Water ballast tap ???
 

Is "tap" a proper word for water-pipe switch?

I'm looking for some kind of tap /switch to open /close the tubing to the
ballast tanks.

Since one of the main goals is to keep empty weight down beg metall things
is not acceptable.

The pipes (plastic hoose) must be 15mm (dia), maybee 20-30mm.

Hints please!


Morgan O.

"valve"

--


Keith
__
Follow the latitudes so the temperature always exceeds your age.
"Morgan Ohlson" wrote in message
...
Is "tap" a proper word for water-pipe switch?

I'm looking for some kind of tap /switch to open /close the tubing to the
ballast tanks.

Since one of the main goals is to keep empty weight down beg metall things
is not acceptable.

The pipes (plastic hoose) must be 15mm (dia), maybee 20-30mm.

Hints please!


Morgan O.

Morgan Ohlson wrote:

Is "tap" a proper word for water-pipe switch?

I'm looking for some kind of tap /switch to open /close the tubing to the
ballast tanks.

Since one of the main goals is to keep empty weight down beg metall things
is not acceptable.

The pipes (plastic hoose) must be 15mm (dia), maybee 20-30mm.

Hints please!


Morgan O.

I use a plasic ball valve on 1/5 inch id (38.1mm) hose for my toilet
plumbing. Smaller sizes are available. Cost about 15 bucks, uses
threaded hose barb adapters. Seems OK so far after one season of
use. Available at home hardware stores.

As I use air pressure to purge and dump the holding tank contents.
An advantage of this is that the prime mover (the 12v electric tire
pump) does not get wet, or come in contact with tank contents. I
wonder if you plan on using air pressure to move the ballast?

The pressures involved for this application would not be more than a
few pounds per inch. An air pressure reserve tank is generally
lightweight, provides reserve floatation, can use a small air pump
to maintain a pressure reserve, and could move a lot of water quite
quickly. The idea might be suitable for your application. If you
need to you could use a bicycle tire pump to pressurize the system.
Are you constrained by racing rules? What might they say about
pumping ballast? Could you use a foot crank powered centrifugal pump
to move the ballast?

This raises a question in my mind concerning water ballast use. If
the windward tank is full and you are about to go about, do you just
open a valve to allow the ballast to flow to the lower leeward tank
and then tack, or do you tack first and then commence pumping? How
does your use affect handling before during and after going about?

Terry K

Interesting, Steve. How much do they leak?

Stephen Baker wrote:

Valve is a better word.

http://www.valterra.com/Ind/Gate.htm

Used on water-ballasted Open Class boats for years.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

Jim says:

Interesting, Steve. How much do they leak?

Nary a drop. Good kit all around, and cheap, and light, and did I mention I
like them? I've been speccing them for about 15 years, and never heard of a
problem.

;-)

Steve

I have a couple of those that I use for other things than on the boat. Like
pulling down a large bag with the Shop Vac before turning on the vacuum
pumps. They are excellent sealing and easy to operate but I still want to
know the answer to Terry's questions about their use in water ballast
systems. When do you open them? Do they need mechanical pumps? And what
happens when you get caught on a tack with the water on the wrong side?

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
Valve is a better word.

http://www.valterra.com/Ind/Gate.htm

Used on water-ballasted Open Class boats for years.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

Don't the go-fast guys use these systems to roll tack?
1. Open the (big) valve(s) and let the windward tank of water drain into the
leeward tank.
2. Thus trimmed severely to leeward, the boat rounds up and tacks
3. As the boat tacks, you close the valve
4. the full tank side is now the windward side, which is the whole idea.

Sounds like fun, but it might be hard on opened beers, sunbathers and galley
crockery.

Steve?



Glenn Ashmore wrote:

I have a couple of those that I use for other things than on the boat. Like
pulling down a large bag with the Shop Vac before turning on the vacuum
pumps. They are excellent sealing and easy to operate but I still want to
know the answer to Terry's questions about their use in water ballast
systems. When do you open them? Do they need mechanical pumps? And what
happens when you get caught on a tack with the water on the wrong side?

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
Valve is a better word.

http://www.valterra.com/Ind/Gate.htm

Used on water-ballasted Open Class boats for years.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Don't the go-fast guys use these systems to roll tack?
1. Open the (big) valve(s) and let the windward tank of water drain into
the
leeward tank.
2. Thus trimmed severely to leeward, the boat rounds up and tacks
3. As the boat tacks, you close the valve
4. the full tank side is now the windward side, which is the whole idea.

Sounds like fun, but it might be hard on opened beers, sunbathers and
galley
crockery.

Steve?

Pretty much how it works, except that some of the Open 60 type boats also
use a very big engine driven pump to pump the water faster for faster tacks
for inshore races. And sometimes the tank doesn't drain fully depending on
it's shape and you have to help it along.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)



Glenn Ashmore wrote:

I have a couple of those that I use for other things than on the boat.
Like
pulling down a large bag with the Shop Vac before turning on the vacuum
pumps. They are excellent sealing and easy to operate but I still want
to
know the answer to Terry's questions about their use in water ballast
systems. When do you open them? Do they need mechanical pumps? And what
happens when you get caught on a tack with the water on the wrong side?

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
Valve is a better word.

http://www.valterra.com/Ind/Gate.htm

Used on water-ballasted Open Class boats for years.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:33:52 -0400, Terry Spragg wrote:

Morgan Ohlson wrote:

Is "tap" a proper word for water-pipe switch?

I'm looking for some kind of tap /switch to open /close the tubing to the
ballast tanks.

Since one of the main goals is to keep empty weight down beg metall things
is not acceptable.

The pipes (plastic hoose) must be 15mm (dia), maybee 20-30mm.

Hints please!


Morgan O.

I use a plasic ball valve on 1/5 inch id (38.1mm) hose for my toilet
plumbing. Smaller sizes are available. Cost about 15 bucks, uses
threaded hose barb adapters. Seems OK so far after one season of
use. Available at home hardware stores.

From which area do they stem? House plumbing, caravans ???


Morgan O.

On 04 Nov 2004 22:10:52 GMT, Stephen Baker wrote:

Valve is a better word.

http://www.valterra.com/Ind/Gate.htm

Used on water-ballasted Open Class boats for years.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

Are they sold on the consumer market, or are they only sold to enginering
consultants, system developers and alike?

Are they heavy?

Morgan O.

Jim C says:

Don't the go-fast guys use these systems to roll tack?

Not sure I'd call it a real roll tack, but it is referred to as a "gravity
dump", saves pumping time ;-)

snip instructions

Sounds like fun, but it might be hard on opened beers, sunbathers and galley
crockery.

It's most hard on those sailing around you, as your boat, with no increase in
wind strength, goes from 10 degrees of heel to 30 degrees of heel, then tacks
and appears more stable.
It's also fun to wait for someone to "drag race", and THEN load up water
ballast. Suddenly the boat springs 10 degrees or so more upright, and gains a
lot of speed.
Happy days!

Steve

Morgan O says:

Are they sold on the consumer market, or are they only sold to enginering
consultants, system developers and alike?

Being good businessmen, they will usually sell to anyone. Or at the very least
tell you who your nearest dealer is.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

Perhaps a simple arrangement for water ballast tanks, although I haven't
heard of them in a dingy, would be to have two ball valves at the back of
the tank handy to teh skipper, one to let the water in through a hose or
pipe, and the other to let the water drain out into the bilge where it can
be sucked out with an automatic bailer, eliminating the need for pumps. in
a dingy an automatic bailer is a small hole in the bottom of the boat with
a door that can be opened when the boat is moving. the motion of the boat
through the water sucks any water in the bottom of the boat out through
the hole in the bottom of the boat. an automatic bailer is handy for
emptying out a dingy after a capsize but they do cost money. Sometimes
dingy's have holes in the transom so any water getting into the boat runs
right out the back.

For cruising I imagine there would be watertight compartments under
the fore deck and perhaps under a rear deck for keeping one's
bedding and spare clothing dry, so draining water balast inot the boat and
out an automatic bialer or the transom would not be a problem.

On the subject of ball valves, I installed them under the sinks in my house
last spring for $3.50 each from the plumbing department at the local home
improvment store. These are only 1/2" diameter pipe which many coul d take
a couple of minutes to fill or drain a balast tank on a dingy. Don't
install ball valve handles anywhere they are likely to get turned by
scrambling feet or a tangled mainsheet. :)

I imagine a dingy with two centreboards, a jib sail, a reefing main
sail, and water ballast tanks, would be a challenge to operate and
would keep a sailor pretty busy.

--
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And it's not nearly as obvious as having the whole crew move to the windward ama.
Has water ballast been done in multihulls? It could be useful in controlling
pitch, too.

Stephen Baker wrote:
SNIP

It's also fun to wait for someone to "drag race", and THEN load up water
ballast. Suddenly the boat springs 10 degrees or so more upright, and gains a
lot of speed.
Happy days!

Steve

Morgan Ohlson wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:33:52 -0400, Terry Spragg wrote:


Morgan Ohlson wrote:


Is "tap" a proper word for water-pipe switch?

I'm looking for some kind of tap /switch to open /close the tubing to the
ballast tanks.

Since one of the main goals is to keep empty weight down beg metall things
is not acceptable.

The pipes (plastic hoose) must be 15mm (dia), maybee 20-30mm.

Hints please!


Morgan O.

I use a plasic ball valve on 1/5 inch id (38.1mm) hose for my toilet
plumbing. Smaller sizes are available. Cost about 15 bucks, uses
threaded hose barb adapters. Seems OK so far after one season of
use. Available at home hardware stores.


From which area do they stem? House plumbing, caravans ???


Morgan O.

Plumbing. (plastic, not plumbus lead)

Recreational vehicle dealers also handle some special toilet
plumbing, but it is not as robust as most water supply pipestuff.
being lower pressure.

Terry K