mixing gas and oil questions
 

i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

mixing gas and oil questions
 

ted@theted. wrote in message
...
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted



It's always wise to follow manufacturers recommendations. Deviating from
them could be trouble.


Wilbur Hubbard

mixing gas and oil questions
 

Ted,
Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is necessary
for these type of engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation. Failure to follow this simple direction
could melt the pistons, the heads and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times. I know this is counter
intuitive, hence the number of times this failure occurs.
Steve

ted@theted. wrote in message ...
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

mixing gas and oil questions
 

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Ted,
Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing
the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is necessary for these type of
engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation.
Failure to follow this simple direction could melt the pistons, the heads
and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times. I
know this is counter intuitive, hence the number of times this failure
occurs.
Steve


Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me
the exact opposite recommendation. The question came up with my newer engine
which is designed to run on 100-1 mix. They told me it will run just fine
on the same stuff as my older engine, a 50-1 mix. They also cautioned me
that the least "too-little" mix , such as missing by a bit when filling from
a not-empty supply and having to guess at the right amount, could turn it
into an anchor. Failure to use enough deprives the engine of its
lubrication, and things seize up.

Further, my manuals for both engines show to use double the oil in severe
use conditions. I.e., in the newer one, 50-1, in the older one, 25-1. More
oil, at least as inferred from the manuals, assures that won't happen, even
if you overdo it.

I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but
my common sense tells me that 16% more than specified as ADEQUATE should not
be a problem.

Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than
gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile?

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On Oct 25, 12:02*pm, ted@theted. wrote:
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's
self with a oil pump to the carbs. But I mix the same ratio for all
my small engines without any problems.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

Lots of trimming

Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than
gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile?

L8R

Skip

There are 2 parameters to consider these are the flash point - the min
temp at which it will ignite with a spark or flame etc.
This is typically -45F for petrol (gasoline) and +143F for diesel.
Hence as a boat fuel, diesel is a lot 'safer' than gasoline.

However there is also the autoignition temperature - this is the min
temp where the fuel will simply ignite without a spark or flame.
For Petrol this is 495F and for diesel 410F a fair bit cooler.

So too much oil could lower the auto ignition temp to a point where
pre-ignition happens - not good for your engine.

However I have no idea how much you need to add to cause this kind of
problem.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

ted@theted. wrote in message
...
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I follow the manual recommendations.
i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little plastic
measuring device.
It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

You can do a test yourself. Place a drop of gasoline down the barrel of a daisy BB gun and fire it....no effect. Use a drop of oil
and you will hear the detonation when the lube oil detonates. Further, try running a diesel engine on high octane gasoline and see
what doesn't happen. You may be able to move to 50:1 from 100:1.....maybe, but modern two stroke engines use a lot more
compression than the older ones and when using too much oil in the mix, you will melt a piston.
Steve

"Flying Pig" wrote in message ...
"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ...
Ted,
Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is
necessary for these type of engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation. Failure to follow this simple
direction could melt the pistons, the heads and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times. I know this
is counter intuitive, hence the number of times this failure occurs.
Steve


Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation. The question came
up with my newer engine which is designed to run on 100-1 mix. They told me it will run just fine on the same stuff as my older
engine, a 50-1 mix. They also cautioned me that the least "too-little" mix , such as missing by a bit when filling from a
not-empty supply and having to guess at the right amount, could turn it into an anchor. Failure to use enough deprives the
engine of its lubrication, and things seize up.

Further, my manuals for both engines show to use double the oil in severe use conditions. I.e., in the newer one, 50-1, in the
older one, 25-1. More oil, at least as inferred from the manuals, assures that won't happen, even if you overdo it.

I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me that 16% more than
specified as ADEQUATE should not be a problem.

Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more
volatile?

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

mixing gas and oil questions
 

Engine repair shops love customers like you....you keep them in business.
Steve

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message ...
On Oct 25, 12:02 pm, ted@theted. wrote:
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's
self with a oil pump to the carbs. But I mix the same ratio for all
my small engines without any problems.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Oct 25, 12:02*pm, ted@theted. wrote:
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's
self with a oil pump to the carbs.

the guy who was working on it suggested that i have the pump mix
system removed for a couple of reasons. one was because it was
smoking badly meaning it was mixing too much oil, and the other
was because somewhere in that system it was leaking oil into the
hull. he said it could just as easily mix too little as mix too
much and that would ruin the engine, so i figured after getting
lucky and having a second chance it was best to have the messy
threat removed so it won't ever be an issue again.

But I mix the same ratio for all
my small engines without any problems.

what ratio?

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 13:13:49 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Ted,
Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing
the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is necessary for these type of
engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation.
Failure to follow this simple direction could melt the pistons, the heads
and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times. I
know this is counter intuitive, hence the number of times this failure
occurs.
Steve


Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me
the exact opposite recommendation. The question came up with my newer engine
which is designed to run on 100-1 mix. They told me it will run just fine
on the same stuff as my older engine, a 50-1 mix. They also cautioned me
that the least "too-little" mix , such as missing by a bit when filling from
a not-empty supply and having to guess at the right amount, could turn it
into an anchor. Failure to use enough deprives the engine of its
lubrication, and things seize up.

when the evinrude was re-built the mechanic told me to mix 50-1
instead of the regular 25-1 until it got broken in. when i asked
if it would hurt to keep mixing it that way all the time he said
no.

Further, my manuals for both engines show to use double the oil in severe
use conditions. I.e., in the newer one, 50-1, in the older one, 25-1. More
oil, at least as inferred from the manuals, assures that won't happen, even
if you overdo it.

I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but
my common sense tells me that 16% more than specified as ADEQUATE should not
be a problem.

that mechanic and the jetski mechanic both said too much is okay
but too little will ruin the engine because what you're doing is
running it low on oil, which certainly makes sense.

Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than
gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile?

for real. i've been running the evinrude about 50-1 for about a
year and it hasn't blown up or even overheated. one person told
me that mixing too much oil makes it have a problem with wanting
to quit when you're trying to start it...it will fire up for a
few seconds and then die which it is doing. but he may have just
said that because he knew i was mixing it heavy on oil. he told
me that at a time when we were having the problem. it usually
only does it once or twice though, and then runs fine.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:48:09 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Ted,
Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is necessary
for these type of engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation. Failure to follow this simple direction
could melt the pistons, the heads and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times.

as yet i find it hard to believe that you've seen it happen at
all, much less hundreds of times. how much more oil are you
talking about?

I know this is counter intuitive,

to say the least.

hence the number of times this failure occurs.

can you provide any reason to believe that happens a lot, other
than your own unlikely sounding claim? i've never heard of it
happening at all, and if it were as common as you say it is it
seems it's one of those things mechanics would warn people about.

ted@theted. wrote in message ...
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

mixing gas and oil questions
 

ted@theted. wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Oct 25, 12:02 pm, ted@theted. wrote:
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's
self with a oil pump to the carbs.

the guy who was working on it suggested that i have the pump mix
system removed for a couple of reasons. one was because it was
smoking badly meaning it was mixing too much oil, and the other
was because somewhere in that system it was leaking oil into the
hull. he said it could just as easily mix too little as mix too
much and that would ruin the engine, so i figured after getting
lucky and having a second chance it was best to have the messy
threat removed so it won't ever be an issue again.

But I mix the same ratio for all
my small engines without any problems.

what ratio?



Idiot! Moron. Fool. There could well be other oil feed lines than the ones
to the carbs that you see. That might be where the oil leak is coming from.
If this were the case and the oil feed was going to lubricate the crankshaft
main bearings, for example, and there were oil seals in place to separate
the bearings from the crankcase to better facilitate secondary compression
and transfer of the fuel/oil mix, the main bearings, having no source of
lubrication, (the fuel/oil mixture couldn't get to the bearings because of
the seals) would quickly overheat and fail. your mechanic is not to be
trusted. He's stupid, ignorant or both.

Wilbur Hubbard

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On Oct 25, 11:02*am, ted@theted. wrote:
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

Mix according to the engine manufacture's recommendations and use a
good quality 2-cycle oil that is rated for 'water cooled' engines.
They are designed for the heat factors which are different from weed
eaters and chainsaws.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

My 2-cents.

First, a 50-1 mix is about 2% oil; a 25-1 mix about 4%. Yes, twice as
much oil but still very little of it. Unlike Steve, I've seen many
(not his hundreds) of 2-cycle engines seize up from too little oil,
but never from too much. Heck, I remember one guy that used 12.5-1 (2
qts. in 6 gallons) in his ultralight. Looked like he had a smoke
system! BTW, the ultralight engine manufacturers recommended 25-1 for
the first 25 hours for break in.

Not water cooled, but a real world example. About 20 years ago I built
and flew a gyrocopter. It used a WW II era 90HP, 4 cylinder engine.
The manufacgturer's recommended mix was 25 parts 130 Octane leaded
aviation gas to 1 part 40 wt. aviation (mineral) oil.

The 70's did away with the two aviation grades so the choice was 100
LL ( 100 Octane low lead ) or premium auto gas.

Most everyone also used 2-cycle oil and mixed it 50-1 because it's
mainly the oil used that determines the ratio. The 50-1 mix became the
standard shortly after the so-called "50-1 oil" came out and became
readily available, I think in the 50's.

A few folks with gryos and ultralights tried the very expensive "100-1
oil" and shortly faced engine rebuilds.

BTW, the gyro engine was high compression. I've been racking my brain
trying to remember, but am coming up blank. Anyway, that's why the 130
Octane gas.

Rick

mixing gas and oil questions
 

"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...
My 2-cents.
snip.............
.. Heck, I remember one guy that used 12.5-1 (2
qts. in 6 gallons) in his ultralight. Looked like he had a smoke
system!
snip...........
Rick

Got that beat.
My 1954 British Seagull 40 Plus uses 10:1 ratio.
If there's a strong tail wind, I almost choke to death, so I constantly gybe
to keep the blue exhaust smoke on one side or the other.
BTW I don't use that engine much anymore.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On 10/25/10 8:41 PM, YukonBound wrote:


"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...
My 2-cents.
snip.............
. Heck, I remember one guy that used 12.5-1 (2
qts. in 6 gallons) in his ultralight. Looked like he had a smoke
system!
snip...........
Rick

Got that beat.
My 1954 British Seagull 40 Plus uses 10:1 ratio.
If there's a strong tail wind, I almost choke to death, so I constantly
gybe to keep the blue exhaust smoke on one side or the other.
BTW I don't use that engine much anymore.


In 1954, I recall my dad letting me have a 7.5 hp Evinrude Fleetwin on a
12' Skimmar brand skiff. The boat actually planed. Half pint of oil to a
gallon of gas.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:48:23 -0500, Rick Morel
wrote:

Not water cooled, but a real world example. About 20 years ago I built
and flew a gyrocopter. It used a WW II era 90HP, 4 cylinder engine.
The manufacgturer's recommended mix was 25 parts 130 Octane leaded
aviation gas to 1 part 40 wt. aviation (mineral) oil.

Interesting! Do you happen to know Ken Brock? He was one of the
gyrocopter pioneers and flew one across country for the publicity.
He and I appeared together on a television show called "To Tell The
Truth" back in the early 70s. I was one of his "imposters" and Ken
of course was the real thing.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 22:30:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:48:23 -0500, Rick Morel
wrote:

Not water cooled, but a real world example. About 20 years ago I built
and flew a gyrocopter....

Interesting! Do you happen to know Ken Brock? He was one of the
gyrocopter pioneers and flew one across country for the publicity.
He and I appeared together on a television show called "To Tell The
Truth" back in the early 70s. I was one of his "imposters" and Ken
of course was the real thing.

No, but I did meet him. A great guy. About all the gyrocopters used
his horizontal stabilizer and control system.

Rick

mixing gas and oil questions
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
ted@theted. wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Oct 25, 12:02 pm, ted@theted. wrote:
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's
self with a oil pump to the carbs.

the guy who was working on it suggested that i have the pump mix
system removed for a couple of reasons. one was because it was
smoking badly meaning it was mixing too much oil, and the other
was because somewhere in that system it was leaking oil into the
hull. he said it could just as easily mix too little as mix too
much and that would ruin the engine, so i figured after getting
lucky and having a second chance it was best to have the messy
threat removed so it won't ever be an issue again.

But I mix the same ratio for all
my small engines without any problems.

what ratio?



Idiot! Moron. Fool. There could well be other oil feed lines than the ones
to the carbs that you see. That might be where the oil leak is coming
from. If this were the case and the oil feed was going to lubricate the
crankshaft main bearings, for example, and there were oil seals in place
to separate the bearings from the crankcase to better facilitate secondary
compression and transfer of the fuel/oil mix, the main bearings, having no
source of lubrication, (the fuel/oil mixture couldn't get to the bearings
because of the seals) would quickly overheat and fail. your mechanic is
not to be trusted. He's stupid, ignorant or both.

Wilbur Hubbard
Sounds like Wilber is off his meds again. Just let him ramble.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

"YukonBound" wrote in message
...


ted@theted. wrote in message
...
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I follow the manual recommendations.
i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little plastic
measuring device.
It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas.
You take a Vespa out on the high seas Don?

mixing gas and oil questions
 

"YukonBound" wrote in message
...


"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...
My 2-cents.
snip.............
. Heck, I remember one guy that used 12.5-1 (2
qts. in 6 gallons) in his ultralight. Looked like he had a smoke
system!
snip...........
Rick

Got that beat.
My 1954 British Seagull 40 Plus uses 10:1 ratio.
If there's a strong tail wind, I almost choke to death, so I constantly
gybe to keep the blue exhaust smoke on one side or the other.
BTW I don't use that engine much anymore.
Helps to keep the mosquitoes away I'll bet?

mixing gas and oil questions
 

"MMC" wrote in message
g.com...


"YukonBound" wrote in message
...


ted@theted. wrote in message
...
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I follow the manual recommendations.
i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little plastic
measuring device.
It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas.
You take a Vespa out on the high seas Don?

Why not... strap a couple of pontoons on the side and engage the marine
drive..............................

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On 10/26/10 10:19 AM, YukonBound wrote:


"MMC" wrote in message
g.com...


"YukonBound" wrote in message
...


ted@theted. wrote in message
...
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I follow the manual recommendations.
i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little
plastic measuring device.
It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas.
You take a Vespa out on the high seas Don?

Why not... strap a couple of pontoons on the side and engage the marine
drive..............................


A VespaSki, to be seen in the next Bond move. Don Bond driving, Scarlett
Johannsen in the passenger seat.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

Interesting that my comments should have had the group ranting and raving.

Nice, however, to see WH/GH ack their duality, finally, after all the "he's
my roommate" and the like denials.

Meanwhile, inquiring minds still want to know...

Why do outboard manufacturers insist that you run double the oil during
breakin, and under severe operating conditions, if it's likely to blow out
the pistons as liquid aluminum?

Never mind whether or not a certified mechanic can be trusted or whether or
not I selectively read. At least one poster has verified doubling the oil
during breakin so it stands to reason that it MIGHT be possible that the
manual actually says the same about severe operating conditions...

L8R

Skip, chasing his starting issues, still, report to follow

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

mixing gas and oil questions
 

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:54:44 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Never mind whether or not a certified mechanic can be trusted or whether or
not I selectively read. At least one poster has verified doubling the oil
during breakin so it stands to reason that it MIGHT be possible that the
manual actually says the same about severe operating conditions...

I don't think so. That's when you're likely to experience
pre-ignition/detonation due to the lowered self ignition temperature
of the fuel mix.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:54:44 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Never mind whether or not a certified mechanic can be trusted or whether
or
not I selectively read. At least one poster has verified doubling the oil
during breakin so it stands to reason that it MIGHT be possible that the
manual actually says the same about severe operating conditions...

I don't think so. That's when you're likely to experience
pre-ignition/detonation due to the lowered self ignition temperature
of the fuel mix.




Duh! Increasing the oil to fuel ratio does not lower the self-ignition
temperature. It raises it. We are not talking diesel engines here. We are
talking two-stroke gasoline engines with their relatively low compression
ratios.

Try running a two-stroke (two-cycle) engine on pure two-stroke oil and they
won't self ignite to combustion EVER! Even a spark plug won't make the thing
fire.

Try running them on half and half gas and oil and they might just barely run
given a source of ignition like a spark plug before it fouls with oil in
about a minute but they won't self-ignite EVER.

Try running them on nothing but gasoline and they will have a much higher
likelihood of self-ignition (aka detonation, knock or ping) for about a
minute before the piston seizes to the cylinder wall.

I hate like hell to say it but SKIPPY IS CORRECT. Increasing the oil to fuel
ratio will not damage the engine from detonation, etc.


Wilbur Hubbard

mixing gas and oil questions
 

"YukonBound" wrote in message
...


"MMC" wrote in message
g.com...


"YukonBound" wrote in message
...


ted@theted. wrote in message
...
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be
a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5
gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's
ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the
evinrude?

thanks!

ted

I follow the manual recommendations.
i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little
plastic measuring device.
It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas.
You take a Vespa out on the high seas Don?

Why not... strap a couple of pontoons on the side and engage the marine
drive..............................
Haha! Probably gets great milage.

mixing gas and oil questions
 

From Page 8 of the OMC manual for the 15HP, a 1992j model:

To protect your new outboard motor during the intiial hours of operation,
and to seat internal engine components, you MUST (emphasis theirs) add extra
oil during the break-in period.

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 12 gallons must be *25-1* (emphasis
theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be *50-1*
(emphasis theirs).


My 6HP manual in hand is just before they went to 100-1 oil. Note that
this, a 2005 manual, as the dealer didn't have a current one, is for the
normally 50-1 mix engine. My 6 is actually a couple of years later, and the
recommended use is for half of that shown above. As mine was a trade-in, it
didn't happen to have its original manual, explaining why I'm looking at an
older one.

It says, on page 15:

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 10 hours must be *25-1* (emphasis theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be *50-1*
(emphasis theirs).

HOWEVER...

"During high performance opertion you must use a *25-1* fuel/oil ratio in
your fuel tank."

Now, I agree, OMC is a poor source of information about what to use in their
engines for them to warranty them.

But until some more authoratative source presents, I'm going with the
manual.l NOTHING in it suggests, and, quite the contrary, demands its use,
for high performance, that doubling the oil is harmful to the engine.

Indeed, high performance seems to me to be more stressful, and, as such, if
the assertions that too much oil will melt the aluminum, that the
recommendation would be for LESS oil, not doubling it...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

mixing gas and oil questions
 

Skip,
I think we both speak English. I recommended up front to follow the manufacturer's recommendation, they built the motor. However,
lube oil mixed with gasoline will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel and it is a contributing risk factor for detonation.
You obviously don't believe me, so I invited you to do the research yourself.....you didn't. Instead, you quoted a user manual and
you are still talking trash from a point of no knowledge. What is wrong with this picture?
Steve

"Flying Pig" wrote in message ...
From Page 8 of the OMC manual for the 15HP, a 1992j model:

To protect your new outboard motor during the intiial hours of operation, and to seat internal engine components, you MUST
(emphasis theirs) add extra oil during the break-in period.

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 12 gallons must be *25-1* (emphasis theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be *50-1* (emphasis theirs).


My 6HP manual in hand is just before they went to 100-1 oil. Note that this, a 2005 manual, as the dealer didn't have a current
one, is for the normally 50-1 mix engine. My 6 is actually a couple of years later, and the recommended use is for half of that
shown above. As mine was a trade-in, it didn't happen to have its original manual, explaining why I'm looking at an older one.

It says, on page 15:

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 10 hours must be *25-1* (emphasis theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be *50-1* (emphasis theirs).

HOWEVER...

"During high performance opertion you must use a *25-1* fuel/oil ratio in your fuel tank."

Now, I agree, OMC is a poor source of information about what to use in their engines for them to warranty them.

But until some more authoratative source presents, I'm going with the manual.l NOTHING in it suggests, and, quite the contrary,
demands its use, for high performance, that doubling the oil is harmful to the engine.

Indeed, high performance seems to me to be more stressful, and, as such, if the assertions that too much oil will melt the
aluminum, that the recommendation would be for LESS oil, not doubling it...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

mixing gas and oil questions
 

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Skip,
I think we both speak English. I recommended up front to follow the
manufacturer's recommendation, they built the motor. However, lube oil
mixed with gasoline will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel and
it is a contributing risk factor for detonation. You obviously don't
believe me, so I invited you to do the research yourself.....you didn't.
Instead, you quoted a user manual and you are still talking trash from a
point of no knowledge. What is wrong with this picture?
Steve

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
From Page 8 of the OMC manual for the 15HP, a 1992j model:

To protect your new outboard motor during the intiial hours of
operation, and to seat internal engine components, you MUST (emphasis
theirs) add extra oil during the break-in period.

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 12 gallons must be *25-1* (emphasis
theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be
*50-1* (emphasis theirs).


My 6HP manual in hand is just before they went to 100-1 oil. Note
that this, a 2005 manual, as the dealer didn't have a current one, is
for the normally 50-1 mix engine. My 6 is actually a couple of years
later, and the recommended use is for half of that shown above. As
mine was a trade-in, it didn't happen to have its original manual,
explaining why I'm looking at an older one.

It says, on page 15:

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 10 hours must be *25-1* (emphasis
theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be
*50-1* (emphasis theirs).

HOWEVER...

"During high performance opertion you must use a *25-1* fuel/oil ratio
in your fuel tank."

Now, I agree, OMC is a poor source of information about what to use in
their engines for them to warranty them.

But until some more authoratative source presents, I'm going with the
manual.l NOTHING in it suggests, and, quite the contrary, demands its
use, for high performance, that doubling the oil is harmful to the
engine.

Indeed, high performance seems to me to be more stressful, and, as
such, if the assertions that too much oil will melt the aluminum, that
the recommendation would be for LESS oil, not doubling it...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely
nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing
about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter,
that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to
do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."



Engines with automatic oil injection systems supply extra oil for
hard use such as hole shots for water skiing. The only problems I've
seen with too much oil is gummed up plugs.
g

mixing gas and oil questions
 

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Skip,
I think we both speak English. I recommended up front to follow the
manufacturer's recommendation, they built the motor. However, lube oil
mixed with gasoline will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel and it
is a contributing risk factor for detonation. You obviously don't believe
me, so I invited you to do the research yourself.....you didn't. Instead,
you quoted a user manual and you are still talking trash from a point of
no knowledge. What is wrong with this picture?
Steve


Hi, Steve,

I'm not talking trash - I'm citing owner's manuals. If what the
manufacturer puts out as a requirement for warranty on the engine comes
across as trash, I'm sorry, but I can't be held responsible :{))

In any event, I don't do high performance, so doubling isn't needed from
that perspective. OTOH, in my 100-1 engine, avoiding starvation is of
greater concern, and a many-decades old service company has suggested that
I'm better safe than sorry - so I use the same mix in both units.

And, 18 years later, the 15 is still going strong, though nothing I know of
its history, nor my personal use in the last three years, suggests doubling
the oil other than on breakin...

L8R

Skip.

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."