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Poplar plywood
I would like to know more about poplar plywood.
We did build a small test boat from it (our FL11) and in the shop it looks like a great material. It is light and strong, does not split, bends well and absorbs resin quite well, a very good point for epoxy encapsulated boats. It is a renewable resource and inexpensive. The mechanical characteristics are perfect for our applications. Several professional kayak builders and WEST Systems speak favorably of poplar. I am certain that it is great plywood for small skiffs, kayaks, canoes etc. That point is granted. It may work for some of our sport fishing designs too but here comes the question: How is the resistance to rot and the moisture intake when used in a boat that stays in the water for long periods of time? I am looking at hulls that are completely epoxy saturated and fiberglassed, where the plywood is a core, not plain wooden boats. I just fiberglassed some scrap poplar plywood, will paint the samples and sink them under my dock for a few months to measure changes but I would love to hear from builders with real world experience. Does anybody have a boat build from poplar plywood and how is it doing? Serious answers only please: no flames from "know-it-all" people claiming that this a stupid idea etc. I did my research and compiled a good amount of data about it. No need to tell me that there are different types of poplar, populus and tulipifera or what the bending moment is. What I don't have is information about boats build with that material. Thank you in advance. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com |
Poplar plywood
Not familiar with poplar plywood that actually has poplar as a veneer, but I
am familiar with poplar in "hardwood" form as well as poplar core plywoods (with other hardwood veneers). In general, poplar is one of the woods you simply do not reach for when building anything that may be exposed to water/moisture. Poplar is a popular wood as a secondary wood for the sides and backs of dresser/desk drawers, as good trim that will be painted in a house and in general, it's used anywhere there's a requirement for hardwood, good machinability and paint. While I'm sure you can encapsulate it with resin etc, if moisture does fond the actual wood (and it always does), rapid rot is not a possibility, it's a suretly. Other woods that typically don't find their way to wet uses include maple, alder, red oak etc.... Good luck Rob "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ... I would like to know more about poplar plywood. We did build a small test boat from it (our FL11) and in the shop it looks like a great material. It is light and strong, does not split, bends well and absorbs resin quite well, a very good point for epoxy encapsulated boats. It is a renewable resource and inexpensive. The mechanical characteristics are perfect for our applications. Several professional kayak builders and WEST Systems speak favorably of poplar. I am certain that it is great plywood for small skiffs, kayaks, canoes etc. That point is granted. It may work for some of our sport fishing designs too but here comes the question: How is the resistance to rot and the moisture intake when used in a boat that stays in the water for long periods of time? I am looking at hulls that are completely epoxy saturated and fiberglassed, where the plywood is a core, not plain wooden boats. I just fiberglassed some scrap poplar plywood, will paint the samples and sink them under my dock for a few months to measure changes but I would love to hear from builders with real world experience. Does anybody have a boat build from poplar plywood and how is it doing? Serious answers only please: no flames from "know-it-all" people claiming that this a stupid idea etc. I did my research and compiled a good amount of data about it. No need to tell me that there are different types of poplar, populus and tulipifera or what the bending moment is. What I don't have is information about boats build with that material. Thank you in advance. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com |
Poplar plywood
Let me take that a little further... Poplar will suck up water like a
sponge if it can find it and will swell and distort. I would not consider it a good wood for holding fasteners either... My advice to the pro, dump the stock, run away from this post, and hope the subject never comes up again... no disrespect intended Jaques', and remember, this is ONLY my opinion. Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Poplar plywood
The poplar plywood I am testing is listed here as "marine" plywood:
http://www.worldpanel.com/eurolite.htm I don't expect much distortion from a 5 ply 6mm ply with melamine glue, saturated with epoxy and fiberglassed. This is plywood used as a core and hasn't much to do with wooden boats technology. I agree that poplar is not a proper material for a wooden boat hull but balsa or foam aren't either. Very large and good boats are build from balsa and foam. Poplar has better characteristics than those core materials but it absorbs moisture. I have concerns about moisture and that is why I posted the question. I have seen boats with balsa strips (not Contourcore) as a core. Balsa also absorbs moisture too and is more tender than poplar but those boats last. Why not poplar? At which point will it's moisture content stabilize in an epoxy matrix? It is already used in wood -epoxy construction, WEST systems endorse it for some applications: http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/e...8/plywood.html Poplar is used for aircraft ply and gest a MIL spec. It is tested for shear resistance after a 3 hour boil test. Not exactly a sponge. I know that this applies to poplar with an Okoume face but shear resistance is all in the core, in the poplar. I also know of some kayak builders who had great succes with poplar and if it could be used for larger boats, that would be great. Don't misunderstand: I am playing the devil's advocate here. I keep an open mind about it and I am not ready to endorse it for such applications. I may if my tests come out positive, I may not if I read about some bad experiences. Thanks for your opinions and I would like to read more. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message ... Let me take that a little further... Poplar will suck up water like a sponge if it can find it and will swell and distort. I would not consider it a good wood for holding fasteners either... My advice to the pro, dump the stock, run away from this post, and hope the subject never comes up again... no disrespect intended Jaques', and remember, this is ONLY my opinion. Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Poplar plywood
Thanks Paolo.
My poplar plwyood is made in Spain by Garnica, could it be the same? I would love more details. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Paolo Zini" wrote in message ... "Jacques Mertens" ha scritto nel messaggio ... I would like to know more about poplar plywood. ....CUT... Here, in Italy, one poplar ply producer has produced one experimental small quantity of "marine" poplar ply.(that is phenolic glue used... maybe some wood selection) The intended use is/was for boat furniture, not for hull... But, to promote the product the factory as sponsorized one small group of amateur boatbuilders providing the ply for free if used to build one small boat with it... All this is recent and the result may or may not be useful for you... If you want more details, mail me, I will try to find more info. the mail addr. in header is valid. Paolo |
Poplar plywood
Thanks Paolo.
My poplar plwyood is made in Spain by Garnica, could it be the same? I would love more details. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Paolo Zini" wrote in message ... "Jacques Mertens" ha scritto nel messaggio ... I would like to know more about poplar plywood. ....CUT... Here, in Italy, one poplar ply producer has produced one experimental small quantity of "marine" poplar ply.(that is phenolic glue used... maybe some wood selection) The intended use is/was for boat furniture, not for hull... But, to promote the product the factory as sponsorized one small group of amateur boatbuilders providing the ply for free if used to build one small boat with it... All this is recent and the result may or may not be useful for you... If you want more details, mail me, I will try to find more info. the mail addr. in header is valid. Paolo |
Poplar plywood
My poplar plwyood is made in Spain by Garnica, could it be the same? I would love more details. I don't think so. If memory helps it was one Italian firm. I will collect the info and inform you. Paolo |
Poplar plywood
William R. Watt ) writes:
the poplar we have here is very soft fast growing and not used on boats. there are different varieties of poplar. out of curiosity I checked a couple of my reference books ("Native Trees of Canada (1946) Dept. Mines and Resources, "The Forest Trees of Ontario" (1986) Minstry of Natural Resources) and poplar is (was?) used for veneers plywoods, as well as matches, boxes, plywood, and some lumber on the praries where little else grows. Poplars are also called "cottonwood" as well as "aspen" and they are a close relative of willows. All the varieties are lightweight, soft, not strong, and porous. Most are described as fine textured and white in colour which would explain their use as veneer. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
Poplar plywood
We are talking about two different things.
The plywood we are testing is not a buck a truckload, it is not plain cheap wood. Anyway, I got at least one interesting response about a similar experiment (thanks Paolo) and since I am very stuborn, I will keep testing. What keeps me going is the memory of all the people who were laughing at my first boat designed for Airex. Foam for a boat hull? It will never work they said . . . -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ... The poplar plywood I am testing is listed here as "marine" plywood: http://www.worldpanel.com/eurolite.htm I don't expect much distortion from a 5 ply 6mm ply with melamine glue, saturated with epoxy and fiberglassed. I am playing the devil's advocate here. I keep an open mind about it and I am not ready to endorse it for such applications. I may if my tests come out positive, I may not if I read about some bad experiences. Thanks for your opinions and I would like to read more. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com Well, I still think it is a bad idea, if for no other reason than that the stuff is a buck a truckload up here in the NE and I have *never* heard of *anyone* using is locally for anything to do with boats... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Poplar plywood
Anyway, I got at least one interesting response about a similar experiment (thanks Paolo) and since I am very stuborn, I will keep testing. Do you have received my mail? I have sent it in the middle of virus storm (i have received UNDREDS of virus mails!) and you can have lost it... Paolo |
Poplar plywood
No, I didn't. Please try again: we receive close to 1,000 spam emails a day.
"Paolo Zini" wrote in message ... Anyway, I got at least one interesting response about a similar experiment (thanks Paolo) and since I am very stuborn, I will keep testing. Do you have received my mail? I have sent it in the middle of virus storm (i have received UNDREDS of virus mails!) and you can have lost it... Paolo |
Poplar plywood
"Jacques Mertens" ha scritto nel messaggio .. . No, I didn't. Please try again: we receive close to 1,000 spam emails a day. Posted in the private message area of amateurboatbuiding forum... Only to avoid the spam traffic... Paolo |
Poplar plywood
otta filtre your email. I get 4-5 unwanted mail messages per week. My mail filtering strategy is in file www.ncf.ca/~ag384/e.mSpamFiltre.txt. Some people find limiting the size of mail accepted to 600 lines gets rid of most spam. I rejects all of the current worm spam. "Jacques Mertens" ) writes: No, I didn't. Please try again: we receive close to 1,000 spam emails a day. "Paolo Zini" wrote in message ... Anyway, I got at least one interesting response about a similar experiment (thanks Paolo) and since I am very stuborn, I will keep testing. Do you have received my mail? I have sent it in the middle of virus storm (i have received UNDREDS of virus mails!) and you can have lost it... Paolo -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
Poplar plywood
Anyone use Lite Ply, a poplar plywood made by North American Plywood? (See www.naply.com ) Brian -- My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass "Dan Bollinger" wrote in message news:tp7cb.419450$Oz4.211962@rwcrnsc54... I've done some laminating using cold-molded poplar veneers 1/10th inch thick. It works well with epoxy and makes for a very strong, lightweight laminate. The application wasn't for boat hulls, so I can't help you with your moisture question. "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ... I would like to know more about poplar plywood. We did build a small test boat from it (our FL11) and in the shop it looks like a great material. It is light and strong, does not split, bends well and absorbs resin quite well, a very good point for epoxy encapsulated boats. It is a renewable resource and inexpensive. The mechanical characteristics are perfect for our applications. Several professional kayak builders and WEST Systems speak favorably of poplar. I am certain that it is great plywood for small skiffs, kayaks, canoes etc. That point is granted. It may work for some of our sport fishing designs too but here comes the question: How is the resistance to rot and the moisture intake when used in a boat that stays in the water for long periods of time? I am looking at hulls that are completely epoxy saturated and fiberglassed, where the plywood is a core, not plain wooden boats. I just fiberglassed some scrap poplar plywood, will paint the samples and sink them under my dock for a few months to measure changes but I would love to hear from builders with real world experience. Does anybody have a boat build from poplar plywood and how is it doing? Serious answers only please: no flames from "know-it-all" people claiming that this a stupid idea etc. I did my research and compiled a good amount of data about it. No need to tell me that there are different types of poplar, populus and tulipifera or what the bending moment is. What I don't have is information about boats build with that material. Thank you in advance. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com |
Poplar plywood
Posted in the private message area of amateurboatbuiding forum...
Only to avoid the spam traffic... The mail in amateurboatbuiding forum, remains parked in "out" box, refuses to pass in "sent" box... if I mail to the mail bounces back... Paolo |
Poplar plywood
I used poplar for sheer clamps on a OSS a three seasons ago. My cheap luan
plywood has delaminated in places, but the poplar still looks good. The boat is generally kept under cover and has only paint on it FWIW. -- Andrew Butchart http://www.abutchartconsulting.com/sailing/ - The Floating Bear "Dan Bollinger" wrote in message news:tp7cb.419450$Oz4.211962@rwcrnsc54... I've done some laminating using cold-molded poplar veneers 1/10th inch thick. It works well with epoxy and makes for a very strong, lightweight laminate. The application wasn't for boat hulls, so I can't help you with your moisture question. "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ... I would like to know more about poplar plywood. We did build a small test boat from it (our FL11) and in the shop it looks like a great material. It is light and strong, does not split, bends well and absorbs resin quite well, a very good point for epoxy encapsulated boats. It is a renewable resource and inexpensive. The mechanical characteristics are perfect for our applications. Several professional kayak builders and WEST Systems speak favorably of poplar. I am certain that it is great plywood for small skiffs, kayaks, canoes etc. That point is granted. It may work for some of our sport fishing designs too but here comes the question: How is the resistance to rot and the moisture intake when used in a boat that stays in the water for long periods of time? I am looking at hulls that are completely epoxy saturated and fiberglassed, where the plywood is a core, not plain wooden boats. I just fiberglassed some scrap poplar plywood, will paint the samples and sink them under my dock for a few months to measure changes but I would love to hear from builders with real world experience. Does anybody have a boat build from poplar plywood and how is it doing? Serious answers only please: no flames from "know-it-all" people claiming that this a stupid idea etc. I did my research and compiled a good amount of data about it. No need to tell me that there are different types of poplar, populus and tulipifera or what the bending moment is. What I don't have is information about boats build with that material. Thank you in advance. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
Poplar plywood
"Jacques Mertens" wrote in message . ..
We are talking about two different things. The plywood we are testing is not a buck a truckload, it is not plain cheap wood. Poplar is poplar is poplar. Maybe they put some expensive glue or coating on it to dress it up but poplar still has bad qualities, it soaks up water like a sponge and gets soft, it expands tremendiously and distorts, it discolors (turns black with moisture), and it rots easily, does not hold fasteners well, etc. However, it seems that you have long before asking us, made up your mind and used it... So I will leave it alone from here on... Scotty Anyway, I got at least one interesting response about a similar experiment (thanks Paolo) and since I am very stuborn, I will keep testing. What keeps me going is the memory of all the people who were laughing at my first boat designed for Airex. Foam for a boat hull? It will never work they said . . . -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ... The poplar plywood I am testing is listed here as "marine" plywood: http://www.worldpanel.com/eurolite.htm I don't expect much distortion from a 5 ply 6mm ply with melamine glue, saturated with epoxy and fiberglassed. I am playing the devil's advocate here. I keep an open mind about it and I am not ready to endorse it for such applications. I may if my tests come out positive, I may not if I read about some bad experiences. Thanks for your opinions and I would like to read more. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com Well, I still think it is a bad idea, if for no other reason than that the stuff is a buck a truckload up here in the NE and I have *never* heard of *anyone* using is locally for anything to do with boats... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Poplar plywood
The wood would be used for superstructure. I wonder if the bendy stuff
would be OK for a V-berth with nicer styling, if I supported it with appropriate framing inside? Got me thinking now... That Finnish Form Ply might be worth looking into. I know some people are using MDO (medium density overlay) plywood, but I hesitate on that because most outfits put unrepaired C grade plies inside. They use more plies than standard BCX and that helps, but I'd have to hand pick the stuff AND I'd want to do a peel test and boil test before buying into the stuff. No, what I'm looking for is a "tough enough" rigid ply product for superstructure that isn't too heavy. Brian -- My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass "Doug" wrote in message om... "Brian D" wrote in message news:f78cb.565238$uu5.93153@sccrnsc04... Anyone use Lite Ply, a poplar plywood made by North American Plywood? (See www.naply.com ) Brian Brian, I looked at the Lite-Ply at the NAP site. We sometimes use that stuff at work to build radiused die walls, cabinets, etc. We call it "benderboard". It has basically zero structural integrity...all the plies run the same direction. It's fantastic for bending, if that's what you need, but you definitely couldn't use it for a hull. Did you check out the Finnish Form Ply? Speaking from experience, that stuff is virtually void-free, tough-as-nails(engineered for multiple pours), and extremely water-resistant. It also has a paperlike coating that WILL NOT delaminate, which would make painting a breeze. I see they offer it in 1/4" thickness and long lengths...I wonder how much $$$? Doug |
Poplar plywood
And THAT is probably why I won't be able to find a lightweight plywood for the superstructure of my boat...the trade-offs aren't worth it. Denser is tougher, less dense is ...less dense, and all you get when you buy low density wood. Anyone know of a marine grade foam core hardwood-veneered product? Seems like I saw something like that somewhere. Note: Most of this is academic and just fun to look into. I'm sure I'll end up using standard marine ply of some kind in the end. Brian -- My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message . .. We are talking about two different things. The plywood we are testing is not a buck a truckload, it is not plain cheap wood. Poplar is poplar is poplar. Maybe they put some expensive glue or coating on it to dress it up but poplar still has bad qualities, it soaks up water like a sponge and gets soft, it expands tremendiously and distorts, it discolors (turns black with moisture), and it rots easily, does not hold fasteners well, etc. However, it seems that you have long before asking us, made up your mind and used it... So I will leave it alone from here on... Scotty Anyway, I got at least one interesting response about a similar experiment (thanks Paolo) and since I am very stuborn, I will keep testing. What keeps me going is the memory of all the people who were laughing at my first boat designed for Airex. Foam for a boat hull? It will never work they said . . . -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ... The poplar plywood I am testing is listed here as "marine" plywood: http://www.worldpanel.com/eurolite.htm I don't expect much distortion from a 5 ply 6mm ply with melamine glue, saturated with epoxy and fiberglassed. I am playing the devil's advocate here. I keep an open mind about it and I am not ready to endorse it for such applications. I may if my tests come out positive, I may not if I read about some bad experiences. Thanks for your opinions and I would like to read more. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com Well, I still think it is a bad idea, if for no other reason than that the stuff is a buck a truckload up here in the NE and I have *never* heard of *anyone* using is locally for anything to do with boats... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Poplar plywood
"Brian D" wrote in message news:QWscb.568478$YN5.404597@sccrnsc01...
And THAT is probably why I won't be able to find a lightweight plywood for the superstructure of my boat...the trade-offs aren't worth it. Denser is tougher, less dense is ...less dense, and all you get when you buy low density wood. Anyone know of a marine grade foam core hardwood-veneered product? Seems like I saw something like that somewhere. Note: Most of this is academic and just fun to look into. I'm sure I'll end up using standard marine ply of some kind in the end. Brian Why not make the panels of foam and skins, like vacume bagging? Scotty -- My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message . .. We are talking about two different things. The plywood we are testing is not a buck a truckload, it is not plain cheap wood. Poplar is poplar is poplar. Maybe they put some expensive glue or coating on it to dress it up but poplar still has bad qualities, it soaks up water like a sponge and gets soft, it expands tremendiously and distorts, it discolors (turns black with moisture), and it rots easily, does not hold fasteners well, etc. However, it seems that you have long before asking us, made up your mind and used it... So I will leave it alone from here on... Scotty Anyway, I got at least one interesting response about a similar experiment (thanks Paolo) and since I am very stuborn, I will keep testing. What keeps me going is the memory of all the people who were laughing at my first boat designed for Airex. Foam for a boat hull? It will never work they said . . . -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ... The poplar plywood I am testing is listed here as "marine" plywood: http://www.worldpanel.com/eurolite.htm I don't expect much distortion from a 5 ply 6mm ply with melamine glue, saturated with epoxy and fiberglassed. I am playing the devil's advocate here. I keep an open mind about it and I am not ready to endorse it for such applications. I may if my tests come out positive, I may not if I read about some bad experiences. Thanks for your opinions and I would like to read more. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com Well, I still think it is a bad idea, if for no other reason than that the stuff is a buck a truckload up here in the NE and I have *never* heard of *anyone* using is locally for anything to do with boats... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Poplar plywood
Because of resistance to puncture, isotropic properties and stiffness.
Foam sandwich doesn't work for small boats. To get sufficient resistance to puncture, the skins must have a minimum thickness. For mechanical reasons, we should use tri or quadriaxial while with plywood only biaxial is needed. A sandwich panel made that way would be heavier than a plywood-epoxy-glass sandwich. Once you get around 27', foam sandwich becomes a valid choice. With vacuum-bagging and aramids, we could build smaller units, donw to 20' but the cost would be very high. PS: about poplar, there are no fasteners in our boats . . . -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message Why not make the panels of foam and skins, like vacume bagging? Scotty |
Poplar plywood
"Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ...
Because of resistance to puncture, isotropic properties and stiffness. Foam sandwich doesn't work for small boats. To get sufficient resistance to puncture, the skins must have a minimum thickness. For mechanical reasons, we should use tri or quadriaxial while with plywood only biaxial is needed. A sandwich panel made that way would be heavier than a plywood-epoxy-glass sandwich. Once you get around 27', foam sandwich becomes a valid choice. With vacuum-bagging and aramids, we could build smaller units, donw to 20' but the cost would be very high. PS: about poplar, there are no fasteners in our boats . . . I know.. I am building one of your boats now... but of course, I will be using no poplar Scotty 8-) -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message Why not make the panels of foam and skins, like vacume bagging? Scotty |
Poplar plywood
I dunno ...the one and only guy (Homer, AK) I've met that has a lot of vacuum bagging experience, as in "did it for a living down in Florida", said it was not so easy to get right. I only met him just the once, and haven't looked into it at all after that ...figured it might not be worth the effort. What do you think? Brian -- My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Brian D" wrote in message news:QWscb.568478$YN5.404597@sccrnsc01... And THAT is probably why I won't be able to find a lightweight plywood for the superstructure of my boat...the trade-offs aren't worth it. Denser is tougher, less dense is ...less dense, and all you get when you buy low density wood. Anyone know of a marine grade foam core hardwood-veneered product? Seems like I saw something like that somewhere. Note: Most of this is academic and just fun to look into. I'm sure I'll end up using standard marine ply of some kind in the end. Brian Why not make the panels of foam and skins, like vacume bagging? Scotty -- My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message . .. We are talking about two different things. The plywood we are testing is not a buck a truckload, it is not plain cheap wood. Poplar is poplar is poplar. Maybe they put some expensive glue or coating on it to dress it up but poplar still has bad qualities, it soaks up water like a sponge and gets soft, it expands tremendiously and distorts, it discolors (turns black with moisture), and it rots easily, does not hold fasteners well, etc. However, it seems that you have long before asking us, made up your mind and used it... So I will leave it alone from here on... Scotty Anyway, I got at least one interesting response about a similar experiment (thanks Paolo) and since I am very stuborn, I will keep testing. What keeps me going is the memory of all the people who were laughing at my first boat designed for Airex. Foam for a boat hull? It will never work they said . . . -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ... The poplar plywood I am testing is listed here as "marine" plywood: http://www.worldpanel.com/eurolite.htm I don't expect much distortion from a 5 ply 6mm ply with melamine glue, saturated with epoxy and fiberglassed. I am playing the devil's advocate here. I keep an open mind about it and I am not ready to endorse it for such applications. I may if my tests come out positive, I may not if I read about some bad experiences. Thanks for your opinions and I would like to read more. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com Well, I still think it is a bad idea, if for no other reason than that the stuff is a buck a truckload up here in the NE and I have *never* heard of *anyone* using is locally for anything to do with boats... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Poplar plywood
JM, I was considering researching lightweight solutions for the superstructure, not for the hull or structural components. See my boat project web site below. Brian -- My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message .. . Because of resistance to puncture, isotropic properties and stiffness. Foam sandwich doesn't work for small boats. To get sufficient resistance to puncture, the skins must have a minimum thickness. For mechanical reasons, we should use tri or quadriaxial while with plywood only biaxial is needed. A sandwich panel made that way would be heavier than a plywood-epoxy-glass sandwich. Once you get around 27', foam sandwich becomes a valid choice. With vacuum-bagging and aramids, we could build smaller units, donw to 20' but the cost would be very high. PS: about poplar, there are no fasteners in our boats . . . -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message Why not make the panels of foam and skins, like vacume bagging? Scotty |
Poplar plywood
|
Poplar plywood
You don't have to vacuum bag foam necessarily.
For some interior parts, your cabin and especially for the roof, you could use foam and fiberglass as if it was plywood. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Brian D" wrote in message news:YVOcb.583066$o%2.266323@sccrnsc02... I dunno ...the one and only guy (Homer, AK) I've met that has a lot of vacuum bagging experience, as in "did it for a living down in Florida", said it was not so easy to get right. I only met him just the once, and haven't looked into it at all after that ...figured it might not be worth the effort. What do you think? Brian -- My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Brian D" wrote in message news:QWscb.568478$YN5.404597@sccrnsc01... And THAT is probably why I won't be able to find a lightweight plywood for the superstructure of my boat...the trade-offs aren't worth it. Denser is tougher, less dense is ...less dense, and all you get when you buy low density wood. Anyone know of a marine grade foam core hardwood-veneered product? Seems like I saw something like that somewhere. Note: Most of this is academic and just fun to look into. I'm sure I'll end up using standard marine ply of some kind in the end. Brian Why not make the panels of foam and skins, like vacume bagging? Scotty -- My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message . .. We are talking about two different things. The plywood we are testing is not a buck a truckload, it is not plain cheap wood. Poplar is poplar is poplar. Maybe they put some expensive glue or coating on it to dress it up but poplar still has bad qualities, it soaks up water like a sponge and gets soft, it expands tremendiously and distorts, it discolors (turns black with moisture), and it rots easily, does not hold fasteners well, etc. However, it seems that you have long before asking us, made up your mind and used it... So I will leave it alone from here on... Scotty Anyway, I got at least one interesting response about a similar experiment (thanks Paolo) and since I am very stuborn, I will keep testing. What keeps me going is the memory of all the people who were laughing at my first boat designed for Airex. Foam for a boat hull? It will never work they said . . . -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message ... The poplar plywood I am testing is listed here as "marine" plywood: http://www.worldpanel.com/eurolite.htm I don't expect much distortion from a 5 ply 6mm ply with melamine glue, saturated with epoxy and fiberglassed. I am playing the devil's advocate here. I keep an open mind about it and I am not ready to endorse it for such applications. I may if my tests come out positive, I may not if I read about some bad experiences. Thanks for your opinions and I would like to read more. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com Well, I still think it is a bad idea, if for no other reason than that the stuff is a buck a truckload up here in the NE and I have *never* heard of *anyone* using is locally for anything to do with boats... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
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