Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
Group,
I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the "cheap" theme!). Thanks in advance, James |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
From what I've read (no real experience), pirogues (which this boat
falls under IMO) are relatively tippy. As long as you stay low in the boat, you should be ok. Personally, from looking at the design, I'd add an oak 1x1 keel down the center. Maybe Jacques will chime in... Ed James W. Sloan wrote: Group, I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the "cheap" theme!). Thanks in advance, James |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
all canoes are tippy. you have to get used to using them. like riding a bike. flat bottom canoes track good. its not the flat bottom but the length to beam ratio, curvature of the bottom fore-and-aft (called "rocker"), and in a wind the height of the ends ("windage)" which deterime how well a canoe tracks. a solo canoe is paddled heeled over sitting amidships to one side which does put a hard chined canoe at a disadvantage. a lot of small canoes are paddled flat with a double paddle like a kayak and they would track better that way. 13 ft by 30 inches is normal for a solo canoe. the sides should be about 1 foot high. you can email the seller of the plans to ask what the capacity is at 4" of draft and at 6" of freeboard. canoes are normally designed to draw 4" in normal use. that's where they should perform best. a canoe with less than 6" of freeboard is overloaded. good luck. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ National Capital FreeNet www.ncf.ca Ottawa's free community network website: www.ncf.ca/~ag384 "Tank, take me in." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
all canoes are tippy. you have to get used to using them. like riding a bike. Yep...I've managed to roll myself out of a 17 foot aluminum canoe in flat calm water! 13 ft by 30 inches is normal for a solo canoe. the sides should be about 1 foot high. OK...I just never had the proportions visualized. I was wondering if this was close to "normal" for a solo canoe. The sides are cut 1 foot wide with a 1 3/8 relief for some rocker. Looks like the end result is 10 5/8 high by the plans, given the nesting on two sheets, I'll add what's available as a little extra freeboard. you can email the seller of the plans to ask what the capacity is at 4" of draft and at 6" of freeboard. The plans were free from Jaques at bateau.com. I'll check the site for some info, I hate to bug the guy on a freebie, especially for such a simple boat!! What the heck, I'll just put her together and give it a shot. If its too tender for me, I'll pass it along to a nephew. Thanks, James |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
I built a variation of the "Cheap Canoe" that I'm quite happy with. Yes, it
can feel a bit "tippy" when you get into it - especially depending on your weight - I'm 220lbs. I've found that it can tip over quite far and actually gets more "stiff" as it goes - until the gunwale gets under water .... I've only capsized mine once and that was on purpose. It also works well on very "thin" water - it practically floats on spit. I didn't fibreglass my boat, but did use Luan for the construction. I squeegeed epoxy onto the wood to make it water resistant and then put on a couple of coats of paint. It's held up well for me and it's a lot cheaper to build without the fibreglass even though it won't last as long. I did add a small skeg and some floatation chambers to mine. The skeg has helped with tracking quite a bit. There's a discussion board over on bateau.com - or at least there was a while ago. Lots of people discuss this design there. -- Andrew Butchart http://www.abutchartconsulting.com/sailing/ - The Floating Bear "James W. Sloan" wrote in message ... Group, I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the "cheap" theme!). Thanks in advance, James -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
|
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
That's exactly what I was interested in....I can get accustomed to the
"feel" of just about any boat, but true tippiness is another thing. Since we have a substantial alligator population where I intend to use this thing, I want to have some reasonable expectations before paddling off the marsh's edge. I don't mind canoeing among them, I just try not to swim that much!! What mods did you make to the original plan? I thought about adding an inch or two of freeboard, enough to matter but not interfere with arm motion. I also thought about some flotation chambers, perhaps in the stem & stern areas. These should be easy enough to enclose and fill. I'm sure I have enough tape to do the inside and outside seams, I might have enough 50" 6oz. to do the bottom and outer sides. I'll definitely seal it all well with epoxy. I was at Home Depot (I know...I know) today looking at the ply they have in stock, saw something called "Sanderply" (not superply) that looks a lot like 1/4 MDO although none of the help knew a thing about it. Thanks, James " I built a variation of the "Cheap Canoe" that I'm quite happy with. Yes, it can feel a bit "tippy" when you get into it - especially depending on your weight - I'm 220lbs. I've found that it can tip over quite far and actually gets more "stiff" as it goes - until the gunwale gets under water .... I've only capsized mine once and that was on purpose. It also works well on very "thin" water - it practically floats on spit. I didn't fibreglass my boat, but did use Luan for the construction. I squeegeed epoxy onto the wood to make it water resistant and then put on a couple of coats of paint. It's held up well for me and it's a lot cheaper to build without the fibreglass even though it won't last as long. I did add a small skeg and some floatation chambers to mine. The skeg has helped with tracking quite a bit. There's a discussion board over on bateau.com - or at least there was a while ago. Lots of people discuss this design there. -- Andrew Butchart http://www.abutchartconsulting.com/sailing/ - The Floating Bear "James W. Sloan" wrote in message ... Group, I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the "cheap" theme!). Thanks in advance, James -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:10:40 -0400, "James W. Sloan"
wrote: That's exactly what I was interested in....I can get accustomed to the "feel" of just about any boat, but true tippiness is another thing. Since we have a substantial alligator population where I intend to use this thing, I want to have some reasonable expectations before paddling off the marsh's edge. I don't mind canoeing among them, I just try not to swim that much!! What mods did you make to the original plan? I thought about adding an inch or two of freeboard, enough to matter but not interfere with arm motion. snip As I recall, the nesting plans for the Cheap Canoe are really tight. Your extra inch or two of freeboard might double your plywood requirement. - Rick Tyler -- "Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
Ed Edelenbos wrote in message ...
From what I've read (no real experience), pirogues (which this boat falls under IMO) are relatively tippy. As long as you stay low in the boat, you should be ok. Personally, from looking at the design, I'd add an oak 1x1 keel down the center. Almost. The real problem with Pirogues, and I have built and paddled a few, is that initially they were used by cajuns to stand and pole around the Bayou with no real concern as to which way the boat was pointed... This creates a problem however when you want the boat to paddle or row in straight, especially if there is any movement to the water. Now when you convert this to a paddle or row boat you want to have the directional stability of a rear skeg (can be full length) I usually have mine start at 3/4 x 3/4 in the bow as you suggested, but about mid hull start to taper out to about 2 1/2 to 3 inches high a few inches forward of the stern. It is still a little tough to paddle these things, I have not built Bateau's version, but the skeg helps a lot. Maybe Jaques has one in the plan, forgive me if I did not look and that is the case... if it is already there... nevermind. Scotty from SmallBoats.com Maybe Jacques will chime in... Ed James W. Sloan wrote: Group, I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the "cheap" theme!). Thanks in advance, James |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
Good points below and want to add that the old "pirogues" were heavy. Some
were made with 1" thick planks, the weight added stability, inertia. Our modern plywood boats are light, easier to move but less stable. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Wiz" wrote in message ... James, you've got a bone in your teeth now; run with it. I've been screwing my mouth up when I read that a pirogue is "tippy", so I'll go ahead and out with it... tippy is relative; take three boats in the same size range a baidarka, a round-bottom (or multi-chine) canoe, and a pirogue. Go out paddling in each. You'll come back raving about how stable the pirogue is. Remember, these things, and their dugout predecessors, were designed to be propelled by a (skilled) man poling the boat while *standing* near the stern. I suspect you'll find it quite stable for your uses. Cheers/The Fader I hate to bug the guy on a freebie, especially for such a simple boat!! What the heck, I'll just put her together and give it a shot. If its too tender for me, I'll pass it along to a nephew. "LABOR SVGIT" |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
James,
I just built one of these while waiting for my order of marine ply to come in so I can get to work on a Michalak Vamp I;ve been thinking about since January. After talking to Richard Frye who built Yakoo, I changed the design slightly by widening the spread in the center by 2", all other dimensions are the same. This increased the rocker slightly so I added a 1 1/"4 high keel full length on the bottom. As for stability (which is why I made the yakoo change, Richard says it makes the boat more stable in a turn), I'd agree with what has been said before, tippier than a canoe. I haven't spent any time in a kayak so I can't comment there. First couple of times I had it out I just sat on a cushion, found that very tiring. Bought one of those folding low beach/sand chairs and use it now, much more comfortable. I made mine from 5.2mm Virola underlayment plywood from Home Depot, poly resin, 3" glass tape-- used Bondo for some of the fillets, went to resin and wood flour when I ran out of Bondo. Coated the inside with resin, decided not to coat the outside when the weight hit just over 50 lbs-- the keel is glassed, so that added some weight. Still manageble and easy to get on the roof rack, but not the 40 lbs listed. I do think the 7' paddle in the plans would be too short though. Granted, I increased the beam by 2", but my paddle is 90" and I could use another foot. Unfortunately, using a double paddle has aggravated a shoulder impingement I've been fighting for a while (rowing doesn't bother it), so I don't know how much I'll be using the boat myself-- but it's a fun and fairly quick build and is fun to use. I used one coat of Kilz primer and a couple coats of Krylon oil enamel and it'll be stored outside-- so it's just about worst case scenario for a s&g boat-- Poly resin, water resistant (not waterproof) ply, stored outside. We'll see if it falls apart in a couple of years, but this was an experiment anyway. Looks good (or so everybody tells me). I don't know whether a keel is really necessary though. It does track straight but isn't all that easy to turn in tight quarters unless you lean quite a bit. If it were built to spec that might be better. Here's a really cheap and cheesy page with some build photos: http://geocities.com/craicer001/boatpics No text, anybody who's researched s&g building has seen stuff like this a million times. Too bad I couldn't find any semi-gloss paint though. I did repaint the inside with "almond" Krylon after being nearly blinded by the white gloss the first couple of times out! Go on a build it, it's a fun boat and even if you use epoxy it's still not an expensive boat. Good luck, Rick "James W. Sloan" wrote in message ... all canoes are tippy. you have to get used to using them. like riding a bike. Yep...I've managed to roll myself out of a 17 foot aluminum canoe in flat calm water! 13 ft by 30 inches is normal for a solo canoe. the sides should be about 1 foot high. OK...I just never had the proportions visualized. I was wondering if this was close to "normal" for a solo canoe. The sides are cut 1 foot wide with a 1 3/8 relief for some rocker. Looks like the end result is 10 5/8 high by the plans, given the nesting on two sheets, I'll add what's available as a little extra freeboard. you can email the seller of the plans to ask what the capacity is at 4" of draft and at 6" of freeboard. The plans were free from Jaques at bateau.com. I'll check the site for some info, I hate to bug the guy on a freebie, especially for such a simple boat!! What the heck, I'll just put her together and give it a shot. If its too tender for me, I'll pass it along to a nephew. Thanks, James |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
"Richard Cunningham" wrote in message
I do think the 7' paddle in the plans would be too short though. Granted, I increased the beam by 2", but my paddle is 90" and I could use another foot. Unfortunately, using a double paddle has aggravated a shoulder impingement I've been fighting for a while (rowing doesn't bother it), so I don't know how much I'll be using the boat myself-- but it's a fun and fairly quick build and is fun to use. Using a 90 inch paddle with what is probably a wide grip is what disturbed the shoulder. Even if you feel strong enough to "push" the paddle at that length, your shoulder joint (assume you are a human) is probably not designed for that much leverage, at that angle... Get to the paddling groups, or just take my word for it for now. Hope you did not *!@! your shoulder to bad. Nice boat by the way, good luck with your next build... and there will be one... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
"Richard Cunningham" wrote in message
I do think the 7' paddle in the plans would be too short though. Granted, I increased the beam by 2", but my paddle is 90" and I could use another foot. Unfortunately, using a double paddle has aggravated a shoulder impingement I've been fighting for a while (rowing doesn't bother it), so I don't know how much I'll be using the boat myself-- but it's a fun and fairly quick build and is fun to use. Using a 90 inch paddle with what is probably a wide grip is what disturbed the shoulder. Even if you feel strong enough to "push" the paddle at that length, your shoulder joint (assume you are a human) is probably not designed for that much leverage, at that angle... Get to the paddling groups, or just take my word for it for now. Hope you did not *!@! your shoulder to bad. Nice boat by the way, good luck with your next build... and there will be one... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
Thanks Scotty,
Yeah, it's hard to say what caused the pain since I also mowed the grass that day, which always gives me trouble. And you're right, pushing is what causes the problem. This Cheap Canoe was boat #2, I built a Steve Lewis LilJon first, and glued up the butt joints today on a Michalak Vamp. This stuff'll eat your brain! Rick "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Richard Cunningham" wrote in message I do think the 7' paddle in the plans would be too short though. Granted, I increased the beam by 2", but my paddle is 90" and I could use another foot. Unfortunately, using a double paddle has aggravated a shoulder impingement I've been fighting for a while (rowing doesn't bother it), so I don't know how much I'll be using the boat myself-- but it's a fun and fairly quick build and is fun to use. Using a 90 inch paddle with what is probably a wide grip is what disturbed the shoulder. Even if you feel strong enough to "push" the paddle at that length, your shoulder joint (assume you are a human) is probably not designed for that much leverage, at that angle... Get to the paddling groups, or just take my word for it for now. Hope you did not *!@! your shoulder to bad. Nice boat by the way, good luck with your next build... and there will be one... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
Well...enough chat I suppose. I'll be off to the lumber store first thing in
the morning to get started! Thanks everyone for the insights and advice. I'll post as the thing progresses......Hey Jaques, tell me in advance what the first mistake I'll be making is. I can then move on to the second one without delay!!! James |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
In keeping with the "cheap" theme, I picked up some pseudo-luan (meranti) at
Home Depot (I know...I know) and got her all cut out. Seems like the nesting plan must not be to scale, the seat dimensions are way bigger than the leftover material on the 2 sheets. Not a problem though...plenty of other scrap around. So far, all is well. I did the cutting with a jigsaw that I'd never used before so, the first cut or two had some extra wave. Thanks goodness for fillets & tape!! James Well...enough chat I suppose. I'll be off to the lumber store first thing in the morning to get started! Thanks everyone for the insights and advice. I'll post as the thing progresses......Hey Jaques, tell me in advance what the first mistake I'll be making is. I can then move on to the second one without delay!!! James |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
"James W. Sloan" wrote in message ...
In keeping with the "cheap" theme, I picked up some pseudo-luan (meranti) at Home Depot (I know...I know) and got her all cut out. Seems like the nesting plan must not be to scale, the seat dimensions are way bigger than the leftover material on the 2 sheets. Not a problem though...plenty of other scrap around. So far, all is well. I did the cutting with a jigsaw that I'd never used before so, the first cut or two had some extra wave. Thanks goodness for fillets & tape!! James I have used the same stuff. I caution to use only that which carries the sticker which reads, "type III Exterior Merenti". Also be real careful of the fact that it is one fat center core with two thin skins at a 90 degree. If there are voids that run the full width of the part, they must be filled or avoided otherwise the hull tends to snap right there just like it was a perforated piece of cardboard. If you are using this stuff, you may want to consider a exterior coating of very light glass, just to strengthen the outer skin against tearing. I have used it for a few plugs while testing hull shapes and it holds up fairly well. I have one that is almost ten years old, but it is covered in 6 oz glass. I did have one that cracked out during construction years ago which sat in mud and grass in my side yard for about 3 years before the unprotected edges started to delaminate. Anyway good luck, and happy building. Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
James, our plans are deliberately not to scale especially not the PDF ones.
All the dimensions are there, no need to scale anything from the plans. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "James W. Sloan" wrote in message ... In keeping with the "cheap" theme, I picked up some pseudo-luan (meranti) at Home Depot (I know...I know) and got her all cut out. Seems like the nesting plan must not be to scale, the seat dimensions are way bigger than the leftover material on the 2 sheets. Not a problem though...plenty of other scrap around. So far, all is well. I did the cutting with a jigsaw that I'd never used before so, the first cut or two had some extra wave. Thanks goodness for fillets & tape!! James Well...enough chat I suppose. I'll be off to the lumber store first thing in the morning to get started! Thanks everyone for the insights and advice. I'll post as the thing progresses......Hey Jaques, tell me in advance what the first mistake I'll be making is. I can then move on to the second one without delay!!! James |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
So far, I've been pleasantly surprised at the lack of voids. The ones I've
found tend to be 1/4 inch or so wide and run only an inch or two. I'll be filling these with epoxy via syringe after loose joining everything together. At $9 a sheet, I thought it was worth a try...cheap lessons if not! I think I've got enough 50 inch 6 oz. to give the exterior at least a good layer. I might end up using 2 or 3 different epoxy brands before its done...field testing I say. Thanks for the advice, James In keeping with the "cheap" theme, I picked up some pseudo-luan (meranti) at Home Depot (I know...I know) and got her all cut out. Seems like the nesting plan must not be to scale, the seat dimensions are way bigger than the leftover material on the 2 sheets. Not a problem though...plenty of other scrap around. So far, all is well. I did the cutting with a jigsaw that I'd never used before so, the first cut or two had some extra wave. Thanks goodness for fillets & tape!! James I have used the same stuff. I caution to use only that which carries the sticker which reads, "type III Exterior Merenti". Also be real careful of the fact that it is one fat center core with two thin skins at a 90 degree. If there are voids that run the full width of the part, they must be filled or avoided otherwise the hull tends to snap right there just like it was a perforated piece of cardboard. If you are using this stuff, you may want to consider a exterior coating of very light glass, just to strengthen the outer skin against tearing. I have used it for a few plugs while testing hull shapes and it holds up fairly well. I have one that is almost ten years old, but it is covered in 6 oz glass. I did have one that cracked out during construction years ago which sat in mud and grass in my side yard for about 3 years before the unprotected edges started to delaminate. Anyway good luck, and happy building. Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
Bateau Cheap Canoe....?
Jaques,
You are absolutely correct. The dimensions (US & Metric) were all just fine. I was only commenting that the nesting diagram implies that there will be enough left to make the seat from the two sheets. Clearly the dimensions indicate otherwise. I'm not bitching though, the plans are worth at least 10x what I paid for them ;). Thanks for the info, the plans, the web site, etc., etc.!! James James, our plans are deliberately not to scale especially not the PDF ones. All the dimensions are there, no need to scale anything from the plans. -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "James W. Sloan" wrote in message ... In keeping with the "cheap" theme, I picked up some pseudo-luan (meranti) at Home Depot (I know...I know) and got her all cut out. Seems like the nesting plan must not be to scale, the seat dimensions are way bigger than the leftover material on the 2 sheets. Not a problem though...plenty of other scrap around. So far, all is well. I did the cutting with a jigsaw that I'd never used before so, the first cut or two had some extra wave. Thanks goodness for fillets & tape!! James Well...enough chat I suppose. I'll be off to the lumber store first thing in the morning to get started! Thanks everyone for the insights and advice. I'll post as the thing progresses......Hey Jaques, tell me in advance what the first mistake I'll be making is. I can then move on to the second one without delay!!! James |
Free paddle plan
Thanx ! I have been looking for some ideas on making some paddles
Pat "Jacques Mertens" wrote in message .. . One of our builders uploaded a nice web page with paddle plans, dimensions, pictures etc. he http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/P...p17/Chap17.htm -- Jacques http://www.bateau.com "Richard Cunningham" wrote in message ... Thanks Scotty, Yeah, it's hard to say what caused the pain since I also mowed the grass that day, which always gives me trouble. And you're right, pushing is what causes the problem. This Cheap Canoe was boat #2, I built a Steve Lewis LilJon first, and glued up the butt joints today on a Michalak Vamp. This stuff'll eat your brain! Rick "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Richard Cunningham" wrote in message I do think the 7' paddle in the plans would be too short though. Granted, I increased the beam by 2", but my paddle is 90" and I could use another foot. Unfortunately, using a double paddle has aggravated a shoulder impingement I've been fighting for a while (rowing doesn't bother it), so I don't know how much I'll be using the boat myself-- but it's a fun and fairly quick build and is fun to use. Using a 90 inch paddle with what is probably a wide grip is what disturbed the shoulder. Even if you feel strong enough to "push" the paddle at that length, your shoulder joint (assume you are a human) is probably not designed for that much leverage, at that angle... Get to the paddling groups, or just take my word for it for now. Hope you did not *!@! your shoulder to bad. Nice boat by the way, good luck with your next build... and there will be one... Scotty from SmallBoats.com |
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