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An actual sailing topic
I have twin jib halyards and am planning to replace a headstay luff
foil. The twin foil has some advantages but is more bulky, I'm not sure we will ever need to swap headsails on the fly. Another issue is the spinnaker halyard.... singular. This is a frac- rigged boat and the spinnaker halyard is run to a swivel block at the hounds then up to a thru-block just below the mast head. I've been thinking of taking the swivel block off and setting a masthead spinnaker, then mounting another thru-block at the hounds and re- routing the starboard jib halyard to become a second frac spinnaker halyard. Any opinions about the utility of these two configurations: 1- twin jib halyards, twin luff foil on headstay, single spinnaker halyard vs 2- single jib halyard, single luff foil on headstay, masthead spinnaker + frac spinnaker halyards Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
An actual sailing topic
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An actual sailing topic
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:07:05 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote this crap: A sailing topic! How dare you? I'd question if the value of being able to do a quick head sail change is not in fact outweighed by the windage of the double foil, also I know it's not much but it does move some extra weight aloft. What windage of the foil? Racing boats use them, there is not much windage. In fact, using hanks probably is more inefficient. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. |
An actual sailing topic
Bloody Horvath wrote:
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:07:05 -0400, Martin Baxter wrote this crap: A sailing topic! How dare you? I'd question if the value of being able to do a quick head sail change is not in fact outweighed by the windage of the double foil, also I know it's not much but it does move some extra weight aloft. What windage of the foil? Racing boats use them, there is not much windage. In fact, using hanks probably is more inefficient. Indeed, a foil is probably better than hanks, but a double foil indubitably has more windage than a single foil. Cheers Marty |
An actual sailing topic
Any opinions about the utility of these two configurations:
1- twin jib halyards, twin luff foil on headstay, single spinnaker halyard vs 2- single jib halyard, single luff foil on headstay, masthead spinnaker + frac spinnaker halyards Bloody Horvath wrote: Good question. I race boats, so I want the twin foil, and as many halyards as is possible. If you lose one or it breaks, you always need a spare. Same with the spin halyards. Okay. How many times do you change headsails during buoy races? My observation is that it's pretty rare. Distance racing is a whole 'nother can-o-worms but we aren't planning to do any. Spare spinnaker halyard(s) would be nice but I don't think it's going to happen with this mast. Frac rig, internal halyards... it's not a closely controlled one-design like a J-24, but there are limits to how many holes I can cut in the mast. DSK |
An actual sailing topic
On Apr 1, 8:07*am, wrote:
I have twin jib halyards and am planning to replace a headstay luff foil. The twin foil has some advantages but is more bulky, I'm not sure we will ever need to swap headsails on the fly. Another issue is the spinnaker halyard.... singular. This is a frac- rigged boat and the spinnaker halyard is run to a swivel block at the hounds then up to a thru-block just below the mast head. I've been thinking of taking the swivel block off and setting a masthead spinnaker, then mounting another thru-block at the hounds and re- routing the starboard jib halyard to become a second frac spinnaker halyard. Any opinions about the utility of these two configurations: 1- twin jib halyards, twin luff foil on headstay, single spinnaker halyard vs 2- single jib halyard, single luff foil on headstay, masthead spinnaker + frac spinnaker halyards Fresh Breezes- Doug King What you have is side-by-side vs. something like this? http://www.tuffluff.com/images/6008_foil.gif More halyards are better... you might lose one. What do you sail and where? |
An actual sailing topic
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 15:19:08 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap: Bloody Horvath wrote: Good question. I race boats, so I want the twin foil, and as many halyards as is possible. If you lose one or it breaks, you always need a spare. Same with the spin halyards. Okay. How many times do you change headsails during buoy races? Are you talking upwind-downwind? Around the marks? Or around the islands? Answer: None. depends on the wind. Really depends on the weather. My observation is that it's pretty rare. Distance racing is a whole 'nother can-o-worms but we aren't planning to do any. Spare spinnaker halyard(s) would be nice but I don't think it's going to happen with this mast. Frac rig, internal halyards... it's not a closely controlled one-design like a J-24, but there are limits to how many holes I can cut in the mast. I agree. But I've found that the more halyards you have, the better. Hell, I'd have three main halyards if I could. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. |
An actual sailing topic
jakeraker wrote:
What you have is side-by-side vs. something like this? http://www.tuffluff.com/images/6008_foil.gif That looks like the old luff foil, which had several crimps in it. What I have now is nothing. More halyards are better... you might lose one. Up to a point. It's difficult and it weakens the mast to add internal halyards, plus there are limited options on where to lead them. What do you sail and where? Santana 23, coastal North Carolina. DSK |
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How many times do you change headsails during buoy races?
Bloody Horvath wrote: Are you talking upwind-downwind? Around the marks? Or around the islands? Answer: None. depends on the wind. Really depends on the weather. Sorry, must be different terminology. "Buoy races" = around marks, generally races of not more than ten miles or 3 hours. Generally the races include reaches, not just W-L. I'm not planning on doing any distances races, ie longer point-to-point races that may run offshore and/or overnight. Spare spinnaker halyard(s) would be nice but I don't think it's going to happen with this mast. Frac rig, internal halyards... it's not a closely controlled one-design like a J-24, but there are limits to how many holes I can cut in the mast. I agree. But I've found that the more halyards you have, the better. Hell, I'd have three main halyards if I could. You could have three main halyards if you wanted them bad enough. On those rare occasions when a crew loses a halyard, I let them know just how bad a F-U it is.... boats & lives have been lost that way. Haven't done it myself for many years but it's always possible to make a mistake. It's also possible to go up the mast after a halyard, even on a small boat. I went up the Lightning mast... while sailing to windward... DSK |
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On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:18:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap: How many times do you change headsails during buoy races? Bloody Horvath wrote: Are you talking upwind-downwind? Around the marks? Or around the islands? Answer: None. depends on the wind. Really depends on the weather. Sorry, must be different terminology. "Buoy races" = around marks, generally races of not more than ten miles or 3 hours. Generally the races include reaches, not just W-L. I'm not planning on doing any distances races, ie longer point-to-point races that may run offshore and/or overnight. Buoy races can be upwind-downwind, olympic triangle, and around marks. I've done races that are less than an hour, and some that take several days. And on the longer races, the weather changes, and you have to make sail changes. I agree. But I've found that the more halyards you have, the better. Hell, I'd have three main halyards if I could. On those rare occasions when a crew loses a halyard, I let them know just how bad a F-U it is.... boats & lives have been lost that way. Haven't done it myself for many years but it's always possible to make a mistake. It's also possible to go up the mast after a halyard, even on a small boat. I went up the Lightning mast... while sailing to windward... DSK Not me. My mast is sixty feet tall. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. |
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An actual sailing topic
wrote:
jakeraker wrote: What you have is side-by-side vs. something like this? http://www.tuffluff.com/images/6008_foil.gif That looks like the old luff foil, which had several crimps in it. What I have now is nothing. More halyards are better... you might lose one. Up to a point. It's difficult and it weakens the mast to add internal halyards, plus there are limited options on where to lead them. Couldn't the lower spin halyard be used as a jib halyard in a pinch? Cheers Marty |
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"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
... wrote: jakeraker wrote: What you have is side-by-side vs. something like this? http://www.tuffluff.com/images/6008_foil.gif That looks like the old luff foil, which had several crimps in it. What I have now is nothing. More halyards are better... you might lose one. Up to a point. It's difficult and it weakens the mast to add internal halyards, plus there are limited options on where to lead them. Couldn't the lower spin halyard be used as a jib halyard in a pinch? Cheers Marty I imagine so.. better than nothing. Up to a point is certainly true... I don't think one extra would make that much difference, unless it's truly a room issue inside the mast. Why not just replace the foil with a new, old one similar to what shows in the picture. That would solve (mostly) the windage issue and you can still have two. What do you have to do inside the mast that would weaken it when you add an internal halyard? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
An actual sailing topic
It's also possible to go up the mast after a halyard, even on a small
boat. I went up the Lightning mast... while sailing to windward... Martin Baxter wrote: Hmmm,... musta had some pretty good rail meat? Comes under the heading of "Stupid Boat Tricks" but at least I got the damn spinnaker halyard back. Fortunately it was only wrapped around the spreader, if it had gone all the way up, we would probably have had to capsize the boat & swim for it, or else just give it up for the day. One fairly experienced crew (who was goggle-eyed throughout the procedure) and one total newbie. Experienced crew steered, giving priority to keep ing the boat under me... he said it was kind of like driving a bicycle... the newbie's comment was "gee, sailing is more exciting than I thought." DSK |
An actual sailing topic
"Martin Baxter" wrote
Couldn't the lower spin halyard be used as a jib halyard in a pinch? "Capt. JG" wrote: I imagine so.. better than nothing. Yep... seems obvious once stated, but I hadn't thought of it... it would be a good idea to try it out dockside, and see what issues there are with geometry & chafe etc. What do you have to do inside the mast that would weaken it when you add an internal halyard? It's not inside the mast, it's cutting into it to mount hardware. Every internal halyard needs two big holes to go in (usually with a turning block mounted) & out, plus some smaller holes for fasteners. It cuts the tension wall (front face) of the mast and reduces the section. I don't know the technical specs on my mast & it's section, so I have no idea how close to the limit it is. The tuning guide suggests initial tension of 700# on the upper shrouds which strikes me as a heck of a lot for a 23' boat. DSK |
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wrote in message
... "Martin Baxter" wrote Couldn't the lower spin halyard be used as a jib halyard in a pinch? "Capt. JG" wrote: I imagine so.. better than nothing. Yep... seems obvious once stated, but I hadn't thought of it... it would be a good idea to try it out dockside, and see what issues there are with geometry & chafe etc. What do you have to do inside the mast that would weaken it when you add an internal halyard? It's not inside the mast, it's cutting into it to mount hardware. Every internal halyard needs two big holes to go in (usually with a turning block mounted) & out, plus some smaller holes for fasteners. It cuts the tension wall (front face) of the mast and reduces the section. I don't know the technical specs on my mast & it's section, so I have no idea how close to the limit it is. The tuning guide suggests initial tension of 700# on the upper shrouds which strikes me as a heck of a lot for a 23' boat. DSK It seems a bit high, but not extraordinarily so... J-24 uppers are in the 500 range I believe... but doesn't it depend on the expected wind speed? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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