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Mainsail Controls
Not counting the halyard and mainsheet,
I can think of 12 other mainsail control lines. What am I thinking of? [1 pt] |
Mainsail Controls
"Bart" wrote in message
ups.com... Not counting the halyard and mainsheet, I can think of 12 other mainsail control lines. What am I thinking of? [1 pt] Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line, topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom bolt rope, I've heard of batten control lines. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 27, 4:31 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Bart" wrote in message ups.com... Not counting the halyard and mainsheet, I can think of 12 other mainsail control lines. What am I thinking of? [1 pt] Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line, topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom bolt rope, I've heard of batten control lines. -- "j" ganz You forgot chokers for each reef point, which loosen between the mast track and halyard tack below the reef tack allowing the sail to set smoother at the foot and permit adjusting the cunningham or gooseneck downhaul while reefed. The traveler includes 3 adjustments: the main sheet and the port and stbd traveler control lines. All this presupposes a marconi rig. There are many other main sail types, which include other control lines, one of which I believe would be called a gullet. What does it do? Another would be a brace. Another would be a parrel, one of possibly 7 or 8, What does it do, to what sort of sail? Remember to think global and act local. Terry K |
Mainsail Controls
"Terry K" wrote in message
ps.com... On Sep 27, 4:31 am, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Bart" wrote in message ups.com... Not counting the halyard and mainsheet, I can think of 12 other mainsail control lines. What am I thinking of? [1 pt] Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line, topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom bolt rope, I've heard of batten control lines. -- "j" ganz You forgot chokers for each reef point, which loosen between the mast track and halyard tack below the reef tack allowing the sail to set smoother at the foot and permit adjusting the cunningham or gooseneck downhaul while reefed. The traveler includes 3 adjustments: the main sheet and the port and stbd traveler control lines. All this presupposes a marconi rig. There are many other main sail types, which include other control lines, one of which I believe would be called a gullet. What does it do? Another would be a brace. Another would be a parrel, one of possibly 7 or 8, What does it do, to what sort of sail? Remember to think global and act local. Terry K He asked for 12, which is what I gave him (or thereabouts). -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Mainsail Controls
Bart,
I just wrote down 14 without counting Reefing, which could add one to three adjustments, depending on how you're counting. |
Mainsail Controls
OK Salty;
Take Ganz's List and then add; Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line, topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom bolt rope, I've heard of batten control lines. --------- Flattening Reef, Downhaul or Barber haul on down for Broad Reach or Run, Jack Stays (Port & Starboard) Upper Shrouds (P&S) Lower Shrouds(P&S) Adjustable Mast Foot, Fore Stay. These are all adjustments for Maconi Main. I wouldn't even know where to start on a Junk Sail or even a Lateen Sail (I learned to sail with a Lateen) Salty, if you really need to know what & how to adjust; post me off group. I don't want to be in a discussion with a Sockpuppet. I know Bart & Ganz to be real. |
Mainsail Controls
Neal;
I don't have a boat; period. I did and I sailed it and gladly share my knowledge with other SAILORS. It's post just like this that made me a LURKER. BYE |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 27, 3:31 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Bart" wrote in message ups.com... Not counting the halyard and mainsheet, I can think of 12 other mainsail control lines. What am I thinking of? [1 pt] Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line, topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom bolt rope, I've heard of batten control lines. Downhaul? Reef cringles? For a gaff, include peak & throat halyards, plus the gaff outhaul. For other rigs such as a lug or sprit, you would have buntlines & brails as well. On some sprit sails (like an Opti) you have a snotter. Great name for a line! There have been rigs that had tackles for bending the boom on each tack. Others have had a zippered shelf along the foot with a line to control it. If you include the backstay, which does certainly affect the main but is really for adjusting & controlling the mast rather than the mainsail directly- Running backstay? Checkstay? Babystay? Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Mainsail Controls
wrote in message
ups.com... On Sep 27, 3:31 am, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Bart" wrote in message ups.com... Not counting the halyard and mainsheet, I can think of 12 other mainsail control lines. What am I thinking of? [1 pt] Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line, topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom bolt rope, I've heard of batten control lines. Downhaul? Reef cringles? For a gaff, include peak & throat halyards, plus the gaff outhaul. For other rigs such as a lug or sprit, you would have buntlines & brails as well. On some sprit sails (like an Opti) you have a snotter. Great name for a line! There have been rigs that had tackles for bending the boom on each tack. Others have had a zippered shelf along the foot with a line to control it. If you include the backstay, which does certainly affect the main but is really for adjusting & controlling the mast rather than the mainsail directly- Running backstay? Checkstay? Babystay? Fresh Breezes- Doug King I'm not sure I'd consider the cringles mainsheet control. They don't really contribute to it. Downhaul.. as in using cunningham? You're right, technically, that the backstay adjustments affect the mast directly, but the effect is to change the shape of the main (and jib I suppose). How about boom brake or jibe-preventer? :-) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Mainsail Controls
"Capt. JG" wrote:
I'm not sure I'd consider the cringles mainsheet control. They don't really contribute to it. Sure they do. If you're talking about shape controls, then they only affect the shape in a negative way. But they certainly control the main, they keep the reefed section bundled up & control it from blowing all over the place. Downhaul.. as in using cunningham? Same thing for shape, but different controls. The hand brake or parking brake is different from the regular brake on your car, right? The cunningham is esentially a rule cheater. It provides a way to increase luff tension without pulling the sail outside the black bands. You're right, technically, that the backstay adjustments affect the mast directly, but the effect is to change the shape of the main (and jib I suppose). How about boom brake or jibe-preventer? :-) I'd consider that a "control line" but don't like them and have never used them on a boat I was skippering. If you can't avoid gybing, or keep control of the boom when gybing, then you need practice on the helm & sheet! OTOH for a long cruise with a windvane or autopilot, they are useful but in the way. DSK |
Mainsail Controls
wrote in message
oups.com... "Capt. JG" wrote: I'm not sure I'd consider the cringles mainsheet control. They don't really contribute to it. Sure they do. If you're talking about shape controls, then they only affect the shape in a negative way. But they certainly control the main, they keep the reefed section bundled up & control it from blowing all over the place. Well, the only time I use the cringles is when I have my second reef in. For the first reef, they aren't used and the sail is unaffected. Downhaul.. as in using cunningham? Same thing for shape, but different controls. The hand brake or parking brake is different from the regular brake on your car, right? The cunningham is esentially a rule cheater. It provides a way to increase luff tension without pulling the sail outside the black bands. I guess if we're talking about racing... You're right, technically, that the backstay adjustments affect the mast directly, but the effect is to change the shape of the main (and jib I suppose). How about boom brake or jibe-preventer? :-) I'd consider that a "control line" but don't like them and have never used them on a boat I was skippering. If you can't avoid gybing, or keep control of the boom when gybing, then you need practice on the helm & sheet! OTOH for a long cruise with a windvane or autopilot, they are useful but in the way. They work great for any reasonable length of time... I wouldn't bother for just a few minutes, but the preventer is easy to rig and unrig, and is worth it in shifting wind. DSK -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Mainsail Controls
The cunningham is esentially a rule cheater. It provides a way to
increase luff tension without pulling the sail outside the black bands. "Capt. JG" wrote: I guess if we're talking about racing... Or a sail that is cut so it has no room to increase luff tension- for example, if the head is at full hoist and the gooseneck is fixed. Luff tension is luff tension. If you can't get it by pulling the top tighter, then you have to pull the bottom... and if the bottom is fixed, then you need a cunningham. BTW a lot of new sails are made with the tack free to float up & down as tension is adjusted.... not fixed to the gooseneck. BTW 2 if you have a sail that need the cunningham pulled on in light air, then that sail is blown (or the luff boltrope has shrunk). How about boom brake or jibe-preventer? :-) I'd consider that a "control line" but don't like them and have never used them on a boat I was skippering. If you can't avoid gybing, or keep control of the boom when gybing, then you need practice on the helm & sheet! OTOH for a long cruise with a windvane or autopilot, they are useful but in the way. They work great for any reasonable length of time... I wouldn't bother for just a few minutes, but the preventer is easy to rig and unrig, and is worth it in shifting wind. So is PAYING ATTENTION I've known of two incidents where boats got in big trouble with a preventer rigged. One ended up gybing anyway, turning about 120 degrees and getting stuffed when the main went aback; the other narrowly missed getting run down by a large tow as the skipper tried to direct the crew how to unrig the preventer quickly so he could turn. Both cases were of course caused by inattention, not the preventer. But the preventer doesn't do anything a good helmsman can't do. The times I've sailed other people's boats with preventers rigged, it always seemed more in the way than helpful. DSK |
Mainsail Controls
Thom Stewart wrote:
Flattening Reef That's kind of an old-fashioned thing, isn't it? There are a lot of boats out there with only one reef point in the main anyway Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 27, 9:12 pm, wrote:
....... As far as "real", everybody in usenet is essentially a sockpuppet regardless of what name they use. True in one way perhaps. Very much not true in another. Ganz and Bart are no more "real" than anybody else here. Usenet is all ones and zeros. Everything on your computer is ones & zeroes, bud. Not just Usenet. I have met Bart and Ganz, they are very much real. And more to the point, they are both good sailors. Doug "Reality ain't what it used to be" King |
Mainsail Controls
wrote in message
oups.com... The cunningham is esentially a rule cheater. It provides a way to increase luff tension without pulling the sail outside the black bands. "Capt. JG" wrote: I guess if we're talking about racing... Or a sail that is cut so it has no room to increase luff tension- for example, if the head is at full hoist and the gooseneck is fixed. Luff tension is luff tension. If you can't get it by pulling the top tighter, then you have to pull the bottom... and if the bottom is fixed, then you need a cunningham. BTW a lot of new sails are made with the tack free to float up & down as tension is adjusted.... not fixed to the gooseneck. BTW 2 if you have a sail that need the cunningham pulled on in light air, then that sail is blown (or the luff boltrope has shrunk). How about boom brake or jibe-preventer? :-) I'd consider that a "control line" but don't like them and have never used them on a boat I was skippering. If you can't avoid gybing, or keep control of the boom when gybing, then you need practice on the helm & sheet! OTOH for a long cruise with a windvane or autopilot, they are useful but in the way. They work great for any reasonable length of time... I wouldn't bother for just a few minutes, but the preventer is easy to rig and unrig, and is worth it in shifting wind. So is PAYING ATTENTION I agree that paying attention is the most important factor, but on downwind runs of an hour or so, a small mistake can translate into a big problem. The preventer is perfect for that. This is especially true when inexperienced people are at the helm, which is fairly routine if I'm teaching. I've known of two incidents where boats got in big trouble with a preventer rigged. One ended up gybing anyway, turning about 120 degrees and getting stuffed when the main went aback; the other narrowly missed getting run down by a large tow as the skipper tried to direct the crew how to unrig the preventer quickly so he could turn. Both cases were of course caused by inattention, not the preventer. But the preventer doesn't do anything a good helmsman can't do. I've seen this happen also... or similar anyway, but a preventer does do something even a good helmsman can't do... not require 100% focus for several days or hours. Even an excellent helmsman needs a pee break from time to time. The times I've sailed other people's boats with preventers rigged, it always seemed more in the way than helpful. DSK I would qualify that by saying "many times" instead of always. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Mainsail Controls
wrote in message
oups.com... On Sep 27, 9:12 pm, wrote: ....... As far as "real", everybody in usenet is essentially a sockpuppet regardless of what name they use. True in one way perhaps. Very much not true in another. Ganz and Bart are no more "real" than anybody else here. Usenet is all ones and zeros. Everything on your computer is ones & zeroes, bud. Not just Usenet. I have met Bart and Ganz, they are very much real. And more to the point, they are both good sailors. Doug "Reality ain't what it used to be" King And, I've met Doug and he's a very good sailor as well. Also, he has good table manners. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Mainsail Controls
"Capt. JG" wrote:
I've seen this happen also... or similar anyway, but a preventer does do something even a good helmsman can't do... not require 100% focus for several days or hours. Even an excellent helmsman needs a pee break from time to time. True. That's why it should *always* be school time when sailing. GIving other people practice and coaching; and getting coaching from others who have skills you want to develop, is one of the best parts of sailing IMHO. and it means that you should always have a relief helms- person. The times I've sailed other people's boats with preventers rigged, it always seemed more in the way than helpful. "Capt. JG" wrote: I would qualify that by saying "many times" instead of always. Agreed. I could also say "in my limited experience" since my experience has been limited to the times when it was more in the way ;) DSK |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 27, 5:14 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Terry K" wrote in message ps.com... On Sep 27, 4:31 am, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Bart" wrote in message roups.com... Not counting the halyard and mainsheet, I can think of 12 other mainsail control lines. What am I thinking of? [1 pt] Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line, topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom bolt rope, I've heard of batten control lines. -- "j" ganz You forgot chokers for each reef point, which loosen between the mast track and halyard tack below the reef tack allowing the sail to set smoother at the foot and permit adjusting the cunningham or gooseneck downhaul while reefed. The traveler includes 3 adjustments: the main sheet and the port and stbd traveler control lines. All this presupposes a marconi rig. There are many other main sail types, which include other control lines, one of which I believe would be called a gullet. What does it do? Another would be a brace. Another would be a parrel, one of possibly 7 or 8, What does it do, to what sort of sail? Remember to think global and act local. Terry K He asked for 12, which is what I gave him (or thereabouts). -- "j" ganz More is good isn't it Jon. I can think of at least one more. |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 27, 9:12 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:34:13 -0700, (Thom Stewart) wrote: OK Salty; Take Ganz's List and then add; Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line, topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom bolt rope, I've heard of batten control lines. --------- Flattening Reef, Downhaul or Barber haul on down for Broad Reach or Run, Jack Stays (Port & Starboard) Upper Shrouds (P&S) Lower Shrouds(P&S) Adjustable Mast Foot, Fore Stay. These are all adjustments for Maconi Main. I wouldn't even know where to start on a Junk Sail or even a Lateen Sail (I learned to sail with a Lateen) Salty, if you really need to know what & how to adjust; post me off group. I don't want to be in a discussion with a Sockpuppet. I know Bart & Ganz to be real. I don't need any help with this subject, thank you. I just wanted tto point out that your answer wasn't serving the basic purpose of teaching those who don't know. As far as "real", everybody in usenet is essentially a sockpuppet regardless of what name they use. Ganz and Bart are no more "real" than anybody else here. Usenet is all ones and zeros. One becomes real, by demonstrating that fact by meeting someone in the group, or otherwise gaining credibility. |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 27, 7:41 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:12:34 -0700, (Thom Stewart) wrote: Bart, I just wrote down 14 without counting Reefing, which could add one to three adjustments, depending on how you're counting. You will earn one imaginary point for your imaginary list, Thom. It doesn't count ( or teach anybody anything) unless you actually post the list. Meanwhile I can add one type of mainsail control line that no one else will think of. The lines that control what mainsail you have on your boat. PURSE STRINGS. Ok, I'll bite. What the heck is a purse string? |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 27, 8:34 pm, (Thom Stewart) wrote:
OK Salty; Take Ganz's List and then add; Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line, topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom bolt rope, I've heard of batten control lines. --------- Flattening Reef, Downhaul or Barber haul on down for Broad Reach or Run, Jack Stays (Port & Starboard) Upper Shrouds (P&S) Lower Shrouds(P&S) Adjustable Mast Foot, Fore Stay. These are all adjustments for Maconi Main. I wouldn't even know where to start on a Junk Sail or even a Lateen Sail (I learned to sail with a Lateen) Salty, if you really need to know what & how to adjust; post me off group. I don't want to be in a discussion with a Sockpuppet. I know Bart & Ganz to be real. JML Sigs I was thinking about running rigging Thom. Still I liked your answer. The flattening reef is something others missed. There are some interesting ways to rig a flattening reef. |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 27, 10:45 pm, wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote: How about boom brake or jibe-preventer? :-) I'd consider that a "control line" but don't like them and have never used them on a boat I was skippering. If you can't avoid gybing, or keep control of the boom when gybing, then you need practice on the DSK Hey Doug, I can change your mind about that. I found a use for that you would not normally consider. I'll get back to you on it in another thread. |
Mainsail Controls
Bart wrote:
On Sep 27, 7:41 pm, wrote: On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:12:34 -0700, (Thom Stewart) wrote: Bart, I just wrote down 14 without counting Reefing, which could add one to three adjustments, depending on how you're counting. You will earn one imaginary point for your imaginary list, Thom. It doesn't count ( or teach anybody anything) unless you actually post the list. Meanwhile I can add one type of mainsail control line that no one else will think of. The lines that control what mainsail you have on your boat. PURSE STRINGS. Ok, I'll bite. What the heck is a purse string? A purse string is a surgical stitch taken to sew shut a mare's cervix after being bred so she does not miscarry her foal. |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 28, 1:02 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message I agree that paying attention is the most important factor, but on downwind runs of an hour or so, a small mistake can translate into a big problem. The preventer is perfect for that. This is especially true when inexperienced people are at the helm, which is fairly routine if I'm teaching. I've known of two incidents where boats got in big trouble with a preventer rigged. One ended up gybing anyway, turning about 120 degrees and getting stuffed when the main went aback; the other The times I've sailed other people's boats with preventers rigged, it always seemed more in the way than helpful. DSK I would qualify that by saying "many times" instead of always. -- "j" ganz Rigging a preventer to a winch that can be eased quickly is essential. I don't hold to the theory that it must be rigged from the end of the boom all the way to the bow. I take it from the main sheet bail on the boom to a bail or cleat on deck somewhere around the shrouds and back to a winch. A boom brake serves the purpose of preventing potentially fatal injuries caused by a madly swinging boom without the risk of forgetting to ease the preventer. A good sailor might be able to put his tiller down fast enough to slow the gybe, but one moments distraction might be fatal to a crew member. I remember the case of a guy named Vance who died front of his fiancee's eyes when a dramatic windshift near the Carquinez Straits bluffs gybed the boom across as he was returning from the foredeck. He was dead before he hit the water. A preventer or boom brake would have saved his life. |
Mainsail Controls
On Sep 27, 7:41 pm, wrote:
Meanwhile I can add one type of mainsail control line that no one else will think of. The lines that control what mainsail you have on your boat. PURSE STRINGS. Is this what you mean? http://books.google.com/books?id=BIN... kPic80fYavg4 |
Mainsail Controls
In article . com,
Bart wrote: Rigging a preventer to a winch that can be eased quickly is essential. I don't hold to the theory that it must be rigged from the end of the boom all the way to the bow. I take it from the main sheet bail on the boom to a bail or cleat on deck somewhere around the shrouds and back to a winch. A boom brake serves the purpose of preventing potentially fatal injuries caused by a madly swinging boom without the risk of forgetting to ease the preventer. A good sailor might be able to put his tiller down fast enough to slow the gybe, but one moments distraction might be fatal to a crew member. Many vangs can be removed from the foot of mast and attached to the toerail. Works great. |
Mainsail Controls
"katy" wrote in message ... A purse string is a surgical stitch taken to sew shut a mare's cervix after being bred so she does not miscarry her foal. I know nothing about horses but that sounds like an awful thing to do. What pain must it cause the mare if nature decides that there is something wrong with that foetus and it needs to go? |
Mainsail Controls
Edgar wrote:
"katy" wrote in message ... A purse string is a surgical stitch taken to sew shut a mare's cervix after being bred so she does not miscarry her foal. I know nothing about horses but that sounds like an awful thing to do. What pain must it cause the mare if nature decides that there is something wrong with that foetus and it needs to go? It's done on mares that have been performance horses...they tend to have a condition where they suck air throiugh there and have spontaneous abortion because of it...some mares are also stitched (it's one loose stitch) when they perform also so they don't suck air...it doesn't stop the labor process so if she is far enough along that she doesn't absorb (horses absorb miscarriages up to a point) and goes into labor, it is easily cut...if there was something genetically worng, chancews are she would absorb first...when that happens they have a dirty heat and you have the vet over for treatment... |
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wrote:
That's pure baloney, Bart. In any case, I have met some of the posters here in person. Like, who? DSK |
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Doug,
Salty knows Wilbur and Neal. Meets them each time Neal looks in a mirror. |
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