I decided
 

Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:


Out of curiosity, I asked the MacGregor discussion group whether
anyone had heard of a Mac 26 breaking up and/or sinking in heavy seas.
(Many of the Mac owners have taken their boats offshore.) No one had
heard of any such incidence. As you say, there are thousands out
there, all over the world and in all types of conditions.



Well Jim, to use your tack, please provide reliable evidence of a Mac26
surviving an open ocean passage that involves a significant storm,
duration greater that 48hrs, oh hell I'd settle for 24.


Hi Marty. Before I respond to your note, would you please show me any
note I posted stating that the Mac is suitable for use on an open ocean
passage of any kind? Seems to me that what I stated was that I wouldn't
want to take mine 200 miles offshore. Nevertheless, the Mac's do have
positive floatation, and they don't have a heavy keel that would drag
the boat quickly to the bottom if the hull were compromised. Marty, so
far, no one has provided ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL of one breaking apart and
sinking under ANY conditions, offshore, inshore, heavy weather, squalls,
drunk skipper, collisions. No one. Nada. Despite the thousands of Macs
out there.

As stated above, the Mac 26 is one of, if not the most popular series of
sailboats ever made, with thousands still in use both in the US and in
various foreign countries. And many Mac 26 owners (in the US and in
foreign waters) have taken their boats offshore, though few are used in
open crossings. In view of the thousands of Mac26s out there, if the
Macs did have a tendency to break up and sink, under stress of any kind,
it would be impossible to keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no
one (on this ng or on the Mac owners ng) has heard of ANY Mac26 breaking
up and sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms
of stress.

Secondly, remember that I wasn't the one who posted statements to the
effect that the Macs would break up and sink in severe conditions. Those
statements were posted by Ganz, with vacuous support from several
others. Since Ganz and his friends posted those assertions, Ganz and his
friends are the ones who should be providing evidence and proof
supporting their theories. - They haven't, of course, and they clearly
are unable to do so.


Have a nice evening.

Jim

I decided
 

Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...

Assuming the boat can't sink (which I seriously doubt - given the
pounding it would endure, it would likely break up),


--- Any evidence or proof to back up that statement Capt? No?


Is there any proof that if I go after it with a sawsall it'll remain intact?
No.

it would be dismasted for sure.

Any evidence or proof to support that assertion Capt?.... No?


Like I said, you know next to nothing about boats. That is certainly my
assertion, and the proof is what you bought and then claim it's going to do
fine offshore in storm conditions.

Don't believe I said that, Ganz. - Could you please point out the
particular note in which I said it would "do fine offshore in storm
conditions?" What I said was that you have provided no evidence that it
would break up and sink.



Then, (not that sailing would have ever been an option), your only chance
for survival would be below decks, while the boat rolled over and over
and over, perhaps even pitchpolling from time to time.

Any evidence or proof to back up that particular assertion Capt? ....No?


See other thread parts. This is boring.

In other words, you have no answer?


It would be like being in

a washing machine with heavy and sharp objects. You'd find yourself in a
non-habitable environment of flying hazards including yourself that would
break your bones into mush.

LOL.


Not so funny if you happen to be there.


In desperation to escape, you would vacate the

premises, and then either be thrown off the boat by the wave action or
you would remove yourself from the boat deliberately.


That's fascinating piece of fiction Capt. - Have you considered writing a
novel?


Read it as fact in a non-fiction book... actually several.


A non-fiction book about a Mac 26M Ganz?



Either way, you wouldn't

survive.


Great fiction Capt. Too bad you have no evidence or proof whatsoever to
support it.



Yeah, too bad.


Once more Ganz, you do seem to have a fertile imagination and an
interesting, colorful style of fiction writing. I would encourage you to
give it a try.


Jim

I decided
 

Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:

keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no one (on this ng or on
the Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and
sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms of
stress.


Nor has anyone posted any credible evidence of a Mac26m/x surviving such
conditions. Perhaps because no one has been stupid enough to try it.

Cheers
Marty

Marty, in view of the fact that no one, on this board or elsewhere, has
posted any accounts of any of the thousands of Mac 26Ms breaking up and
sinking under any conditions, as was initially claimed, do you really
think they have such a propensity? Seems to me that since that was what
was claimed, we should expect some proof or evidence of some sort from
Ganz and his buddies. If Ganz would just post ten or so accounts of such
Mac "sinkings," then I'll do my best to research the issue further. For
the time being, though, it should be apparent that I'm responding to
some 15 or so Mac-bashers simultaneously (not really difficult, but it
does get to be time-consuming), so I don't have lots of free time for
extensive research.

In any event, have a nice evening Marty.

Jim

I decided
 

Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:

adequate. What I would do in the case of approaching severe weather
conditions would be to form a towing bridle connected around the two
bow chucks,


Wow! Since you have all this experience on "big" sailboats, perhaps you
could explain what a "bow chuck" is? -

Cheers
Marty

-- Bow cleats --

Wow, Marty. You sure are smart, and you must be an old salt for sure.
You sure did get me on that one, didn't you? Bet you're proud of yourself.

(Incidentally, Marty, try responding simultaneously to 15 obviously
frustrated Mac-bashers for a few days and see if you don't make a few
mistakes.)


Jim

I decided
 

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:

keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no one (on this ng or on the
Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and sinking, in
heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms of stress.


Nor has anyone posted any credible evidence of a Mac26m/x surviving such
conditions. Perhaps because no one has been stupid enough to try it.

Cheers
Marty

Marty, in view of the fact that no one, on this board or elsewhere, has
posted any accounts of any of the thousands of Mac 26Ms breaking up and
sinking under any conditions, as was initially claimed, do you really
think they have such a propensity? Seems to me that since that was what
was claimed, we should expect some proof or evidence of some sort from
Ganz and his buddies. If Ganz would just post ten or so accounts of such
Mac "sinkings," then I'll do my best to research the issue further. For
the time being, though, it should be apparent that I'm responding to some
15 or so Mac-bashers simultaneously (not really difficult, but it does get
to be time-consuming), so I don't have lots of free time for extensive
research.

In any event, have a nice evening Marty.

Jim


Jim, Jim... it's not about bashing Macs, which is certainly easy to do. It's
about the choices one makes. For some people, I'm sure you're one of them,
and for some sailing locals and conditions, they're fine, perhaps even
great. But, they're not for offshore, which should be obvious to anyone who
has taken a look at the boat in general and the standing rigging in
particular. Even you must admit that the rigging isn't comparable to a true
offshore-capable boat.

I suspect that you're not dumb enough to take your boat out in conditions
that Joe and a few others here have taken their boats. If you are dumb
enough, I hope you survive to put us all down properly.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I decided
 

"JimC" wrote in message
...
As stated above, the Mac 26 is one of, if not the most popular series of
sailboats ever made, with thousands still in use both in the US and in
various foreign countries.

The Big Mac is the most popular burger ever. Doesn't mean I'd try and order
one in an expensive restaurant.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I decided
 

"JimC" wrote in message
...
snipping

Zzzzzz... this thread is dead Jim... LOL

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I decided
 

Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
. ..


wrote:


On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:56:29 -0600, JimC
wrote:




Wrong again Ganz. You are judging the Mac's rigging by what's necessary on
a heavy keel boat. Because of it's small size and relative light weight,
the cleats and bow fittings used on the Macs are entirely adequate. What I
would do in the case of approaching severe weather conditions would be to
form a towing bridle connected around the two bow chucks, with extensions
to the mid-deck cleats, and then tie the sea anchor to the bridle.


Jim



You really must be damaged. Did I say this????? No... but please feel free
to claim I did.

Ganz, what you said was: There is no attachment point on a Mac26m
that is anywhere near strong enough to attach a sea anchor.

Do you have evidence supporting that particular assertion?


Jim

I decided
 

JimC wrote:


Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:

keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no one (on this ng or on
the Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and
sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms of
stress.


Nor has anyone posted any credible evidence of a Mac26m/x surviving
such conditions. Perhaps because no one has been stupid enough to try
it.

Cheers
Marty

Marty, in view of the fact that no one, on this board or elsewhere, has
posted any accounts of any of the thousands of Mac 26Ms breaking up and
sinking under any conditions, as was initially claimed,


Whoa, stop! Who claimed that "thousands of Mac26Ms" broke up?

Cheers
Marty

I decided
 

JimC wrote:


Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:


Out of curiosity, I asked the MacGregor discussion group whether
anyone had heard of a Mac 26 breaking up and/or sinking in heavy
seas. (Many of the Mac owners have taken their boats offshore.) No
one had heard of any such incidence. As you say, there are thousands
out there, all over the world and in all types of conditions.



Well Jim, to use your tack, please provide reliable evidence of a
Mac26 surviving an open ocean passage that involves a significant
storm, duration greater that 48hrs, oh hell I'd settle for 24.


Hi Marty. Before I respond to your note, would you please show me any
note I posted stating that the Mac is suitable for use on an open ocean
passage of any kind?

You're being facetious right?

Cheers
Marty