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career question
I'm not sure if this is where to ask, but I've tried writing some
people who make canoes/boats for a living and most don't seem to want to respond (can't say I blame them). Is it possible to make a decent living making canoes (cedar strip ones)? Is it a pipe dream that's not worth even trying? thanks for any help |
If you are willing to suffer for the first 4 or 5 years maybe so. A well
built 16' stripper can sell for $3-4K but between materials, shop space rent, tool costs, insurance, taxes, sales commissions etc. you will be luck to net half that on each one. You would have to turn out more than one a month to survive and while it can be done it will take a lot of discipline. Once you get some volume up you can buy material in volume and time for price. As you build a customer base and a reputation you might sell 40-50 or so a year but you will have to hire some help to do it which cuts your margin considerably.. I am guessing that the upper limit on the before tax net income for a really well known stripper builder might be in the neighborhood of $50K. After that you will be managing a factory which is not as much fun as building canoes. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Blazer Fan Dan" wrote in message ups.com... I'm not sure if this is where to ask, but I've tried writing some people who make canoes/boats for a living and most don't seem to want to respond (can't say I blame them). Is it possible to make a decent living making canoes (cedar strip ones)? Is it a pipe dream that's not worth even trying? thanks for any help |
Glenn Ashmore wrote: If you are willing to suffer for the first 4 or 5 years maybe so. A well built 16' stripper can sell for $3-4K but between materials, shop space rent, tool costs, insurance, taxes, sales commissions etc. you will be luck to net half that on each one. well, space, tools and what not, are all already in my possession. You would have to turn out more than one a month to survive and while it can be done it will take a lot of discipline. Once you get some volume up you can buy material in volume and time for price. As you build a customer base and a reputation you might sell 40-50 or so a year but you will have to hire some help to do it which cuts your margin considerably.. I am guessing that the upper limit on the before tax net income for a really well known stripper builder might be in the neighborhood of $50K. After that you will be managing a factory which is not as much fun as building canoes. im not expecting to make a whole mother load, just enough for a single guy to live decently on (meaning: I won't starve) -- Glenn Ashmore |
On 11 Sep 2005 19:12:41 -0700, "Blazer Fan Dan"
wrote: I'm not sure if this is where to ask, but I've tried writing some people who make canoes/boats for a living and most don't seem to want to respond (can't say I blame them). Is it possible to make a decent living making canoes (cedar strip ones)? Is it a pipe dream that's not worth even trying? thanks for any help I doubt it. A semi-retired peson may supplment their income but to make a decent living you'd have to be so prolific churning out the canoes it wouldn't be much fun. |
I've tried and the answer is no.
Strip canoes and kayaks in particular are a tough sell. The number of hours in one is high enough that you need to charge a price that very few will pay. There are very good composite canoes on the market at lower prices, and it's hard to get someone to pay an extra $1000 for a strip boat which, even if it is prettier, is no lighter, no stronger and needs more maintenance. "Blazer Fan Dan" wrote in message ups.com... I'm not sure if this is where to ask, but I've tried writing some people who make canoes/boats for a living and most don't seem to want to respond (can't say I blame them). Is it possible to make a decent living making canoes (cedar strip ones)? Is it a pipe dream that's not worth even trying? thanks for any help |
"Blazer Fan Dan" wrote well, space, tools and what not, are all already in my possession. I have let several young furniture makers use my shop to get started and run into this all the time. It is always hard to get these facts across to beginning craftsmen. Space costs money even if you own it. You have to heat it, maintain it, insure it and pay taxes on it. In time you will need more of it to store material and products. If you were not using it you could sell it or probably rent it out so to be completely accurate you should include that in your costs. After all if you are only netting $1,000 a month but could rent out the space for $500 is all that effort worth the extra $500? Similarly tools cost money. You have to have things repaired and replaced, buy blades and abrasives and occasionally add to the repertoire. I work weekends and nights, maybe 25 hours a week, and have to budget at least $100 month in tool maintenance and supplies. Unless you are willing to give a lot of your profit to your suppiler for finished strips you will have to invest in a good jointer, planer and shaper. Preferably with power feeds as milling a few miles of strip is a mind numbing job. And don't forget the power bill. Lights, power tools and air compressors use a supprising amount of it. im not expecting to make a whole mother load, just enough for a single guy to live decently on (meaning: I won't starve) And how much is that? To stay just above the poverty level you will have to produce and sell 12 - 15 hulls a year. You also have to sell them. That means spending a lot of time taking your boats to boat and craft shows and other outdoor events where people can see them. Can you build 1 or 2 a month and still spend a third of your time selling them? Over time, if you build an exceptionally good quality product at a reasonable price, you will build a reputation and people will start coming to you so your selling time will go down and your prices can go up. But the first 4 or 5 years will be very tough. I am not saying don't do it. In fact I spend a lot of time encouraging young craftsmen and artisans. But you have to understand the business end of it or you won't last long enough to build a reputation. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Look at www.cedarboats.com. Been in business since about 1940 making cedar strip boats. The fibreglassed over cedar strip canoes and kayaks are such good home build projects because they are so labour intensive and you don't pay anything for your own labour. Same for the skin over frame boats. Lots and lots of fiddly little pieces to put together - takes a lot of time. If you can find weatlhy clients who will pay for the uniqueness and attractiveness of the wood grain and will pay a high price for it, then you can probably make a living at it. Better still, stop being single, get an understanding wife with a good paying job, and go for it. BTW don't forget cost of insurance, accountant, etc. Running a small business can be a pain in the butt. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
William R. Watt wrote: Look at www.cedarboats.com. Been in business since about 1940 making cedar strip boats. The fibreglassed over cedar strip canoes and kayaks are such good home build projects because they are so labour intensive and you don't pay anything for your own labour. Same for the skin over frame boats. Lots and lots of fiddly little pieces to put together - takes a lot of time. If you can find weatlhy clients who will pay for the uniqueness and attractiveness of the wood grain and will pay a high price for it, then you can probably make a living at it. Better still, stop being single, get an understanding wife with a good paying job, and go for it. if the last part was only that easy. ;) BTW don't forget cost of insurance, accountant, etc. Running a small business can be a pain in the butt. insurance of what sort? |
Insurance is desirable for:
- the physical assets - building, tools, tooling, inventory - product liability - The care of you and your employees- health, Workman's comp, etc. "Blazer Fan Dan" wrote in message ... insurance of what sort? |
Jim Conlin wrote: Insurance is desirable for: - the physical assets - building, tools, tooling, inventory - product liability - The care of you and your employees- health, Workman's comp, etc. well luckily, I don't have to worry about most of those right off the bat. It'd be me, a place I don't have to worry about insurance on (in a sense) and some other things that don't apply. |
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