Glue thickness?
 

I am building a new hatch lid from two 4mm ( ~1/6"") sheets of marine
ply. Reinformcement structures will follow. My question here is: How
much glue (epoxy resin plus cotton fibres as thickener) is the
optimum? My felt guess is 0.1 to 0.2 mm, i.e. ~1/240 to 1/120". Less
is hardly possible, more? The curvature is about 15 mm elevation in
the middle of a width of 600 mm.

Cheers, and TIA,

U.

Glue thickness?
 

Ulrich G. Kliegis wrote:
I am building a new hatch lid from two 4mm ( ~1/6"") sheets of marine
ply. Reinformcement structures will follow. My question here is: How
much glue (epoxy resin plus cotton fibres as thickener) is the
optimum? My felt guess is 0.1 to 0.2 mm, i.e. ~1/240 to 1/120". Less
is hardly possible, more? The curvature is about 15 mm elevation in
the middle of a width of 600 mm.

Cheers, and TIA,

U.

if you clamp too tightly you will squeeze the epoxy out and the joint
will fail.
paul - progressive epoxy polymers inc.

Glue thickness?
 

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:35:22 -0500, Paul Oman
wrote in rec.boats.building:

if you clamp too tightly you will squeeze the epoxy out and the joint
will fail.

That's why I apply thickener. Enough pressure to achieve the bend and
the closure of any gaps, but not too much to press it all out.

My question just aims at the amount I should apply. Too much is bad,
too little too.

Thanks for your comment!

U.

Glue thickness?
 

In article ,
says...

Ulrich G. Kliegis wrote:
I am building a new hatch lid from two 4mm ( ~1/6"") sheets of marine
ply. Reinformcement structures will follow. My question here is: How
much glue (epoxy resin plus cotton fibres as thickener) is the
optimum? My felt guess is 0.1 to 0.2 mm, i.e. ~1/240 to 1/120". Less
is hardly possible, more? The curvature is about 15 mm elevation in
the middle of a width of 600 mm.

Cheers, and TIA,

U.

if you clamp too tightly you will squeeze the epoxy out and the joint
will fail.
paul - progressive epoxy polymers inc.

Well, if you listen to the Old School guy I used to work with he would say, you
don't goo wood to wood. Put a layer of cloth in there and use the epoxy to fill
the glass...

Scotty

--
Can I haz Cheezeburger?

Glue thickness?
 

On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 12:46:35 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote in rec.boats.building:

Well, if you listen to the Old School guy I used to work with he would say, you
don't goo wood to wood. Put a layer of cloth in there and use the epoxy to fill
the glass...

An interesting thought. Never heard that before, but it looks like it
makes sense - although my work here is just a hatch lid, not an
icebreaker bow... :) But... Will have to think about it. And then,
wet in wet?

Thanks for that inspiring idea!

Cheers,
U.

Glue thickness?
 

Paint each side of dry wood with unthickened epoxy so it will be absorbed.
Wait a few minutes but don't let it cure. Then put a thin layer of
thickened epoxy and clamp just tightly enough to achieve the shape you need
and to mimimize any gaps. The thickened epoxy is just a gap filler and the
gaps are supposed to be very minor. If the gaps are too large then the
epoxy would form hard spots. I'd use fumed silica for thickener. The
thicker you make it the faster it cures - can be too fast to work with so
thicken only enough so it doesn't run and will act like a gap filler.

Glue thickness?
 

In article , I am Tosk wrote:

Well, if you listen to the Old School guy I used to work with he would say, you
don't goo wood to wood. Put a layer of cloth in there and use the epoxy to fill
the glass...

That sounds very sensible. I shall try and remember it.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

Glue thickness?
 

Epoxy is the wrong adhesive for this application. If it was the correct glue, plywood would be made this way and it isn't. As
stated by others, epoxy does not like to be thin and your application should be tightly clamped. You should be using waterproof
resorcinol for the panel lamination. It is cheaper, less messy and easier to work with. Reserve your epoxy to your structural
joints and you will be golden. Use the right tools for the right job.
Steve

"Ulrich G. Kliegis" diesemailadressevonUlliistzwaretwaslangabersieist wrote in message
...
I am building a new hatch lid from two 4mm ( ~1/6"") sheets of marine
ply. Reinformcement structures will follow. My question here is: How
much glue (epoxy resin plus cotton fibres as thickener) is the
optimum? My felt guess is 0.1 to 0.2 mm, i.e. ~1/240 to 1/120". Less
is hardly possible, more? The curvature is about 15 mm elevation in
the middle of a width of 600 mm.

Cheers, and TIA,

U.

Glue thickness?
 

I agree with Steve, after all resorcinol is what they use to make
marine plywood and for good reason.

Timmynocky

On Mar 6, 7:26*am, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Epoxy is the wrong adhesive for this application. If it was the correct glue, plywood would be made this way and it isn't. As
stated by others, epoxy does not like to be thin and your application should be tightly clamped. You should be using waterproof
resorcinol for the panel lamination. It is cheaper, less messy and easier to work with. Reserve your epoxy to your structural
joints and you will be golden. Use the right tools for the right job.
Steve

"Ulrich G. Kliegis" diesemailadressevonUlliistzwaretwaslangabersieist wrote in messagenews:efb2p5t1fiuqf72g6h0im2eeb6u2a40oan@4ax .com...



I am building a new hatch lid from two 4mm ( ~1/6"") sheets of marine
ply. Reinformcement structures will follow. My question here is: How
much glue (epoxy resin plus cotton fibres as thickener) is the
optimum? My felt guess is 0.1 to 0.2 mm, i.e. ~1/240 to 1/120". Less
is hardly possible, more? The curvature is about 15 mm elevation in
the middle of a width of 600 mm.

Cheers, and TIA,

U.

Glue thickness?
 

timmynocky wrote:
I agree with Steve, after all resorcinol is what they use to make
marine plywood and for good reason.

Timmynocky

Yeah.
It's CHEAP.

Glue thickness?
 

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 19:30:36 GMT, Reno wrote in
rec.boats.building:

Paint each side of dry wood with unthickened epoxy so it will be absorbed.
Wait a few minutes but don't let it cure.

Reno, thanks. I made the sandwich just two hours before, and, maybe
that looked a bit unclear, I did not do such work for the first time.
But after having had some mess aroudn the workpiece after applying far
too much some time ago, another time woo little, I wanted to approach
it in a more deterministic way this time. So, I calculated the amount
of resin for a layer of 0.2mm thickness, added some 10% for the
soaking of the surfaces, and did it then exactly like you said - first
"priming" both surfaces (after carefully cleaning them)with
unthickened resin (West 105 resin, 206 hardener to achieve more pot
time), then thickened the remaining about 80% of the mixed epoxy with
cotton fibres and fillet blend fibres until the stuff had a
marmelade-like consisistence, then spread that with a piece of
hardfibre board over one surface, trying to get a pretty even
distribution. Prior, we had scaped two thick pieces of timber exactly
to the needed curvature. The two layers were put togehter after
adjusting the positions exactly, and then clamped to the templates,
using strips of thick timbers to press the layers down evenly. Almost
everywhere, the glue protruded a bit from between the layers, showing
that the pressure seemed to be distributed evenly enough.

Now the glue cures til tomorrow, then I'll use the same templates to
glue a supporting reinforcement frame.

Thanks for all your comments, and Paul, I'll try the cloth layer
method some time!

Cheers,
U.

Glue thickness?
 

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 01:15:14 -0800 (PST), timmynocky
wrote in rec.boats.building:

I agree with Steve, after all resorcinol is what they use to make
marine plywood and for good reason.

Resocinol glues was used by the guy who built my previous boat. He was
a ship building engineer, and the boat was a Primaat aka Buccaneer,
designed by van de Stadt. Some 25 years after the launch, some of the
original scarfings and fixations of the ply sheets to the stringers
started to crystallize and crumble. And I see the same in my 44 years
old optimist dinghi (not sailed for 40 years except for one year when
my sons used it before growing otu of it too fast...) That's why I
banned it from my workshop. Sorry. The sliding hatch roof on my
present boat was one of the first items I rebuilt - the same technique
like here, and it's still preserved the same stability like in the
first day, for 12 years now.

Cheers,
U.

Glue thickness?
 

On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 15:30:13 +0100, Ulrich G. Kliegis
diesemailadressevonUlliistzwaretwaslangabersieist
wrote in rec.boats.building:

first
"priming" both surfaces (after carefully cleaning them)with
unthickened resin

Of course not pure resin but the resin-hardener mix. Sorry for the
typos! Somebody seen my glasses? :)

Cheers,
U.

Glue thickness?
 

In article ,
diesemailadressevonUlliistzwaretwaslangabersieistt rotzdemgueltig@kliegis
..de says...

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:35:22 -0500, Paul Oman
wrote in rec.boats.building:

if you clamp too tightly you will squeeze the epoxy out and the joint
will fail.

That's why I apply thickener. Enough pressure to achieve the bend and
the closure of any gaps, but not too much to press it all out.

My question just aims at the amount I should apply. Too much is bad,
too little too.

Thanks for your comment!

U.

As far as thickner the old guy I used to deal with always told me
thickener is not Epoxy. Use it to keep Epoxy in place, but don't over
use it, as it is not as strong as Epoxy...

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

Glue thickness?
 

In article ,
diesemailadressevonUlliistzwaretwaslangabersieistt rotzdemgueltig@kliegis
..de says...

On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 12:46:35 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote in rec.boats.building:

Well, if you listen to the Old School guy I used to work with he would say, you
don't goo wood to wood. Put a layer of cloth in there and use the epoxy to fill
the glass...

An interesting thought. Never heard that before, but it looks like it
makes sense - although my work here is just a hatch lid, not an
icebreaker bow... :) But... Will have to think about it. And then,
wet in wet?

Thanks for that inspiring idea!

Cheers,
U.

I used to do that with Transoms of Ply Wood. I would laminate with a
layer of 6 oz cloth in between. On one work skiff, I used strips of
cloth inbetween the frame and hull along with the usual fasteners. As to
wet on wet, yes. It's much easier to draw Resin up through cloth, than
down so I usually pust most of my goo down first, then soak the cloth
into it. I have used pre-wetted strips for tack and tape, but not for
sheets, much easier to just use a squeegee with a wet work area in my
opinion.

I would put down a layer of goo with no thickener and give it a few
minutes to soak in. Then I would lay down a slightly thickened layer to
set the cloth in. Again, you only use enought thickener to keep the
stuff in place. Then paint down more thickened stuff on top of the glass
and set a pre wetted sheet of ply on top. Then I would apply either
weight or fasteners depending on the build.

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

Glue thickness?
 

On Mar 21, 11:49*am, wrote:
In article ,
diesemailadressevonUlliistzwaretwaslangabersieistt rotzdemgueltig@kliegis
.de says...





On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:35:22 -0500, Paul Oman
wrote in rec.boats.building:

if you clamp too tightly you will squeeze the epoxy out and the joint
will fail.

That's why I apply thickener. Enough pressure to achieve the bend and
the closure of any gaps, but not too much to press it all out.

My question just aims at the amount I should apply. Too much is bad,
too little too.

Thanks for your comment!

U.

As far as thickner the old guy I used to deal with always told me
thickener is not Epoxy. Use it to keep Epoxy in place, but don't over
use it, as it is not as strong as Epoxy...

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first...http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

Fortunately, no one on this NG has seen your front yard....littered
with half-done projects that look like ****.

Paid off that $25,000 Hospital Bill yet?

I cant wait till your "heart condition" worsens, and your left on a
Gurney in the hallway, because you STIFFED the Hospital.

You must have survived quite a few nightly ass ****s from your dead
daddy, to be such a scumbag.

Die, mother ****er.

Glue thickness?
 

Too bad there is not an age limit on newsgroup posting. Say like, you
have to be at least 14 years old to post?



Fortunately, no one on this NG has seen your front yard....littered
with half-done projects that look like ****.

Paid off that $25,000 Hospital Bill yet?

I cant wait till your "heart condition" worsens, and your left on a
Gurney in the hallway, because you STIFFED the Hospital.

You must have survived quite a few nightly ass ****s from your dead
daddy, to be such a scumbag.

Die, mother ****er.

Glue thickness?
 

On Mar 21, 1:50*pm, Gordon wrote:
* *Too bad there is not an age limit on newsgroup posting. Say like, you
have to be at least 14 years old to post?

Fortunately, no one on this NG has seen your front yard....littered
with half-done projects that look like ****.

Paid off that $25,000 Hospital Bill yet?

I cant wait till your "heart condition" worsens, and your left on a
Gurney in the hallway, because you STIFFED the Hospital.

You must have survived quite a few nightly ass ****s from your dead
daddy, to be such a scumbag.

Die, mother ****er.

Here's the snotty, slimy little ****s picture.

http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/f...11/pocono1.jpg

How many late night ass ****ings did you survive to turn out looking
like a Woman? Who's the dude sitting next to you? Find him in the Mens
Washroom?