Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

Hi All,

I must say I've been very impressed by the websites some of my respondents
have listed. Congradulations

OK, from a previous post, you've probably seen that I'm interested in Proas.
All sorts of designs and variations. Initially, it looks like a simple one
could be built stitch and glue. But there are some other things I'd like to
ask and share.

1) Does anyone know the chemical makeup of epoxy and fiberglass? I realize
I'll be starting conventionally, but I'm also interested in being able to
make waterproof, rock-solid glue from scratch. I know how to make an
elmer's type glue from just boiling down hooves and horns, but it's not
ultimately waterproof.

2) I'm asking this because this whole thing ties into a pet interest/hobby
I've had since my teens. How do you not only survive, but thrive if you're
dumped in a place with nothing but your own 2 hands? I started out by
learning Neolithic skills (the listing would be 3 pages long, consisting of
2-3 word phrases,) and stumbled into the Bronze Age. (Forging bronze I
haven't actually done, but it's not far from smelting copper, which is
actually easy.) Some of those skills I've actually done, others I just know
how (lack of opportunity to practice, but they're pretty simple. Doubt I
can do it? See rebuilding my own carbeurator below.) No one stranded
somewhere with me would lack for creature comforts, including spun clothes
and even paper. I thought a proa would be perfect for living in a marine
environment. It has it's own versatilities, and makes use of the natural
marine resources easier.

So if anyone's interested in that type of subject matter, I'd be happy to
share. On my end, I've got to learn conventional boat building, and adapt
it to a situation where you can't go down to the hardware store, but make it
out of tools and materials you make yourself. Even sandpaper isn't a
problem there. (After a little more thinking, I realized that I've got the
skills to add blankets, palletes, and pillows too, so it's not as rough livi
ng as you might think.)

Just a little humor... g No, I'm not trying out for that show
'Survivor'. g Sure, I'd probably come out the best fed and best living,
but the show flies in the face of a basic tenet you need to use those
skills - everybody cooperates and no one gets chased off unless they've done
something completely horrendous. Get a group of people working together,
and everyone will come out fine. That's the way it should be, in my humble
opinion.

3) I think I mentioned that I want to work/help somebody on their boat
because I've got nothing but free time and am coming back from Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome. (No, don't let the image of someone in wheelchair come to
mind. I'm far from that.) It will be a while, not an overnight recovery to
rebuild lost muscle, but I _want_ to be active, and my doctor wants me to be
too. So why not pick something that I've wanted to know about for a long
time? Please don't tell me to jog, walk, whatever. I'm not useing my mind
when I do that sort of thing, and it drives me nuts.

4) Why I want to help and learn for free has a couple aspects. If I'm
working with an individual in their back yard, they can't afford to pay me
anyway. I don't have a problem with that. I just want to learn. Secondly,
the government is looking after me while I'm getting well to the point where
I'm in great shape holding down a decent job (now now now - don't groan or
be repulsed. It could be your sister that got sick. Besides, by getting at
least some part-time work for free, you're getting your taxes back in not
having to pay someone.) While I'm on the road to recovery, I'm not allowed
to earn $200/month or more, or I loose their help.

I know some of you are screaming out there about dead-beats, and thinking
I'm one of them, but just remember it could be you or a family member who
one day goes through something debilitating that takes them years of search
to find a doctor who knows enough to set you on the road to recovery.

So please don't scream at me.

No, I don't look it. People often look at me and react with shock when they
find out the situation I'm in. I think it's because my mind didn't go, I
can speak and listen intelligently, and have enough strength to get around
and am finally reaching the point of real activity (not full-time, though.)
Could be because I still hold my head high and don't act like a hopeless
case. _I_ have hope, but hope alone isn't going to rebuild muscle or
endurance.

5) I've got an incredibly limited income. You wouldn't beleive how low.
That means I need to go work on someone else's boat until I can afford to
build my own, which will probably be at the 12th of never. So no - No boat
that I work on is mine. But at least I can take pleasure in learning and
repay with some work of my own. That's one thing the government doesn't do:
Feed your mind. It's driving me nuts.

How low? The government gives people who are anywhere from floored forever
to on the road to recovery, only enough for a roof over their head, food,
and utilities, plus maybe $100 left over for incidentals. No stitch and
glue kits for me. So I've got to turn to learning from helping others.
That low a figure should help the nay-sayers who complain about people in my
situation. You don't get rich, or even able to feed your mind or get an
education if you're in the program to help the long-term sick in this
country, no matter where you are on the scale of bottom to recovering.
Beleive me, I would love to have the strength to work full-time for pay, at
a decent job (I go out of my mind at rote jobs like McDonalds or answering
phones, being a store clerk...) and finally do OK in life.

So please don't scream at me or flame me off this NG. I really would like
to learn, and with half an electronics/computer science engineering degree,
I'm certainly willing to start with the very basics, and even though it
doesn't have bearing on Neolithic/Bronze Age skills, work my way up to the
more complex, like wiring, engines, lighting, communication, and all that we
have in this day.

(Yes, I've even worked on old-style cars, before they got too complex and
computerized for me to figure out by looking at them with a mechanic over my
shoulder, showing me what to do then having me do it. Anything '70's or
before is fair game. How many women do you know have rebuilt their own
carbeurator? I didn't even have a mechanic to show me that. Someone just
told me to pick up the kit with new gaskets and a float, unscrew the thing,
and put the new parts where they looked like they fit. Worked like a
charm...)

Please... Don't flame me or chase me away. I just want to learn from the
ground up with someone.

Sandra

Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

We might get along pretty well.

I've always liked wooden ships, and ancient tools/weapons, ever since I was
small.

;-)

Someday, I plan to have my own forge, as well as my own hand-crafted wooden
boat.

Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 03:03:15 GMT, "Zyana ~ Beu Ribe"
wrote:

I thought a proa would be perfect for living in a marine
environment. It has it's own versatilities, and makes use of the natural
marine resources easier.

The proa evolved in a neolithic environment. Glue is not a part of it.
You must add rope making to your spinning and weaving skills and learn
to join by lashing.

There are many marine environments. The proa evolved where islands are
strung out across the tropical trade winds. They can beam reach on one
tack from one island to the next. They would not replace umiaks and
kayaks in arctic waters.

For other traditional boat building techniques, trunnels (tree nails)
make good fasteners.



Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

"That idiot Leibniz, who wants to teach me about the infinitesimally small! Has he therefore forgotten that I am the wife of Frederick I? How can he imagine that I am unacquainted with my own husband?"

Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

have a look at this .... http://home.pacifier.com/~qayaq/other.htm






Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 03:03:15 GMT, "Zyana ~ Beu Ribe"
wrote:


I thought a proa would be perfect for living in a marine
environment. It has it's own versatilities, and makes use of the natural
marine resources easier.


The proa evolved in a neolithic environment. Glue is not a part of it.
You must add rope making to your spinning and weaving skills and learn
to join by lashing.

There are many marine environments. The proa evolved where islands are
strung out across the tropical trade winds. They can beam reach on one
tack from one island to the next. They would not replace umiaks and
kayaks in arctic waters.

For other traditional boat building techniques, trunnels (tree nails)
make good fasteners.



Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

"That idiot Leibniz, who wants to teach me about the infinitesimally small! Has he therefore forgotten that I am the wife of Frederick I? How can he imagine that I am unacquainted with my own husband?"

Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

Lets assume you are standing naked on the shore of an
ocean in a remote and uncivilized place hundreds or
thousands of miles from people.
To build a boat you need two things. Tools and materials.
To build a furnace and smelt your own copper would
take months and you'll need all your time to find enough
food to eat so you will have to leave that for later.
So since there are lots or different kinds of rocks lying
right at your bare toes, you decide to use stone as a material
for the tool problem with the thought that when you get a little more
settled in, you will have time to think about using metal.
For materials your choice is limited to what you have. Wood, because
there are trees, and animals because there are no people, and grasses
and other vegetation,because..well..just because it's everywhere.
You make a spear from a stick and a rock and kill a seal, mabey three or
four. Then you skin them with another rock knife or mabey a clam
shell sharpened. Then you build a long skinny boat frame that is lashed
together from animal sinew and wood which you have found on the beach.
After a month and a half of trial and error,and trying to stay fed and
warm, VOILA! INSTANT BOAT!

Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

(*Laugh*!) OK, I get the joke. =) I could return the favor by going
through point by point and explaining which technique should be used where,
once we decide on the specific locale, but in favor of saving *some*
bandwidth, I'll refrain and let people use their imaginations about two
people going "Huh-uh" to each other. =)

Seriously, though... Mentioning another interest/hobby for why proas
interest me, was just to put my interest in perspective to hopefully narrow
the field of those who might be interested in passing on info or letting me
work on their boat.

You didn't mention what to use as a hardener for resin. g Tree resin
would probably be the easiest to get. That's just another curiosity that
would make the job easier than lashing the whole thing together from rope
and cord, but would still be readily available.

Have fun, All! =)

Sandra

"stevej" wrote in message
...
Lets assume you are standing naked on the shore of an
ocean in a remote and uncivilized place hundreds or
thousands of miles from people.
To build a boat you need two things. Tools and materials.
To build a furnace and smelt your own copper would
take months and you'll need all your time to find enough
food to eat so you will have to leave that for later.
So since there are lots or different kinds of rocks lying
right at your bare toes, you decide to use stone as a material
for the tool problem with the thought that when you get a little more
settled in, you will have time to think about using metal.
For materials your choice is limited to what you have. Wood, because
there are trees, and animals because there are no people, and grasses
and other vegetation,because..well..just because it's everywhere.
You make a spear from a stick and a rock and kill a seal, mabey three or
four. Then you skin them with another rock knife or mabey a clam
shell sharpened. Then you build a long skinny boat frame that is lashed
together from animal sinew and wood which you have found on the beach.
After a month and a half of trial and error,and trying to stay fed and
warm, VOILA! INSTANT BOAT!

Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

You could consider building this boat for practice and then selling
it? You need only a couple of heafty axes, some iron and wooden wedges
and some large fresh oak logs to build it. OK, you'll need some
sheep's wool and pine tar too for chalking.

http://www.algonet.se/~gwarner/canoe.htm

Regards, Gerrie

Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 04:59:33 GMT, "Zyana ~ Beu Ribe"
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!: \\but you were asking about making epoxy
from scratch.

I suggets you confine your trolling to catchinf fish for survival.

(*Laugh*!) OK, I get the joke. =) I could return the favor by going
through point by point and explaining which technique should be used where,


************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Imagine a _world_ where Nature's lights are obscured
by man's. There would be nowhere to go.
Or wait a while. Then you won't have to imagine.

Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to spot the troll.

p.s. Check the original posters history.

"Old Nick" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 04:59:33 GMT, "Zyana ~ Beu Ribe"
wrote something
......and in reply I say!: \\but you were asking about making epoxy
from scratch.

I suggets you confine your trolling to catchinf fish for survival.

(*Laugh*!) OK, I get the joke. =) I could return the favor by going
through point by point and explaining which technique should be used
where,


************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Imagine a _world_ where Nature's lights are obscured
by man's. There would be nowhere to go.
Or wait a while. Then you won't have to imagine.

Please don't chase me away (Apprentice person)
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 01:27:52 GMT, "Ron Alexander"
wrote:

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to spot the troll.

p.s. Check the original posters history.
Hmmm.
Just did.
She's recovering from an illness.
She has an interest (maybe just casual) in proas.
She hasn't posted much else that I can find.
Where's the troll?

Kiyu



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