Polyester and Epoxy
Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. |
Polyester and Epoxy
My news wrote:
Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. Advice? Yeah - don't. |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote:
Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise not to use this method. The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction. I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Jan 4, 6:55*pm, "My news" wrote:
Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. The epoxy will be softened by the polyester and MEK. It will be a big mess. |
Polyester and Epoxy
Todd wrote:
On Jan 4, 6:55 pm, "My news" wrote: Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. The epoxy will be softened by the polyester and MEK. It will be a big mess. The *only* way I have ever heard of to get a satisfactory bond with standard polyester resin over normal epoxies is wait several months for the epoxy to totally cure, abrade the **** out of it and apply a barrier and bonding coat of G4 Pond Sealer then lay up the polyester laminate while the G4 is still tacky. Ideally the area of epoxy to be overcoated should be kept to a minimum as G4 works very well on wood and other porous substrates. Its doubtful whether full sheathing on a working boat will, in the long term, be maintained well enough to prevent water penetration and accelerated rot. If the intention is to prevent worm damage, it may be a reasonable solution, but the initial expense is likely to be high enough that only rich fishermen can afford it, even though they will save money over the life of the vessel. I don't think encouraging the use of large quantities of expensive resins is going to do much for a sustainable fishing industry in poor communities. Expensive boats with large loans outstanding on them *will* lead to overfishing as the boat owners do what it takes to reduce their debt. I fear that this may well seriously worsen the circumstances of poor fishermen. -- Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL: |
Polyester and Epoxy
"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message ... On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote: Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise not to use this method. The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction. I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) They are still using the old practice of cutting trees to make a dug out canoe for the bottom hull with extented sides made of plywood. The dug out canoes are being sold to the local fishermen by those illegal tree cutters. I like to introduce the stick and glue to eliminate the dug out canoe which will be cheaper for them and will save the trees. This is the native Banca using outriggers on both sides. http://www.pixelmap.ca/canoesailing/ |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:55:17 -0800, "mscres" wrote:
"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote: Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise not to use this method. The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction. I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) They are still using the old practice of cutting trees to make a dug out canoe for the bottom hull with extented sides made of plywood. The dug out canoes are being sold to the local fishermen by those illegal tree cutters. I like to introduce the stick and glue to eliminate the dug out canoe which will be cheaper for them and will save the trees. This is the native Banca using outriggers on both sides. http://www.pixelmap.ca/canoesailing/ Will it really be cheaper? I ask as in Thailand a bunch of guys came over to show the natives how to build boats and the fishermen didn't buy it. The local built boats were cheaper and longer lasting. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Jan 6, 12:55*am, "mscres" wrote:
"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in messagenews:ein3m4deg93uqh1fcmn2il8fp7ko4s3ut6@4ax .com... On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote: Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise not to use this method. The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction. I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) They are still using the old practice of cutting trees to make a dug out canoe for the bottom hull with extented sides made of plywood. The dug out canoes are being sold to the local fishermen by those illegal tree cutters. I like to introduce the stick and glue to eliminate the dug out canoe which will be cheaper for them and will save the trees. This is the native Banca using outriggers on both sides. http://www.pixelmap.ca/canoesailing/- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - for their own good.......right. |
Polyester and Epoxy
It will be cheaper for them if they can eliminate the dugout canoe and will
save them time to build the boat. I asked some boat makers in the south of manila that their waiting time for the dugout canoe is about four to five months. The price is not cheap for a very crude work that they still have to finish. It is the most expensive part of the boat and mostly came from illegal cutting. You can see from the link I provided earlier that the price of the boat can go up to 3000 dollars which is not affordable for many native filipinos. "Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:55:17 -0800, "mscres" wrote: "Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message . .. On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote: Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise not to use this method. The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction. I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) They are still using the old practice of cutting trees to make a dug out canoe for the bottom hull with extented sides made of plywood. The dug out canoes are being sold to the local fishermen by those illegal tree cutters. I like to introduce the stick and glue to eliminate the dug out canoe which will be cheaper for them and will save the trees. This is the native Banca using outriggers on both sides. http://www.pixelmap.ca/canoesailing/ Will it really be cheaper? I ask as in Thailand a bunch of guys came over to show the natives how to build boats and the fishermen didn't buy it. The local built boats were cheaper and longer lasting. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Jan 6, 11:02*am, "My news" wrote:
It will be cheaper for them if they can eliminate the dugout canoe and will save them time to build the boat. I asked some boat makers in the south of manila that their waiting time for the dugout canoe is about four to five months. The price is not cheap for a very crude work that they still have to finish. It is the most expensive part of the boat and mostly came from illegal cutting. You can see from the link I provided earlier that the price of the boat can go up to 3000 dollars which is not affordable for many native filipinos. I have on my desk at home a couple of articles from early issues of the CoEvolution Quarterly about the work John Todd was doing in Central America with similar aims. He had a boat designed that would be the sea going "pick-up" for indigenous people. You may be able to find some information on this project although I haven't seen much online. (I may rectify that soon however.) As I remember there turned out to be quite a strong reaction against his efforts from entrenched, wealthy interests that did not want any sort of socio-economic progress happening 'round those parts. |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Jan 6, 9:02*am, "My news" wrote:
It will be cheaper for them if they can eliminate the dugout canoe and will save them time to build the boat. I asked some boat makers in the south of manila that their waiting time for the dugout canoe is about four to five months. The price is not cheap for a very crude work that they still have to finish. It is the most expensive part of the boat and mostly came from illegal cutting. You can see from the link I provided earlier that the price of the boat can go up to 3000 dollars which is not affordable for many native filipinos. "Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in messagenews:sni6m4hsfkv46s0of2ivkei9ec6hpspr9f@4ax .com... On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:55:17 -0800, "mscres" wrote: "Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message . .. On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote: Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise not to use this method. The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction. I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) They are still using the old practice of cutting trees to make a dug out canoe for the bottom hull with extented sides made of plywood. The dug out canoes are being sold to the local fishermen by those illegal tree cutters. I like to introduce the stick and glue to eliminate the dug out canoe which will be cheaper for them and will save the trees. This is the native Banca using outriggers on both sides. http://www.pixelmap.ca/canoesailing/ Will it really be cheaper? I ask as in Thailand a bunch of guys came over to show the natives how to build boats and the fishermen didn't buy it. The local built boats were cheaper and longer lasting. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - you ever wonder why those boat makers are still waiting for those dugouts? they have a ton of programs to teach them modern boat building and they dont use them. the natives dont like the stich and glue boats. the boats dont behave the way those dugouts behave and they look funny. all that framing inside getting in the way. have you spoken to the poor and found what they want in a boat? my guess is that they will still not be able to afford your stich and glue monstrosity mostly because they cant take a chance on if it will work or not. dont spend time talking to those with cash that wont actually use the boat talk to the folks who will be depending on the boat to not starve. the you will get some answers as to why those boat builders are sitting around drinking wine and waiting for the illeagle logs to be cut. |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:02:43 -0800, "My news" wrote:
It will be cheaper for them if they can eliminate the dugout canoe and will save them time to build the boat. I asked some boat makers in the south of manila that their waiting time for the dugout canoe is about four to five months. The price is not cheap for a very crude work that they still have to finish. It is the most expensive part of the boat and mostly came from illegal cutting. You can see from the link I provided earlier that the price of the boat can go up to 3000 dollars which is not affordable for many native filipinos. You seem to be implying that the poor benighted fishermen don't really know much about boats and you are going to teach the ignorant people a new and better way. Sort of a missionary saving the pagans idea, which is often a trait of people who really don't have a great deal of experience in the subject, or area. My experience, based on asking questions, not on attempting to convert anyone, is that in most areas the local watermen do in fact have a fairly good idea of what type of boat is most suitable to their particular type of work. For example: In Thailand 99.9 percent of all fishing boats are built of wood. Big fishing boats - 80 footers or bigger. Recently, while I was in the yard an 80 footer was right behind me and I asked the owner why not build with steel. He replied that of course steel was cheaper but a few years ago some boats were built from steel and the boats had a lot of problems that the wooden boats didn't have so the owners generally didn't want steel. My point isn't that steel is better or worse then wood, rather that local watermen usually do know what boats fit their purpose. Given that the Filipinos are a pretty innovative people and have a world of experience working in foreign countries, adapting foreign ideas - see jeepney, for example - etc. It seems unlikely that glued plywood is going to be a real surprise to them. Re the dugout style boats you mention, I can think of at least one reason to build them that way - they will be more stable and have a much easier motion when fishing that a lighter plywood boat. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Polyester and Epoxy
"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:02:43 -0800, "My news" wrote: It will be cheaper for them if they can eliminate the dugout canoe and will save them time to build the boat. I asked some boat makers in the south of manila that their waiting time for the dugout canoe is about four to five months. The price is not cheap for a very crude work that they still have to finish. It is the most expensive part of the boat and mostly came from illegal cutting. You can see from the link I provided earlier that the price of the boat can go up to 3000 dollars which is not affordable for many native filipinos. You seem to be implying that the poor benighted fishermen don't really know much about boats and you are going to teach the ignorant people a new and better way. Sort of a missionary saving the pagans idea, which is often a trait of people who really don't have a great deal of experience in the subject, or area. My experience, based on asking questions, not on attempting to convert anyone, is that in most areas the local watermen do in fact have a fairly good idea of what type of boat is most suitable to their particular type of work. For example: In Thailand 99.9 percent of all fishing boats are built of wood. Big fishing boats - 80 footers or bigger. Recently, while I was in the yard an 80 footer was right behind me and I asked the owner why not build with steel. He replied that of course steel was cheaper but a few years ago some boats were built from steel and the boats had a lot of problems that the wooden boats didn't have so the owners generally didn't want steel. My point isn't that steel is better or worse then wood, rather that local watermen usually do know what boats fit their purpose. Given that the Filipinos are a pretty innovative people and have a world of experience working in foreign countries, adapting foreign ideas - see jeepney, for example - etc. It seems unlikely that glued plywood is going to be a real surprise to them. Re the dugout style boats you mention, I can think of at least one reason to build them that way - they will be more stable and have a much easier motion when fishing that a lighter plywood boat. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) I'm very aware that many people are reluctant to make a big change to the things that they are accustomed for generations. My only intention is to show that there is an option for them to use in replace of the bottom hull. They will still build a basic Banca but less expensive and faster to make. My plan is to fabricate a similar type of the dugout canoe from stich and glue and ask one of the natives to build a Banca from it. I believe this approach will be acceptable because the real intention is the affordability for others. I estimate that the cost can be cut to approximately 30% less due to elimination the laborous dugout canoe and the island to island transport. Imagine that some guys will go to the mountain, find the right tree with the right size, cut it down and dug it out for a crudely made canoe in manual labor and finally deliver it to another island. The plywood is available everywhere in the Philippines but the available composites are fibergalss and polyester. The only available epoxy is the thick, grey generic type. |
Polyester and Epoxy
What was the old quote?
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" ? |
Polyester and Epoxy
"My news" wrote in message ... "Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:02:43 -0800, "My news" wrote: It will be cheaper for them if they can eliminate the dugout canoe and will save them time to build the boat. I asked some boat makers in the south of manila that their waiting time for the dugout canoe is about four to five months. The price is not cheap for a very crude work that they still have to finish. It is the most expensive part of the boat and mostly came from illegal cutting. You can see from the link I provided earlier that the price of the boat can go up to 3000 dollars which is not affordable for many native filipinos. You seem to be implying that the poor benighted fishermen don't really know much about boats and you are going to teach the ignorant people a new and better way. Sort of a missionary saving the pagans idea, which is often a trait of people who really don't have a great deal of experience in the subject, or area. My experience, based on asking questions, not on attempting to convert anyone, is that in most areas the local watermen do in fact have a fairly good idea of what type of boat is most suitable to their particular type of work. For example: In Thailand 99.9 percent of all fishing boats are built of wood. Big fishing boats - 80 footers or bigger. Recently, while I was in the yard an 80 footer was right behind me and I asked the owner why not build with steel. He replied that of course steel was cheaper but a few years ago some boats were built from steel and the boats had a lot of problems that the wooden boats didn't have so the owners generally didn't want steel. My point isn't that steel is better or worse then wood, rather that local watermen usually do know what boats fit their purpose. Given that the Filipinos are a pretty innovative people and have a world of experience working in foreign countries, adapting foreign ideas - see jeepney, for example - etc. It seems unlikely that glued plywood is going to be a real surprise to them. Re the dugout style boats you mention, I can think of at least one reason to build them that way - they will be more stable and have a much easier motion when fishing that a lighter plywood boat. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) I'm very aware that many people are reluctant to make a big change to the things that they are accustomed for generations. My only intention is to show that there is an option for them to use in replace of the bottom hull. They will still build a basic Banca but less expensive and faster to make. My plan is to fabricate a similar type of the dugout canoe from stich and glue and ask one of the natives to build a Banca from it. I believe this approach will be acceptable because the real intention is the affordability for others. I estimate that the cost can be cut to approximately 30% less due to elimination the laborous dugout canoe and the island to island transport. Imagine that some guys will go to the mountain, find the right tree with the right size, cut it down and dug it out for a crudely made canoe in manual labor and finally deliver it to another island. The plywood is available everywhere in the Philippines but the available composites are fibergalss and polyester. The only available epoxy is the thick, grey generic type. BTW, The easy motion and stability of the Banca basically relies from it's length. The common size for a small fisherman ranges from 28 to 32 foot long. This is based from most local fishermen I spoke with. The 32 footers are more dependable in the open. They are lightweight indeed. The sides are made of quarter inch plywood. The dugout canoe is three quarter inch thick and an inch on the bottom. They will like it if the boat will be made even lighter because they carry Gill nets with plenty of sinks. They can use extra capacity to carry more nets that will result to higher yield. In addition, The haul can be made even wider for more buoyancy if stitch and glue is used. |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Jan 6, 8:58*pm, cavelamb wrote:
What was the old quote? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" ? "I belive the road to hell is actually paved with frozen door to door salesmen. young demons ice skate down it on nice days" Terry pratchet, good omens |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:33:16 -0800, "My news" wrote:
"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:02:43 -0800, "My news" wrote: It will be cheaper for them if they can eliminate the dugout canoe and will save them time to build the boat. I asked some boat makers in the south of manila that their waiting time for the dugout canoe is about four to five months. The price is not cheap for a very crude work that they still have to finish. It is the most expensive part of the boat and mostly came from illegal cutting. You can see from the link I provided earlier that the price of the boat can go up to 3000 dollars which is not affordable for many native filipinos. You seem to be implying that the poor benighted fishermen don't really know much about boats and you are going to teach the ignorant people a new and better way. Sort of a missionary saving the pagans idea, which is often a trait of people who really don't have a great deal of experience in the subject, or area. My experience, based on asking questions, not on attempting to convert anyone, is that in most areas the local watermen do in fact have a fairly good idea of what type of boat is most suitable to their particular type of work. For example: In Thailand 99.9 percent of all fishing boats are built of wood. Big fishing boats - 80 footers or bigger. Recently, while I was in the yard an 80 footer was right behind me and I asked the owner why not build with steel. He replied that of course steel was cheaper but a few years ago some boats were built from steel and the boats had a lot of problems that the wooden boats didn't have so the owners generally didn't want steel. My point isn't that steel is better or worse then wood, rather that local watermen usually do know what boats fit their purpose. Given that the Filipinos are a pretty innovative people and have a world of experience working in foreign countries, adapting foreign ideas - see jeepney, for example - etc. It seems unlikely that glued plywood is going to be a real surprise to them. Re the dugout style boats you mention, I can think of at least one reason to build them that way - they will be more stable and have a much easier motion when fishing that a lighter plywood boat. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) I'm very aware that many people are reluctant to make a big change to the things that they are accustomed for generations. My only intention is to show that there is an option for them to use in replace of the bottom hull. They will still build a basic Banca but less expensive and faster to make. My plan is to fabricate a similar type of the dugout canoe from stich and glue and ask one of the natives to build a Banca from it. I believe this approach will be acceptable because the real intention is the affordability for others. I estimate that the cost can be cut to approximately 30% less due to elimination the laborous dugout canoe and the island to island transport. Imagine that some guys will go to the mountain, find the right tree with the right size, cut it down and dug it out for a crudely made canoe in manual labor and finally deliver it to another island. The plywood is available everywhere in the Philippines but the available composites are fibergalss and polyester. The only available epoxy is the thick, grey generic type. I'm not trying to get you to abandon your plan, I'm just saying that the local lads aren't as clueless as they may seem. Over the years I have questioned a lot of things that seemed, from a Western viewpoint to be rational, and gotten perfectly logical answers why they aren't acceptable to the users. Another example: Why do Thai fishermen use "long tailed" motors? I asked a couple of fishermen - "why not outboards". the answer was, "because the long Tails cost less, last longer, use less fuel and work". Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Polyester and Epoxy
The plywood
is available everywhere in the Philippines but the available composites are fibergalss and polyester. The only available epoxy is the thick, grey generic type. Then in that case you aren't stitch and gluing anything. You have no glue. Maybe the locals know that. |
Polyester and Epoxy
Pirateer guy wrote:
The plywood is available everywhere in the Philippines but the available composites are fibergalss and polyester. The only available epoxy is the thick, grey generic type. Then in that case you aren't stitch and gluing anything. You have no glue. Maybe the locals know that. Don't be too harsh! Boats have been stitched together long before anyone had epoxy. It might be quite possible to get structural strength from the stitches, and cover up with something (poly+glass) only to keep it watertight. -H |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:11:12 +0100, Heikki wrote:
Pirateer guy wrote: The plywood is available everywhere in the Philippines but the available composites are fibergalss and polyester. The only available epoxy is the thick, grey generic type. Then in that case you aren't stitch and gluing anything. You have no glue. Maybe the locals know that. Don't be too harsh! Boats have been stitched together long before anyone had epoxy. It might be quite possible to get structural strength from the stitches, and cover up with something (poly+glass) only to keep it watertight. -H True, but as soon as nails became available they stopped tying their boats together....Stitching certainly works - when there is no other solution. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:16:49 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote: On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:11:12 +0100, Heikki wrote: Pirateer guy wrote: The plywood is available everywhere in the Philippines but the available composites are fibergalss and polyester. The only available epoxy is the thick, grey generic type. Then in that case you aren't stitch and gluing anything. You have no glue. Maybe the locals know that. Don't be too harsh! Boats have been stitched together long before anyone had epoxy. It might be quite possible to get structural strength from the stitches, and cover up with something (poly+glass) only to keep it watertight. -H True, but as soon as nails became available they stopped tying their boats together....Stitching certainly works - when there is no other solution. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) Agreed, but you wouldn't build commercial boats out of it. Were talking work boats here, not weekenders at the beach. |
Polyester and Epoxy
On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:46:59 GMT, Dan@ (Pirateer guy) wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:16:49 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok wrote: On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:11:12 +0100, Heikki wrote: Pirateer guy wrote: The plywood is available everywhere in the Philippines but the available composites are fibergalss and polyester. The only available epoxy is the thick, grey generic type. Then in that case you aren't stitch and gluing anything. You have no glue. Maybe the locals know that. Don't be too harsh! Boats have been stitched together long before anyone had epoxy. It might be quite possible to get structural strength from the stitches, and cover up with something (poly+glass) only to keep it watertight. -H True, but as soon as nails became available they stopped tying their boats together....Stitching certainly works - when there is no other solution. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) Agreed, but you wouldn't build commercial boats out of it. Were talking work boats here, not weekenders at the beach. Boats that guys use to earn a living... Commercial? Small business, maybe, but I'd call them commercial.. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Polyester and Epoxy
From my experience of building and repairing polyester/fibreglass canoes
damaged during rock-bashing/ white-water canoeing - polyester patches were not durable and could be ripped off the damaged canoe, with very little effort - where as epoxy patches showed much superior adhesion. Applying polyester over epoxy would result in a useless bond - suggest you test your proposed method with a small piece of fibreglass/polyester applied to the stich and glue surface and try removing it after about one week. I would use epoxy - apart from its superior adhesion and water resistance, it is not as toxic as polyester - that sweet smell of polyester is cancer producer whereas the nasty chemical in epoxy is not sufficiently volatile to be a problem - just prevent skin contact with epoxy. Where did I acquire this wisdom - building small multihulls using epoxy, during the previous 17 years - see the Yacht Research Homepage under Project Windrigger. Ian Smith "My news" wrote in message ... Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. |
Polyester and Epoxy
Ineke and Ian wrote:
From my experience of building and repairing polyester/fibreglass canoes damaged during rock-bashing/ white-water canoeing - polyester patches were not durable and could be ripped off the damaged canoe, with very little effort - where as epoxy patches showed much superior adhesion. Applying polyester over epoxy would result in a useless bond - suggest you test your proposed method with a small piece of fibreglass/polyester applied to the stich and glue surface and try removing it after about one week. I would use epoxy - apart from its superior adhesion and water resistance, it is not as toxic as polyester - that sweet smell of polyester is cancer producer whereas the nasty chemical in epoxy is not sufficiently volatile to be a problem - just prevent skin contact with epoxy. Where did I acquire this wisdom - building small multihulls using epoxy, during the previous 17 years - see the Yacht Research Homepage under Project Windrigger. Ian Smith "My news" wrote in message ... Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of fiberglass/polyester skin. I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for economic reason. Hi Ian, Looking over your work reminded me of a project I wanted to try some time back. I thought it might be interesting to build a "strip planked" hull using strips of blue construction foam and toothpicks. then glass inside and out - with epoxy, of course... Thanks for sharing. Richard |
Polyester and Epoxy
cavelamb wrote:
I thought it might be interesting to build a "strip planked" hull using strips of blue construction foam and toothpicks. then glass inside and out - with epoxy, of course... Richard, Back in the 60's Popular Mechanics / Science and Mechanics / Mechanics Illustrated had a building article: "Foamy, the boat you build with a razor blade" I haven't been able to find it online. Kevin Gallimore |
Polyester and Epoxy
axolotl wrote:
cavelamb wrote: I thought it might be interesting to build a "strip planked" hull using strips of blue construction foam and toothpicks. then glass inside and out - with epoxy, of course... Richard, Back in the 60's Popular Mechanics / Science and Mechanics / Mechanics Illustrated had a building article: "Foamy, the boat you build with a razor blade" I haven't been able to find it online. Kevin Gallimore Cool. Did you try the PM archives? Richard |
Polyester and Epoxy
cavelamb wrote:
Did you try the PM archives? Didn't see it. My unreliable 40 year old recollection is that it was in Science and Mechanics. Kevin Gallimore |
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