Book about structural design ?
 

With at least some lines dealing with displacement (ie non planning)
powerboats in plywood (classical, not stich and glue) , length 30'.

subsidary question :
Does "Guide for building and classing Motor Pleasure Yachts" from ABS deals
with above powerboats ? Or other regulations 'Lloyds ???)

Thanks for using your time to answer.

Book about structural design ?
 

Two books I would recommend are Elements of Boat Strength by David Gerr
and Principles of Yacht Design by Lars Larsson and Rolf Eliasson.
Principles is by far the more complete and technical book but you better
be strong on math and not "metrically challanged" like me. Elements
is a bit more understandable and provides formulas in English and metric.

VG wrote:
With at least some lines dealing with displacement (ie non planning)
powerboats in plywood (classical, not stich and glue) , length 30'.

subsidary question :
Does "Guide for building and classing Motor Pleasure Yachts" from ABS deals
with above powerboats ? Or other regulations 'Lloyds ???)

Thanks for using your time to answer.






--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Book about structural design ?
 

If you call ABS they will be able to answer that question. I think the
bigger questions is do you have an engineering background?
ABS requires you to know how to calculate section modulus, know
the mechanical properties of your materials, and generally
have an engineering knowledge of structures.

"VG" wrote in message
...
With at least some lines dealing with displacement (ie non planning)
powerboats in plywood (classical, not stich and glue) , length 30'.

subsidary question :
Does "Guide for building and classing Motor Pleasure Yachts" from ABS
deals
with above powerboats ? Or other regulations 'Lloyds ???)

Thanks for using your time to answer.

Book about structural design ?
 

Glenn Ashmore ) writes:

...Elements
is a bit more understandable and provides formulas in English and metric.

and graphs for the mathematically challenged


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Book about structural design ?
 

David Geer's "The Elements of Boat Strength" is
a very good book. It covers a lot of topics
in pretty good detail without requiring the
reader to be a mechanical engineer. It also
contains the scantling rules he uses for
his projects.

Eric Greene Associates "Marine Composites"
is also possibly useful depending on your
purposes.

"Principles of Yacht Design" by Larsson and
Eliasson is a SNAME publication, as is

Harry Benford's "Naval Architecture for Non-Naval
Architects"

and of course, "Introduction to Naval Architecture"
by Tom Gilmer remains the entry-level textbook
at the Naval Academy.

One thing I found useful was a course on "statics"
which I found on the Internet. I've lost the URL,
much to my aggravation on several occassions now,
but it was by a reputable university and it was
a *great*. I wanted to do the "dynamics" course
as well but as i said, i lost the URL and Googling
has turned it up again. sigh.

Note that my goal was to understand what the NavArchs
and the MEs were doing and how they do it on my boat
project. If I were building something I would certainly
go with published scantlings or otherwise do things
that have been approved by a real, card-carrying
Engineer.

I hope this helps.

-mo

Book about structural design ?
 

Others suggested good books but forgot the best:
"Designing for Power and Sail" by Arthur Edmunds.

It gives basic rules with formulas and all you need to start doing your own
calculations.
BTW: the laws of mechanic applies the same way to all materials including
stitch and glue, only the material properties change but the rules stay the
same.

Maybe you asked for rule of thumb scantlings? Then see H. Chappelle.

--
Jacques
http://www.bateau.com


"VG" wrote in message
...
With at least some lines dealing with displacement (ie non planning)
powerboats in plywood (classical, not stich and glue) , length 30'.

subsidary question :
Does "Guide for building and classing Motor Pleasure Yachts" from ABS
deals
with above powerboats ? Or other regulations 'Lloyds ???)

Thanks for using your time to answer.

Book about structural design ?
 

If you call ABS they will be able to answer that question.

Not everybody live in US. Not so easy to call ABS when you can barely write,
but no speak english. I can understand a slowly oxford english, but a fast
texan (or australian to change country) is far beyond my abilities.

I think the
bigger questions is do you have an engineering background?

Yes.

ABS requires you to know how to calculate section modulus, know
the mechanical properties of your materials, and generally
have an engineering knowledge of structures.


Not a problem. My real problem is to determine the forces that will be
exerced on the hull. In mathematical conditions, I can do some things. But
real life sometimes differs from mathematics.


"VG" wrote in message
...
With at least some lines dealing with displacement (ie non planning)
powerboats in plywood (classical, not stich and glue) , length 30'.

subsidary question :
Does "Guide for building and classing Motor Pleasure Yachts" from ABS
deals
with above powerboats ? Or other regulations 'Lloyds ???)

Thanks for using your time to answer.

Book about structural design ?
 

"VG" ) writes:
If you call ABS they will be able to answer that question.

Not everybody live in US. Not so easy to call ABS when you can barely write,
but no speak english. I can understand a slowly oxford english, but a fast
texan (or australian to change country) is far beyond my abilities.

a fast texan?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Book about structural design ?
 

That's OK. The fast Texans aren't telling the truth anyway.

VG wrote:

If you call ABS they will be able to answer that question.

Not everybody live in US. Not so easy to call ABS when you can barely write,
but no speak english. I can understand a slowly oxford english, but a fast
texan (or australian to change country) is far beyond my abilities.

I think the
bigger questions is do you have an engineering background?

Yes.

ABS requires you to know how to calculate section modulus, know
the mechanical properties of your materials, and generally
have an engineering knowledge of structures.


Not a problem. My real problem is to determine the forces that will be
exerced on the hull. In mathematical conditions, I can do some things. But
real life sometimes differs from mathematics.

"VG" wrote in message
...
With at least some lines dealing with displacement (ie non planning)
powerboats in plywood (classical, not stich and glue) , length 30'.

subsidary question :
Does "Guide for building and classing Motor Pleasure Yachts" from ABS
deals
with above powerboats ? Or other regulations 'Lloyds ???)

Thanks for using your time to answer.

Book about structural design ?
 

"VG" wrote in message
...
If you call ABS they will be able to answer that question.

Not everybody live in US. Not so easy to call ABS when you can barely
write,
but no speak english. I can understand a slowly oxford english, but a fast
texan (or australian to change country) is far beyond my abilities.

It's probably a good thing, for a lot of reasons, that we all don't live in
the US. And your english is pretty good, good enough that I didn't even
to bother to check where your message came from. My apologies.

ABS does have a web site (www.eagle.org), and they do list an address
for you in France:
Les Docks - Atrium 10.3
10, Place De La Joliette
Marseille
FRANCE 13002



phone 33-4-91-14-32-20

Not a problem. My real problem is to determine the forces that will be
exerced on the hull. In mathematical conditions, I can do some things. But
real life sometimes differs from mathematics.

That's the truth! ABS is derived from both mathematics and experience, and
offers you options in design that other rules don't. If you need some help
in interpreting what ABS is asking for, drop me a line and I'll help you
out.

Matt

Book about structural design ?
 

Book about structural design ?
 

Martin S says:

Hmm, serioulsy, if you really are mathematically challenged you should
maybe stay away from structural engineering or any other engineering
for that matter.

Hmmmmm...

Steve pulls up a chair...

Book about structural design ?
 

It's important to note that the remarks made about structural calculations
are accurate, but also note that boats are subject to unknown forces. Many
structural methods used for boats have varying qualities, depending on who
did the work and how much of a hurry they are in. Structural design for
boats uses structural engineering yes, but large margins are built into the
process by using common design rules. Design rules are such things as
expected 'hull pressure factors' based on hull type, weight and speed. The
hull pressure factor is then used to determine spacing of hull support
members, then hull skin or plating is selected (flexural modulus) according
to typical design rules for allow percentages of flex. Finally, the
structure inside the hull, on the required spacing, is determined ...again,
from the hull pressure. It is here, and in skin type and thickness, that
structural engineering and experience come into play. There are many ways
to frame up or provide internal support to a hull, and it requires
engineering knowledge and experience. There is no reason that any
interested person cannot work their way through the learning material and
then do the design, especially for smaller and lower-powered boats (skiffs).
Larger boats should be designed if you are confident that you have the
appropriate training and experience. Note that most states (US again
....sorry) use the term 'architect' for a yacht designer and as such usually
do not have licensing associated with this type of work. Two states,
Washington and some other I can't remember, classify the design work and
have varying requirements. Pressure from governments tends to support
higher regulation and licensing requirements while pressures from industry
support less (to prevent loss of business, higher prices, smaller businesses
not surviving etc). If I were you, I'd go ahead and buy the books that
apply, read them, then decide how far you want to take it...the training and
education or the design work itself. Armchair sports or playing the game.

Brian

--
My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass

"VG" wrote in message
...
If you call ABS they will be able to answer that question.

Not everybody live in US. Not so easy to call ABS when you can barely
write,
but no speak english. I can understand a slowly oxford english, but a fast
texan (or australian to change country) is far beyond my abilities.

I think the
bigger questions is do you have an engineering background?

Yes.

ABS requires you to know how to calculate section modulus, know
the mechanical properties of your materials, and generally
have an engineering knowledge of structures.


Not a problem. My real problem is to determine the forces that will be
exerced on the hull. In mathematical conditions, I can do some things. But
real life sometimes differs from mathematics.


"VG" wrote in message
...
With at least some lines dealing with displacement (ie non planning)
powerboats in plywood (classical, not stich and glue) , length 30'.

subsidary question :
Does "Guide for building and classing Motor Pleasure Yachts" from ABS
deals
with above powerboats ? Or other regulations 'Lloyds ???)

Thanks for using your time to answer.

Book about structural design ?
 

Martin says:

Steve pulls up a chair...

Hmmmmmmm...

are you

1) expecting a lecture on why math is fundamental to engineering

or

2) pulling my leg?


Neither - it looked like the start of a good flame war, so I thought I'd get a
ringside seat. Looks like the gauntlet wasn't picked up, though. Just as
well.

Steve

Book about structural design ?
 

Ok, how about "unpredictable". Sure, you can make reasonable estimates.
Then some guy with big eyes and small brain decides to set a new air speed
record off the top of a wave, only to slam into a BIG wave right after. If
you could guarantee prudent use, you might be able to better estimate loads.

Brian

"Schöön Martin" wrote in message
...
"Brian D" writes:

It's important to note that the remarks made about structural
calculations
are accurate, but also note that boats are subject to unknown forces.

Unknown forces?
Like ESP or telekinesis or "may the force be with you"?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist :-)

But also, there are no such unknown forces IMHO.

snip
not surviving etc). If I were you, I'd go ahead and buy the books that
apply, read them, then decide how far you want to take it...the training
and
education or the design work itself. Armchair sports or playing the
game.

Right and if you feel intimidated by the math and physics you'd better
stay away from it.

Brian

--
My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass

Go to http://www.multihulls.org/boats/scarlatti/scmain.htm for something
completely different. Please visit the "Technical" section (link at the
bottom) for a very incomplete discussion. Material on structural
engineering will be added as time permits.

Cheers,

--
================================================== ======================
Martin Schöön

"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back"
Piet Hein
================================================== ======================

Book about structural design ?
 

Wait ...give it time. If someone is mathematically challenged, then it
might also take them awhile to figure out that they've been flamed :)

bd


"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
Martin says:

Steve pulls up a chair...

Hmmmmmmm...

are you

1) expecting a lecture on why math is fundamental to engineering

or

2) pulling my leg?


Neither - it looked like the start of a good flame war, so I thought I'd
get a
ringside seat. Looks like the gauntlet wasn't picked up, though. Just as
well.

Steve

Book about structural design ?
 

Brian D wrote:

Ok, how about "unpredictable". Sure, you can make reasonable estimates.
Then some guy with big eyes and small brain decides to set a new air speed
record off the top of a wave, only to slam into a BIG wave right after. If
you could guarantee prudent use, you might be able to better estimate loads.

Brian


That's not a unpredictable load, but an unacceptable OVER-load.

It's _supposed_ to break then.

It it doesn't break then, it's built too heavy.


Richard

Book about structural design ?
 

Martin says:

Oh, I am sorry for having disapointed you. I'll give it a better try
next time :-)

Not your fault, Martin - you threw the gauntlet, no-one bothered to pick it up.
;-)

Steve "doesn't _really_ enjoy flame wars"

Book about structural design ?
 

"Brian D" writes:

Ok, how about "unpredictable". Sure, you can make reasonable estimates.
Then some guy with big eyes and small brain decides to set a new air speed
record off the top of a wave, only to slam into a BIG wave right after. If
you could guarantee prudent use, you might be able to better estimate loads.

Brian

Right, not even the safest of cars (Volvo?) survive being driven off
a cliff.

Then you have the racing crowd who do things normally not regarded as
prudent...

http://www.multihulls.org/clublinks.html
that kind of sailing isn't regarded as particularly wild. It's a
5 tonne boat, 60'x60' on the water.

Another one: http://www.bonduelle.fr/htm/voile/fdecran/1024/01.jpg
and http://www.zedda.com/news_details.php?ID=37#
but these two does not represent severe load cases (flat water).

I have seen wilder things but don't seem to be able to locate them
again.

Cheers,

--
================================================== ======================
Martin Schöön

"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back"
Piet Hein
================================================== ======================

Book about structural design ?
 

Richard Lamb ) writes:
Brian D wrote:

Ok, how about "unpredictable". Sure, you can make reasonable estimates.
Then some guy with big eyes and small brain decides to set a new air speed
record off the top of a wave, only to slam into a BIG wave right after. If
you could guarantee prudent use, you might be able to better estimate loads.

Brian


That's not a unpredictable load, but an unacceptable OVER-load.

It's _supposed_ to break then.

It it doesn't break then, it's built too heavy.

a boundry value problem?

the theory of convex hulls is an optimization method in the mathematics of
descision making. thus proving mathematicians are wannabe boat builders
like everybody else. :)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Book about structural design ?
 

Sigh ...some things are best just watched from comfortable spectator
seats...

"Schöön Martin" wrote in message
...
"Brian D" writes:

Ok, how about "unpredictable". Sure, you can make reasonable estimates.
Then some guy with big eyes and small brain decides to set a new air
speed
record off the top of a wave, only to slam into a BIG wave right after.
If
you could guarantee prudent use, you might be able to better estimate
loads.

Brian

Right, not even the safest of cars (Volvo?) survive being driven off
a cliff.

Then you have the racing crowd who do things normally not regarded as
prudent...

http://www.multihulls.org/clublinks.html
that kind of sailing isn't regarded as particularly wild. It's a
5 tonne boat, 60'x60' on the water.

Another one: http://www.bonduelle.fr/htm/voile/fdecran/1024/01.jpg
and http://www.zedda.com/news_details.php?ID=37#
but these two does not represent severe load cases (flat water).

I have seen wilder things but don't seem to be able to locate them
again.

Cheers,

--
================================================== ======================
Martin Schöön

"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back"
Piet Hein
================================================== ======================