Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

On Aug 3, 7:31 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

No information on the type of cat. Now real details on the sea state.

Poorly written story.

A friend of mine just delivered a Cat and got caught in some rough
conditions. The boat could only sail in a narrow 15 degree course
generally downwind.

Farther upwind, the boat took too much of a beating. Farther
downwind would stuff the bows.

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Bart" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 3, 7:31 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

No information on the type of cat. Now real details on the sea state.

Poorly written story.

A friend of mine just delivered a Cat and got caught in some rough
conditions. The boat could only sail in a narrow 15 degree course
generally downwind.

Farther upwind, the boat took too much of a beating. Farther
downwind would stuff the bows.


Therein lies the problem. Today's designers, in order to attempt to get
some speed out of a loaded cruising catamaran, design the bows with too
little reserve buoyancy. They dig in and pitchpole going downwind even
when running under bare poles. Going upwind they just submarine through
the waves and do take quite a beating. The best survival tactic for a
catamaran seems to be a very small hank-on storm jib and steering so as
to quarter the waves and in the trough trying to run a little less free.
But it takes a steady hand and a helmsman who isn't tired or
inattentive.

The best thing to do is forget about catamarans for ocean work. They are
inherently dangerous and unstable. They cannot cope with storm
conditions like a well-found, deep draft, ballasted keel monohull. But
people will continue to attempt to voyage using catamarans and their
bodies and broken, capsized craft will continue to come up missing or be
found washed up on beaches. That's a fact.

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/3/2007 7:31 PM:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

An old boat, with known structural problems has a complete structural
failure in rough weather and yet doesn't sink and all three elderly
sailors are rescued without injury. How many monohulls could break in
half, or even sustain a small puncture, without sinking?

I've been trying to find more info on this incident. It certainly
wasn't a normal cruising cat, since the two hulls are usually molded
as one, and breaking in half isn't possible without major trauma. It
was probably a racing cat converted to cruising, or a old homemade boat.

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/6/2007 11:01 AM:


Therein lies the problem. Today's designers, in order to attempt to get
some speed out of a loaded cruising catamaran, design the bows with too
little reserve buoyancy.

Actually, the problem is two much buoyancy in the sterns, a function
of trying to increase load carrying, reduce hobby-horsing, and support
larger engines.

They dig in and pitchpole going downwind even
when running under bare poles.

And yet, its almost impossible to find a case where this happened on a
cruising cat. Virtually all cruising cat capsizes involve carrying
sail. As always, you're confusing cruising boats with racing boats.

Going upwind they just submarine through
the waves and do take quite a beating.

Unlike monohulls, which can go upwind under bare poles.

The best survival tactic for a
catamaran seems to be a very small hank-on storm jib and steering so as
to quarter the waves and in the trough trying to run a little less free.
But it takes a steady hand and a helmsman who isn't tired or inattentive.

Or use a drouge to reduce speed.

But
people will continue to attempt to voyage using catamarans and their
bodies and broken, capsized craft will continue to come up missing or be
found washed up on beaches. That's a fantasy that I have since I've
never actually sailed out of sight of land.

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 07:37:04 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/3/2007 7:31 PM:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

An old boat, with known structural problems has a complete structural
failure in rough weather and yet doesn't sink and all three elderly
sailors are rescued without injury. How many monohulls could break in
half, or even sustain a small puncture, without sinking?

I've been trying to find more info on this incident. It certainly
wasn't a normal cruising cat, since the two hulls are usually molded
as one, and breaking in half isn't possible without major trauma. It
was probably a racing cat converted to cruising, or a old homemade boat.

There is a bit more he
http://www.lep.co.uk/news?articleid=3097982

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 07:37:04 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/3/2007 7:31 PM:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

An old boat, with known structural problems has a complete structural
failure in rough weather and yet doesn't sink and all three elderly
sailors are rescued without injury. How many monohulls could break in
half, or even sustain a small puncture, without sinking?

I've been trying to find more info on this incident. It certainly
wasn't a normal cruising cat, since the two hulls are usually molded
as one, and breaking in half isn't possible without major trauma. It
was probably a racing cat converted to cruising, or a old homemade
boat.

There is a bit more he
http://www.lep.co.uk/news?articleid=3097982


Thanks for the link. It looks like Tantara was a Lagoon 38. At least
that's what Google returns. Sort of blows Jeff's theory all to hell that
it was some kind of cheap homebuilt. Notice how Tantara has the large
aluminum spar at the bow where the standing rigging attaches. Let the
bolts carry away on that and it's Katy bar the door.

Catamaran designs are inherently dangerous. You shouldn't have to go
around tightening bolts to keep your sailboat from falling apart.

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

On Aug 9, 11:37 am, Goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 07:37:04 -0400, Jeff wrote:
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/3/2007 7:31 PM:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

An old boat, with known structural problems has a complete structural
failure in rough weather and yet doesn't sink and all three elderly
sailors are rescued without injury. How many monohulls could break in
half, or even sustain a small puncture, without sinking?

I've been trying to find more info on this incident. It certainly
wasn't a normal cruising cat, since the two hulls are usually molded
as one, and breaking in half isn't possible without major trauma. It
was probably a racing cat converted to cruising, or a old homemade boat.

There is a bit more hehttp://www.lep.co.uk/news?articleid=3097982- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey Goofball, I hear you're getting more than your share of rain...

It's hot here in Texas.

Joe

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/3/2007 7:31 PM:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

An old boat, with known structural problems has a complete structural
failure in rough weather and yet doesn't sink and all three elderly
sailors are rescued without injury. How many monohulls could break in
half, or even sustain a small puncture, without sinking?

I've been trying to find more info on this incident. It certainly
wasn't a normal cruising cat, since the two hulls are usually molded
as one, and breaking in half isn't possible without major trauma. It
was probably a racing cat converted to cruising, or a old homemade
boat.


Not!

http://www.2hulls.com/usedcatamaran-2007/Tantara.html

Read it and weep. I bet it doesn't make you feel very safe on your PDQ
which is sort of a cheapo version of the Lagoon 38.

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/3/2007 7:31 PM:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

An old boat, with known structural problems has a complete structural
failure in rough weather and yet doesn't sink and all three elderly
sailors are rescued without injury. How many monohulls could break
in half, or even sustain a small puncture, without sinking?

I've been trying to find more info on this incident. It certainly
wasn't a normal cruising cat, since the two hulls are usually molded
as one, and breaking in half isn't possible without major trauma. It
was probably a racing cat converted to cruising, or a old homemade
boat.


Not!

http://www.2hulls.com/usedcatamaran-2007/Tantara.html

Read it and weep. I bet it doesn't make you feel very safe on your PDQ
which is sort of a cheapo version of the Lagoon 38.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Sorry, Tantara's journey has come to an end . . . " From:
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-3SXrUYM3aKqXThGnHIU-?cq=1

Sorry Jeff but it ain't looking good for catamarans these days.

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:14:06 -0400, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


http://www.2hulls.com/usedcatamaran-2007/Tantara.html

That might not be the same Tantara. The LOA on it is 38'. The articles on the wrecked boat state 46'.
When the ad was placed, that Tantara was in Puerto Rico, not in N. Wales, and finally, the ad states it's a
2003 model, but the BBC article states: "But the coastguard said even though it was an older model,
there was "no reason to suspect it would do what it did".

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:14:06 -0400, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


http://www.2hulls.com/usedcatamaran-2007/Tantara.html

That might not be the same Tantara. The LOA on it is 38'. The
articles on the wrecked boat state 46'.
When the ad was placed, that Tantara was in Puerto Rico, not in N.
Wales, and finally, the ad states it's a
2003 model, but the BBC article states: "But the coastguard said even
though it was an older model,
there was "no reason to suspect it would do what it did".

It might not be the same one but Google doesn't return any other boat
with that name. It could be 46 feet if they counted appendages such as
davits, for example. A four-year-old boat could be called an 'older
model' but the Lagoon 38 style doesn't look old so you might be right. I
wonder if the Coast Guard ever saw it upright? I'm sure if it WAS a
Lagoon the manufacturer will do what it can to keep the news quiet. That
might be why news about it is almost non-existent.

I wonder if researching the documentation number would show anything?
Ah, it shows you might be right. There's a Lagoon 38 showing owned by
some guy in Kansas City:
http://www.st.nmfs.gov/pls/webpls/cg...ssel_name_list scroll down.
Document issued April of this year and expires in 2008. Unless he sold
it to some guys in the UK???

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:06:16 -0700, Joe
wrote:

Hey Goofball, I hear you're getting more than your share of rain...

One's summer is missing.. At least I live on a hill.

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

You are such a jackass, Neal. The pictures in no way resembles a
Lagoon 38, or any other cruising cat. The article specifically said
that "one of its crossbeams was loose." First of all, virtually no
cruising cat has more than the one crossbeam, its normally placed in
the bow to support the forestay. If it failed, the rig would promptly
come down, but that would release most of the forces on the hull.

Secondly, the pictures aren't of any Lagoon. In fact, the shape of
the hull is pretty clearly of a racing style cat. A racing boat, with
two independent hulls connected by several crossbeams, could have this
type of failure. But not a Lagoon or almost any other modern cruising
cat. There are ways they could fail, but splitting in half is not one
of them.

Also, the size was stated as 46 feet; very few cats have appendages
longer than a couple of feet. In particular, the Lagoon 38 davits
keep the dinghy tucked well inside the sterns, and it doesn't have bow
rollers.

Further, it was said to be worth "tens of thousands of pounds" which
is not close to the $280,000 price of the Lagoon. Plus it wasn't
insured, meaning that it was older, of marginal value, and possibly
couldn't pass a survey.

Once again, you've made a fool of yourself, demonstrating that you
have little, if any, knowledge of boats.





* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/9/2007 3:27 PM:

It might not be the same one but Google doesn't return any other boat
with that name. It could be 46 feet if they counted appendages such as
davits, for example. A four-year-old boat could be called an 'older
model' but the Lagoon 38 style doesn't look old so you might be right. I
wonder if the Coast Guard ever saw it upright? I'm sure if it WAS a
Lagoon the manufacturer will do what it can to keep the news quiet. That
might be why news about it is almost non-existent.

I wonder if researching the documentation number would show anything?
Ah, it shows you might be right. There's a Lagoon 38 showing owned by
some guy in Kansas City:
http://www.st.nmfs.gov/pls/webpls/cg...ssel_name_list scroll down.
Document issued April of this year and expires in 2008. Unless he sold
it to some guys in the UK???

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
You are such a jackass, Wilbur. The pictures in no way resembles a
Lagoon 38, or any other cruising cat. The article specifically said
that "one of its crossbeams was loose." First of all, virtually no
cruising cat has more than the one crossbeam, its normally placed in
the bow to support the forestay. If it failed, the rig would promptly
come down, but that would release most of the forces on the hull.

Secondly, the pictures aren't of any Lagoon. In fact, the shape of
the hull is pretty clearly of a racing style cat. A racing boat, with
two independent hulls connected by several crossbeams, could have this
type of failure. But not a Lagoon or almost any other modern cruising
cat. There are ways they could fail, but splitting in half is not one
of them.

Also, the size was stated as 46 feet; very few cats have appendages
longer than a couple of feet. In particular, the Lagoon 38 davits
keep the dinghy tucked well inside the sterns, and it doesn't have bow
rollers.

Further, it was said to be worth "tens of thousands of pounds" which
is not close to the $280,000 price of the Lagoon. Plus it wasn't
insured, meaning that it was older, of marginal value, and possibly
couldn't pass a survey.

Once again, you've made a fool of yourself, demonstrating that you
have little, if any, knowledge of boats.



Seems to me you are the one who is fond of the COLREG rule that says
something about acting on scanty information being daft???

So why are you making assumptions and acting on scanty information in
this instance? Could it be because you're prejudiced and refuse to
believe catamarans are dangerous to go offshore in because you have one?
Refuse to believe they do break and do end up upside-down and do end up
washed up on beaches with the loss of all hands?

The story told about three grown men taking a two-week cruise. I doubt
three men are going to go on a two-week cruise on some glorified Hobie
Cat with two cross-beams and a hammock in between. Lose your bias and
smell the roses. It was a cruising cat and it fell apart. Believe it!

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/9/2007 7:41 PM:
....

Once again, you've made a fool of yourself, demonstrating that you
have little, if any, knowledge of boats.


Seems to me you are the one who is fond of the COLREG rule that says
something about acting on scanty information being daft???

You're the one making unfounded assumptions.


So why are you making assumptions and acting on scanty information in
this instance? Could it be because you're prejudiced and refuse to
believe catamarans are dangerous to go offshore in because you have one?

And yet, their safety record is as good as monohulls. It would seem
that you're actually reflecting your terror of going offshore.

Refuse to believe they do break and do end up upside-down and do end up
washed up on beaches with the loss of all hands?

As opposed to disappearing without a trace?


The story told about three grown men taking a two-week cruise. I doubt
three men are going to go on a two-week cruise on some glorified Hobie
Cat with two cross-beams and a hammock in between.

What? Now you're denying the obvious by claiming such boats don't
exist. Actually, there are many of that type in Europe - they were
fairly common 20 to 30 years ago. Of course, since you know nothing
of boats your ignorance in this area is understandable.

Here's one that I've been on (OK, I leaned against it):
http://www.wingo.com/sailing/fossett/index.html

Fortunately, the modern cruising cat was developed so that there's a
safe alternative.

Lose your bias and
smell the roses. It was a cruising cat and it fell apart. Believe it!

Right - even though it had "crossbeams" and was a quarter the price of
a modern cat and was too old to insure. And remember, it was
already further offshore than you've ever been.

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Jeff" wrote in message ...

You are such a jackass, Neal.

You could have stopped right there, Jeff.

Max

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:33:17 +1000, OzOne wrote:

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:14:06 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
scribbled thusly:


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/3/2007 7:31 PM:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

An old boat, with known structural problems has a complete structural
failure in rough weather and yet doesn't sink and all three elderly
sailors are rescued without injury. How many monohulls could break in
half, or even sustain a small puncture, without sinking?

I've been trying to find more info on this incident. It certainly
wasn't a normal cruising cat, since the two hulls are usually molded
as one, and breaking in half isn't possible without major trauma. It
was probably a racing cat converted to cruising, or a old homemade
boat.


Not!

http://www.2hulls.com/usedcatamaran-2007/Tantara.html

Read it and weep. I bet it doesn't make you feel very safe on your PDQ
which is sort of a cheapo version of the Lagoon 38.

Wilbur Hubbard

Funny that a 39' cat advertised on Puerto Rico suddenlt stretches to
46' and breaks up off Anglesy......and taht the remains in no waty
resemble the 39 footer.

How does a Tiki 46 gab you?
http://www.pca-seapeople.org/PCAgall...g2_itemId=4253
I agree with the comments about South Stack and Holyhead RNLI he
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.p...fpart/all/vc/1
The waves in the overfalls are a bit unusual - 'falling over
pyramids'.. but it sounds as if they were outside the worst of it.
Very difficult to say what the sea conditions were at the time of the
failure. The pictures may have been taken later or in a slightly
different location. I was out about 40nm away at that time and it was
about F5, increasing. The forecast for the St Davids Head to Colwyn
Bay including St Georges Channel (same inshore forecast) area was F4-5
increasing F7.

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

OzOne wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:04:14 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
scribbled thusly:



Catamaran designs are inherently dangerous. You shouldn't have to go
around tightening bolts to keep your sailboat from falling apart.

Wilbur Hubbard

Nor even pulling keelbolts regularly...to stop your only method of
remaining upright falling to the bottom of the ocean...?


That's why Roger MacGregor's so brilliant. Water ballast, man!

Two or three hulls in lieu of ballast is really really dumb. There's
not a sailing catamaran or trimaran made that's more stable rightside-up
than upside-down. Add the stability problem to the fact that leverage
factors dictate greater stresses and you're just sacrificing way too
much in a lame attempt to avoid a ballast keel.

If you fear keel bolts then go with an encapsulated keel. Don't
substitute an unstable design. That's retarded. Another option that's
much smarter is a monohull such as the likes of an ETAP that uses foam
flotation in the hull that makes it unsinkable. People tend to use the
dumb excuse that catamarans and tri-marans tend to not sink because of
the multiple hulls one of which gets holed doesn't make the whole thing
sink. Just more faulty thinking trying to defend an untenable position
and unsuitable design.

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:33:17 +1000, OzOne wrote:

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:14:06 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
scribbled thusly:


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/3/2007 7:31 PM:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

An old boat, with known structural problems has a complete
structural
failure in rough weather and yet doesn't sink and all three elderly
sailors are rescued without injury. How many monohulls could break
in
half, or even sustain a small puncture, without sinking?

I've been trying to find more info on this incident. It certainly
wasn't a normal cruising cat, since the two hulls are usually
molded
as one, and breaking in half isn't possible without major trauma.
It
was probably a racing cat converted to cruising, or a old homemade
boat.


Not!

http://www.2hulls.com/usedcatamaran-2007/Tantara.html

Read it and weep. I bet it doesn't make you feel very safe on your
PDQ
which is sort of a cheapo version of the Lagoon 38.

Wilbur Hubbard

Funny that a 39' cat advertised on Puerto Rico suddenlt stretches to
46' and breaks up off Anglesy......and taht the remains in no waty
resemble the 39 footer.

How does a Tiki 46 gab you?
http://www.pca-seapeople.org/PCAgall...g2_itemId=4253


The capsized catamaran looks like it has sugar scoop transoms. The tiki
has no such thing,The Lagoon 38 does have sugar scoops, though. The
question is does the Lagoon have a keels or daggerboards (or
centerboards)? The capsized boat has no sign of a keel of any sort so it
must have daggerboards. But you can see the spar at the bow sticking up
at an odd angle. It's still attached to one hull but not the other.

Wilbur Hubbard
--- Catamaran - two unseaworthy boats joined together to make another
one?

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:29:04 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

The capsized catamaran looks like it has sugar scoop transoms.

Hard to tell but I think both hulls are lying on their sides in the
main picture and you are looking at the rudders flipped upwards. The Y
boat picture blows up quite well but I am not sure what I am looking
at there.

The tiki
has no such thing,The Lagoon 38 does have sugar scoops, though. The
question is does the Lagoon have a keels or daggerboards (or
centerboards)? The capsized boat has no sign of a keel of any sort so it
must have daggerboards. But you can see the spar at the bow sticking up
at an odd angle. It's still attached to one hull but not the other.

Wilbur Hubbard
--- Catamaran - two unseaworthy boats joined together to make another
one?

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com..
..
If you fear keel bolts then go with an encapsulated keel.

Encapsulated keels are still held on with bolts 'Wilbur'

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com..
.
If you fear keel bolts then go with an encapsulated keel.

Encapsulated keels are still held on with bolts 'Wilbur'


Maybe that's what it means in Jolly Ole England but on this side of the
Pond an encapsulated keel is ballast inside a keel which is an integral
part of the hull. Usually chunks of lead or pig iron held in place with
concrete or resin.

Wilbur Hubbard

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com..
.
If you fear keel bolts then go with an encapsulated keel.

Encapsulated keels are still held on with bolts 'Wilbur'


Maybe that's what it means in Jolly Ole England but on this side of the
Pond an encapsulated keel is ballast inside a keel which is an integral
part of the hull. Usually chunks of lead or pig iron held in place with
concrete or resin.

Wilbur Hubbard

Yes, you are right. We are not talking the same language. What you describe
is certainly an encapsulated keel.
However my boat also has an encapsulated keel which in this case is a lead
keel held on with bolts and then covered with GRP enabling a really smooth
outside finish.
Often this is done to iron keels and the GRP also stops the iron from
rusting, (that is until you ground on something that splits the GRP and
allows the rust to start creeping up between the keel and the GRP).

I once boarded a small keelboat with 'your' type of encapsulated keel and
she heeled over so much I thought I was about to take a swim. She was
supposed to have 8 or 9 cwt of iron inthe keel.
I persuaded the owner to let me cut open his keel from inside the cabin and
found there was no iron there at all-the space in the keel was just filled
with foam! No wonder the builder went bust.
I raked out all the foam and put in 8 cwt of pig iron and glassed it in and
she instantly became a different boat to sail. The owner was a novice sailor
and did not realise that the boat was not supposed to sail to windward
heeled down to the gunwhales. (or even 'gunnels')

Jeff, another catamaran capsize and breakup at sea
 

It was a Wharram, and the poor owner worked and maintained that boat
every weekend at least. She was next to us on a pontoon at Glasson
Dock so can probably find a photo if any of you are interested.