Da$^$%# Luan and Garbage Glue
 

#2 MiniCup developed a crack across the cockpit bottom where I had not
yet glassed it. Turns out the crappy 1/4 luan (bathroom underlayment)
is giving way. Removal of the paint reveals that the stuff is really
disintegrating. The remaining Gorilla Glue is also disintegrating. I
have enough 4 ounce/sqyd glass to do the entire boat. Will remove all
remaining Gorilla Garbage Glue and replace with epoxy fillets as well.

DO NOT use luan or gorilla glue if you value your life in your
homebuilt boat.

It seems that many people consider the MiniCups to be disposable boats
but I refuse to throw away anything I spent that much time on. The
boats are nearly two years old but the luan was a bad idea as was the
Gorilla Glue.. I shoulda used marine ply and epoxy from the beginning.

DO NOT use luan or gorilla glue if you value your life in your
homebuilt boat.

Don't know about gorilla glue. I've no complaint with the plastic resin
(urea formaldehyde) or polyurethane (PL Premuim) glues (more properly
adhesives). The painted (no resin coating) Dogskiff I made in 1999 out of
lauan underlayment got its first fibreglass delamination patch, about a
foot long adn 6" wide, this season. The boat is stored indoors in the
garage when not in use. It was used often up until this year when I've not
been able to get out on the water much. For the money and time put into
the boat it has paid for itself well. I'd expect to get another few years
out of it.



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"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...

DO NOT use luan or gorilla glue if you value your life in your
homebuilt boat.

Don't know about gorilla glue. I've no complaint with the plastic resin
(urea formaldehyde) or polyurethane (PL Premuim) glues (more properly
adhesives). The painted (no resin coating) Dogskiff I made in 1999 out of
lauan underlayment got its first fibreglass delamination patch, about a
foot long adn 6" wide, this season. The boat is stored indoors in the
garage when not in use. It was used often up until this year when I've not
been able to get out on the water much. For the money and time put into
the boat it has paid for itself well. I'd expect to get another few years
out of it.


My luann/gorilla glue boat projects are both holding up fine. I had to
paint them again this year. They are stored outside and upside down when
not in use. I put a couple slabs of treated wood under them or set them on
top of plastic boats to avoid ground contact. One is my daughters kayak...
I put more faith in it than my life depending on it, the life of my kid
(though she wears a life jacket at ALL TIMES). A home built boat is only as
good as they are built/maintained/inspected.

Ed

The difference may be that we have absurdly high humidity and temps for
a lot of the year here plus about 65" of rain each year. The only time
I "store" them is in the summer when there are too many thunderstorms
to use them.

"Crappy Luan" is really a type of mahogany, which is looked down on
because it's used for door facing. I've built a few racing dinghys from it.

It's really good stuff. I've never had any of it fail.

I would only use epoxy glue.



wrote:

#2 MiniCup developed a crack across the cockpit bottom where I had not
yet glassed it. Turns out the crappy 1/4 luan (bathroom underlayment)
is giving way. Removal of the paint reveals that the stuff is really
disintegrating. The remaining Gorilla Glue is also disintegrating. I
have enough 4 ounce/sqyd glass to do the entire boat. Will remove all
remaining Gorilla Garbage Glue and replace with epoxy fillets as well.

DO NOT use luan or gorilla glue if you value your life in your
homebuilt boat.

From what I can tell, areas of the luan have voids beneath the top
layer. Where these areas get exposed to water via a scratch in the
paint, the stuff gets saturated very easily. Areas where there are no
scratches in the paint seem to do ok. I abuse my boats but I expect
them to last. Anytime you beach your boat on an oyster bar you are
gonna get scratches. Having to apply a coat of paint more than once a
year is absurd.
In some areas, the voids seem to run in a linear pattern and then the
stuff is hopeless and the only solution is glass.

I am no expert, but my observation is based on the boats I've built from
luan, and other woods. Luan is great stuff to build a small boat with.

wrote:
From what I can tell, areas of the luan have voids beneath the top
layer. Where these areas get exposed to water via a scratch in the
paint, the stuff gets saturated very easily. Areas where there are no
scratches in the paint seem to do ok. I abuse my boats but I expect
them to last. Anytime you beach your boat on an oyster bar you are
gonna get scratches. Having to apply a coat of paint more than once a
year is absurd.
In some areas, the voids seem to run in a linear pattern and then the
stuff is hopeless and the only solution is glass.

There ARE voids. It isn't spec'ed as no-void. Typically they are very
small. Pretty often, they can be filled with (waterproof) glue or a
combination of glue and sawdust, or paint even. Given the proper level of
care, a luan boat can last for years... many years. If the use (or abuse)
of the boat dictates alternative materials, don't be a cheapskate. Buy
better plywood. Sheesh.

Ed

They were my first boat projects and I had no idea how bad the stuff
was. Most of the voids are invisible until you suddenly find a weak
spot. I built a nesting dinghy from 1/4' marine ply and am very happy
with it.

) writes:
They were my first boat projects and I had no idea how bad the stuff
was. Most of the voids are invisible until you suddenly find a weak
spot. I built a nesting dinghy from 1/4' marine ply and am very happy
with it.


You can actually find the voids in lauan underlayment by shining a strong
light on it. I ran a small lamp with a metal shade which concentrated
the light over it. The voids show up as red streaks.

I can't find lauan underlayment locally any more. They sell meranti, which
is better quality with no surface checks or edge voids, or virola
which is light and flexible but more suceptable to rot.

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Lew Hodgett wrote:
wrote:

DO NOT use luan or gorilla glue if you value your life in your
homebuilt boat.


Why anybody would wasre time with that garbage is beyond me.

It is even useless on land based projects.

Totally overpriced and under peckered any way you look at it.

Gorrilla Glue and other polyurethane glues work really well IF AND ONLY
IF you use them properly in an appropriate application. To get good
results, you need to have a very close fitting seam and strong enough
clamping to prevent the glue from expanding in the seam (expansion
outside the seam is normal and not a problem). They should NEVER be used
to fill gaps! Edge gluing luan panels in a S&G boat is NOT a good
application for poly' glues.

You can't blame the glue for the failures of the builder.

Brian Nystrom ) writes:

Gorrilla Glue and other polyurethane glues work really well IF AND ONLY
IF you use them properly in an appropriate application. To get good
results, you need to have a very close fitting seam and strong enough
clamping to prevent the glue from expanding in the seam (expansion
outside the seam is normal and not a problem). They should NEVER be used
to fill gaps! Edge gluing luan panels in a S&G boat is NOT a good
application for poly' glues.

You can't blame the glue for the failures of the builder.

You have to differentiate between the polyurethane adhesives and
polyurethane mastics. The latter are the "liquid nails" type which come in
the tube for application with a caulking gun and do fill gaps. I squeeze
out a bead and spread it with a putty knife. It's still no excuse for
sloppy cutting and fitting. I knew a fellow who rough cut everything and
filled any gaps with polyester resin under fibreglass cloth. Just makes
for poor joins.



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I bought a bottle for ship model building. Worthless. Even though the
seams are fit quite well, the high clamping pressure is not available.

After reading the directions carefully, I gave it to my son.

Can anyone suggest a task where it would be superior to other adhesives?

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:n7x_e.4091$tX3.3158@trndny06...
Lew Hodgett wrote:
wrote:
DO NOT use luan or gorilla glue if you value your life in your
homebuilt boat.

Why anybody would wasre time with that garbage is beyond me.

It is even useless on land based projects.

Totally overpriced and under peckered any way you look at it.

Gorrilla Glue and other polyurethane glues work really well IF AND ONLY IF
you use them properly in an appropriate application. To get good results,
you need to have a very close fitting seam and strong enough clamping to
prevent the glue from expanding in the seam (expansion outside the seam is
normal and not a problem). They should NEVER be used to fill gaps! Edge
gluing luan panels in a S&G boat is NOT a good application for poly'
glues.

You can't blame the glue for the failures of the builder.

Goo'day,

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:16:26 GMT, "Roger Derby"
wrote:

I bought a bottle for ship model building. Worthless. Even though the
seams are fit quite well, the high clamping pressure is not available.

After reading the directions carefully, I gave it to my son.

What were the symptoms?
And did it work?
How long before it was effective?

g


Can anyone suggest a task where it would be superior to other adhesives?

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:n7x_e.4091$tX3.3158@trndny06...
Lew Hodgett wrote:
wrote:
DO NOT use luan or gorilla glue if you value your life in your
homebuilt boat.

Why anybody would wasre time with that garbage is beyond me.

It is even useless on land based projects.

Totally overpriced and under peckered any way you look at it.

Gorrilla Glue and other polyurethane glues work really well IF AND ONLY IF
you use them properly in an appropriate application. To get good results,
you need to have a very close fitting seam and strong enough clamping to
prevent the glue from expanding in the seam (expansion outside the seam is
normal and not a problem). They should NEVER be used to fill gaps! Edge
gluing luan panels in a S&G boat is NOT a good application for poly'
glues.

You can't blame the glue for the failures of the builder.

Regards,

Bruce Nichol
Talon Computer Services
ALBURY NSW Australia

http://www.taloncs.com.au

If it ain't broke, fix it until it is....

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:16:26 GMT, "Roger Derby"
wrote:

I bought a bottle for ship model building. Worthless. Even though the
seams are fit quite well, the high clamping pressure is not available.

After reading the directions carefully, I gave it to my son.

Can anyone suggest a task where it would be superior to other adhesives?

Possibly butt blocks? clamping pressure is dependant on how much
stuff you can pile on top of it...




email: dave-afo at mchsi dot com

please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!

Roger Derby wrote:
I bought a bottle for ship model building. Worthless. Even though the
seams are fit quite well, the high clamping pressure is not available.

After reading the directions carefully, I gave it to my son.

Can anyone suggest a task where it would be superior to other adhesives?

Roger

I've found that it works very well for laminating and edge gluing
tightly fitted seams. It's waterproof, so it works in applications where
moisture exposure is likely. While epoxy works well in similar
applications, poly's don't require mixing and thickening. They won't
damaged edged tools as you work the wood. Surface cleanup is easier,
since you can just scrape off poly' residue. It's also good for bonding
oak, which can be problematic with epoxy due to it's acidity. I use
poly's where these characteristics are important. A perfect example is
laminating the blanks and oak edges for kayak paddles that will be
carved primarily with hand tools.

The important thing with ANY adhesive is that you understand how it
works so you can use it correctly and for appropriate applications.
There is no "universal" glue that works well for everything.

I use it as a replacement for urea forlaydehyde (plastic resin) adhesive.
The polyurethane cures at 50 deg F instead of 70 deg F and the pieces can be
repositioned up to 45 minutes after application.

Like the other poster I've used it for laminating, ie gluing two pieces of
plywood together to make a thiker piece, using weights while curing.

I mostly use polyurethane mastic with screws in chine batten constuction
instead of the more costly taped seam construction with epoxy (although
David Bead at www.simplicityboats.com) has been experimenting with
polyuretyane taped seam construction. I use inexpensive zinc plated wood
screws which eliminates the need to buy clamps to hold
pieces togehter while curing. Sometimes I remove the screws after the glue
has set and fill the screw holes with drops of polyester resin. I like to
build small, cheap, lightweight, boats I can pickup and carry in one hand.

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Unfortunately, I just followed the directions on the bottle of Gorilla
Glue that really do not emphasize the required clamping. It may have
some applications but as it seems tricky to use, I will avoid it. I
lalso wonder if it is really "waterproof" since I seem to be seeing it
give up on prolonged saturation.

W. Watt:
Your use of a light to spot voids is interesting.

Your use of a light to spot voids is interesting.

It works for thin plywood.
Someone repeated here what he read in a book of a boatbuilder noticing a void
from the way dew settled on the hull overnight.

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William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
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Your use of a light to spot voids is interesting.

That's standard procedure among people who use Lauan for boat building.
It's more or less a necessity, due to the prevalence of voids in the
material.

That's nice to read. I first reported my discovery of the technique in
this here newsgroup back in late 1999 when building my first boat
(Dogskiff) out of the cheap plywood. :)



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Da$^$%# Luan and Garbage Glue
 

I can't find lauan underlayment locally any more. They sell meranti,
which
is better quality with no surface checks or edge voids,

Meranti and lauan are two different names for the same wood. The
former if it comes from Malaysia and the latter if it comes from the
Philippines.

Mike


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