 5 children (ranging from new-born twins
to
8 years) and 2 dogs of 20kg each. So we need a rowing boat carrying
almost
300kg of biomass plus lunch, drinks, spare clothes, towels, rain coats,
toys, outboard, first aid kit, flares, fuel, sun umbrellas, anchor,
chain,
etc, etc ... That is a lot of weight but it is also a lot of feet,
knees,
elbows and paws - which add up to a lot of space.

It will be a ply sharpie. I like the flat bottom for initial stability
and
the ability to put a window in it (I have visions of the toddlers
peering
delightedly through it at the teaming marine life below. I like the
relatively narrow waterline for efficient rowing and the avoidance of
excessive heal induced by beam seas. I like the single side-plank for
ease
of construction. We don't plan to be out in bad weather but getting
caught
happens to the best. The boat needs to be able to handle estuary and
coastal conditions.

John Welsford's Mollyhawk
(http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans...index.htm#mlhk) is
attractive
but, I suspect a bit small. I have Carlson's design software and could
build a boat from the offsets it produces and would do if I felt capable
of
getting the design compromises right. In particular the compromise of
initial stability vs excessive, sudden wave-induced heal vs efficiency
under
oars needs an experienced designer's eye to my thinking and I have never
built a boat to my own design before. John thought his Walkabout design
would be perfect and he is probably right. However, the multichine
construction is more complex than I have in mind. Furthermore, as a
decked
sailing and rowing design the plans are more complex (and therefore
expensive) than I need. It seams a pity to pay for the design of a
sophisticated camp-cruiser then build it without decks, centrecase, rig,
tent etc. etc.

So I am open to suggestions for a basic flat-bottomed, single sideplank
rowing sharpie, probably about 20' long.

Paul.

Large rowboat for large family
 

"Paul Squire" wrote in message
...
Almost half of that weight will be rowing (i.e.; both adults). I'm
certain
it's feasible in the right boat.

"hugh" wrote in message
...
let me get this straight... you're planning to row a boat that's
carrying
300kg of people plus their gear?

may i suggest you reconsider and look at getting a nice little outboard
or
at least an electric trolling motor..

hugh

Here is a link to large "bank style dory" The claim is "row-power-sail."
It's a 19 footer.
he http://www.spirainternational.com/hd_alas.html

Large rowboat for large family
 

Opps! try this link too. This page shows four average sized chaps hauling
in some nets into their dory....wondering if that equals weight of
dogs+family+whatever. Just another idea...not pitching a sale here..good
luck, Mike

Here : http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_gbdories.html

Large rowboat for large family
 

the tradeoff between the simple banks dory and flatiron skiff is draft and
floor space. the dory sinks deeper in the water because of its narrow
bottom and transom. you can't put a motor on a dory and get it to plane.
You may not be able to run a dory up on a beach and step out without
getting your feet wet.

I don't know how the dory and skiff compare on the amount of wetted
surface friction which is what determines the energy needed to row them at
the same speed. The free skiff program on my website computes wetted
surface so it can be used to compare the two. (A skiff is a dory with a
wider bottom and transom. Some of the rocker on a dory is removed by
shaping the bottom plank. Its described in the instructions for the
computer program.)

"Mike Brannon" ) writes:
Opps! try this link too. This page shows four average sized chaps hauling
in some nets into their dory....wondering if that equals weight of
dogs+family+whatever. Just another idea...not pitching a sale here..good
luck, Mike

Here : http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_gbdories.html




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homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned