On 22 Aug 2004 21:20:31 GMT, ospam (Stephen Baker)
wrote:

By law, all crews are unstable - that's why the captain is always the Supreme
Ruler of his little world. ;-))

=================================

Until told otherwise.

That usually doesn't take too long.

In article PmyVc.1663$A91.1254@okepread02,
Glenn Ashmore wrote:

I will have to admit to an old programming axiom:
"Within every complex program there is a simple one struggling to get
out." :-)

Ain't it the truth. One program I was tasked to maintain was 9000 lines
long. By the time I finished, it was 3700 lines, did three times the
work, didn't keep crashing, giving strange answers, and we no longer had
to keep a single programmer maintaining it full time.

Consultants!

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In some boats, the value of light weight is considerable. For the light multihull
i'm building, my ballpark figure for the value of a pound saved is about $50. If
the boat were 500# (1/3) heavier, i reckon its value would be diminished by $25K.
Admittedly, this is extreme, but teh concept is useful.

Stephen Baker wrote:

Wayne B says:

but the designers of racing sailboats go to fanatical trouble and
expense to reduce weight.

That's the one I was referring to. A 40' boat weighing in at around 20,000 lbs
is usually not too expensive whereas a 40-footer at 8,000 lbs begins to strain
the wallet. ;-)

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

Ah yes, the result of: "You guys start coding, I'll go find out what they
want." :-)

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:PmyVc.1663$A91.1254@okepread02...
I will have to admit to an old programming axiom:
"Within every complex program there is a simple one struggling to get
out." :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

I keep K.I.S.S. in my thoughts at all times, but but many times my results
lead me to belive I must be getting senile :-(

Fred

"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
Glenn says:

I will have to admit to an old programming axiom:
"Within every complex program there is a simple one struggling to get
out." :-)

I have always held that it is easier to design a complex system than a
simple
one that does the same thing. My father always kept a piece of card with
"Simplify" writ upon it stuck to his drawing board light. And he followed
his
own advice. ;-)

Steve

Fred Williams wrote:
Ah yes, the result of: "You guys start coding, I'll go find out what they
want." :-)

Actually, it is a result of another programming axium. "The customer
never knows exactly what he wants but he does know what he does not want
once he sees it." :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Yes! Right now I'm looking into the poential of building a large enough
barge upon which to park a fully "tricked out" Motor Home. I'm assessing
the windage relative to the motor homes slab sides which should reduce the
need for a large sail plan. I think of it as the cruisers' answer to the
ultimate "eXtreme" racing boat. :-)

Fred

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:7a3Wc.2574$A91.2234@okepread02...
Yes, but race boat designers don't have to worry about the rate of beer
cooling or galley slave mutiny. Cruising boats need to balance
stability of the boat against stability of the crew. :-)

Stephen Baker wrote:
Wayne B says:


but the designers of racing sailboats go to fanatical trouble and
expense to reduce weight.


That's the one I was referring to. A 40' boat weighing in at around
20,000 lbs
is usually not too expensive whereas a 40-footer at 8,000 lbs begins to
strain
the wallet. ;-)

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Careful there mate! I were one, even before I lernt to spel it! :-)

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article PmyVc.1663$A91.1254@okepread02,
Glenn Ashmore wrote:

I will have to admit to an old programming axiom:
"Within every complex program there is a simple one struggling to get
out." :-)

Ain't it the truth. One program I was tasked to maintain was 9000 lines
long. By the time I finished, it was 3700 lines, did three times the
work, didn't keep crashing, giving strange answers, and we no longer had
to keep a single programmer maintaining it full time.

Consultants!

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

I think the really early ones used a big block of ice.

"alex" wrote in message
...
Glenn: How did they keep the water cold in the old coca-cola coolers?

Jim,

A case of 120z. aluminum beer cans weighs 22lbs. By your values per
pound, that would mean a penalty of $50/lb. X 22lbs/case =
$1,100.00/case!!! Thus, I think I will do all of my drinking before
sailing with you, assuming you don't weigh me first!!! ;-)

- Paul

Jim Conlin wrote:
In some boats, the value of light weight is considerable. For the light multihull
i'm building, my ballpark figure for the value of a pound saved is about $50. If
the boat were 500# (1/3) heavier, i reckon its value would be diminished by $25K.
Admittedly, this is extreme, but teh concept is useful.

The concern about weight only applies when racing or when the designer (Dick Newick) is
aboard. At other times, appropriate quantities of beer are welcome.

Jim

"Paul R. LaBrie" wrote:

Jim,

A case of 120z. aluminum beer cans weighs 22lbs. By your values per
pound, that would mean a penalty of $50/lb. X 22lbs/case =
$1,100.00/case!!! Thus, I think I will do all of my drinking before
sailing with you, assuming you don't weigh me first!!! ;-)

- Paul

Jim Conlin wrote:
In some boats, the value of light weight is considerable. For the light multihull
i'm building, my ballpark figure for the value of a pound saved is about $50. If
the boat were 500# (1/3) heavier, i reckon its value would be diminished by $25K.
Admittedly, this is extreme, but teh concept is useful.

Beer Onboard
I know this is hard to believe but it is true. Eighteen years ago I
was contacted by a Gulf coast cruiser that spent his winters in the
Bahamas on board a 37 ft. sailboat. Beer at that time, in the Bahamas,
cost $26 a case so he wanted to carry his winter supply onboard 35
cases, apparently he was not a racier. What he wanted me to do was to
design him a beer cooler to cool his beer separate from the galley
refrigerator. A standard engine driven system for the two boxes would
work but he would need to build a second box. He must have believed
that beer was like fine wine because what he was really asking for was
a cooler onboard to keep all 35 cases of beer cold all the time.
The V berth area was cleaned out and a very large cooler was
constructed, he even spray foamed inside areas of the hull with
insulation.
I don't know how his winter with cold beer worked but he was happy
with his refrigeration when he left.

Yes I know, I told this story before in one of my books.
Http://www.kollmann-marine.com


Jim Conlin wrote in message ...
The concern about weight only applies when racing or when the designer (Dick Newick) is
aboard. At other times, appropriate quantities of beer are welcome.

Jim

"Paul R. LaBrie" wrote:

Jim,

A case of 120z. aluminum beer cans weighs 22lbs. By your values per
pound, that would mean a penalty of $50/lb. X 22lbs/case =
$1,100.00/case!!! Thus, I think I will do all of my drinking before
sailing with you, assuming you don't weigh me first!!! ;-)

- Paul

Jim Conlin wrote:
In some boats, the value of light weight is considerable. For the light multihull
i'm building, my ballpark figure for the value of a pound saved is about $50. If
the boat were 500# (1/3) heavier, i reckon its value would be diminished by $25K.
Admittedly, this is extreme, but teh concept is useful.

Oh yes! Most brewers are really serious about their distributors
storing beer at the right temperature. When the A/B district reps come
in one of the first thing they want to see is the warehouse temperature
logs.

OTOH, your client probably spent $3K to save $100 and probably missed a
chance to try Carib and Presidente. Can't say much for Carib but
Presidente is a great beer.

Richard Kollmann wrote:
Beer Onboard
I know this is hard to believe but it is true. Eighteen years ago I
was contacted by a Gulf coast cruiser that spent his winters in the
Bahamas on board a 37 ft. sailboat. Beer at that time, in the Bahamas,
cost $26 a case so he wanted to carry his winter supply onboard 35
cases, apparently he was not a racier. What he wanted me to do was to
design him a beer cooler to cool his beer separate from the galley
refrigerator. A standard engine driven system for the two boxes would
work but he would need to build a second box. He must have believed
that beer was like fine wine because what he was really asking for was
a cooler onboard to keep all 35 cases of beer cold all the time.
The V berth area was cleaned out and a very large cooler was
constructed, he even spray foamed inside areas of the hull with
insulation.
I don't know how his winter with cold beer worked but he was happy
with his refrigeration when he left.

Yes I know, I told this story before in one of my books.
Http://www.kollmann-marine.com

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com