http://69.55.11.240/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=184241

On Apr 17, 10:19 pm, OzOne wrote:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:52:31 -0600, "Bob Crantz"
scribbled thusly:

http://69.55.11.240/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=184241

Despite the sad death, It's heartening to see that gun control is
working in Japan and most other nations that take it seriouslyhttp://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html

Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related
attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often
raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times
higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and
95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36
richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico
12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland
6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria
3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65;
Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden
1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic
of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England
and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong
0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

I've seen this BS before. Gun related deaths may be less, but murder
rates are much higher in many of the counrties listed. Much higher in
Europe.

How was Tahoe this year?

Joe

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...
http://69.55.11.240/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=184241



http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070418/D8OITPPG1.html

OzOne wrote in message
...

Won't be back for another couple of years now, France is
calling.


I'm sure you'll like it there. You can sit at the sidewalk
cafes, sipping wine with your white hankie in hand,
discussing your hatred for the US with the other fags, I
mean frogs.

Scooter

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:52:31 -0600, "Bob Crantz"
scribbled thusly:

http://69.55.11.240/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=184241


Despite the sad death, It's heartening to see that gun control is
working in Japan and most other nations that take it seriously
http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html

Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related
attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often
raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times
higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and
95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36
richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico
12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland
6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria
3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65;
Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden
1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic
of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England
and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong
0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

All this data, and the info on Japan is interesting, Oz, but what has this
to do with the USA? There are an estimated 300+ million guns in circulation
here. How do you propose to eliminate them? Are you willing to accept the
carnage and civil war that would ensue with a government gun grab attempt,
which, by all estimates, would fail miserably. And even if a gun grab were
modestly successful, what do you propose to do about the remaining 100+
million guns that would then be illegally possessed.

Tragedies such as the Virginia Tech episode are most unfortunate, and are no
doubt a by-product of our culture of guns and violence. But we are stuck
with the problem. It's waaaay too far advanced to solve at this point with
gun control or gun grabs. A more reasonable approach might be to deal with
the culture of violence so prevalent in movies, TV, pop music, video games,
etc.

I've heard quite a bit of gun control rhetoric on TV over the past 18 hours,
and most of it centers around handguns, ostensibly due to the concealability
of them. In light of this it's important to note that the second worst
shooting of this nature occurred in the 60s with a wacko picking 23 people
off from a clock tower on a Texas college campus using a high-powered rifle
with a scope. Hardly a concealment issue.

Max

OzOne wrote in message ...
On 17 Apr 2007 20:23:52 -0700, Joe
scribbled thusly:

On Apr 17, 10:19 pm, OzOne wrote:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:52:31 -0600, "Bob Crantz"
scribbled thusly:

http://69.55.11.240/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=184241

Despite the sad death, It's heartening to see that gun control is
working in Japan and most other nations that take it
seriouslyhttp://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html

Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related
attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often
raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times
higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and
95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36
richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico
12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland
6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria
3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65;
Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden
1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic
of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England
and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong
0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

I've seen this BS before. Gun related deaths may be less, but murder
rates are much higher in many of the counrties listed. Much higher in
Europe.

How was Tahoe this year?

Joe

So you think that all other murders couls push Japan up from the
bottom of the list to the US's unenviable position at the top?
I sincerely doubt that.

Of course not. But we're not comparing equal demographics here. Japan is a
tiny country, albeit heavily populated, but nowhere near the landmass or
huge concentration of people found in the USA. Apples/oranges.

Max

* Joe wrote, On 4/17/2007 11:23 PM:
On Apr 17, 10:19 pm, OzOne wrote:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:52:31 -0600, "Bob Crantz"
scribbled thusly:

http://69.55.11.240/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=184241
Despite the sad death, It's heartening to see that gun control is
working in Japan and most other nations that take it seriouslyhttp://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html

Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related
attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often
raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times
higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and
95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36
richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico
12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland
6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria
3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65;
Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden
1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic
of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England
and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong
0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

I've seen this BS before. Gun related deaths may be less, but murder
rates are much higher in many of the counrties listed. Much higher in
Europe.

Where do you get this nonsense, Joe? Do you just make it up, or are
you unable to do simple research? Or do you just knowingly lie and
figure no one will notice?

While its true that there are a number of countries with a higher
murder rate than the US, they are almost entirely in the former USSR,
or in Latin America or Africa.

All of Western Europe, and most of the Eastern Europe outside of the
USSR has murder rates much lower than the US. In fact, its hard to
find a country in Western Europe with a murder rate higher than the
safest state in the US.

Its hard to get consistent stats since they all use different
reporting methods and different years, but the all paint essentially
the same picture.

Here's a link that you listed:
http://www.haciendapub.com/stolinsky.html

A simplified list:
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm#murd

And yet another:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita

"Maxprop" wrote in message
link.net..
..

I've heard quite a bit of gun control rhetoric on TV over
the past 18 hours,
and most of it centers around handguns, ostensibly due to
the concealability
of them. In light of this it's important to note that the
second worst
shooting of this nature occurred in the 60s with a wacko
picking 23 people
off from a clock tower on a Texas college campus using a
high-powered rifle
with a scope. Hardly a concealment issue.


Didn't the Amish Schoolhouse shooter use a 12 ga. shotgun?

Isn't ozzy an idiot?

SBV

OzOne wrote in message news
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:39:16 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:52:31 -0600, "Bob Crantz"
scribbled thusly:

http://69.55.11.240/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=184241


Despite the sad death, It's heartening to see that gun control is
working in Japan and most other nations that take it seriously
http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html

Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related
attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often
raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times
higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and
95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36
richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico
12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland
6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria
3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65;
Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden
1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic
of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England
and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong
0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

All this data, and the info on Japan is interesting, Oz, but what has this
to do with the USA? There are an estimated 300+ million guns in
circulation
here. How do you propose to eliminate them? Are you willing to accept
the
carnage and civil war that would ensue with a government gun grab attempt,
which, by all estimates, would fail miserably. And even if a gun grab
were
modestly successful, what do you propose to do about the remaining 100+
million guns that would then be illegally possessed.

Tragedies such as the Virginia Tech episode are most unfortunate, and are
no
doubt a by-product of our culture of guns and violence. But we are stuck
with the problem. It's waaaay too far advanced to solve at this point
with
gun control or gun grabs. A more reasonable approach might be to deal
with
the culture of violence so prevalent in movies, TV, pop music, video
games,
etc.

I've heard quite a bit of gun control rhetoric on TV over the past 18
hours,
and most of it centers around handguns, ostensibly due to the
concealability
of them. In light of this it's important to note that the second worst
shooting of this nature occurred in the 60s with a wacko picking 23 people
off from a clock tower on a Texas college campus using a high-powered
rifle
with a scope. Hardly a concealment issue.

Max



I was reading an article recently about all the changes that have been
made in society when so many said "It just can't be done".

Gotta start somewhere.

Jon made the same point about slavery. I asked him if he was willing to see
the country enter a period of civil war with hundreds of thousands dead,
infrastructure destroyed, and an economy in the toilet for decades in order
to grab guns and save a few dozen lives each year. So far no answer.

Max

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Maxprop" wrote in message
link.net..
.

I've heard quite a bit of gun control rhetoric on TV over
the past 18 hours,
and most of it centers around handguns, ostensibly due to
the concealability
of them. In light of this it's important to note that the
second worst
shooting of this nature occurred in the 60s with a wacko
picking 23 people
off from a clock tower on a Texas college campus using a
high-powered rifle
with a scope. Hardly a concealment issue.


Didn't the Amish Schoolhouse shooter use a 12 ga. shotgun?

I don't recall. Living here in Amish country and knowing them so
well--their absolute belief in non-violence and the sanctity of life--that
episode was especially painful. Amish are terribly vulnerable to such
threats. The ******* could have done the same thing with a machete or a
baseball bat. Every time I learn of such things, my first response is:
where in hell was the armed citizen who could have stopped the killer before
he wreaked havoc on an innocent population. Of course in Amish country,
that "armed citizen" doesn't exist.

Isn't ozzy an idiot?

Oz is actually a very intelligent guy. He's just typically liberal on the
gun control issue, though. Liberals get all warm and fuzzy from passing
meaningless, ineffective laws. Hell, they don't really care if anyone
enforces them--their work is done when the bill is signed into law. They
can sleep well at night with the deluded belief that they did something
"good."

Max