|
A disturbing omen.
Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2
daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
A disturbing omen./diatribe in response
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:48:02 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote: Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. If the federal government reduces taxes, people applaud - not least me. And if the government wants to make preemptive strikes on suspect nations, then most of us tend to wave our flags. In a nutshell: the feds can spend more and 'earn' (tax) less. But states are different. Most of them are mandated to carry a balanced budget. That means they cannot spend more than they get in. For some states - like California, that voted in an expanded public education system before the economy collapsed, the costs under their control are evident: schools, police, fire service, health services. So they lay all off teachers, cops, firemen, slim out health services etc., etc. Can you blame them for getting creative on the 'income' side? We all hate taxes, but we hate reductions in state supplied services even more. Good luck to the new governor of California: hope his audit uncovers mucho waste - but even if he could make the trains run on time - he will have REAL trouble holding services without tax increases. So now you now the rest of the story - at least as relayed by an economics prof who spoke on this topic recently - from that hotbed of radical politics - Harvard (?). He also writes a regular column for the yellow press - where all the bed-wetting liberals are supposed to congregate - The New York Times (??) So sad. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
A disturbing omen.
Similar situation here in WA state. I knew I would have to register my DIY
boat before I could document it and the Dept of Licensing had given me a flyer several years earlier. It stated that I would need to provide the reciepts for material and equipment at the time of registration so they could establish the value and assess the tax on any portion of the value that hadn't already been taxed. I had a filing cabinet full of reciepts, both from WA and out of state purchases, some taxed some not taxed. Prior to submitting these, I inquired about how they wanted me to present these reciepts and was then told to just bring in copies of the reciepts for the major equipment (engine,etc). However, for some reason, I made copies of all my reciepts. I went to the DOL office with all of these. They were a bit surprised but excepted them. I had even done adding machine tapes with the material totals and sales tax totals. Then, since the boat wasn't finished or fully outfitted, we agreed on a modest value declaration. (I argued that the sales tax would be paid on any subsequent material/equipment.) From this declared value they subtacted the total of all the reciepts and I paid the tax on the difference. What makes this strange is that I paid tax on my labor and I paid tax at a rate of 9.5% (the current rate) rather than 8.5% that was in effect the previous years. (Even though I had paid sales tax on the material, they charge me 9.5% on the overall declared value of the boat and subtacted the total sales tax paid previously at 8.5%.) Had I not provided all of those reciepts, I would have paid a much more using their methods (major equip, etc.). I could have registered the boat in early stage of building, when I purchased the bare fiberglass hull. But then the boat would have been registered as built in 1995 rather than 2002. (as if model year has much to do with a DIY boat) I won't say what I paid in sales tax, but it would have paid for a new main. -- My opinion and experience. FWIW Steve s/v Good Intentions |
A disturbing omen.
"Steve" lifted the trapdoor, peered around and wrote:
I won't say what I paid in sales tax, but it would have paid for a new main. If I cook myself a meal in your State, how much tax do I need to pay before it is eaten? |
A disturbing omen.
Wow! I just found the Washington state boat registration page. You do
have to pay based on the market value. That seems a bit unfair. If they charged every do-it yourselfer for his own labor there would be a riot at the state capitol. Just after I started the boat I called the GA DOR and asked about the sales tax situation on DIY boats. The first answer I got was that I have to pay based on the market value. For me that would be about $17K! That did not seem correct so after 5 or 6 phone calls I finally reached the Commissioner's office and was told that you would only have to pay based on the completed value if you are in business and convert one of your products to personal use. I got a bit concerned that some of the invoices for big items named "DRS Marine" as the buyer so I made up invoices transferring them to me personnaly. I also asked about sales tax when I called the DNR to get information on getting a HIN assigned. Their response was "We don't talk to DOR and they don't talk to us." It seems that that is about to change. I am close enough to launch now that I believe I will go ahead and get my HIN and hope they don't go back and look at prior registrations. I will just have to pay property taxes an extra year. Steve wrote: What makes this strange is that I paid tax on my labor and I paid tax at a rate of 9.5% (the current rate) rather than 8.5% that was in effect the previous years. (Even though I had paid sales tax on the material, they charge me 9.5% on the overall declared value of the boat and subtacted the total sales tax paid previously at 8.5%.) Had I not provided all of those reciepts, I would have paid a much more using their methods (major equip, etc.). I could have registered the boat in early stage of building, when I purchased the bare fiberglass hull. But then the boat would have been registered as built in 1995 rather than 2002. (as if model year has much to do with a DIY boat) I won't say what I paid in sales tax, but it would have paid for a new main. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
A disturbing omen.
You laugh. My father was subjected to a TCMP IRS audit years ago. They asked
a lot of stupid questions, including one about our cattle. My dad told him we slaughtered two each year for meat. The auditor's face lit up... "oh, you didn't report that as income". Seems that if you buy a cow and then later eat it, you have to report the retail value of the butchered meat less the cost of the cow as income. Geez. After that, two cows yearly were killed and eaten by wolves, making them tax write-offs. Funny how people react, isn't it? "steveb" wrote in message ... "Steve" lifted the trapdoor, peered around and wrote: I won't say what I paid in sales tax, but it would have paid for a new main. If I cook myself a meal in your State, how much tax do I need to pay before it is eaten? |
A disturbing omen.
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 00:06:53 -0700, "Steve" wrote
something .......and in reply I say!: snip Scary stuff about the tax on your own labour. We have a GST in Oz, and AFAIK, that one (taxing a homebuilt as a bought commodity) has not come in yet. So any hobby that results in something that has to be registered is a gonner! Obviously, since they let you lower the value as it was unfinished, and you will (presumably) only pay tax on the _materials_ you now purchase, any boat built should be registred as soon as it's seaworthy, nor when it's halfway comfortable. I would think it would be fairer if you paid as you _sold_ the product. To say you have "bought" your own labour when you build seems a real beaut to me. (I argued that the sales tax would be paid on any subsequent material/equipment.) What makes this strange is that I paid tax on my labor and I paid tax at a rate of 9.5% (the current rate) rather than 8.5% that was in effect the previous years. (Even though I had paid sales tax on the material, they charge me 9.5% on the overall declared value of the boat and subtacted the total sales tax paid previously at 8.5%.) Had I not provided all of those reciepts, I would have paid a much more using their methods (major equip, etc.). snip I won't say what I paid in sales tax, but it would have paid for a new main. ************************************************** **************************************** Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. The rest sit around and make snide comments. Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email !! ") _/ ) ( ) _//- \__/ |
A disturbing omen.
It can be worse. In MA, when you buy a car in a private or casual sale
situation, the Registry of Motor Vehicles charges you sales tax based on the bluebook value, not the actual price you paid. You have to pay this in order to register the car and get your plates assigned or transferred. If you buy from a dealer, they will accept the invoice as the actual price and basis of payment. Jonathan Glenn Ashmore wrote: Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. |
A disturbing omen.
"Jonathan" pointed out:
In MA, when you buy a car in a private or casual sale situation, the Registry of Motor Vehicles charges you sales tax based on the bluebook value, not the actual price you paid. Washington State just went to a system very similar to that. Instead taxing a value based on Blue Book, they have their own database (of local inflated "values") that establishes the taxable amount and thus fills the tax coffers at a more desirable rate. (¯`·._.· £ãrrÿ ·._.·´¯) "Jonathan" wrote in message ... It can be worse. In MA, when you buy a car in a private or casual sale situation, the Registry of Motor Vehicles charges you sales tax based on the bluebook value, not the actual price you paid. You have to pay this in order to register the car and get your plates assigned or transferred. If you buy from a dealer, they will accept the invoice as the actual price and basis of payment. Jonathan Glenn Ashmore wrote: Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. |
A disturbing omen.
Washington State has several other ideas to generate money.
1. only licensed moorings can be used-no licenses are being granted--impound and sell all boats on non licensed moorings 2. shut down not for profit marinas because they make no profit and therefore a percentage of the profit is not available to take 3. require that all boats from other countries that are cruising in WA waters register the boat in WA and of course pay the appropriate sales tax for buying the boat in WA 4. when moving from another state they tax your car on the new price of the equivalent vehicle, even if you paid sales tax in the other state rumor has it that you will have to pay a death tax before you will be permitted to die and that you will have to pay a birth tax before delivery can proceed Brian |
A disturbing omen.
I have brought cars and boats in from out of state and I only had to show evidence that I paid sales tax equal to or more than the WA sales tax. If not, they will charge the difference (only). -- My opinion and experience. FWIW Steve s/v Good Intentions |
A disturbing omen.
Brian said:
4. when moving from another state they tax your car on the new price of the equivalent vehicle, even if you paid sales tax in the other state. Uhm, Excuse me, Not true. Per Wash Dept of Lic: " Credit is given for any sales tax paid to another state or country, if proof of the tax paid is submitted." as detailed he http://www.dol.wa.gov/vs/tr-new.htm If you paid sales tax *twice* then U got screwed and must have been "served" by one of those MANY Washington State employees who has difficulty telling the difference between their a$s and a hole in the ground. I'm not up on the current issues related to moored vessels, but I am familiar with bringing a vehicle in from out of state. (¯`·._.· £ãrrÿ ·._.·´¯) "Brian Combs" wrote in message ... Washington State has several other ideas to generate money. 1. only licensed moorings can be used-no licenses are being granted--impound and sell all boats on non licensed moorings 2. shut down not for profit marinas because they make no profit and therefore a percentage of the profit is not available to take 3. require that all boats from other countries that are cruising in WA waters register the boat in WA and of course pay the appropriate sales tax for buying the boat in WA 4. when moving from another state they tax your car on the new price of the equivalent vehicle, even if you paid sales tax in the other state rumor has it that you will have to pay a death tax before you will be permitted to die and that you will have to pay a birth tax before delivery can proceed Brian |
A disturbing omen.
Part of the source of mis-information may come from the many many
independently operated licensing offices that provide their services for a small fee. (probably owned by a near relative of an enterprising state DOL employee). -- My opinion and experience. FWIW Steve s/v Good Intentions |
A disturbing omen.
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:48:02 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote something .......and in reply I say!: Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) This was a Hyundai then? G Please see that I have also posted empathetic material at other points in the thread. ************************************************** **************************************** I walk out into the silent, lonely, country night. Man's work is nowhere evident. The canvas above is devoid of the ever-spreading fluorescent glow of ground-based light sources on dust and smoke. It is streaked with wandering cloud, lit to silver faerie floss by the moon. The stars are alive with cold, sparkling clarity. The beauty is indescribable. My **** flows frothily and noisily into the gravel at my feet. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email !! ") _/ ) ( ) _//- \__/ |
A disturbing omen.
Old Nick wrote: On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:48:02 -0400, Glenn Ashmore wrote something ......and in reply I say!: Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) This was a Hyundai then? G No. This was to REPLACE a Hyundai. I sure hope all those ships that Hyundai Heavy Indutries turns out are made of something more substantial than the stamped tin they build their cars out of. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
A disturbing omen.
So if I cut down a tree on my own land and whittle it into a boat,
I have to pay sales tax on it when I register it? When is somebody going to contest this sh-t in a court of law? SteveJ Glenn Ashmore wrote: Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. |
A disturbing omen.
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:19:10 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote something .......and in reply I say!: Ah! I still do have a memory then! I recalled your rant about the little encounter with the brick...G This was a Hyundai then? G No. This was to REPLACE a Hyundai. I sure hope all those ships that Hyundai Heavy Indutries turns out are made of something more substantial than the stamped tin they build their cars out of. ************************************************** **************************************** Whenever you have to prove to yourself that you are not something, you probably are. Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email !! ") _/ ) ( ) _//- \__/ |
A disturbing omen.
stevej lifted the trapdoor, peered around and wrote:
When is somebody going to contest this sh-t in a court of law? lol .... I don't know about the States, but here in the UK you can't actually contest a Law, in a Court of Law :) The sole purpose of the Court is to enforce the law. The democratic process is the way laws are changed. By lobbying and voting, or by direct action as in the UK "Poll Tax" steveb |
A disturbing omen.
Steveb,
We can do it both ways. Laws in the US can be challenged in court usually on constitutional grounds and we can lobby the state and federal legislators to change or repeal them. The first option is a check against the second cause I don't think our elected officials have ever repealed a law in 200 years. Ron |
A disturbing omen.
I'm not at all sure you need to do a state registration before you
document the vessel with the Feds -- you may have done more current research than I, but I think all you need to do is fill out a CG1261 as the builder. see http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm#10 Certainly back in the Dark Ages when I was building boats for a very modest living, that was all we did -- no one ever went to the state first. I know the rules have changed some, but I can't imagine say, Washburn Doughty, getting a Maine registration on one of their tugs before they delivered it.... Of course, in Massachusetts, at least, this won't help the sales tax issue -- the mass Department of Revenue follows new documentations and sends out letters. I had a good moment on that subject with regard to Swee****er -- was able to reply (from Papeete) that we had bought the boat in Rhode Island and that she was now in Tahiti and that the Massachusetts use tax probably didn't apply. In either case, sooner would be better, as you can certainly make improvements on your boat without paying sales tax on the labor. Make sure your insurance agent knows, because that may be the moment when she goes from being personal property on your homeowners insurance to being a boat requiring her own policy. Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com Glenn Ashmore wrote in message news:bv2ib.74207$sp2.30015@lakeread04... Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. |
A disturbing omen.
Some states (such as WA) still require you to display an annual state decal
but no registration number. The federal documentation process reminds you that 'your state' may require this. -- My opinion and experience. FWIW Steve s/v Good Intentions |
A disturbing omen.
That would not work in Georgia. The HIN is required for USCG
documentation and there are only two ways to get a HIN. Either register the boat as homebuilt and let the state assign a it or get a manufacturer's prefix from the USCG. If I register as a manufacturer with the USCG I will immediately be classified that way and the DOR will say I am converting a product to personal use and make me pay sales tax on the market value of the boat rather than material cost. The agent that writes my homeowner's policy had to go on oxygen when I told him about the boat. :-) Rutu has a full blown buildres risk yacht policy. All I really needed was fire and windstorm coverage but if someone manages to sneek a crane and a lowboy into the backyard and steel the boat I am covered. Also, even though I am 150 miles from any water deep enough to float it, if it sinks, I'm covered. Insurance companies are just not equipped to deal with crazy boatbuilders like me. :-) Jim Woodward wrote: I'm not at all sure you need to do a state registration before you document the vessel with the Feds -- you may have done more current research than I, but I think all you need to do is fill out a CG1261 as the builder. see http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm#10 Certainly back in the Dark Ages when I was building boats for a very modest living, that was all we did -- no one ever went to the state first. I know the rules have changed some, but I can't imagine say, Washburn Doughty, getting a Maine registration on one of their tugs before they delivered it.... Of course, in Massachusetts, at least, this won't help the sales tax issue -- the mass Department of Revenue follows new documentations and sends out letters. I had a good moment on that subject with regard to Swee****er -- was able to reply (from Papeete) that we had bought the boat in Rhode Island and that she was now in Tahiti and that the Massachusetts use tax probably didn't apply. In either case, sooner would be better, as you can certainly make improvements on your boat without paying sales tax on the labor. Make sure your insurance agent knows, because that may be the moment when she goes from being personal property on your homeowners insurance to being a boat requiring her own policy. Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com Glenn Ashmore wrote in message news:bv2ib.74207$sp2.30015@lakeread04... Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
A disturbing omen.
Insurance -- Fintry's policy very carefully does not cover her if
stolen by land when she's hauled out. 79'x 21'x 27' (total height), 150 tons, and someone's going to steal her on a trailer? If someone manages to do it, it's my loss. It ain't just you that they don't deal with intelligently. You should have told him Rutu was a tree house with a novel shape (design by Frank Lloyd Wrong)..... HIN -- MFR status. I know people who have built boats as a manufacturer, or bought boats as a dealer, and then promptly put them up for sale -- who knows, it might take years to sell at a fair price, and meanwhile, you have to demo it from time to time. Of course, you're eventually going to end up in a no-tax state, aren't you? (I should add that we'll probably end up paying Massachusetts tax for Fintry). Second possibility is to register with the USCG as a manufacturer. Does your DOR talk to the USCG? If it doesn't talk to its own state boat registry that seems unlikely. Your DOR might never notice any of it. If necessary actually have your business sell the boat to you at cost (only book cost is materials). This would be worth doing an LLC for (assuming your anchor business isn't already a separate entity). You'd want proper sets of books for the LLC, and your money going in as a loan.... In any case, do it now -- then your labor for further improvements is certainly exempt. Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com Glenn Ashmore wrote in message news:DwBib.74551$sp2.67651@lakeread04... That would not work in Georgia. The HIN is required for USCG documentation and there are only two ways to get a HIN. Either register the boat as homebuilt and let the state assign a it or get a manufacturer's prefix from the USCG. If I register as a manufacturer with the USCG I will immediately be classified that way and the DOR will say I am converting a product to personal use and make me pay sales tax on the market value of the boat rather than material cost. The agent that writes my homeowner's policy had to go on oxygen when I told him about the boat. :-) Rutu has a full blown buildres risk yacht policy. All I really needed was fire and windstorm coverage but if someone manages to sneek a crane and a lowboy into the backyard and steel the boat I am covered. Also, even though I am 150 miles from any water deep enough to float it, if it sinks, I'm covered. Insurance companies are just not equipped to deal with crazy boatbuilders like me. :-) Jim Woodward wrote: I'm not at all sure you need to do a state registration before you document the vessel with the Feds -- you may have done more current research than I, but I think all you need to do is fill out a CG1261 as the builder. see http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm#10 Certainly back in the Dark Ages when I was building boats for a very modest living, that was all we did -- no one ever went to the state first. I know the rules have changed some, but I can't imagine say, Washburn Doughty, getting a Maine registration on one of their tugs before they delivered it.... Of course, in Massachusetts, at least, this won't help the sales tax issue -- the mass Department of Revenue follows new documentations and sends out letters. I had a good moment on that subject with regard to Swee****er -- was able to reply (from Papeete) that we had bought the boat in Rhode Island and that she was now in Tahiti and that the Massachusetts use tax probably didn't apply. In either case, sooner would be better, as you can certainly make improvements on your boat without paying sales tax on the labor. Make sure your insurance agent knows, because that may be the moment when she goes from being personal property on your homeowners insurance to being a boat requiring her own policy. Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com Glenn Ashmore wrote in message news:bv2ib.74207$sp2.30015@lakeread04... Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. |
A disturbing omen.
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:49:24 +0100, steveb wrote
something .......and in reply I say!: lol. You can contest the _application_ of a law (which could easily be the **** being referred to) anytime :) People have test cases, that if they win, will set a precedent that decides how a lot of stuff is applied in future. This happens a lot with tax. It also happens with murder, if the accused can claim some new way that the process of their arrest or trial was flawed. stevej lifted the trapdoor, peered around and wrote: When is somebody going to contest this sh-t in a court of law? lol .... I don't know about the States, but here in the UK you can't actually contest a Law, in a Court of Law :) The sole purpose of the Court is to enforce the law. The democratic process is the way laws are changed. By lobbying and voting, or by direct action as in the UK "Poll Tax" steveb ************************************************** **************************************** Whenever you have to prove to yourself that you are not something, you probably are. Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email !! ") _/ ) ( ) _//- \__/ |
A disturbing omen.
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:18:04 -0700, "Steve" wrote:
Some states (such as WA) still require you to display an annual state decal but no registration number. The federal documentation process reminds you that 'your state' may require this. The BoatUS web site has a list of state requirements for documented boats that ply their waters enough to need registration. It is not always accurate. The NY listing says 30 days. However, the NY state gov site says 90 continuous days of use in NYS waters before a documented boat needs to register. Check with the relevant state as well as Boat US. Rodney Myrvaagnes Opionated old geezer Faith-based economics: It's deja voodoo all over again |
A disturbing omen.
In 1979 I left Belgium with no intentions of ever returning to live or work
there exactly for that reason. They began to charge a 33% sales tax on DIY activites like painting your house or building a boat. In my case, the tax on the estimated value of my boat was going to cost more than all the materials invested in the project! I found a loop hole and registered my 40' sailboat as a freighter but that loophloe was closed very quickly. Since I don't want to move from the US, I am left with the choice of voting for less taxes. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:bv2ib.74207$sp2.30015@lakeread04... Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
A disturbing omen.
See, there is a justification for restoring wolves to the wild after all! A
tax advantage, no less :-) Damn glad you mentioned that one. We got a real mean and hungry pack of coyotes lurking about for sure! Wonder when us hunters will start receivng a tax bill for the annual deer harvest? Fred "Keith" wrote in message ... You laugh. My father was subjected to a TCMP IRS audit years ago. They asked a lot of stupid questions, including one about our cattle. My dad told him we slaughtered two each year for meat. The auditor's face lit up... "oh, you didn't report that as income". Seems that if you buy a cow and then later eat it, you have to report the retail value of the butchered meat less the cost of the cow as income. Geez. After that, two cows yearly were killed and eaten by wolves, making them tax write-offs. Funny how people react, isn't it? "steveb" wrote in message ... "Steve" lifted the trapdoor, peered around and wrote: I won't say what I paid in sales tax, but it would have paid for a new main. If I cook myself a meal in your State, how much tax do I need to pay before it is eaten? |
A disturbing omen.
Remember who the courts get their money from. Goood luck! :-)
"stevej" wrote in message ... So if I cut down a tree on my own land and whittle it into a boat, I have to pay sales tax on it when I register it? When is somebody going to contest this sh-t in a court of law? SteveJ Glenn Ashmore wrote: Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. .... |
A disturbing omen.
Au contaire, for a PRICE they will insure the dead against further bodily
injury or a Texan against a hail storm :-) "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:DwBib.74551$sp2.67651@lakeread04... That would not work in Georgia. The HIN is required for USCG documentation and there are only two ways to get a HIN. Either register the boat as homebuilt and let the state assign a it or get a manufacturer's prefix from the USCG. If I register as a manufacturer with the USCG I will immediately be classified that way and the DOR will say I am converting a product to personal use and make me pay sales tax on the market value of the boat rather than material cost. The agent that writes my homeowner's policy had to go on oxygen when I told him about the boat. :-) Rutu has a full blown buildres risk yacht policy. All I really needed was fire and windstorm coverage but if someone manages to sneek a crane and a lowboy into the backyard and steel the boat I am covered. Also, even though I am 150 miles from any water deep enough to float it, if it sinks, I'm covered. Insurance companies are just not equipped to deal with crazy boatbuilders like me. :-) .... |
A disturbing omen.
You and the "wolf guy" need to get together, move to Massatwo****s, and kick
some A__! "Jim Woodward" wrote in message om... Insurance -- Fintry's policy very carefully does not cover her if stolen by land when she's hauled out. 79'x 21'x 27' (total height), 150 tons, and someone's going to steal her on a trailer? If someone manages to do it, it's my loss. It ain't just you that they don't deal with intelligently. You should have told him Rutu was a tree house with a novel shape (design by Frank Lloyd Wrong)..... .... |
A disturbing omen./diatribe in response
Brian Whatcott wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:48:02 -0400, Glenn Ashmore wrote: Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2 daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored nation. ;-) Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are tracking every title. What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year. Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get linked. This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented before you go to register your boat and get a HIN. If the federal government reduces taxes, people applaud - not least me. And if the government wants to make preemptive strikes on suspect nations, then most of us tend to wave our flags. In a nutshell: the feds can spend more and 'earn' (tax) less. But states are different. Most of them are mandated to carry a balanced budget. That means they cannot spend more than they get in. For some states - like California, that voted in an expanded public education system before the economy collapsed, the costs under their control are evident: schools, police, fire service, health services. So they lay all off teachers, cops, firemen, slim out health services etc., etc. Can you blame them for getting creative on the 'income' side? We all hate taxes, but we hate reductions in state supplied services even more. Good luck to the new governor of California: hope his audit uncovers mucho waste - but even if he could make the trains run on time - he will have REAL trouble holding services without tax increases. So now you now the rest of the story - at least as relayed by an economics prof who spoke on this topic recently - from that hotbed of radical politics - Harvard (?). He also writes a regular column for the yellow press - where all the bed-wetting liberals are supposed to congregate - The New York Times (??) So sad. Brian Whatcott Altus OK Every country or state gets the government it deserves.... john |
A disturbing omen./diatribe in response
I am concerned that this diatribe was just one line. I am not sure that
qualifies. Perhaps you could expand it to a minimum of 5 or 6 pages.... ;-) How true Brian |
A disturbing omen.
"Fred Williams" wrote in message . ..
You and the "wolf guy" need to get together, move to Massatwo****s, and kick some A__! Fred -- Must be my advancing age, but this went completely by me at warp speed -- who is the "wolf guy"? I already live in Milton, MA, so whose A__ needs kicking? Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com |
A disturbing omen.
On 19 Oct 2003 04:36:35 -0700, (Jim Woodward)
wrote: Must be my advancing age, but this went completely by me at warp speed -- who is the "wolf guy"? I already live in Milton, MA, so whose A__ needs kicking? Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com The wolf guy was the one who realised he was going to be taxed on capital gains between cattle value and meat value when he bought two cows and slaughtered them for eating throughout the year. Thereafter, he declared two cows a year as killed and eaten by wolves, which is a write-off... -m |
A disturbing omen.
Humm, been a while. But I seem to remember some guy managed to find a
"loophole" in his state's sales tax law by having a couple of his cattle "eaten by wolves" annually. I'd say your tax crazed polititians could use a serious "attitude adjustment." Dearly love your state, BUT I would never, ever live there! Fred "Jim Woodward" wrote in message om... "Fred Williams" wrote in message . .. You and the "wolf guy" need to get together, move to Massatwo****s, and kick some A__! Fred -- Must be my advancing age, but this went completely by me at warp speed -- who is the "wolf guy"? I already live in Milton, MA, so whose A__ needs kicking? Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com |
A disturbing omen.
sour (max camirand) ) wrote:
: The wolf guy was the one who realised he was going to be taxed on : capital gains between cattle value and meat value when he bought two : cows and slaughtered them for eating throughout the year. : Thereafter, he declared two cows a year as killed and eaten by wolves, : which is a write-off... And felony tax fraud. Look, if I want right-wing rants, I'll go to alt.politics or listen to reruns of Rush Limbaugh. Let's try and keep this on boatbuilding directly. The original posting of the thread was about how to minimize exposure to taxation in amateur boat construction. Thanks! |
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