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Does my small sailboat need a boom?
Warning: I also posted this question in rec.boats since I couldn't find
a sailboat specific newsgroup... Newbie question: I was given an old, very small sailboat (just 8' or 9'). The hull was in a poor state but the sail and mast were in good condition. I cleaned the hull and repainted the boat and it now is seaworthy. Well, almost seaworthy. The people giving it away told me that two things were missing and they could no longer find them: the centerboard and the rudder. I figured I could probably build these things so I agreed to take the boat. I have yet to build a basic centerboard and rudder for it but I also realized that the boat does not have a boom! Is it possible that, given that it is such a small boat, it may not require one? I cannot figure out if they simply forgot to give me the boom (unfortunately I cannot contact them anymore), if they didn't have a boom anymore or this type of small boat simply doesn't need one... If it does require one, how difficult would it be to make a simple one and what material (wood, metal, etc.) would be most appropriate. Keep in mind that I am not trying to turn this thing into a competition sailboat. Just want something to float around and have something to play around with on a windy day (when it is too wavy to waterski behind my powerboat). Cheers! Andre |
If the bottom of the sail is more than 5 ft long you should have a boom. This advice comes from books by TF Jones who desgins and builds small sailboats. You can look at photos of boonmless small sails on my website (see below) under "Boats". I don't think you can have a boomless sail which extends aft of your seating position although I'm not certain of this on the spur of the moment. Mine have mainsheets I hold directly in my hand and to pull them in close hauled I have to be just aft of the clew (bottom back corner of the sail). A sprit boom is cheap and simple. It is tied to the mast so it does not require hardware. On my website you can see booms tied to the front of the sail. They have some advantages which are discussed on the website. "Melandre" ) writes: that two things were missing and they could no longer find them: the centerboard and the rudder. I figured I could probably build these things so I agreed to take the Suggest plywood, round the front edge and taper the back edge, then seal edges with 2-3 coats of resin (polyester or epoxy). Another quick and easy suggestion is discarded aluminum traffic signs (eg No Parking) cut to shape. I can buy them at a scrap yard near here. The centreboard should not be too loose in the case or it will vibrate. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
Melandre wrote:
Warning: I also posted this question in rec.boats since I couldn't find a sailboat specific newsgroup... Newbie question: I was given an old, very small sailboat (just 8' or 9'). The hull was in a poor state but the sail and mast were in good condition. I cleaned the hull and repainted the boat and it now is seaworthy. Well, almost seaworthy. The people giving it away told me that two things were missing and they could no longer find them: the centerboard and the rudder. I figured I could probably build these things so I agreed to take the boat. I have yet to build a basic centerboard and rudder for it but I also realized that the boat does not have a boom! Is it possible that, given that it is such a small boat, it may not require one? I cannot figure out if they simply forgot to give me the boom (unfortunately I cannot contact them anymore), if they didn't have a boom anymore or this type of small boat simply doesn't need one... If it does require one, how difficult would it be to make a simple one and what material (wood, metal, etc.) would be most appropriate. Keep in mind that I am not trying to turn this thing into a competition sailboat. Just want something to float around and have something to play around with on a windy day (when it is too wavy to waterski behind my powerboat). Cheers! Andre There will be as many opinions as there are sailors. No, you do not NEED a boom. You may want one, after trying all the other styles, and even inventing some new ones yourself. Gaffs, sprits, and no doubt other rigs are possible, even desirable in a tiny boat. What is best for you as a begineing sailor may also be a matter of opinion. Many sailors think the best way to learn to sail is to get dumped out of a dinghy often enough! The size and location of your mast will influence the decision. If far enough foreward, a cat rig does not use a jib. If aft, you may want to use a main only at first, to get the feel. Adding a jib would give more thrills and speed. How is the flotation of your dingus, once filled with water? you should expect to get capsized, and the boat should not sink. You will want to be able to lower the sail before righting the boat and climbing back inside. Terry K |
Terry Spragg ) writes: you should expect to get capsized, and the boat should not sink. You will want to be able to lower the sail before righting the boat and climbing back inside. I've never taken the sail down on a dingy to right the boat after a capsize. People don't do it when racing. Houwever you make a good point on rig design. A lot of masts are designed to bend and change the shape of the sail with changes in wind speed. The boom and stays (wires which hold up the mast) play a part in this so it might not be a good idea to change the boom. It would depend on the sail and rigging. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:25:43 -0700, Melandre wrote:
Warning: I also posted this question in rec.boats since I couldn't find a sailboat specific newsgroup... Newbie question: I was given an old, very small sailboat (just 8' or 9'). The hull was in a poor state but the sail and mast were in good condition. I cleaned the hull and repainted the boat and it now is seaworthy. Well, almost seaworthy. The people giving it away told me that two things were missing and they could no longer find them: the centerboard and the rudder. I figured I could probably build these things so I agreed to take the boat. I have yet to build a basic centerboard and rudder for it but I also realized that the boat does not have a boom! Is it possible that, given that it is such a small boat, it may not require one? I cannot figure out if they simply forgot to give me the boom (unfortunately I cannot contact them anymore), if they didn't have a boom anymore or this type of small boat simply doesn't need one... If it does require one, how difficult would it be to make a simple one and what material (wood, metal, etc.) would be most appropriate. Keep in mind that I am not trying to turn this thing into a competition sailboat. Just want something to float around and have something to play around with on a windy day (when it is too wavy to waterski behind my powerboat). Cheers! Andre Some small boats don't have booms. Could you possibly take a picture which shows the sail and hull and mast? It might help. Making a boom for such a small boat should be easy. I would try to make it out of the same material as the mast. Wood would probably be the cheapest way to go. --Mac |
As others have told you, you do not NEED a boom. That said, a boom does
make life easier. Except when running before the wind, your sail should form an airfoil, like the top of an airplane's wing. A boomless rig needs a fairlead for the sheet in the proper place. With a boom, sail shape is independent of the degree to which you sheet in the sail. (Don't bring it in closer than the corner of the transom.) A sailboat of that size probably has some 35 or 40 sq. ft. of sail. An adequate boom would be about 1" x 1" (wood) with a yoke (jaws ) like an enlarged sling shot to keep the forward end near the mast. The "tack" of the sail (bottom forward corner) attaches to the boom and the boom is held down either by its weight or by a line. Now the sheet can be attached to any point on the boom and/or the boat and a two part mechanical advantage will make life easier. Boomless, the point where the sheet attaches to the boat is critical and you'd need a block on the sail's clew to gain any advantage. The wood for the boom should have grain that runs for much of the length before reaching the edge. The size of the rudder and centerboard will make a big difference to the boat's handling. It would be nice if you could get the name of the design or some other indication that would lead to the designer's plans. (Are you sure it's a centerboard rather than a daggerboard?) Roger http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm "Melandre" wrote in message oups.com... Newbie question: I was given an old, very small sailboat (just 8' or 9'). The hull was in a poor state but the sail and mast were in good condition. I cleaned the hull and repainted the boat and it now is seaworthy. Well, almost seaworthy. The people giving it away told me that two things were missing and they could no longer find them: the centerboard and the rudder. I figured I could probably build these things so I agreed to take the boat. I have yet to build a basic centerboard and rudder for it but I also realized that the boat does not have a boom! Is it possible that, given that it is such a small boat, it may not require one? I cannot figure out if they simply forgot to give me the boom (unfortunately I cannot contact them anymore), if they didn't have a boom anymore or this type of small boat simply doesn't need one... If it does require one, how difficult would it be to make a simple one and what material (wood, metal, etc.) would be most appropriate. Keep in mind that I am not trying to turn this thing into a competition sailboat. Just want something to float around and have something to play around with on a windy day (when it is too wavy to waterski behind my powerboat). Cheers! Andre |
WOW! Glad to be getting all these feedback. Very useful. I realized
that I should have been a bit more descriptive about the boat. I'll take a picture of it tonight and post a link to the picture for those of you who wish to see it. Unfortunately the mast and sail are already at my cabin while the boat is still at my home (so only pic of the boat tonight). I think it is a catboat design but not sure. The mast is metal (or aluminum) and is quite long (my guess is 14 feet or more). Sail is triangular if I recall correctly. I have not put the boat in the water yet since I am not sure if it would float without a centreboard (I'm planning to tow it behind my boat to the cabin). By the way, I did not know that there was a difference between a centreboard and a daggerboard. Until someone explains the difference, I only mean "the piece of wood that you stick through the (near) middle of the boat" :-) I know my old winsurfing board uses a daggerboard so perhaps I should stick to that name for the sailboat! I will also measure and take picture of the opening (under the boat) for the daggerboard/centreboard (from memory it is about 1/2" X 20") as I would like to know how far it should stick out in the water from the hull. Any WEB sites where I could look at daggerboard/centreboard and rudders so that I can pick (and copy) a design that appears suitable? Thank for everyone's help so far. Keep those suggestions/ideas coming! Andre Melandre wrote: Warning: I also posted this question in rec.boats since I couldn't find a sailboat specific newsgroup... Newbie question: I was given an old, very small sailboat (just 8' or 9'). The hull was in a poor state but the sail and mast were in good condition. I cleaned the hull and repainted the boat and it now is seaworthy. Well, almost seaworthy. The people giving it away told me that two things were missing and they could no longer find them: the centerboard and the rudder. I figured I could probably build these things so I agreed to take the boat. I have yet to build a basic centerboard and rudder for it but I also realized that the boat does not have a boom! Is it possible that, given that it is such a small boat, it may not require one? I cannot figure out if they simply forgot to give me the boom (unfortunately I cannot contact them anymore), if they didn't have a boom anymore or this type of small boat simply doesn't need one... If it does require one, how difficult would it be to make a simple one and what material (wood, metal, etc.) would be most appropriate. Keep in mind that I am not trying to turn this thing into a competition sailboat. Just want something to float around and have something to play around with on a windy day (when it is too wavy to waterski behind my powerboat). Cheers! Andre |
"Melandre" ) writes: ... I have not put the boat in the water yet since I am not sure if it would float without a centreboard (I'm planning to tow it behind my boat to the cabin). By the way, I did not know that there was a difference between a centreboard and a daggerboard. Until someone explains the difference, I only mean "the piece of wood that you stick through the (near) middle of the boat" :-) I know my old winsurfing board uses a daggerboard so perhaps I should stick to that name for the sailboat! Centreboard swings up into the boat on a pivot. If you put the boat in the water without the pivot water will come in through the pivot hole. The pivot is usually a bolt that goes through the centreboard trunk. It has rubber washers on it to seal. Look for the pivot hole in the casing at the bottom near the front. If you stuff something into the pivot hole you should be able to tow the boat without a centreboard in it. A daggerboard doesn't have a pivot hole so there is no problem. If you can't find spec for the board there is a rule of thumb which I will look up, says one square foot of board below the water for every so many square feet of sail. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
William R. Watt ) writes: If you can't find spec for the board there is a rule of thumb which I will look up, says one square foot of board below the water for every so many square feet of sail. one square foot for every 40-50 sq foot of sail - source TF Jones "Boats to Go" (1996) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
A cap for the daggerboard trunk is worth the investment. Otherwise the
water can spray/splash up in an unpleasant fashion. The cap is just a Tee shaped piece (viewed from aft) with a stub for the daggerboard and a top piece as handle and lid. Depending on the hull shape, a little (3" ?) daggerboard protruding from the bottom gives the rudder something to work against. At least on the Sunfish, no daggerboard means no steering. Roger http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm "William R. Watt" wrote in message ... "Melandre" ) writes: ... I have not put the boat in the water yet since I am not sure if it would float without a centreboard (I'm planning to tow it behind my boat to the cabin). By the way, I did not know that there was a difference between a centreboard and a daggerboard. Until snip Centreboard swings up into the boat on a pivot. If you put the boat in the water without the pivot water will come in through the pivot hole. The pivot is usually a bolt that goes through the centreboard trunk. It has rubber washers on it to seal. Look for the pivot hole in the casing at the bottom near the front. If you stuff something into the pivot hole you should be able to tow the boat without a centreboard in it. A daggerboard doesn't have a pivot hole so there is no problem. If you can't find spec for the board there is a rule of thumb which I will look up, says one square foot of board below the water for every so many square feet of sail. |
"Roger Derby" ) writes: Depending on the hull shape, a little (3" ?) daggerboard protruding from the bottom gives the rudder something to work against. At least on the Sunfish, no daggerboard means no steering. I had a 20 ft centreboard boat with an auxilliary outboard motor. Nobody told me to put the centreboard down when using the motor. It was quite a challenge trying to motor in and out among the moorings, impossible with any wind blowing. Had to sail in and out of the harbour picking my way among the moored boats. Today I would drop the centreboard a tad. :) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
Yeah. I marked my (painted white) daggerboard with a felt tip marker to
show how many inches were below the keel and then experimented with various depths vs. point-of-sail. Zero was never the correct answer unless you were running up on the beach. Roger http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm "William R. Watt" wrote in message ... "Roger Derby" ) writes: Depending on the hull shape, a little (3" ?) daggerboard protruding from the bottom gives the rudder something to work against. At least on the Sunfish, no daggerboard means no steering. I had a 20 ft centreboard boat with an auxilliary outboard motor. Nobody told me to put the centreboard down when using the motor. It was quite a challenge trying to motor in and out among the moorings, impossible with any wind blowing. Had to sail in and out of the harbour picking my way among the moored boats. Today I would drop the centreboard a tad. :) |
For those interested, here are a few pictures...
http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat2.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat3.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat4.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat5.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat6.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat7.jpg The daggerboard (now that I know the difference) space is about 1" X 11". Andre |
OK. Now what shape is the sail? Three sided or four?
You'll need pintles for the new rudder, so measure the diameter of the holes in the gudgeons. Make sure one pintle is longer than the other -- it makes hanging the rudder MUCH easier. Check out http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/sto...s/gudgeons.htm or http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/ == Marine Hardware == Gudgeons and Pintles I couldn't tell if your gudgeons were bronze or stainless. I'd match the material. The tiller will give you an opportunity to get creative. Attaching it to the rudder can be done in many ways. I'll send you a photo of the scheme prescribed by Danny Greene for Chameleon, a nesting dinghy I built. Note that the tiller is pivoted at the rear of the rudder head and slotted to fit down over the rudder. No high stress fittings required and it folds to stow neatly. (The photo was taken during construction and it looks better with paint and varnish applied.) Roger http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm "Melandre" wrote in message ... For those interested, here are a few pictures... http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat.jpg The daggerboard (now that I know the difference) space is about 1" X 11". Andre |
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:24:17 +0000, Melandre wrote:
For those interested, here are a few pictures... http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat2.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat3.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat4.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat5.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat6.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat7.jpg The daggerboard (now that I know the difference) space is about 1" X 11". Andre That's a reasonably nice little boat. I bet it uses a boom. When you get a chance, though, post pictures of the sails and mast. If the mast has an obvious boom fitting on it, that will be a clincher. ;-) You may want to start another thread if it's going to be a while before you can post the sail/mast pictures. Have fun with your project. And I would consider putting a proper foil shape on the rudder and dagger-board, but maybe that is just me. You could conceivably get them cut for you out of foam at flyingfoam.com. They make wings for radio-controlled gliders and airplanes. You don't have to tell them that your "wing" is really for a rudder on a boat. ;-) You would just coat the foam with fiberglass, fair it and you are done. It's just an idea. I haven't actually done this. --Mac |
For those interested, here are a few pictures... Looks like a yacht tender, one of those small boats you see upside down on the deck of a cruising sailboat. They tend not to be sailed so much as rowed around harbours which explains sailing parts getting mislaid. Can't remember seeing oarlocks in the photos. You can change the rudder mounting hardware if you want. David Bead had photos of a simple homemade arrangement for his Summer Breeze at www.simplicityboats.com. Light mast step and three "hoops" on gunwale forward suggest stayed rig (mast held up by wires or ropes). Forward placing of mast suggests no jib. Just guessing. Pulley at mast step and cleat on seat next to daggerboard slot used to raise and tie off sail. Purpose of piece of metal on back edge of seat unkown to me. Good idea to weigh boat if possible. Can use bathroom scales and piece of lumber for a lever plus simple arithmetic. Also weigh mast, daggerboard, rudder, sail, ropes. To total add your weigth and have "displacement". Also neat to find center of balance by positioning on 2x4 laid crosswise on ground. Sealed space under seat would be floatation tank. If big ocean wave fills boat with water it should still float. Look for optional drain plug on floatation tank. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
Just throw a 1x10 in the dagger board case (put a couple of holes in the top
for some bolts so that it doesn't slide right down). Screw the boom. Booms are called booms because they go "boom" when they hit you in the head. You don't need one to make the boat move. Once you get proficient at sailing this particular boat, then you can throw up a closet pole for the boom. Just put the boat in the water and have fun. If it sinks, you'll get wet. Big deal. -John "Melandre" wrote in message ... For those interested, here are a few pictures... http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat2.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat3.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat4.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat5.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat6.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/melanie4/Sailboat7.jpg The daggerboard (now that I know the difference) space is about 1" X 11". Andre |
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