I need help to designing a motor boat.
 

Ok Im def a newB to Boat building and such however my friend and i
would like to build a boat we could use around the intercoastal and in
the ocean for short distances. I was hoping i could build one that
would fit up to 6 people. I would like it to be anywhere from 18 to 24
feet long. We played with the idea of jet propulsion but am not 100 %
sure thats a good idea. So if anyone could explain the different hull
designs and places i could go and get some designs for building a power
boat that can move anywhere from 15 to 20 knots. Hold 6 people. Be
stable enough to withstand some waves (1-3 feet light/moderately
choppy).Relativley easy to build. Cost is an issue so hopefully it wont
cost too much. It soundslike im asking for alot. Any information and
help would be very appriciated.

Marcus Davis a.k.a T-BirdMan

Check out the boats he

http://fishyfish.com/tolmanskiff.html (scroll way down to find lots of
links to projects, pictures, etcetera)

These boats have a long strong reputation in Alaska in coastal waters and
people have done virtually everything with them from open with center or
side console to full-blown cabins on stretch versions of the longer ones.
You can ask questions of current builders and owners he

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tolmanskiff (Yahoo builders forum)

Brian



"TBirdMan1986" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok Im def a newB to Boat building and such however my friend and i
would like to build a boat we could use around the intercoastal and in
the ocean for short distances. I was hoping i could build one that
would fit up to 6 people. I would like it to be anywhere from 18 to 24
feet long. We played with the idea of jet propulsion but am not 100 %
sure thats a good idea. So if anyone could explain the different hull
designs and places i could go and get some designs for building a power
boat that can move anywhere from 15 to 20 knots. Hold 6 people. Be
stable enough to withstand some waves (1-3 feet light/moderately
choppy).Relativley easy to build. Cost is an issue so hopefully it wont
cost too much. It soundslike im asking for alot. Any information and
help would be very appriciated.

Marcus Davis a.k.a T-BirdMan

Hi

When you ask 15 to 20 knots I don\t think the tradisional trawler types
are the best choice , to profit from new technikes so you are not stuck
with a difficult construction also ask more modern designs , check this
one that is projected with actural ease of building in mind, no
difficult edges not the hundreds of small finish issues --- emagine a
tradisional emty hull where you still must in the tradisional way , fit
deck and structures ,deadrooms and lockers and compare it with this
smooth design where every surface are finished where the trouble
closing the hull are done with allready when the inner panels are fit,
where adding structure are compleatly different than fitting onto a
tradisional deck and hull , ---- well if you never build a boat it is
maby difficult to emagine that second thought in the design process
realy matter, but if you did you know how much it mean that there are
not the trouble "closing" the hull, that the boat is ready for an
outboard when the hull inner and outher panels are fit, compared a
tradisional open hull, where just fitting the deck , just fitting the
edges for the structure is a huge job. Check out a compleatly different
design aproach ;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tsunami-Longboat/

tsunami longboat looks cool but there arnt any plans or specs and i def
need both. The tolmaskiff looks ok but its not realy what im lookin
for. I dont really need all that. Just a good quick boat that can carry
6 people without trouble across and opening into the bay/intercoastal.
A cabin would be added later if at all.

try www.boat-links.com?

--
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TBirdMan1986 wrote:
Ok Im def a newB to Boat building and such however my friend and i
would like to build a boat we could use around the intercoastal and
in
the ocean for short distances. I was hoping i could build one that
would fit up to 6 people. I would like it to be anywhere from 18 to
24
feet long. We played with the idea of jet propulsion but am not 100 %
sure thats a good idea. So if anyone could explain the different hull
designs and places i could go and get some designs for building a
power
boat that can move anywhere from 15 to 20 knots. Hold 6 people. Be
stable enough to withstand some waves (1-3 feet light/moderately
choppy).Relativley easy to build. Cost is an issue so hopefully it
wont
cost too much. It soundslike im asking for alot. Any information and
help would be very appriciated.

Marcus Davis a.k.a T-BirdMan


Well, I am surprised Jaques is not here yet... seeing as this time, he
probably IS the place to start :( Anyway, go to bateau.com and contact
them at the forums, he probably has something for you there..

Scotty, the backyard renegade... retired...

Reading between the lines of your original post, I am guessing that you have
some, but not extensive, experience in boats of the size and style you are
considering. (My apologies if I am mistaken) But you don't say WHY you
want to build a boat.

If your primary purpose is that you love working with your hands, and are
looking to spend weekends for a year or two on a project, then you are on
the right track. Likewise if you have investigated every production boat
out there, and none meets your specific requirements.

But I suspect you just want to get out on the water, in an affordable,
reliable, safe boat. If this is the case, building your own is probably the
most expensive, frustrating way to do so. You will do FAR better looking at
used fiberglass or aluminum boats, built 10 to 30 years ago, by a reputable
manufacturer. There are many good ones available, suited to just your
needs. You will get out on the water this spring, for less money, and if
you find it's not the perfect boat for you, it will have a far higher resale
value than a home-built.

Good luck!
Sal's Dad

PS. You can safely ignore Pers. He's shown himself to be a single-minded
nutcase dreamer. To date none of his boats have been built.


"TBirdMan1986" wrote in message
oups.com...
tsunami longboat looks cool but there arnt any plans or specs and i def
need both. The tolmaskiff looks ok but its not realy what im lookin
for. I dont really need all that. Just a good quick boat that can carry
6 people without trouble across and opening into the bay/intercoastal.
A cabin would be added later if at all.

Hi

If you refere "Sal's dad" you will know the air in this group I quote ;

"PS. You can safely ignore Pers. He's shown himself to be a
single-minded
nutcase dreamer. To date none of his boats have been built. "

Now if you go to the Cyber-Boat group , and some of the other
Cyber-Boat groups you will se what is called foto's , --- these show a
number of genuine wooden boats build and designed by Per Corell,
acturly the Cyber-Boat groups count thousands of members , and fact is
that in this group I posted numbers of foto's all documented by the
plans avaible for free in the Cyber-Boat groups, -------- you can check
the Lofoten-dinghie group you can check the Arandal group if any cheat
in this group want it I can prove what Sal's dad's words are just by
posting the links.
Per Corell

"wtf" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well, I am surprised Jaques is not here yet... seeing as this time, he
probably IS the place to start :( Anyway, go to bateau.com and contact
them at the forums, he probably has something for you there..

Scotty, the backyard renegade... retired...


While you wait for Jacques, you can scan this site and dream a little.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AtkinBoats/

surfnturf

Please post links of finished boats, Per. Every time I look at your
roatating image, I get confused as to what I am looking at.
Maybe it's just me, cause I have a problem sometimes visualizing 3D
objects, courtesy of being hit by a Mack truck, or maybe something else,
but a picture of a built boat would surely help.

Thanks,

Jonathan

wrote:

Hi

If you refere "Sal's dad" you will know the air in this group I quote ;

"PS. You can safely ignore Pers. He's shown himself to be a
single-minded
nutcase dreamer. To date none of his boats have been built. "

Now if you go to the Cyber-Boat group , and some of the other
Cyber-Boat groups you will se what is called foto's , --- these show a
number of genuine wooden boats build and designed by Per Corell,
acturly the Cyber-Boat groups count thousands of members , and fact is
that in this group I posted numbers of foto's all documented by the
plans avaible for free in the Cyber-Boat groups, -------- you can check
the Lofoten-dinghie group you can check the Arandal group if any cheat
in this group want it I can prove what Sal's dad's words are just by
posting the links.
Per Corell

Hi

You need to be a member of the different groups, case you are you can
enter the "Foto's" section where you find a number of foto's of build
boats.

These count the Lofoten dinghie the Arendal types the Holmsby type and
various other small real wooden boats build while develobing the
software used. A few of the designs are build and while refining the
software at the danish states workshops for arts and crafts in
copenhagen.

Per,
I have joined several of your groups. I see a number of renderings, and a
small number of pretty boat photos, apparently of "traditional" rather than
honeycomb construction. But I am unable to find groups called
"Lofoten-dinghie" or "Arandal".

Please provide specific links to any relevant photos. It would be helpful
if you would provide a bit of narrative to accompany each photo, on the
design process, lofting/layout, materials and techniques (and
sailing/handling characteristics, if the boat has been launched).

Sal's Dad

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi

You need to be a member of the different groups, case you are you can
enter the "Foto's" section where you find a number of foto's of build
boats.

These count the Lofoten dinghie the Arendal types the Holmsby type and
various other small real wooden boats build while develobing the
software used. A few of the designs are build and while refining the
software at the danish states workshops for arts and crafts in
copenhagen.

Hi

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-...foten-dinghie/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat-boatplans/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CyberBoat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-...ngboat-5meter/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tsunami-Longboat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cyber-boat-partners/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3D-Honeycomb-open/

P.C.

On 16 Mar 2005 14:13:20 -0800, wrote:

Hi

If you refere "Sal's dad" you will know the air in this group I quote ;

"PS. You can safely ignore Pers. He's shown himself to be a
single-minded
nutcase dreamer. To date none of his boats have been built. "

Now if you go to the Cyber-Boat group , and some of the other
Cyber-Boat groups you will se what is called foto's , --- these show a
number of genuine wooden boats build and designed by Per Corell,
acturly the Cyber-Boat groups count thousands of members , and fact is
that in this group I posted numbers of foto's all documented by the
plans avaible for free in the Cyber-Boat groups, -------- you can check
the Lofoten-dinghie group you can check the Arandal group if any cheat
in this group want it I can prove what Sal's dad's words are just by
posting the links.
Per Corell

So why didn't you post the links?



Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a


"In this house we _obey_ the laws of thermodynamics." --Homer Simpson

OK Per, I've looked at all the links you've cited. Together with your
earlier postings, I think these links make it clear that you are not to be
taken seriously.

To save others the trouble, I've provided a summary of what I found:


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-...foten-dinghie/
Shows a number of CAD-type renderings, and photos of a very pretty completed
small wooden boat, of what appears to be traditional lapstrake construction.
No info on materials, construction technique, lofting/layout, or
performance.

No discussion activity on this group.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat-boatplans/
Many CAD type renderings. A few compressed "dwg" files. No photos. No
discussion activity or narrative in this site.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CyberBoat/
A few CAD type renderings. A few large compressed "dwg" files. No photos.
No discussion activity or narrative in this site.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-...ngboat-5meter/
Shop photos of construction of a lapstrake skiff, apparently built INSIDE a
plywood mould. One photo of a completed boat under sail. I assume this is
your "proof-of-concept", but I do not see the connection with a honeycomb
construction technique.
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...ase.yahoo.com/

Also lots of CAD graphics. No discussion or commentary.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tsunami-Longboat/
A few CAD type renderings. One "wrl" file. No photos. Minimal discussion
activity, no narrative in this site.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cyber-boat-partners/
Access to this site denied.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3D-Honeycomb-open/
A number of CAD renderings, mostly architectural. Nothing marine related.
No photos. No current discussion, no narrative.

Hi

And ???

Then what are you just bored ,would it mean any difference if the
groups carry any other thing. True there are a number of 3D CAD
drawings, prove that there are better design tools than what you get
for free, if you know anything about CAD if you can maneage to order a
full-size plot, you also find the exact plans among the CAD files. And
yes among the foto's there are documentation while these show the build
boats, where your interest is to cheat and lie by posting that I never
build any of these boats, all you prove by your calcus is that you are
the cheat , your interest is not boatsbuilding.

Looking at the atkins plans i thaught id just give a liitle more info
on what i want. I like these two plans the Calypso and the walter piel.
I dont care much about flat vs v just want it big enough to carry 6
people. Want it to be powered well enough to travel around 20 knots.
Want it to be able to withstand a lightly choppy day in the bay/ gulf
(West Coast of florida/st petersburg) it would be cool if it was a
minimal cost type of thing but as far as looks and stuff not so rigid.
Flatback canoe that would fit all those descriptions would be fine. If
anyone could help me narrow down my search to specific areas ie Dory
ect that would help. if anyone can figure out where i can get some
plans for a boat that i might be interested in it would be all the
better. I also have another question. If i find a boat i like but it is
only say 14 feet long and i want it 20 and the sides only sit 1 foot
above waterline and i want it like 3 feet above waterline could i make
it fit those demensions and it still work or no? also i have an older
book that discusses how to build small wooden boats and it says to use
oakum and coal tar? what are each of these and how do they work? thx

Hi
Now there are the difference between old and new technology --- if you
talk about a Cyber-Boat you can scale it all directions all you want,
but you need to scale it "equal" that mean double length double hight
double wide , if you want it out of equal scale you would need to ask
the designer to make the calculations as doing that make foults in the
unfolded panels.
Doing the same with tradisional drafting methods is a hell of a job
even you scale equal, simply all drawings need to be redrawn where
things like stability with a 3D drawing, is a matter of "asking" what
the stability curve now fit.
I could ansver your question about tar and oakum as I acturly master
the art of caulking the old fasion way , but please forget about it you
will not need it true it is an interesting issue but only for real
oldtimers , -- you don't want to listen to the story if you don't want
someone spitting tobacco all the time.

Hi
Sorry you asked and you will get a short ansver without the fumes of
grog ;
The oakum are forced in loops between the planks so it stuff the gab
from side to side not bottom up , for that you need 15 different types
of caulking iron and made right the caulking can not be pulled out,
--- it easily can if an amature done the job one that don't have the
feel only heard about it, the tar is there not to make anything water
tight, only to keep the caulking in place.
Caulking is realy an art a great skill , you would know that in a
wooden boat.

I'm sorry, I must have missed it. Which photo is of a boat built using the
honeycomb construction technique? Be specific, please, as I am not very
smart, or good at following directions.

wrote
And ???

Then what are you just bored ,would it mean any difference if the
groups carry any other thing. True there are a number of 3D CAD
drawings, prove that there are better design tools than what you get
for free, if you know anything about CAD if you can maneage to order a
full-size plot, you also find the exact plans among the CAD files. And
yes among the foto's there are documentation while these show the build
boats, where your interest is to cheat and lie by posting that I never
build any of these boats, all you prove by your calcus is that you are
the cheat , your interest is not boatsbuilding.

Bateau.com
20-24 foot power vee bottom
No flat bottom for your intended boating
Do not modify a plan, find the right boat for you in the first place
Build your boat according to the designers suggested materials list

TBR.. It's not weather you win or lose.. It is how cool you look during
the game!

Hi

I think it is relevant to explain why I don\t bother ansvering "sal's
dad"

First of all I find that it is not a good thing for his mental state,
obviously this bully think he found a filth joy in harassing somone he
is not very interested in the issue ,what thee group is about but seem
to find great fun creating a usenet hate club making sure to steal the
bread from some poor guy's mouth.
Those of you who follow the group know this, know that this guy's sick
obsession origine from the fact, that Cyber-Boat offer fine boatplans
for free, but vorse of all none of these design are lame off-cut scrap
plywood flatbottom designs ---- so Sal's dad simply think that this guy
is a hippie and he is in his right to use usenet to ruin somones
reputation by cheat and lie
What worry me is that somone find joy and pleasure in such filth game,
at the same time as displaying a compleat lack of knowleage about
boatbuilding and an arogant trust that it is as much joy for others in
this group , -------- realy it was this guy that made sure Cyber-Boat
stopped offering the compleat plans for designs later than the Dizzie
design, why bother offering free plans and get payed back with hate and
filth being some sick persons hate dolly.
Now you are all welcome to judge for yourself, ------ lately it showed
clearly how this guy work ; first he find joy in lie and cheat when I
then show the lie to be what it is , just a tool for a sick persons
obsession , he don't even say sorry I was wrong I was blinded by my
obsession to bully and ruin nice guy's reputation and life, "you did
build these boats I can se that" ----- Oh no instead of looking at the
nice designs he rush on looking to se if he can invent some more filth.
Just short time ago his mental state showed all over the group while
the Tsunami triggered the need for new designs and a helping hand. As
you know I published a design that so many have said is cool and
splendid, but what did this guy say ; all he could do was to air his
sad obsession and instead of discussing the Tsunami-Longboat he aired
his hate against my person , that plenty others have said that the
design look exiting he don't bother, no Sal's dad's mental state don't
allow a helping hand his obsession will not allow --------Sal's dad why
don't you go find some treadment find some help, get your mind from
hate and bullying just look at this group just smell the filth sure it
is hot in hell, but atleast you made it yourself.

Hi

Just to make sure you understand ; I showed the various posts to some
people who acturly know what they are talking about, they said "Per
don't bother there allway's be one sick person blind for fact, somone
who is not interested in what you offer but only is on the web to bully
and collect a group to bully somone.". That someone often is someone
more skilled than themself and you must know that there are sick
persons just waiting to bail out their filth, it is their joy maby the
only joy they find in their life, forget it don't ansver such
charecters it is useless.

Per,
All we have to judge you by is your "Internet persona", you may be the
nicest, most rational guy in the world, but what we see is incoherent
rantings and unsubstantiated claims for your designs. How can we take your
claims seriously when you insist on posting in the way you do?
I`d very much like to see your boats, where are you based? Copenhagen I`d
imagine? Should you ever be in the Århus area, with or without one of your
boats, drop us a mail, maybe we could meet up.
Ps. I post in English as my Danish still isn`t really good enough to make
my point with any degree of precision :-(
Mvh
Bob Larder
wrote:
Hi

Just to make sure you understand ; I showed the various posts to some
people who acturly know what they are talking about, they said "Per
don't bother there allway's be one sick person blind for fact, somone
who is not interested in what you offer but only is on the web to
bully and collect a group to bully somone.". That someone often is
someone more skilled than themself and you must know that there are
sick persons just waiting to bail out their filth, it is their joy
maby the only joy they find in their life, forget it don't ansver such
charecters it is useless.

Hi Pers,

You write "realy it was this guy that made sure Cyber-Boat stopped offering
the compleat plans for designs later than the Dizzie design" . While we
have had occasional newsgroup exchanges in the past, I do not recall this
incident. Would you be so kind as to refresh my memory?

As to your observation "Now you are all welcome to judge for yourself," I
believe we are in complete agreement.

"Sal's dad why don't you go find some treadment find some help, get your
mind from hate and bullying just look at this group just smell the filth
sure it is hot in hell, but atleast you made it yourself." Yes Pers, of
course you are right. ( I have an appointment with my physician Monday; I
will ask for a referral to a mental health specialist ;-)


Until we chat again,
Sal's Dad

Hi Bob.
Before you judge you shuld know a bit about the Cyber-Boat aproach.

I learned the craft have build a number of small boats I acturly
lectured CAD at the boatbuliding school , the designs are the result
of develobing better software , yea I wrote the programs and build the
boats to document the methods but I am not someons puppy I don't like
bad design and building a boat you shuld trust your life, from faul
materials just to feed some stiffnecks Pony.
My work and the bread for my family is two sides of the same coin Sal's
Dad know this so do the Bolger fanatics , but while old fasion designs
never change Cyber-Boat even not one single new design been develobed
since a decade, then the software and the designs are still up to date.
------- Fact is that becaurse of the bullying you se the remains of
here, I closed down the old Cyber-Boat site, I placed a lot of it on
Yahoo as free download but maby that fact is the real cause why new
methods and splendid new designs is not welcome in this group.

TBirdMan1986 wrote:
Looking at the atkins plans i thaught id just give a liitle more info
on what i want. I like these two plans the Calypso and the walter
piel.
I dont care much about flat vs v just want it big enough to carry 6
people. Want it to be powered well enough to travel around 20 knots.
Want it to be able to withstand a lightly choppy day in the bay/ gulf
(West Coast of florida/st petersburg) it would be cool if it was a
minimal cost type of thing but as far as looks and stuff not so
rigid.
Flatback canoe that would fit all those descriptions would be fine.
If
anyone could help me narrow down my search to specific areas ie Dory
ect that would help. if anyone can figure out where i can get some
plans for a boat that i might be interested in it would be all the
better. I also have another question. If i find a boat i like but it
is
only say 14 feet long and i want it 20 and the sides only sit 1 foot
above waterline and i want it like 3 feet above waterline could i
make
it fit those demensions and it still work or no? also i have an older
book that discusses how to build small wooden boats and it says to
use
oakum and coal tar? what are each of these and how do they work? thx


Look here too:
http://www.glen-l.com/

Scotty

On 18 Mar 2005 02:01:05 -0800, wrote:

Hi

Just to make sure you understand ; I showed the various posts to some
people who acturly know what they are talking about, they said "Per
don't bother there allway's be one sick person blind for fact, somone
who is not interested in what you offer but only is on the web to bully
and collect a group to bully somone.". That someone often is someone
more skilled than themself and you must know that there are sick
persons just waiting to bail out their filth, it is their joy maby the
only joy they find in their life, forget it don't ansver such
charecters it is useless.


It is a horribly difficult lesson to swallow, Per, I know: but I
eventually found it goes much easier on ones temperament to suppose
that any critical responder to one's posts ought to be thanked for
paying attention, with some effort to meet the various objections
offered.

There are cases where this approach cannot reasonably be used.
The remedy here, is to stay completely silent on the topic.

If one adopts this approach, flames extinguish almost immediately, and
one gets an unreasonably positive reputation for reasoned
reasonableness.

The alternative - responding defensively, fans flames, and leads
people to unreasonably suppose that one is defensive, even paranoid.

Best Wishes

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

Hi
Brian you are quite right, this only show that with no real visions in
life, you tend to act your reflections on web --- fact though that you
are only displaying these in your own emagination.

Hi Brian please let me put it more specific. My experience is that in
most groups some dryass usenet fanatic often with least knowleage about
the group issue, display what's in his mind. Bored usenetlesness and
what allway's make me give a strait reply, is that you know the world
would be a better place without them .