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Which teak seam calk?
Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on
the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60 cartriges of caulk. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions. Does anyone have experience with either? -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which teak seam calk?
Glenn, in addition to recommendation by the boatyards in these parts, I got a
recommendation for the TDS product from the US tech support guy from Sika. Sika stopped importing a product for this application. The TDS product didn't seem to be as messy as the polysulfide goos. When sanded you get crumbs. One option I don't recommend is graphite in epoxy. The dust stains the teak. Jim Glenn Ashmore wrote: Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60 cartriges of caulk. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions. Does anyone have experience with either? -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which teak seam calk?
Jim Conlin wrote: Glenn, in addition to recommendation by the boatyards in these parts, I got a recommendation for the TDS product from the US tech support guy from Sika. Sika stopped importing a product for this application. The TDS product didn't seem to be as messy as the polysulfide goos. When sanded you get crumbs. One option I don't recommend is graphite in epoxy. The dust stains the teak. I am leaning towards the TDS product. Epoxy/graphite was eliminated in the first round. Besides being even nastier than 5200 it is just counter intuitive. Wood moves. Epoxy doesn't. That seems like a sure setup for cracks. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which teak seam calk?
Glenn,
I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape on the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When I did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA. Today, most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive, but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck! Steve "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04... Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60 cartriges of caulk. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions. Does anyone have experience with either? -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which teak seam calk?
If you can find some installed examples to check the finish of the
seams, directly, you may find differences significant to you. I can't speak directly to your question, but I have found a great variety of appearance in caulks after cure - beyond the obvious coloration. Rufus Glenn Ashmore wrote: Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60 cartriges of caulk. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions. Does anyone have experience with either? |
Which teak seam calk?
"Steve Lusardi" Today, most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive, but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. SFWIW, I have a manual gun that uses "sausages". Does a great job. Night and day difference between it and the typical DIY, 10.5 oz gun. HTH -- Lew S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures |
Which teak seam calk?
Interesting comment about tape on the bottom of the joint. This is
something that is common to all sealing / jointing, but is overlooked by most people. Consider a joint with two sides and bottom. Something like a tongue and groove. Sealant can withstand say 30% extension before failure. If the joint has a non-stick "bottom" like tape or backing rod, then as the joint expands the sealant cross section lengthens - but it also gets "narrower" to maintain it's volume. If it's stuck to the bottom of the joint it can't shrink upwards, so the top surface must contract much more than the 30 %, and it tears and the joint fails.. Sorry if this is not a clear word picture. But the essence of it is that every time you fill a three sided joint right to the bottom ( which is the intuitive way to do it) you are building in failure!! People think backing rods in joints are to save sealant and not worth worrying about. They ( or non-stick tape) are critical to a successful joint. One of my pet hobby horse topics! David "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... Glenn, I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape on the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When I did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA. Today, most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive, but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck! Steve "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04... Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60 cartriges of caulk. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions. Does anyone have experience with either? -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which teak seam calk?
I've heard a lot of good stuff about TDS' stuff. I've used 3M's product as
well with good success. Can't remember the number, but it's labeled "teak deck seam/sealer" or something obvious like that. "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04... Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60 cartriges of caulk. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions. Does anyone have experience with either? -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which teak seam calk?
Oh yea, Boatlife makes a bondbreaker cord that you should use in the bottom
of each seam. "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... Glenn, I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape on the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When I did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA. Today, most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive, but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck! Steve "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04... Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60 cartriges of caulk. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions. Does anyone have experience with either? -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which teak seam calk?
I agree about the bond breaker but not about the silicone. The TDS
caulk was recommended to me by Brooklyn Boatyard and PJ. I have a small sample of the TDS decking and it is pretty amazing. The bond is so strong that TDS doesn't even use a backing on their prefabbed decking. It is held together by the caulk only. Steve Lusardi wrote: Glenn, I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape on the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When I did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA. Today, most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive, but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck! Steve "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04... Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60 cartriges of caulk. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions. Does anyone have experience with either? -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which teak seam calk?
For what it is worth:
I'l support: Awoid silicone and use tape. With all the efford you have put into the project, don't try to save a penny on this one. (I'm no expert but I am going to re-chauck my deck this winter, so the subject definitly has my interest) Peter "Steve Lusardi" skrev i en meddelelse ... Glenn, I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape on the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When I did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA. Today, most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive, but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck! Steve |
Which teak seam calk?
"Peter S/Y Anicula" wrote in message
k... For what it is worth: I'l support: Awoid silicone and use tape. Using tape is a must. But why the aversion against silicone? I mean, it's not the ordinary silicone houshold stuff we're talking about. This stuff is specially designed for decks. I remember an article in Woodenboat about this and they where very enthousiastic about it. Meindert |
Which teak seam calk?
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04... Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60 cartriges of caulk. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions. Does anyone have experience with either? No experience with the silicones. I'd really try to find from people who have used these products for several years in tropical weather before using them (though I shudder at the thought of that much caulking - have you an air operated caulking gun or can you rent one?) I do know the 2 part polysulphides have an excellent repuation. Don't forget to use the bond breaker tape on the bottom of the seams and the appropriate primer if you use the 2 part stuff. -- Evan Gatehouse you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me ceilydh AT 3web dot net (fools the spammers) |
Which teak seam calk?
I guess I have a general aversion against silicone on boats. This is based
on experience from 20 years ago with some marine silicone products, that I didn't like. I realise that I'm probably not up to date on this subject. I'll look further in to it. Until then, forget my advise against silicone for deck seams. Peter S/Y Anicula "Meindert Sprang" skrev i en meddelelse ... "Peter S/Y Anicula" wrote in message k... For what it is worth: I'l support: Awoid silicone and use tape. Using tape is a must. But why the aversion against silicone? I mean, it's not the ordinary silicone houshold stuff we're talking about. This stuff is specially designed for decks. I remember an article in Woodenboat about this and they where very enthousiastic about it. Meindert |
Which teak seam calk?
"Peter S/Y Anicula" writes:
I guess I have a general aversion against silicone on boats. This is based on experience from 20 years ago with some marine silicone products, that I didn't like. ....But then again, nobody has even 10 years of experience of the new silicones. Glenn, having seen your boat built from the start (virtually) I would hate to see you ruin the deck with some non-proved new wonder goo when a known and long-used 2-part polysulphide would be a safe alternative. Everything I know of wooden boats tells that silicone should be kept far from wood. If you start using silicone there is no way back. There has been enough bad examples of miraculous new products failing after a few years. Your boat is a pretty big testfield for expensive failures... Pekka -- http://www.puuvene.net/ |
Which teak seam calk?
Actually the maritime Woodproducts decks that are assembled with their
silicone caulk have been used on Cabo Rico, Hinkely, PJ and Rybovitch boats for more than 12 years. I have contacts at Cabo because I have sold them several anchors. They speak very highly of it and claim that they have no reported failures. The main reason they use it however is that it requires less than half the labor of Detco or Boatlife. Pekka Huhta wrote: "Peter S/Y Anicula" writes: I guess I have a general aversion against silicone on boats. This is based on experience from 20 years ago with some marine silicone products, that I didn't like. ...But then again, nobody has even 10 years of experience of the new silicones. Glenn, having seen your boat built from the start (virtually) I would hate to see you ruin the deck with some non-proved new wonder goo when a known and long-used 2-part polysulphide would be a safe alternative. Everything I know of wooden boats tells that silicone should be kept far from wood. If you start using silicone there is no way back. There has been enough bad examples of miraculous new products failing after a few years. Your boat is a pretty big testfield for expensive failures... Pekka -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which teak seam calk?
Glenn et all
TDS has been giving sampless of decking in boat shows, but last time I spoke with them they said their caulking is not a glue to hold teak strips together, and I believe they still sell all their prefabbed decking with backing either fiberglass or plywood. Maritime has harder caulking and they sell prefabbed panels w/o backing. Both caulkings are silicone based, either one specially formulated for teak decking but actually used in other industries and have probably over 20 year life in outside conditions. I have used both and to make life more interesting I will soon come up with my own "specially formulated for teak decking" product ;-) Juha Tuomela Jupiter FL "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:PyjBb.90409$xV6.22139@lakeread04... I agree about the bond breaker but not about the silicone. The TDS caulk was recommended to me by Brooklyn Boatyard and PJ. I have a small sample of the TDS decking and it is pretty amazing. The bond is so strong that TDS doesn't even use a backing on their prefabbed decking. It is held together by the caulk only. |
Which teak seam calk?
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 12:27:37 -0500, Glenn Ashmore
wrote: Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks a Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580 Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540 Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510 Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450 Does anyone have experience with either? Glenn, We highly recommend TDS SIS 440. We did the deck of our 42-foot a few years ago. Easy to use, works great. We're very happy with it. And this is after a disastrous experience with Boatlife. Before we did the whole deck, we did the fantail with samples of a variety of products. TDS SIS-440 was the clear winner after a year of use and weather. We were prepared to pay almost anything to not have to do the job again anytime soon. So cost really wasnt a deciding factor. Performance was. Marce Spellbound |
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