Gorilla glue anyone???
 

Man, I used this stuff for the first time, last week, and have seen
nothing like it! Ease of use (no mixing), and strength. I glued a scrap
piece of 2 X 4 together (90 degree angle) and when set-up, I could not break
the joint!! I had to swing it "sledge hammer" style to finally break the
test piece...and you probably guessed what's coming next...It did NOT break
the glue joint, but the wood around it. Any reason NOT to use this in place
of epoxy for adhesive when building the frame work for my "Glen-L ZZZip"???
Thanks for any input. Norm

Norm:

Search within this newsgroup (Google/Groups) for "PU Glue" and
specifically the thread "Gorilla glue good for marine use?".

You'll find that this has been dealt with extensively in the past.

MW

Norm II wrote:
Man, I used this stuff for the first time, last week, and have seen
nothing like it! Ease of use (no mixing), and strength. I glued a scrap
piece of 2 X 4 together (90 degree angle) and when set-up, I could not break
the joint!! I had to swing it "sledge hammer" style to finally break the
test piece...and you probably guessed what's coming next...It did NOT break
the glue joint, but the wood around it. Any reason NOT to use this in place
of epoxy for adhesive when building the frame work for my "Glen-L ZZZip"???

There are a couple of caveats with PU glues. To get any the maximum
strength out of it, it must be prevented from expanding. If allowed to
foam, it loses nearly all its strength. So:

1) The parts to be joined must be carefully fitted. Gaps must be kept to
an absolute minimum. Do not use PU glue in gap-filling applications!

2) The parts must be tightly clamped, otherwise the glue will expand and
force them apart. I've also found that PU glues are very slippery and
parts will tend to move in relation to each other unless they're
carefully controlled.

Whether this fits with the project you have in mind is for you to determine.

You've noted some of the advantages of PU glue and I'll add one to the
list. It doesn't damage cutting tools the way harder glues like epoxy can.

Huh?

I do my epoxy gluing with wood flour thickened System Three, and, to the
best of my knowledge, it cuts like wood. ("Wood" covers a broad range of
characteristics.)

What brand of epoxy is hard enough to damage cutting tools?

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:GkRwe.11950$JM6.6541@trndny05...

You've noted some of the advantages of PU glue and I'll add one to the
list. It doesn't damage cutting tools the way harder glues like epoxy can.

Thanks for the input. Thanks also for pointing out how to search for
previous posts on the subject. I don't like to be a bother with "newbie
questions". I'll certainly check first before being redundant. I'll be using
PU adhesives for now on with good fitting joints, as it is so nice to be
able to use "straight out of the bottle" versus mixing up a "little bit" and
scrambling trying to find a place to "use" the leftover. Thanks again!
Norm

PU glue should be fine for screwed and glued joints. I use the PL Premuim
construction adhesive that way. With the feinforcment of the wood screws it
fills gaps just fine. It acts as an adhesive bedding. I've also removed
the wood scews after the glue has dried on 2 small boats (bottom skids)
and have had no sign of separation in 3 years. The boats are stored
upside down outside exposed to weather. They don't spend much
(enough) time in the water.

"Norm II" ) writes:
Thanks for the input. Thanks also for pointing out how to search for
previous posts on the subject. I don't like to be a bother with "newbie
questions". I'll certainly check first before being redundant. I'll be using
PU adhesives for now on with good fitting joints, as it is so nice to be
able to use "straight out of the bottle" versus mixing up a "little bit" and
scrambling trying to find a place to "use" the leftover. Thanks again!
Norm




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PU glue should be fine for screwed and glued joints. I use the PL Premuim
construction adhesive that way. With the feinforcment of the wood screws
it
fills gaps just fine. It acts as an adhesive bedding. I've also removed
the wood scews after the glue has dried on 2 small boats (bottom skids)
and have had no sign of separation in 3 years. The boats are stored
upside down outside exposed to weather. They don't spend much
(enough) time in the water.


What exactly is PL Premium...Something I can find at Home Depot?? Thanks.
Norm

Do not use it. DO NOT USE IT. I used it for my two MiniCups and now
regret it. It has no strength in gap filling. It loses its strength
after prolonged immersion (like if you get water in a floatation tank).
Use epoxy instead.
I essentially had to take apart my MiniCups;
one nearly fell apart due to the Gorilla Glue weakening, to remove the
weakened Gorilla Glue and to fillet all the joints with epoxy.
I have used Gorilla Glue to repair chairs and within a month they
needed to be repaired again. I then used epoxy and they are solid
months later.

Joints which were glued with Gorilla Glue and then screwed together (on
the boats) easily came apart by prying, the glue failed. I was
horrified when I saw how weak this stuff is.

Subject

Over priced and under peckered.

Strictly garbage IMHO.

Lew

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:LT8xe.14504$Q27.5022@trndny02...
wrote:
Joints which were glued with Gorilla Glue and then screwed together (on
the boats) easily came apart by prying, the glue failed. I was
horrified when I saw how weak this stuff is.

If the joints were that weak, the screws must not have clamped them
tight enough and the glue expanded. The same is probably true of your
chair repairs. With tight joints, the wood will fail before the glue
does. You CANNOT use PU glue to fill gaps; it says that right on the
bottle. Epoxy is definitely more forgiving and does fill gaps well, but
you can't blame the PU glue if you use it improperly or in the wrong
application.

But the problem with boats is that you cannot make tight joints most of the
time. It's almost impossible to apply 4kg/cm2 on a joint which is several
meters long.

Meindert

"Norm II" ) writes:

What exactly is PL Premium...Something I can find at Home Depot?? Thanks.

It's a different formulation of polyurethane (PU) adhesive, a mastic in a
clauking tube often referred to as "liquid nails", used in house
construction. PL Premium is supposed to be their stongest althoug I'm not
sure it's any better than the slightly cheaper PL400. You can find them at
any building material store. I don't shop at Home Depot but they are sure
to stock it. Here in Ottawa I get it for a lower price at Canadian Tire.

David Beede has done some trials with different polyurethane mastics and
put the results on his website at www.simplicityboats.com. I think it's a
good replacement for urea formaldehyde (plastic resin) marine adhesive
(Weldwood was a popular brand). I used plastic resin on my first small
plywood boat (Dogskiff on my website) and PL Premuim on the other three.

PL Premuim is a lot easier to work with. You lay a 1/4" bead on one
surface. I spread that with a putty knife to get it right to the edge and
to get complete and even coverage in the joint. You can reposition the
parts up to 45 minutes. Then clamp (or use screws) and allow 24 hr to
cure. You can even pump it into voids in cheap plywood to fill them. If
the glue gets on your hands it dries flexible and stays for days. If you
don't want dirty-looking hands afterwards, wear gloves.

I don't think you can get a more suitable adhesive at a better price
for a small screw-and-glue boat like the OSS.

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On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 04:24:44 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

Subject

Over priced and under peckered.

Strictly garbage IMHO.

Lew

Yes, but what do you really feel? Don't hold back now.

I agree. Another miracle product bites the dust.

"Meindert Sprang" ) writes:

But the problem with boats is that you cannot make tight joints most of the
time. It's almost impossible to apply 4kg/cm2 on a joint which is several
meters long.

So true. If it weren't for the precision fit on the cheap boats I throw
together, PL Premium would have failed. Maybe my aim is a little better
than Mini-cup builders. Not by much I'd wager. PL Premium expands, fills
gaps, and holds just fine thanks. I've never had to mix it with any kind
of filler as I do with epoxy and did with "plastic resin".


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I admit, my building skills are poor. However, I'd still not reccomend
Gorilla Glue to anybody building boats. I used enough screws that it
should have held better. I also think that if you are going to spend
all that time building a boat, dont you want it to last?

Meindert Sprang wrote:
"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:LT8xe.14504$Q27.5022@trndny02...

wrote:

Joints which were glued with Gorilla Glue and then screwed together (on
the boats) easily came apart by prying, the glue failed. I was
horrified when I saw how weak this stuff is.

If the joints were that weak, the screws must not have clamped them
tight enough and the glue expanded. The same is probably true of your
chair repairs. With tight joints, the wood will fail before the glue
does. You CANNOT use PU glue to fill gaps; it says that right on the
bottle. Epoxy is definitely more forgiving and does fill gaps well, but
you can't blame the PU glue if you use it improperly or in the wrong
application.


But the problem with boats is that you cannot make tight joints most of the
time. It's almost impossible to apply 4kg/cm2 on a joint which is several
meters long.

Fine, then use an adhesive more appropriate to the task.

DSK wrote:
wrote:

Do not use it. DO NOT USE IT. I used it for my two MiniCups and now
regret it. It has no strength in gap filling.


Well, sure. That's one of the really great things about epoxy & fillers.
Of course, it means old-time precision ship carpentry is a thing of the
past, but we don't need it.

I have used Gorilla Glue to repair chairs and within a month they
needed to be repaired again. I then used epoxy and they are solid
months later.


I wonder if Gorilla Glue has a very low number of fatigue cycles to
failure. Another amazing thing about epoxy!

In an appropriate application, either one is stonger than the
surrounding wood. The concept of fatigue cycles doesn't even apply,
since the weak link is the wood, not the adhesive.

Don't misunderstand and think that I have something against epoxy or
that I'm claiming that PU glue is a viable substitute for it in every
application. That's not true at all. I just don't like seeing a good
product get maligned because someone used it improperly and got a bad
result.

I definitely used it as per instructions. I also used screws every 3"
to hold stringers to the ply with the Gorilla Glue. When I took the
boat apart, I was easily able to pry them apart after removing the
screws. There is no doubt there was sufficient clamping force.
In my furniture repairs, I also followed the directions and clamped
things well and the Gorilla Glue failed. I do not believe I am an
idiot so I tend to think that if I followed the directions and was
careful and it did not work, there may be a problem. It seems that
epoxy is more firgiving.

I prefer epoxy, but I find Gorilla Glue is the better
glue when your wood is very wet & green, or if you
are working outside in the rain.

Epoxy doesn't stick with very wet conditions,
but Gorilla Glue sticks best when water is
present. Indeed, I usually wet down the
mating surfaces with a spray bottle of water
prior to applying the glue.

I would use Gorilla Glue more if it weren't
so expensive. Thickened epoxy is cheaper
and usually better.