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Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead?

If you want to do this, I suggest you start by finding one you'd like to
own. Then you can take all the time you need to learn how to do it
right, have the use of the boat once you get it past a certain
point...and then decide whether to keep it or sell it and look for
another one to restore.

Thanks Peggy. I'm going to pass this thread to my cousin. It sounds
like it would be a fun venture, but I myself don't have the finances,
nor the location to pursue this notion.

I'm in S. IL. which the only good piece of water for a big cruiser is
Carlyle Lake and thats pretty small for these types of boats. I've got
an 18 ft Chris Craft runabout, and that pretty well does it for me. I
used to have a 27 ft, Chris Craft Cavalier but the old wood hull was
too much for me to keep up with. I found out that the bigger the boat,
takes the bigger the pocket! LOL!

Jerry is down on the Mississippi though, and he's been asking some
questions, and I thought I'd post here to get a mild summary.

You made some excellent points!

Tim

Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead?

I restore/rebuild classic wood boats for customers. I've been at it for
about 10 years but over the past 40 years have built from scratch numerous
wood boats.

Yes there is good money to be made doing this work if you have space for
several boats at a time and a separate paint booth. You can not do one at a
time and shut the shop down until paint dried or glue sets, you need to be
working on the next boat while these things occur on the first boat.

The most important part is a solid contract that requires a deposit before
you begin work and allows for the customer to "escape" from the contract by
paying for the work to date in the event a major and expensive problem is
found as you dig into the boat. Include sufficient money in the deposit so
that you will not be out the cost of materials and work performed before the
major problem was found. Tackle potential problem areas first if possible.
Very few customers will pay you the money they owe you then take their boat
to the local landfill There is almost always something hidden that could
not be included in the initial estimate because it was not visible. If the
customer exercises the "escape" clause then there needs to be a enforceable
agreement concerning how soon the customer has to remove the boat from your
premises before you cut it up for fire wood. The best of customer
intentions fall apart when a major expense is uncovered and they decide not
to proceed, without an agreement about removal, you end up storing it
forever thinking he'll be there tomorrow! Then years later when you finally
dispose of it, the owner shows up the next day with his lawyer! With a
written agreement and a register letter that has a verification of receipt
returned to you, you will lessen your obligations to store it for excessive
periods.

A daily storage rate must be part of the original contract that stands out
clearly and the customer initials to signify that he has read and
understands the terms and risks of not picking up his boat within X-Number
of days after completion or after determining that work is to be stopped.

Until you move into volume business you'll not buy materials at volume
prices. Your start up profits will be somewhat low in order to remain
competitive. Until you "hone" your skills and are able to buy in quantities
that qualify for good discounts you will be working somewhat "cheap" but
then again you are in the learning curve of the business and can not demand
the rates and earnings of an old pro.

There is great satisfaction when you transform a rotted out piece of junk
into a beautify collectors item.

You can not do a perfect job overtime and you must learn to correct flaws.

Sometimes when a boat clearly needs a new bottom, the customer will reject
that need and only want you to put on new sides and decks. Give him benefit
of your knowledge that it will be a lot more costly to put on a new bottom
after the sides are already in place. Remember that the customer is always
right and what he wants is what you need to do AFTER advising him of the
consequences. I have had experiences where this occurred and the customer
then sold the boat. The new owner then brings the boat in for a new bottom,
but at that point the bottom is much more expensive that it could have been
initially. But after all, that's what I'm here for, to earn money doing the
work customers want.

Find a good supplier for fasteners, some will give you a start up hand by
allowing minor initial discounts which improve if you become a repeat
customer.

Would you plan to outsource the seats? That adds significantly to your cost
of a rebuild. The seats need to be redone and in place when you return the
boat to the customer, it provides an impressive finishing touch. I have had
to purchase 2 industrial sewing machines and learn to do upholstery work.
Here again a supplier relationship is essential.

Would you plan to sand blast and repaint the trailer? It makes a restored
boat look a lot better than a rusted trailer with chipped paint and worn out
tires, an inoperative tongue jack and inoperative winch. You'll need to
find a sand blasting company and a source for trailer tire purchases and
mounting. Inspect and repack the trailer wheel bearings. Advise the
customer if the bearings and seals are defective. Include on the contract
just what work the customer wants you to do to his trailer.

You will want to devise a method to turn boats over when replacing the
bottom, at least on modest sized boats. You can not count on 6 good friends
coming to your shop overtime you need to turn a boat or you will be wasting
valuable time.

I would not get a Sales Tax Number initially, this will only force you to
file quarterly tax returns, even though some quitters you turned out no
work. A Sales Tax Number is sometimes required by supplier to prove that
you are actually in business and deserve a discount, so you will take your
"lumps" there but that beats the quarterly returns.

I promise to have the boat done when it is finished. I never know exactly
what hidden problems could affect a schedule so I don't make wild time
estimates that I may be unable to keep and irritate a customer, nor do I
drag my feet.

I provide prospective customers with referrals to previous customers with
their permission.

Most of all.... As they say, "Don't quit your day job" until you can no
longer afford to go to it and are earning enough for health care insurance
and a retirement plan.

It is a great vocation and requires skill, business management, dedication,
long hours initially, and resourcefulness. But it is worth it.

Don Dando

wrote in message
ups.com...
I suppose what I'm asking is my cousin, (an electrical engineer for a
major auto company), is getting tired of the "lunch bucket" job, and is
really addicted to boats. Sounds good so far, andyhow, he's wanting not
necessarily to quit his job but look into a paying hobby. He looks on
ebay and the like, and sees damages, or neglected cruisers going for
what sems to be a song. and is thinking of setting up a business for
not necessarily restoring but totally rebuilding boats. This is done
with about anything on the market today, from computers to major
aircraft. He saw a charity auction sell a 36 foot Chris Craft
(fiberglass) Cruiser for about $400.00 which was rather neglected, but
seemed to have a sound hull. He's thought of totally disasembling the
boat, putting in new, modern refinements re wiring, re-gelling,
re-painting, re brightening or replacing the hardware, overhaulling the
twin GM's etc, and he thinks he can do this..resell... put into show
room condition....... and make a profit.

I told him I thought it was pretty risky, because auto customizers
usually can't sell a car for more than they have in it. Well, I
suppose some can but I'm sure many can't.

Does anybody do this as a professional company?

Tim

Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead?

instead of something that looks like the inside of a refrigerator or a fiberglass showerstall with upholstered seats.

Or having an interior that looks like a cheap fishing camper...

Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead?

Thanks Don, that was excellent! good thoughts to remember. I can tell
just from your writing that you have experience and have at one time or
another graduated from the "school of hard knocks"

Jerry isn't looking to do work for customers, however. He's wanting to
buy good hull boats re-working and re-selling. So he can avoid a lot
of "customer problems" that you have mentioned. I know what it's like
in the auto-electric business to give somebody a quote...sink a lot of
money in parts& labor, just to hae them abandon it and leave it for me
to take up shelf space, THEN come back a year later wanting me hand it
over etc.

"OR" wanting me to "fix it as cheap as possible" then come back a few
months later complaining that it didn't work anymore , and hearing "you
just REBUILT that a a few months ago!"

Never again!

It didn't take long to

Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead?

Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Nov 26, 4:51 am).

If you buy a fixer boat you are cutting out the money lender. Instead
of making payments to a bank you are making the payment to a materials
supplier at your own pace and as your dragon hoard allows. This
assumes you have a dry place to work and neighbors who don't mind the
smoke and roar and racket and that you don't mind being exposed to
carcinogens and being filthy and broke and bone weary for years at a
time. Not that I regret a minute of it except the fiberglass layup
part.
I believe some people could conceivably make money doing what you
propose but then those type of people would probably make money doing
anything and lot's more of it doing something else besides boat
fixing. Good luck and happy sailing or whatever.

LOL! I like that part about the "dragon hoard"

Thanks!

Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead?

The question" Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead"
Yes if you know the boat inside out your labor is free and the equipment and
material do not cost you much and have the cash money to do it. All your
time, effort and material should be under the current value of the
refurbished boat. Otherwise it become a work of love and passion.
I am just returning from a Sailboats shopping trip in Eastern United States.
Over there I have learned that some people are buying sailboats in lot in
the United Stated.
They bring them into Canada cosmetically fixe them and sale them with a
profit.
Conversely, If you buy with the intent to fixe a boat and keep it for
yourself for years to come it becomes another story.
One of the classic financial case study used at most university is to find
out if it is worth it to refurbish a 30 -40 years old ferry boat versus
investing in a new one. The evaluation model used is called the present
value. It computes all known costs, (refurbishing, borrowing,
operating,maintenance, insurance and monetary gain) and project the value
over a period of time in the future and bring it back to today's value.
Then there are always the things that no one can evaluate with exactness.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Nov 26, 4:51 am).

If you buy a fixer boat you are cutting out the money lender. Instead
of making payments to a bank you are making the payment to a materials
supplier at your own pace and as your dragon hoard allows. This
assumes you have a dry place to work and neighbors who don't mind the
smoke and roar and racket and that you don't mind being exposed to
carcinogens and being filthy and broke and bone weary for years at a
time. Not that I regret a minute of it except the fiberglass layup
part.
I believe some people could conceivably make money doing what you
propose but then those type of people would probably make money doing
anything and lot's more of it doing something else besides boat
fixing. Good luck and happy sailing or whatever.

LOL! I like that part about the "dragon hoard"

Thanks!

Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead?

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:44:18 GMT, "Don Dando"
wrote:

Mr. Dando,

I've done runabout restoration for about 25 years. I enjoyed your
reply regarding making money doing restoration on rec.boats.building.

I would like your permission to post it on the Wooden Boat mag forum.
there is a similar thread running there.

Thanks.

pcf

Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead?

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:44:18 GMT, "Don Dando"
Sorry.
If you wish to reply by mail, send to username, pcford and domain name
criterionweb.com

Is it possible to rebuild boats and come out ahead?