Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

Whenever I read opinions, they tend to be given from the standpoint of "I
believe in method A as opposed to method B"

What I need to know, before embarking on an expensive and time-consuming
build project, is some good advice on the relative strength and longevity
of epoxy and cloth covered plywood hulls.

The boat I am considering is the Benford Sailing Dory (36')

My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
for listening to good advice :)

TIA

steveb

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

Ask Jay!! (and I mean Jay Benford, not Leno).

I'm not sure that Jay Benford is still around, I sure hope so. He is a great
designer of boats in that range (and larger) in various materials. He has
written some good books. (I enjoy his Small Ships book in particular)

The Cascade Yachts Classic designs were from Jay Benford.

Also he seems to be interested in the questions from those building his
designs (unlike Bruce R.).

If Jay designed his boat to be built our of ply then he should have a glass
schedule that you should follow. If you are still at the 'study plan' stage,
then send him and email and he or someone in his staff should provide you
with the glass recomendations.


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:32:45 +0100, steveb wrote:

Whenever I read opinions, they tend to be given from the standpoint of "I
believe in method A as opposed to method B"

What I need to know, before embarking on an expensive and time-consuming
build project, is some good advice on the relative strength and longevity
of epoxy and cloth covered plywood hulls.

The boat I am considering is the Benford Sailing Dory (36')

My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
for listening to good advice :)

Have you visited Sam Devlin's Web site? (www.devlinboat.com) He has
built some 40-foot-plus motor cruisers from fiberglass/plywood/epoxy
composites. His scantlings are substantial, and they look great.

- Rick Tyler

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

I have only been building for a year or so, however, we have a 30 or so year
old sailboat my dad built out of exterior A/C plywood from a magazine plan.
It seems just as strong as the day he built it, propper care seems to make
all the difference.

Personaly, I would have no worries about building a larger boat out of
plywood. I just would use quality supplies and pay attention to every
detail.

Wasnt the Navy P/T Boats from WW II made from plywood and as long as 50 to
65 feet ??

Just my 2 cents.

John

"steveb" wrote in message
...
Whenever I read opinions, they tend to be given from the standpoint of "I
believe in method A as opposed to method B"

What I need to know, before embarking on an expensive and time-consuming
build project, is some good advice on the relative strength and longevity
of epoxy and cloth covered plywood hulls.

The boat I am considering is the Benford Sailing Dory (36')

My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
for listening to good advice :)

TIA

steveb

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:12:02 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

Ask Jay!! (and I mean Jay Benford, not Leno).

I'm not sure that Jay Benford is still around, I sure hope so. He is a great
designer of boats in that range (and larger) in various materials.

Ahem............... ahem. Opinions will vary about this.

Bill Garden is supposed to have said, "They say I design character
boats. If that's true, Benford designs caricature boats."

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

I wouldn't have expected such a comment from Mr Garden.. That now lowers my
respect for him by on notch. (still a ways to go yet though).

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

esteve says:

I wouldn't have expected such a comment from Mr Garden..

I don't know - I thought it was pretty funny... I work with a designer
(Yves-Marie Tanton) about whom Bob Perry wrote an article saying "no-one who
knows Yves could ever accuse him of being conventional" or words to that
effect. They worked together for years, and Bob was definitely writing
tongue-in-cheek.

That now lowers my
respect for him by on notch. (still a ways to go yet though).

Shame - he draws a great boat. Designers should be judged by their boats, not
their thoughts.

Steve

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:25:37 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

I wouldn't have expected such a comment from Mr Garden..

Why? Boat designers have their adherents and detractors like most
anyone else in the public eye. Benford's designs, in my humble
opinion, often have a clumsy "pirate ship" look.

He was a promoter of ferrocement in the 70's.

I knew a small boat designed by Benford which had its sail plan so
badly calculated that it would not come about. (!!) A Benford pinky
schooner named the "Sunrise" was built around here (Seattle) about
twenty five years ago. Wonderful job of building; dubious design. The
builder was an old timer. He had many stories about the level of the
designing. One that I can recall is that the galley range had one foot
of clearance under a cabin structural member.

But you can't argue about taste.

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

steveb ) writes:

What I need to know, before embarking on an expensive and time-consuming
build project, is some good advice on the relative strength and longevity
of epoxy and cloth covered plywood hulls.

The boat I am considering is the Benford Sailing Dory (36')

My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
for listening to good advice :)

plywood is fine for blue water cruising. plenty of them have been built.
you have to cover the outside underwater with resin to keep the worms out.
you also have to be sure all the end grain is sealed so it doesn't soak up
water. plywood boats go together fast because they are made of big pieces.
plywood comes pre-sanded.

there are different kinds of plywood with different weights, bending
characteristics, rot resistence, and so on.

I'm not so sure a 36" dory is the best shape for a sailboat. I haven't
seen the design.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

"steveb" wrote...

My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
for listening to good advice :)

Give a call to Sam Devlin in Olympia, WA. He builds power and sail boats to
45'+, all stitch 'n' glue plywood...

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

Let me clear the air.

What I ment was that I thought Garden's comment was a bit mean-spirited.

However I don't know what the situation was when it was made. Most
professionals, while sharing a mutual respect, will often issue a good
natured 'jab' at another..

Even in these forums, we find good natured ribbing along with down right
mean spirited slander. Some deserved and some to flame.

Bottom line, I usually find something worth while in boat designs regardless
of whose work it is.. (then again, I sometimes just shake my head at a few.)

I will admit that Benfords Small Ships book is more for dreaming than for
practical DIY building. The chapter covering the STUMPET that Benford
designed for Ernest Gann was of special interest to me when I was looking
for a boat well suited to cruising the waters of the Pac.NW. I saw this
boat, in the Friday Harbor but Mr. Gann wasn't around to offer a tour ;o(

Just my thoughts, FWIW.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

James Sloan

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:33:31 GMT, "James W. Sloan"
wrote:

Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

Moderator? This is an unmoderated group on USENET.

It's sort of like real life.

I would be satisfied if "PC" would just learn to use a spellcheck. The
way things are he sounds like a written version of that "Swedish Chef"
comedy routine on TV ages ago.

Mind you, I can't speak any language as well as he handles English.
However, it would certainly lend credibility if he could just take the
care to proof his posts.

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

"James W. Sloan" wrote:

Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

James Sloan

there is no moderator.


--


Life lesson #48:

You can continue to puke long after you think you should be done......

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

P.C. Ford lifted the trapdoor, peered around and
wrote:

He was a promoter of ferrocement in the 70's.

What is wrong with correctly laid and built ferrocement hulls.

btw, his website actually states that he can no longer reccomend them. My
understanding is that the problem is the build quality, not the material.

steveb

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:31:04 +0100, steveb wrote:

P.C. Ford lifted the trapdoor, peered around and
wrote:

He was a promoter of ferrocement in the 70's.

What is wrong with correctly laid and built ferrocement hulls.

I am sure there are proper uses; the technique has been used to
created barges in the past.

There was a craze for ferrocement in the 70s. (A decade that also
favored disco, polyester clothing and bad hairdos.) Rationality
returned when it was discovered that they were not as cheap as touted,
difficult to fair, have dubious longevity and are next to impossible
to insure.

Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
 

P.C. Ford lifted the trapdoor, peered around and
wrote:

Rationality
returned when it was discovered that they were not as cheap as touted,
difficult to fair, have dubious longevity and are next to impossible
to insure.

Hmmm, the way I hear it is slightly different. They are cheap to build, but
ppl forgot that the cost of the hull is probably a third or less of the
total, and so many builds were skimped.

Also, the actual skill of many amateurs probably left a great deal to be
desired. But it isn't true that the good ones can't be insured, and they
certainly can be surveyed.

Remember you will get an awful lot of very strong boat on the cheap (if you
buy a good one) just don't expect to make money on resale. And also
remember that ferro-cememnt isn't new. It was first used, I believe, in the
mid 19th century

steveb

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:33:31 GMT, "James W. Sloan"
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

I think you may have PC (Per Corell?, who AFAIK has _not_ posted to
this thread) of the 3d boats, confused with PC Ford, (who _has_ posted
in this thread).

Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

James Sloan


************************************************** ****************************************
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
The rest sit around and make snide comments.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

Hi

"James W. Sloan" skrev i en meddelelse
ink.net...
Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

James Sloan

It work like this, that if there is a particular person you will not read, you
open your kill-filter and add the persons name, then you will not be bothered.
Now "P.C." if that is me you mean, is the founder of Cyber-Boat, that you can
find in Yahoo group and an old site on the web. The difference betewwn me and
most of this group is, that I am a boatbuilder, working from tradisional methods
and tradisional materials such as wood, and have proven that I acturly build
nice tradisional boats ,mainly in the old fasion art of lapstrake or clinker
boatbuilding;
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/
Round one mill hits found that site but don't trust the counters number.

I develobed this into computer programs before most other group members even got
their first computer, and acturly you will find most of the group is members of
one or several Cyber-Boat groups at Yahoo.
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/

Round 1000 members all together and a lot of lurkers here had the oppotunity to
download all the nice designs ,as full-scale plans of unfolded panels and
building jigs.

So the first difference is that I made "Real" boats, in the old tradision ----
you know boats out of wood. But oposed your manners, I never said that this
shuld be "better" or more fit for a boatbuilding group, as boatbuilding as a
craft shuld not belong in a museum.
Now you would think that this work both way's , but your mail just prove it
don't ; and where a lot of this group want to stay with one particular
construction method, even there are hundreds of way's to produce a boat, I work
from original tradision , master that and master the computer tools to the
extents that I need to make my own software, beside question the conservatism
that keep people making money .
Your way's isn't different from many other groups on usenet, you think this
shuld be a social game where you can shrow dirt and say the one you hit stink,
aslong as you gather another crowd , around your activity.
Well maby that will in the end , along the massive spam mails you recive from
usenet activity, be the end of usenet. ---- is usenet even worth the spam.
Now Scotty don't want to make money with a better, easyer, safer and more
amature friendly building method proving better, nicer and more modern designs
in any shape and fasion ,even modern . But that is his choice, your choice seem
to be to try make another usenetgroup into a social club so the true craftmen
that shuld profit, shuld have less value than any usenet troll being bored in
his prefered group, -------- well maby you will succes , as the ground already
is prepared and throwing dirt alway's for some, is more fun than building a
boat.
P.C.

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

Hi

"P.C." skrev i en meddelelse
k...
Hi

"James W. Sloan" skrev i en meddelelse
ink.net...
Group,

Sorry I forgot to leave the links for Cyber-Boat Yahoo groups, where you in the
Files section of each group can download a number of nice designs, there are
more groups than I list here, but a few work different than the standard Yahoo
group aproach and ask membership. Bad that Yahoo announced that you can not
have a public groupe as this one ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-...ngboat-5meter/

Then there is the original Yahoo Cyber-Boat group ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/

And as an example I here show the address of a much smaller Cyber-Boat group ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat-boatplans/

And if you wanted a true clinkerbuild easy build Pram of 2.08 meter , this group
hold that beside a few more plans , --------- all full-scale and in DWG format ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat-boatplans/

Sorry to the group that I forgot these links, ------- but for each time I
progress these groups on usenet, there alway's show up some 8 - 20 new members ;
they to can walk in and have a look, but I can not build their boats for free.
Then please remember, that Cyber-Boat was the first one to even offer full-scale
plans of the actural planks ,beside Cyber-Boat alway's been about exiting new
technikes and beautifull designs , acturly the software still prove best in a
hands-on building process, beside the 3D-H building method you se promoted for
boatbuilding, is described by F.A.A. as "a very attractive building method for
small aeroplanes" , -------- now don't say Boatbuilding is a dying craft, unless
good skills is replaced by social skills even then why didn't we stay in the
caves ? Why did we replace that stone adge with one in steel ?

P.C.
http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=3d-honeycomb

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

Old Nick ) writes:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:33:31 GMT, "James W. Sloan"
wrote something
......and in reply I say!:

I think you may have PC (Per Corell?, who AFAIK has _not_ posted to
this thread) of the 3d boats, confused with PC Ford, (who _has_ posted
in this thread).

I confuse both with a PC Cruiser which is not even a boat, or a even a Ford.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

Yes, the "PC" I mean, appears, from the spelling to be you. I've had my say
and don't intend to comment further on it.

Now "P.C." if that is me you mean, is the founder of Cyber-Boat, that you
can
find in Yahoo group and an old site on the web.

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

"James W. Sloan" wrote in message link.net...
Yes, the "PC" I mean, appears, from the spelling to be you. I've had my say
and don't intend to comment further on it.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that a couple of
years back, after some discussion off list, I turned Per down on an
idea he had about forming some kind of partnership to allow him a
platform to market in the US. Seems that starting a small boat
business is difficult where he is due to regulation, space, shop and
other things. Although this is only assumption, I was also under the
impression that he may not have had access to a shop at the time.

Although I tried to, in a respectful manner, get him to understand
that I felt there might be a place for his technology in the boat
business, however I did not see where it could do anything but slow
things down for those of us build S+T boats under 15 feet that need
very little if any interior framework as structure. That if I did go
through all the trouble of plotting, drawing, cutting and assembling
the framework he suggests, (requiring a computer, cad program, CNC
machine etc.) I could have already built the boat, using S+T
methodology (requiring a bevel, batten, saw, hammer, scribe, and
ruler). Then of course I would remove and discard that framework later
anyway. He still insists that his offset 90 degree framework creates
efficient spaces for foam in a boat, even small ones, but I want to
store more than foam. My opinion is that it would create nothing but a
mess of edges and blind spaces that would have to be dealt with or
removed. I had many more questions, but I see no need to continue the
list here. He obviously did not take well to being turned down and
soon thereafter started with the derogatory remarks and name calling,
focusing in on Payson (a friend), Bolger, and an un-named "hippie"
builder that seemed to have a great resemblance to me? That is when I
started getting into it, "on list". I used to have a lot of respect
for Per, even defended him several times, even recently after
suffering previous attacks, only to be chopped off later at the knees,
again.

For the record, I do not always suggest one type of building although
admittedly, I get involved in more conversations about stitch and tape
as that is my best suit. To the original poster, I hope this answers
your question, and as with the original poster, this is the last I
will say to this subject.
Scotty from SmallBoats.com

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

Easy BOY! Make that a respectfull, "PT" Cruiser! Them's fight'en words in
Dodge Country! :-)

"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...
Old Nick ) writes:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:33:31 GMT, "James W. Sloan"
wrote something
......and in reply I say!:

I think you may have PC (Per Corell?, who AFAIK has _not_ posted to
this thread) of the 3d boats, confused with PC Ford, (who _has_ posted
in this thread).

I confuse both with a PC Cruiser which is not even a boat, or a even a
Ford.
....

Opinion Sought - Derision Begins.....
 

Hi

"Backyard Renegade" skrev i en meddelelse
om...
"James W. Sloan" wrote in message
link.net...
Yes, the "PC" I mean, appears, from the spelling to be you. I've had my say
and don't intend to comment further on it.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that a couple of
years back, after some discussion off list, I turned Per down on an
idea he had about forming some kind of partnership to allow him a
platform to market in the US. Seems that starting a small boat
business is difficult where he is due to regulation, space, shop and
other things. Although this is only assumption, I was also under the
impression that he may not have had access to a shop at the time.


Speculation

Although I tried to, in a respectful manner, get him to understand
that I felt there might be a place for his technology in the boat
business, however I did not see where it could do anything but slow
things down for those of us build S+T boats under 15 feet that need
very little if any interior framework as structure. That if I did go
through all the trouble of plotting, drawing, cutting and assembling
the framework he suggests, (requiring a computer, cad program, CNC
machine etc.) I could have already built the boat, using S+T
methodology (requiring a bevel, batten, saw, hammer, scribe, and
ruler).

Guess you don't even read what I write, seem you have _one_ oppinion and even I
never wrote one single word about S or G , this is all you se, ------- this
also are the only angle you use to attack what you seem not even to read or try
understand, Then you start complaining that a boat a cirtain size ask a
framework AND somthing to rest the floors , and instead of realising how smart
it realy is, to have floor foundations and a strong assembly framework in one,
assembled in a few hours , cut with a simple jigsaw you continue talking about
apples while I repeatly written about roses ;

Then of course I would remove and discard that framework later
anyway.

Right you can only se one way to build a boat, and then you take the chance to
steal this guy's bread out of his mouth as this is not how you do things the
only way you can understand, now you suggest anyone to remove the framework in a
well thought design , as your boats do not carry such hippi things as floor
support , you don't make things that way , so this is wrong, --- right.

He still insists that his offset 90 degree framework creates
efficient spaces for foam in a boat, even small ones, but I want to
store more than foam.

And this you say without even understanding the concept, You alway's made boats
like this, and anyone who build different make it wrong , right. And even some
guy develob a brand new fantastic system, based upon this guy's profesional
knowleage, then boats must be made without frames as so you alway's did, right.


My opinion is that it would create nothing but a
mess of edges and blind spaces that would have to be dealt with or
removed.

So you destroy my concept to be able to throw dirt and say it will not look well
; sure after you torn out the nice fabric it will, ------- but how was it then
you wanted to make the floor supports, you know those you just torn out as you
do not understand the idear or even accept other way's.
Yet another prove that you don't even read what I say, but even vorse you don't
se the graphics I place. ---------- Why do I say so ; well, the mess you talk
about belong to the old fasion way to build that _you promote, not to the 3D-H
building method as thjat is develobed just to be free from the unfinished edges
that take all that time fiddeling. But as a boat hull made with a 3D-H assembly
framework simply is covered with panels all way round where the hell do you se
"the mess of edges and blind spaces" ? , they are not there except in your mind
, you just need another exchouse to attack , so you say you want to tear the
nice assembled framework out , --- well _that_ will make a mess, but what do
that prove that you destroy the concept only to "prove" somthing.

I had many more questions,

I have not seen any questions, but only somone that havn't read or seen what he
attack ,
Not even understood , ---------- but on the other hand maby you understand
enough to know what a new and exiting method challance , guess the next point in
what direction your protectivism about old way's and personal attack against new
and more clever way's to perform a boat plan , now listen who I been offending
by challancing the old fasion way's ;

but I see no need to continue the
list here. He obviously did not take well to being turned down and
soon thereafter started with the derogatory remarks and name calling,
focusing in on Payson (a friend), Bolger, and an un-named "hippie"
builder that seemed to have a great resemblance to me? That is when I
started getting into it, "on list". I used to have a lot of respect
for Per, even defended him several times, even recently after
suffering previous attacks, only to be chopped off later at the knees,
again.

So this is what this is acturly about, --------- no room for new and exiting
idears. You don't even care to emagine what a brand new idear will bring, it's
just a challance oposed rigid scaled boat plans. You call it an "attack" when
somone come up with a brand new concept that will help the amature builder to a
safe result, and you take it even further as you don't reconise today's craftmen
and designers, but want us all to buy the plans for constructing 70 year old
designs as these are your friends .



For the record, I do not always suggest one type of building although
admittedly, I get involved in more conversations about stitch and tape
as that is my best suit. To the original poster, I hope this answers
your question, and as with the original poster, this is the last I
will say to this subject.

Im'e not sure about that ; from the first step I took to contribuate with a
brand new building method, I have had the same protective crowd on my back.
Those people who by defination can not come up with somthing new, simply hate
you if you are clever, show skills and prove your idears. It started with some
Bolger fanatic that soon had the rest of the crowd with him, attacking the
Full-Scale plans concept, --------- the "argument" was that paper would scrink
or expand with moisture in the air, and as you remember Scotty, that crowd used
that argument to close down Cyber-Boat. Finaly there was an "argument" and even
proven wrong , this was enough to crowd together the ones protecting the
boatbuilding craft against any new Hippie idear ; NO , --------boats must be
flat bottomed and ugly, unsafe and made from the most unsuited material ,by
somone doung the design without a proper education on the behave of others
safety. Boatbuilding is not about boats but about throwing dirt on any new one
who think he is more clever than yourself , --------- isn't that what's it is
about in this forum, as soon as you challance the tradisional cheap scaled
drawings ?

Now you all know how much luck you had to close down Cyber-Boat, stealing the
bread from somons mouth , and I know you guy's well enough to know, that you had
the joy just doing that, and think you protected the dead designers and killed a
piece of the remaining proud craft. By interfering and fooling , and when you
ansver I will tell you a few slimy stories about how this made the exchouse any
criminal need to fool somone, you se to harras somone by social means , is just
as criminal as doing it fysicaly, and by chance the coverds alway's been either
trying to crowd together socialy as if that take the responsability off your
back, ------- it don't .

Anyway I over time found out that this is more an american canadian list than
anything else. And maby you americans don's value the ones that have the guts
to fight what they know is true. Social harasment never builded a world except
one that would fit in a cave, throwing dirt saying the one you hit stink. But I
am no coverd , I develobed the computer programs that your "friends" then now
can steal, and I never made boatbuilding into an art of dirt , ----------- but
ofcaurse , I am a boatbuilder not somone sitting in a safe job, using the spare
time stealing the bread from somon's else mouth and filling that sense into my
life. I acturly made boats, I realy develobed new and exiting methods and used
computer for that, I did not make boatbuilding into a social harasment
protecting any friend, Im'e no coverd and I don't hide behind somon's dirty
back,
But if I was still building boats, I would rather build one, instead om making
it deal with throwing dirt and assembling a crowd to make a group deal with
throwing dirt, ------ but sure that is my personal choice, ------------- you
think you had your laugh on my behave together with your friends, well I guess
you had and you already made enough harm .
Still I wonder who is the coverd ; the one who throw the dirt or the one that
is hit.
Also I wonder who is the hero ; the crowd that found somone to harass or the guy
who restand such attacks.

You didn't even understand before you started your attacks, ----- would you even
start throwing dirt unless you knew there was a crowd of Bolger fanatics to
support any attack on this danish boatbuilder, who think he is better than
flatbottom Bolger.


Scotty from SmallBoats.com

Per Corell from denmark.