After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

As many of you know, we've been working for the last 2+ years
on Delilah, our 1958 22' Chris-Craft. She still hasn't seen the water
but on Saturday we started the engine for the first time. That was
a big milestone after having had the engine out, putting in some
new valves, having the carb, water pump, head, and "everything else"
all apart. She started right up and purred beautifully.

The only problem was the water pump seems to be trying to pump
in the wrong direction. It's a gear pump that drives right off the
engine (no belt). I'm guessing that the two gears in there were just
put in backwards. This should be very easy to fix.

Last week we also ordered our axels and such, so in a few weeks we
can start making a trailer. We though we'd have her in this year...but
now it really looks like NEXT year we can finally have some fun on the
water.

Thanks for all the help I've received here!!
Gary

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

Gary - can you post some pics of the project?

"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...

As many of you know, we've been working for the last 2+ years
on Delilah, our 1958 22' Chris-Craft. She still hasn't seen the water
but on Saturday we started the engine for the first time. That was
a big milestone after having had the engine out, putting in some
new valves, having the carb, water pump, head, and "everything else"
all apart. She started right up and purred beautifully.

The only problem was the water pump seems to be trying to pump
in the wrong direction. It's a gear pump that drives right off the
engine (no belt). I'm guessing that the two gears in there were just
put in backwards. This should be very easy to fix.

Last week we also ordered our axels and such, so in a few weeks we
can start making a trailer. We though we'd have her in this year...but
now it really looks like NEXT year we can finally have some fun on the
water.

Thanks for all the help I've received here!!
Gary

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

Gary, I have to admit, I haven't been paying too much attention to your
progress on the Chris Craft.

However, having had a '59 with twin 283 chev. engines, I know they can be
configured to run right or left hand.. Mine didn't have direct driven water
pump.. Strangely they were mounted on the back of the Generator which was
belt driven.

If your gear water pump is driven off the cam shaft, distributor shaft then
my next question would be wheather you have changed the timing from gear to
chain or vice/versa. This would change the rotation of the water pump, cam,
distributor/oil pump.

But, then again, you say it "starts up and purred beautifully".

I can't see where changing the gears in the pump around would change it's
rotation.

Just my thoughts, FWIW.

Steve

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

"Rob V" wrote in message
. com...
Gary - can you post some pics of the project?


Rob,

I have some pics up on Shutterfly at: http://tinyurl.com/k0kk

Tomorrow (Tues 10/28) when I get to a high speed connection I'll
add a few more including the ones from this weekend.

Thanks for asking.

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Yea, this is a single screw boat and we didn't change any rotation. The
water pump
connects right to/where the distributor does so it's run off that...and we
didn't make
any changes there. ~ We did have the water pump apart, mostly because we
wanted
so see what was in there and how it worked. Basically it's two long gears
that mesh
with each other. Seems like as they spin they create a flow. I also don't
see how
the gears could have gone in backwards - or in any other way - but logically
I'm
thinking...we took the pump apart...we didn't change anything else...and now
it pumps
but in the wrong direction....we *must* have put it together wrong. Well,
just have to
get time to get down to the shop and see.

Thanks for the comments.

Gary

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

PS:


The 25th picture here (on the second page) is of the water pump
when it's apart.

http://tinyurl.com/k0kk

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

"Gary Warner" ) writes:

... I also don't
see how
the gears could have gone in backwards - or in any other way - but logically
I'm
thinking...we took the pump apart...we didn't change anything else...and now
it pumps
but in the wrong direction....we *must* have put it together wrong. Well,
just have to
get time to get down to the shop and see.

sounds like the whole engine is running backwards. you'll find out when
the boat is launched and it goes backwards. :)

--
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homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

Wow, what a project!
Thats quite an inspirational groups of pictures you posted.
Great to see. Go for it guy!

John C.

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:41:36 -0500, "Gary Warner"
wrote:


As many of you know, we've been working for the last 2+ years
on Delilah, our 1958 22' Chris-Craft. She still hasn't seen the water
but on Saturday we started the engine for the first time. That was
a big milestone after having had the engine out, putting in some
new valves, having the carb, water pump, head, and "everything else"
all apart. She started right up and purred beautifully.

The only problem was the water pump seems to be trying to pump
in the wrong direction. It's a gear pump that drives right off the
engine (no belt). I'm guessing that the two gears in there were just
put in backwards. This should be very easy to fix.

Last week we also ordered our axels and such, so in a few weeks we
can start making a trailer. We though we'd have her in this year...but
now it really looks like NEXT year we can finally have some fun on the
water.

Thanks for all the help I've received here!!
Gary

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

Gary Warner wrote:


I have some pics up on Shutterfly at: http://tinyurl.com/k0kk

Tomorrow (Tues 10/28) when I get to a high speed connection I'll
add a few more including the ones from this weekend.

That's a great looking boat.

About the water pump, are there check valves involved? I missed most
of this thread so I don't know if the subject has already been
discussed.

Regards
Doug King

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

Gary Warner wrote:

but in the wrong direction....we *must* have put it together wrong.

That type of gear pump works by creating a low pressure area (suction)
at the center of the casing where the gears move apart. The liquid is
transported around the casing in the space between the "gear teeth" and
then displaced (discharged) as the gears mesh again on the opposite side
from the inlet.

The only thing that could have happened is that the previous owner
turned the casing around and/or plumbed the pump backwards, or you are
misinterpreting the direction of flow. Is it possible that you are
mistaken in what you believe is the correct direction of flow?

If nothing else, just go ahead and replumb the suction and discharge to
work the right way. I see it uses a collection of fittings to reverse
the direction of the piping on one side anyway ...

Rick

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

I believe Rick has it right. But if you are not clear on the concept,
you might read right through his explanation.
So here it is again: liquid is transported in the space between
the gear teeth (you knew that)**AND THE CASE**
not where the teeth mesh....

Brian W.

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:44:25 GMT, Rick
wrote:

Gary Warner wrote:

but in the wrong direction....we *must* have put it together wrong.

That type of gear pump works by creating a low pressure area (suction)
at the center of the casing where the gears move apart. The liquid is
transported around the casing in the space between the "gear teeth" and
then displaced (discharged) as the gears mesh again on the opposite side
from the inlet.

The only thing that could have happened is that the previous owner
turned the casing around and/or plumbed the pump backwards, or you are
misinterpreting the direction of flow. Is it possible that you are
mistaken in what you believe is the correct direction of flow?

If nothing else, just go ahead and replumb the suction and discharge to
work the right way. I see it uses a collection of fittings to reverse
the direction of the piping on one side anyway ...

Rick

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...


PS:


The 25th picture here (on the second page) is of the water pump
when it's apart.

http://tinyurl.com/k0kk




I looked at the water pump pictures. Is it possible you assembled the center
gear housing turned end for end? It is pretty much impossible to screw it up
any other way!
Greg

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

The way the pump is, the bottom (lower hose) should be the intake
and the top (upper hose) should be the outflow from the pump.

I think what you are saying is, "Did we put the pump on upside down?"
Hence it's pumping in the "wrong" direction. That may be a possibility.

I'll take a closer look at both how I have the pump now and the pictures
I have of it on the engine before.

Thanks for the idea.

Gary



"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
I believe Rick has it right. But if you are not clear on the concept,
you might read right through his explanation.
So here it is again: liquid is transported in the space between
the gear teeth (you knew that)**AND THE CASE**
not where the teeth mesh....

Brian W.

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:44:25 GMT, Rick
wrote:

Gary Warner wrote:

but in the wrong direction....we *must* have put it together wrong.

That type of gear pump works by creating a low pressure area (suction)
at the center of the casing where the gears move apart. The liquid is
transported around the casing in the space between the "gear teeth" and
then displaced (discharged) as the gears mesh again on the opposite side
from the inlet.

The only thing that could have happened is that the previous owner
turned the casing around and/or plumbed the pump backwards, or you are
misinterpreting the direction of flow. Is it possible that you are
mistaken in what you believe is the correct direction of flow?

If nothing else, just go ahead and replumb the suction and discharge to
work the right way. I see it uses a collection of fittings to reverse
the direction of the piping on one side anyway ...

Rick

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

"jchaplain" wrote in message
...
Wow, what a project!
Thats quite an inspirational groups of pictures you posted.
Great to see. Go for it guy!

John C.

Thanks John!

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

Gary Warner wrote:

The way the pump is, the bottom (lower hose) should be the intake
and the top (upper hose) should be the outflow from the pump.

If the housing fits as it sits, i.e. shifts sideways to the right and
the visible mating surface with the locating pin fits on the lower
portion of the gear assembly then to make the upper hose (the one with
the two 90 degree fittings) the discharge, pump rotation should be
counter clockwise as viewed ... the right side of the right gear (the
driving gear) would be moving upward toward you so that the movement of
the gears would appear to be both turning inward toward the center of
the picture.

I hope that reads more clearly than it sounds ... 8-)

It is odd that the grease cup would be covered up by the piping though.
It doesn't look like there is much room for it ...

Rick

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

"Gary Warner" wrote in message ...
"Rob V" wrote in message
. com...
Gary - can you post some pics of the project?


Rob,

I have some pics up on Shutterfly at: http://tinyurl.com/k0kk

Tomorrow (Tues 10/28) when I get to a high speed connection I'll
add a few more including the ones from this weekend.

Thanks for asking.

Gary, very nice looking boat! What part of the country are you in?

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:19:31 -0500, "Gary Warner"
wrote:


"Rob V" wrote in message
.com...
Gary - can you post some pics of the project?


Rob,

I have some pics up on Shutterfly at: http://tinyurl.com/k0kk

Tomorrow (Tues 10/28) when I get to a high speed connection I'll
add a few more including the ones from this weekend.

Thanks for asking.



SAWEET old boat Gary! Keep us posted, OK?

Donny

1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25'

www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts

http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

The only problem was the water pump seems to be trying to pump
in the wrong direction. It's a gear pump that drives right off the
engine (no belt). I'm guessing that the two gears in there were just
put in backwards. This should be very easy to fix.

It looks like the housing is installed correctly but the gear section,
the center section, is up side down. Looking down, as you are in the
25th photo, the idler gear is on the left. To change the direction of
flow, you need the idler gear on the right keeping everything else the
same. This will move the housing to the right a little. Hope the hoses
will give you enough room.

Beautiful work!!
Beautiful boat!!
Nice job fellas!!

John 3:16

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

As someone pointed out to me in another thread, I haven't put
any update on this problem here. So....

First, THANKS to all of you for suggestions, I really appreciate it.

Yesterday we found out what the problem was and fixed it. It
turns out that the gears in the pump can go in there two different
ways. One of the grears is driven by the shaft (call this gear A)
and the other (Gear B) is just driven off of Gear A.

The drive gear (A) can either be either above or below the
other (B) gear. When it's on top it pumps one way (the
way we need it to) and when on the bottom it pumps in
the other direction.

I believe the reason for this is....on twin engine boats they
use two of the same engine, but one engine rotates in the
opposite direction. With the pump set-up this way, they
can use the same pump on either engine...just flip the
gears around.

Why we made the mistake: With the way our pump
NEEDS to be, the writing that is cast into the part is
upside-down. But when we put the pump back together
we, quite naturally, figured that the writing should be
right-side-up. Not so.

If that doesn't make sense or anyone wants a picture
describing all this...send me an email and I'll mail you
an MS-Word document that has pictures (and circiles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one,
kid.)

Again, THANKS,
Gary


"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...

As many of you know, we've been working for the last 2+ years
on Delilah, our 1958 22' Chris-Craft. She still hasn't seen the water
but on Saturday we started the engine for the first time. That was
a big milestone after having had the engine out, putting in some
new valves, having the carb, water pump, head, and "everything else"
all apart. She started right up and purred beautifully.

The only problem was the water pump seems to be trying to pump
in the wrong direction. It's a gear pump that drives right off the
engine (no belt). I'm guessing that the two gears in there were just
put in backwards. This should be very easy to fix.

Last week we also ordered our axels and such, so in a few weeks we
can start making a trailer. We though we'd have her in this year...but
now it really looks like NEXT year we can finally have some fun on the
water.

Thanks for all the help I've received here!!
Gary

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

Lookin Good Gary! Who did the re-chrome. It looks really good!

I did a little boating myself this day. It was great to get away from
the dock for a change.

Capt. Frank

www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks

Gary Warner wrote:

PS:


The 25th picture here (on the second page) is of the water pump
when it's apart.

http://tinyurl.com/k0kk

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

Hey Capt., looking though the older posts are you?

http://tinyurl.com/k0kk
Yea, she's looking good. I sent out to two different companies for the
rechroming. First I tried NU-Chrome from Fall River Mass. They did an
EXCELLENT job. For the second two batches of parts I used Guild Platers
from New York. I would say that Guild Platers was very good but not quite
the quality of NU-Chrome. However, Guild still did a great looking job and
was quite a bit cheaper. This is a case where, for me, the job was good
enough and the money saved was worth it.

www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks
Frank, I checked out your site. Nice. Lots of interesting info.

Peace,
Gary



PS: In case anyone wants it:

CONTACT INFO FOR NU-CHROME:
Phone: 800-956-0005
Email:

CONTACT INFO FOR GUILD PLATERS:
Phone: 866-351-8266
Email:
Addy:
Guild Platers, Inc.
48-09 25th Avenue
Long Island City, NY 11103
(718) 728-1291 Phone
(718) 726-3283 Fax

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

Hey Gary, old posts, old Capt. Damn appropriate. Actually, my 'puter
quit so I bought a new one and re-loaded the newsgroup. I found posts
all the way back to 2000!

The chrome work I saw on your webcams http://tinyurl.com/k0kk

I will contact NU-chrome.

I dabble in the jewelry manufacturing business, among other things. A
few years ago a fellow commissioned my company to re-cast his Huckins
"Fairform Flyer" plates in gold. As I recall, the guys at the boat yard
almost drooled when they saw them.

I will be adding a "spring splash" page to my site soon.

Capt. Frank

www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks

Gary Warner wrote:
Hey Capt., looking though the older posts are you?


http://tinyurl.com/k0kk

Yea, she's looking good. I sent out to two different companies for the
rechroming. First I tried NU-Chrome from Fall River Mass. They did an
EXCELLENT job. For the second two batches of parts I used Guild Platers
from New York. I would say that Guild Platers was very good but not quite
the quality of NU-Chrome. However, Guild still did a great looking job and
was quite a bit cheaper. This is a case where, for me, the job was good
enough and the money saved was worth it.


www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks

Frank, I checked out your site. Nice. Lots of interesting info.

Peace,
Gary



PS: In case anyone wants it:

CONTACT INFO FOR NU-CHROME:
Phone: 800-956-0005
Email:

CONTACT INFO FOR GUILD PLATERS:
Phone: 866-351-8266
Email:
Addy:
Guild Platers, Inc.
48-09 25th Avenue
Long Island City, NY 11103
(718) 728-1291 Phone
(718) 726-3283 Fax

After 2.5 years we got her started this weekend...
 

"Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message
news:ZqSRb.364
The chrome work I saw on your webcams http://tinyurl.com/k0kk


Some of that was by NU-Chrome and some by Guild Platers. Both good.