crack fix - fiberglass
 

Howdy all,

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft runabout.
This past summer when using the boat I was getting a bit of water in it
after having it sit for a while in the water (the bilge pump easily took
care of it). I'm now thinking that these cracks may be the cause and water
slowly seeps into the boat.

Now, my question about how I should attempt to fix this giving the following
considerations 1. It's an old boat. 2. I use it a 4-5 weekends a year.
3. I don't want to spend a lot of money as its not worth it.

My ideas have been the following:

1. The ugly job
- rough up the area around the crack and put a few fiberglass patches on
it (poly resin & cloth)
- paint over it

2. Cleaner job
- grind out the crack and a bit of the area around it (make a V)
- fill with fiberglass resin, or epoxy resin using a filler
- not sure if a cloth patch on top of this would be necessary.
- paint over it

What do you guys think given the considerations?

Use your second approach. Definitely put a cloth patch over the job; four or
six oz cloth is sufficient. DO NOT us poly resin; use epoxy.Smooth with
filled epoxy. Barrier coat if you are really fussy.

Bob Swarts

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
Howdy all,

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft runabout.
This past summer when using the boat I was getting a bit of water in it
after having it sit for a while in the water (the bilge pump easily took
care of it). I'm now thinking that these cracks may be the cause and
water slowly seeps into the boat.

Now, my question about how I should attempt to fix this giving the
following considerations 1. It's an old boat. 2. I use it a 4-5
weekends a year. 3. I don't want to spend a lot of money as its not worth
it.

My ideas have been the following:

1. The ugly job
- rough up the area around the crack and put a few fiberglass patches
on it (poly resin & cloth)
- paint over it

2. Cleaner job
- grind out the crack and a bit of the area around it (make a V)
- fill with fiberglass resin, or epoxy resin using a filler
- not sure if a cloth patch on top of this would be necessary.
- paint over it

What do you guys think given the considerations?

I'd go with door #2.

A 4" angle grinder ($12 from Harbor Freight or Bargain Supply) will make
quick work of the grinding. Sneak up on it. It cuts quick. Get to the
clean solid stuff.

Fill the vee with epoxy thickened with fiberglass particles and
thixotropicized (I don't know the structure you're patching, so this is the
best strength stuff.) West #403 plus #406 (colloidal silica) or
equivalents.

One or two layers of glass over the fix -- slather them with epoxy thickened
with #406 and then cover with vinyl to save a lot of fairing and sanding.
Force the air bubbles out the side with your fingers.

When cured, wash, sand to roughen, then spray with Rustoleum primer followed
by Rustoleum white paint.

Fix the beds on your trailer so it doesn't crack again.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
Howdy all,

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft runabout.
This past summer when using the boat I was getting a bit of water in it
after having it sit for a while in the water (the bilge pump easily took
care of it). I'm now thinking that these cracks may be the cause and
water slowly seeps into the boat.

Now, my question about how I should attempt to fix this giving the
following considerations 1. It's an old boat. 2. I use it a 4-5
weekends a year. 3. I don't want to spend a lot of money as its not worth
it.

My ideas have been the following:

1. The ugly job
- rough up the area around the crack and put a few fiberglass patches
on it (poly resin & cloth)
- paint over it

2. Cleaner job
- grind out the crack and a bit of the area around it (make a V)
- fill with fiberglass resin, or epoxy resin using a filler
- not sure if a cloth patch on top of this would be necessary.
- paint over it

What do you guys think given the considerations?

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:17:27 -0700, "Robert or Karen Swarts"
wrote:

Use your second approach. Definitely put a cloth patch over the job; four or
six oz cloth is sufficient. DO NOT us poly resin; use epoxy.Smooth with
filled epoxy. Barrier coat if you are really fussy.

Bob Swarts

If the crack area of the hull is convex outwards, preparing an epoxy
resin glass patch on kitchen plastic works nicely - held on with duct
tape pro temp, of course.
This can give an excellent surface finish to the repair.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

You didn't say visible from the inside, or the outside, or both. Or if you
intend to patch from the inside or the outside. And I guess at 16' it' an
outboard?

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft runabout.

Chris wrote:

Howdy all,

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft runabout.
This past summer when using the boat I was getting a bit of water in it
after having it sit for a while in the water (the bilge pump easily took
care of it). I'm now thinking that these cracks may be the cause and water
slowly seeps into the boat.

Now, my question about how I should attempt to fix this giving the following
considerations 1. It's an old boat. 2. I use it a 4-5 weekends a year.
3. I don't want to spend a lot of money as its not worth it.

My ideas have been the following:

1. The ugly job
- rough up the area around the crack and put a few fiberglass patches on
it (poly resin & cloth)
- paint over it

2. Cleaner job
- grind out the crack and a bit of the area around it (make a V)
- fill with fiberglass resin, or epoxy resin using a filler
- not sure if a cloth patch on top of this would be necessary.
- paint over it

What do you guys think given the considerations?

Close, no cigar. Grind the Vee on the outside, feathering out 5
times the thickness of the glass, leave it rough. Wash it with
acetone. Laminate several layers of glass, starting with a narrow
strip, covering with wider strips until you fill up the Vee. Smooth
and paint / gelcoat. Wet the glass, but try to use more glass and
less resin. Squeeze the bubbles out (don't mix the goo too
vigorously, just thorougly) using a serrated roller made from 2
sizes of washers loose on bent threaded rod with locked nuts. Clean
tools with acetone.

You should also do the same on the inside, or could just lay a
couple of wider strips on the roughened inside, where you can,
washing the cleaned inside with acetone before laminating.

You will find polyester strong enough, if you get enough thickness
and surface area covered and well bonded. Epoxy would be stronger,
but is overkill, and will make the question of refinishing the
exterior gelcoat into a can of worms, because poly gelcoat doesn't
stick to epoxy, so you would need to redo the entire hull with epoxy
paint to achieve a Bristol appearance.

Polyester Gel coat is just catalyzed polyester resin with pigment
and a little thickener, like silica gel, or, I am sure others have
their favorites. You can brush it on with several / many thin
freshly mixed coats applied while the hull is still tacky and buff
it flat and smooth. It is self levelling, especially if you can turn
the boat so you are painting on the level. If you get a good colour
match (on the bottom? who cares?) you won't be ashamed of it. Don't
use bondo, it just isn't as good as it could be, with automotive
fillers, etc.

Are you sure the cracks go right through? If so, gring the crack a
little beyond the torn glass. You may only want to redo the gelcoat,
if that is as deep as they go.

Water collects in boats, even condensation can get inches deep, and
rain could be getting in, too.

Terry K

Listen to Terry. Filled resin has no place in this repair.

Terry Spragg wrote:
Chris wrote:

Howdy all,

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft
runabout. This past summer when using the boat I was getting a bit of
water in it after having it sit for a while in the water (the bilge
pump easily took care of it). I'm now thinking that these cracks may
be the cause and water slowly seeps into the boat.

Now, my question about how I should attempt to fix this giving the
following considerations 1. It's an old boat. 2. I use it a 4-5
weekends a year. 3. I don't want to spend a lot of money as its not
worth it.

My ideas have been the following:

1. The ugly job
- rough up the area around the crack and put a few fiberglass
patches on it (poly resin & cloth)
- paint over it

2. Cleaner job
- grind out the crack and a bit of the area around it (make a V)
- fill with fiberglass resin, or epoxy resin using a filler
- not sure if a cloth patch on top of this would be necessary.
- paint over it

What do you guys think given the considerations?


Close, no cigar. Grind the Vee on the outside, feathering out 5 times
the thickness of the glass, leave it rough. Wash it with acetone.
Laminate several layers of glass, starting with a narrow strip, covering
with wider strips until you fill up the Vee. Smooth and paint /
gelcoat. Wet the glass, but try to use more glass and less resin.
Squeeze the bubbles out (don't mix the goo too vigorously, just
thorougly) using a serrated roller made from 2 sizes of washers loose on
bent threaded rod with locked nuts. Clean tools with acetone.

You should also do the same on the inside, or could just lay a couple of
wider strips on the roughened inside, where you can, washing the cleaned
inside with acetone before laminating.

You will find polyester strong enough, if you get enough thickness and
surface area covered and well bonded. Epoxy would be stronger, but is
overkill, and will make the question of refinishing the exterior gelcoat
into a can of worms, because poly gelcoat doesn't stick to epoxy, so you
would need to redo the entire hull with epoxy paint to achieve a Bristol
appearance.

Polyester Gel coat is just catalyzed polyester resin with pigment and a
little thickener, like silica gel, or, I am sure others have their
favorites. You can brush it on with several / many thin freshly mixed
coats applied while the hull is still tacky and buff it flat and smooth.
It is self levelling, especially if you can turn the boat so you are
painting on the level. If you get a good colour match (on the bottom?
who cares?) you won't be ashamed of it. Don't use bondo, it just isn't
as good as it could be, with automotive fillers, etc.

Are you sure the cracks go right through? If so, gring the crack a
little beyond the torn glass. You may only want to redo the gelcoat, if
that is as deep as they go.

Water collects in boats, even condensation can get inches deep, and rain
could be getting in, too.

Terry K

How I would fix it:

I would grind the inside, only, and put 3 to 4 good layers of glass
inside, starting with mat, then roving, then mat, then roving, in
progressively larger pieces. Do it all at one time.

The resin that seeps outside then is sanded smooth to the hull. A
little gel coat with some scotch tape over the patch, then sand with 600.



Jim wrote:

Listen to Terry. Filled resin has no place in this repair.

Terry Spragg wrote:

Chris wrote:

Howdy all,

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft
runabout. This past summer when using the boat I was getting a bit of
water in it after having it sit for a while in the water (the bilge
pump easily took care of it). I'm now thinking that these cracks may
be the cause and water slowly seeps into the boat.

Now, my question about how I should attempt to fix this giving the
following considerations 1. It's an old boat. 2. I use it a 4-5
weekends a year. 3. I don't want to spend a lot of money as its not
worth it.

My ideas have been the following:

1. The ugly job
- rough up the area around the crack and put a few fiberglass
patches on it (poly resin & cloth)
- paint over it

2. Cleaner job
- grind out the crack and a bit of the area around it (make a V)
- fill with fiberglass resin, or epoxy resin using a filler
- not sure if a cloth patch on top of this would be necessary.
- paint over it

What do you guys think given the considerations?



Close, no cigar. Grind the Vee on the outside, feathering out 5 times
the thickness of the glass, leave it rough. Wash it with acetone.
Laminate several layers of glass, starting with a narrow strip,
covering with wider strips until you fill up the Vee. Smooth and
paint / gelcoat. Wet the glass, but try to use more glass and less
resin. Squeeze the bubbles out (don't mix the goo too vigorously,
just thorougly) using a serrated roller made from 2 sizes of washers
loose on bent threaded rod with locked nuts. Clean tools with acetone.

You should also do the same on the inside, or could just lay a couple
of wider strips on the roughened inside, where you can, washing the
cleaned inside with acetone before laminating.

You will find polyester strong enough, if you get enough thickness and
surface area covered and well bonded. Epoxy would be stronger, but is
overkill, and will make the question of refinishing the exterior
gelcoat into a can of worms, because poly gelcoat doesn't stick to
epoxy, so you would need to redo the entire hull with epoxy paint to
achieve a Bristol appearance.

Polyester Gel coat is just catalyzed polyester resin with pigment and
a little thickener, like silica gel, or, I am sure others have their
favorites. You can brush it on with several / many thin freshly mixed
coats applied while the hull is still tacky and buff it flat and
smooth. It is self levelling, especially if you can turn the boat so
you are painting on the level. If you get a good colour match (on the
bottom? who cares?) you won't be ashamed of it. Don't use bondo, it
just isn't as good as it could be, with automotive fillers, etc.

Are you sure the cracks go right through? If so, gring the crack a
little beyond the torn glass. You may only want to redo the gelcoat,
if that is as deep as they go.

Water collects in boats, even condensation can get inches deep, and
rain could be getting in, too.

Terry K

Chris wrote:

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft
runabout. This past summer when using the boat I was getting a bit
of water in it after having it sit for a while in the water (the
bilge pump easily took care of it). I'm now thinking that these
cracks may be the cause and water slowly seeps into the boat.

Now, my question about how I should attempt to fix this giving the
following considerations 1. It's an old boat. 2. I use it a 4-5
weekends a year. 3. I don't want to spend a lot of money as its not
worth it.

snip

Based on the above, you need a functional repair, but this is no gold
plater, so the finish of the repair can basically be slim or none;
however, the repair should do a proper job.

My solution will be prejudiced since I run an epoxy shop.

IMHO, polyester is for shower stalls, not boat repairs.


1) Buy a 1 qt kit of laminating epoxy, a yard of 17 oz biaxial, knitted
glass, some 2" chip brushes and some latex gloves.

2) Flip boat upside down and grind back from the crack about 4" using a
24 grit, right angle sander. Leave the sanded surface ROUGH, the rougher
the better.

3) Lay 2 layers of 17 oz glass using the 2nd layer to over lap the first
layer about (1")-(1-1/2") all around.

4) Let cure 48 hours, then scuff up with 24 grit sander and lay 2 more
layers of 17 oz glass as above.

5) Wait 48 hours then fair edges of patch fair with boat using 24 grit
sander.

6) Flip boat over, scuff up inside and lay 2 layers of glass, same as
outside.

7) Get a beer, maybe 2.

8) Allow inside patch to cure about 72 hours, then relaunch boat and enjoy.

Notice the lack of labor intensive finish work?

OK, if you are fussy, fair out edges of inside patch, otherwise, forget it.


Lew

Before you get too carried away on what type of patch job, you might ought
to find out why it cracked. Plenty times hull cracks on fiberglass boats are
due to some type of structural failure of the hull's support system. This
type of problem could be something like a failure in the tabbing of the
stringers and or bulkheads. Also a broken or rotten stringer or bulkhead.
For instance if the is crack running transverse to the hull's length it
could be caused by bulkhead damage. If the crack runs lengthwise, then maybe
its a failed stringer causing the crack. If your boat has a hull liner which
covers all the these structural things, you will have to remove the liner to
make the repair. This is usually a big job so do some poking around thru the
hatches or other access to it's hidden parts and get an idea of where the
stringers are (these are the ones running lenghtwise). Then take a rubber
hammer and tap up and down thelenght of the hull bottom about where you
think these stringers are. If you find areas where the hull flexes along the
stringers then you probably have some structural problems causing the
problem. You might want to get some good fiberglass boat repair books.



--
Ron White
Boat building web address is
www.concentric.net/~knotreel

Lew Hodgett wrote:

so the finish of the repair can basically be slim or none;
however, the repair should do a proper job.


Very true

My solution will be prejudiced since I run an epoxy shop.

IMHO, polyester is for shower stalls, not boat repairs.

Since the rest of the boat is polyester, why should a patch be stronger
than the rest of it? I do use WEST for little things, but a patch
should be the same material the rest of the boat is made of.


Step 1)
Since the boat was built from the inside, I would just do the repair on
the inside. This way there's no finish work on the outside.

Steps 2-6) Grind, mat, roving, mat, roving, gloves, resin, hardener,
roller, don't make a mess. . .


7) Get a beer, maybe 2.

Admire your work while drinking beer.

8) Allow inside patch to cure about 72 hours, then relaunch boat and enjoy.

Notice the lack of labor intensive finish work?


Jim

Jim wrote:
Since the rest of the boat is polyester, why should a patch be stronger
than the rest of it? I do use WEST for little things, but a patch
should be the same material the rest of the boat is made of.


It's not an issue of strength of the material itself, but of bonding
strength. What you are making is called a "secondary bond" meaning that
it's trying to stick to something that's already cured.

Polyester is OK for lay-ups but it's bonding properties are poor, even
to polyester.

It is cheaper, but unless you are really dedicated to squeezing pennies,
and have already wrung the expense out of everything else on the boat,
and don't have any other little projects that epoxy would be best for,
then it's false economy IMHO.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Yes, visible from the outside. From the inside I can't see due to the floor
being in the way.
I have an outboard on this boat.
My intent is outside repair only.

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
You didn't say visible from the inside, or the outside, or both. Or if you
intend to patch from the inside or the outside. And I guess at 16' it' an
outboard?

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft
runabout.

I'm not sure how deep the cracks are at this point. but, I believe they
should be dealt with rather than ignore them.

In regards to the paint / gelcoat, that's an area I still have to
investigate. What was on the old boat I suppose is a 30 year old gelcoat
that may have been shined up a couple time 20 years ago. The sun and the
weather have worn it down pretty good.
I was thinking of simply doing a paint job with something that'll work.
This isn't a show boat by no means.


"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:

Howdy all,

I've got some visible cracks at the bottom of my hull on my 16ft
runabout. This past summer when using the boat I was getting a bit of
water in it after having it sit for a while in the water (the bilge pump
easily took care of it). I'm now thinking that these cracks may be the
cause and water slowly seeps into the boat.

Now, my question about how I should attempt to fix this giving the
following considerations 1. It's an old boat. 2. I use it a 4-5
weekends a year. 3. I don't want to spend a lot of money as its not
worth it.

My ideas have been the following:

1. The ugly job
- rough up the area around the crack and put a few fiberglass patches
on it (poly resin & cloth)
- paint over it

2. Cleaner job
- grind out the crack and a bit of the area around it (make a V)
- fill with fiberglass resin, or epoxy resin using a filler
- not sure if a cloth patch on top of this would be necessary.
- paint over it

What do you guys think given the considerations?

Close, no cigar. Grind the Vee on the outside, feathering out 5 times the
thickness of the glass, leave it rough. Wash it with acetone. Laminate
several layers of glass, starting with a narrow strip, covering with wider
strips until you fill up the Vee. Smooth and paint / gelcoat. Wet the
glass, but try to use more glass and less resin. Squeeze the bubbles out
(don't mix the goo too vigorously, just thorougly) using a serrated roller
made from 2 sizes of washers loose on bent threaded rod with locked nuts.
Clean tools with acetone.

You should also do the same on the inside, or could just lay a couple of
wider strips on the roughened inside, where you can, washing the cleaned
inside with acetone before laminating.

You will find polyester strong enough, if you get enough thickness and
surface area covered and well bonded. Epoxy would be stronger, but is
overkill, and will make the question of refinishing the exterior gelcoat
into a can of worms, because poly gelcoat doesn't stick to epoxy, so you
would need to redo the entire hull with epoxy paint to achieve a Bristol
appearance.

Polyester Gel coat is just catalyzed polyester resin with pigment and a
little thickener, like silica gel, or, I am sure others have their
favorites. You can brush it on with several / many thin freshly mixed
coats applied while the hull is still tacky and buff it flat and smooth.
It is self levelling, especially if you can turn the boat so you are
painting on the level. If you get a good colour match (on the bottom? who
cares?) you won't be ashamed of it. Don't use bondo, it just isn't as good
as it could be, with automotive fillers, etc.

Are you sure the cracks go right through? If so, gring the crack a little
beyond the torn glass. You may only want to redo the gelcoat, if that is
as deep as they go.

Water collects in boats, even condensation can get inches deep, and rain
could be getting in, too.

Terry K

I was actually hoping never to have to rip the floor to get down are redo
the stringers.

You could be right about all of this. I'll dig into the crack to see what I
can see.

"Ron White" wrote in message
.. .
Before you get too carried away on what type of patch job, you might ought
to find out why it cracked. Plenty times hull cracks on fiberglass boats
are
due to some type of structural failure of the hull's support system. This
type of problem could be something like a failure in the tabbing of the
stringers and or bulkheads. Also a broken or rotten stringer or bulkhead.
For instance if the is crack running transverse to the hull's length it
could be caused by bulkhead damage. If the crack runs lengthwise, then
maybe
its a failed stringer causing the crack. If your boat has a hull liner
which
covers all the these structural things, you will have to remove the liner
to
make the repair. This is usually a big job so do some poking around thru
the
hatches or other access to it's hidden parts and get an idea of where the
stringers are (these are the ones running lenghtwise). Then take a rubber
hammer and tap up and down thelenght of the hull bottom about where you
think these stringers are. If you find areas where the hull flexes along
the
stringers then you probably have some structural problems causing the
problem. You might want to get some good fiberglass boat repair books.



--
Ron White
Boat building web address is
www.concentric.net/~knotreel

Hmmm ... if was me, I'd file it under "health and safety", and consult with
an expert. If there's no safety problem, maybe mark the extent of the
cracking (indelible marker), leave it as is, and check the bottom of the
boat once in a while ... and maybe you and your passengers should wear those
PFDs at all times :-) I'm just thinking that if the hull is seriously
cracked, and safety is an issue, patching is imo not the solution.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
Yes, visible from the outside. From the inside I can't see due to the
floor
being in the way.
I have an outboard on this boat.
My intent is outside repair only.

crack fix - fiberglass
 

I'm planning to evaluate the crack further... I really don't know how long
its been there.. and the rollers don't seem to touch that area..

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
Hmmm ... if was me, I'd file it under "health and safety", and consult
with
an expert. If there's no safety problem, maybe mark the extent of the
cracking (indelible marker), leave it as is, and check the bottom of the
boat once in a while ... and maybe you and your passengers should wear
those
PFDs at all times :-) I'm just thinking that if the hull is seriously
cracked, and safety is an issue, patching is imo not the solution.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
Yes, visible from the outside. From the inside I can't see due to the
floor
being in the way.
I have an outboard on this boat.
My intent is outside repair only.