Capt. JG wrote:
Not sure if this would work... looks like the boat is about to
capsize... putting more pressure on the main would make it
worse... might pitchpole...

Not so likely to pitchpole when going slow, unless there's really big
waves. Pitchpoling is more of a hazard of going 'way fast, when the
bow digs into a wave.


Martin Baxter wrote:
That indeed, is a possibility, no guts, no glory.

I think the boat in the picture has gone past the point where the
skipper can point downwind and settle things down. But contrary to
normal sailing reflex, with an A-sail on a sprit, putting the bow into
the wind ain't gonna work. These guys could be trapped. Casting off
the vang will take pressure off the upper part of the main, works with
conventional sloops too... pretty much their last hope in the pic.


Capt. JG wrote:
In So. Cal., I wouldn't care so much... up here... too friggin cold to
go in the drink.


New technology... wetsuits!

Some crude people call them "Dinghy Sailors Depends."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

In article .com,
wrote:

Not so likely to pitchpole when going slow, unless there's really big
waves. Pitchpoling is more of a hazard of going 'way fast, when the
bow digs into a wave.

True, but it looks like there's enough to do it to it. In a sense,
you'd be going too fast if you tried to head down... at least that's
how it looks to me.

Martin Baxter wrote:
That indeed, is a possibility, no guts, no glory.

I think the boat in the picture has gone past the point where the
skipper can point downwind and settle things down. But contrary to
normal sailing reflex, with an A-sail on a sprit, putting the bow into
the wind ain't gonna work. These guys could be trapped. Casting off
the vang will take pressure off the upper part of the main, works with
conventional sloops too... pretty much their last hope in the pic.

Well, you said they only have a few seconds... I'd try to head up,
even if it meant falling on the tiller to get that way. I mean what
are the real alternatives? You have to dump the wind somehow or you're
doomed for sure.

Capt. JG wrote:
In So. Cal., I wouldn't care so much... up here... too friggin cold to
go in the drink.


New technology... wetsuits!

Some crude people call them "Dinghy Sailors Depends."

Heh... sorry, I don't want to be in water in which I'd want a wetsuit.

--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Popping the vang and the spinnaker sheet are the only things left to
do, but reaching them might be impossible. Oddly, raising the
centerboard might work, but the stress on it now would make that
unlikely. The problem is probably caused by having the board all the
way down while reaching.

I'd probably be preparing to slip a leg over the side to stay dry.

* Jonathan Ganz wrote, On 3/7/2007 7:01 PM:
In article .com,
wrote:

Not so likely to pitchpole when going slow, unless there's really big
waves. Pitchpoling is more of a hazard of going 'way fast, when the
bow digs into a wave.

True, but it looks like there's enough to do it to it. In a sense,
you'd be going too fast if you tried to head down... at least that's
how it looks to me.

Martin Baxter wrote:
That indeed, is a possibility, no guts, no glory.
I think the boat in the picture has gone past the point where the
skipper can point downwind and settle things down. But contrary to
normal sailing reflex, with an A-sail on a sprit, putting the bow into
the wind ain't gonna work. These guys could be trapped. Casting off
the vang will take pressure off the upper part of the main, works with
conventional sloops too... pretty much their last hope in the pic.

Well, you said they only have a few seconds... I'd try to head up,
even if it meant falling on the tiller to get that way. I mean what
are the real alternatives? You have to dump the wind somehow or you're
doomed for sure.

Capt. JG wrote:
In So. Cal., I wouldn't care so much... up here... too friggin cold to
go in the drink.

New technology... wetsuits!

Some crude people call them "Dinghy Sailors Depends."

Heh... sorry, I don't want to be in water in which I'd want a wetsuit.

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Popping the vang and the spinnaker sheet are the only things left to
do, but reaching them might be impossible. Oddly, raising the
centerboard might work, but the stress on it now would make that
unlikely. The problem is probably caused by having the board all the
way down while reaching.

I'd probably be preparing to slip a leg over the side to stay dry.

* Jonathan Ganz wrote, On 3/7/2007 7:01 PM:
In article .com,
wrote:

Not so likely to pitchpole when going slow, unless there's really
big
waves. Pitchpoling is more of a hazard of going 'way fast, when the
bow digs into a wave.

True, but it looks like there's enough to do it to it. In a sense,
you'd be going too fast if you tried to head down... at least that's
how it looks to me.

Martin Baxter wrote:
That indeed, is a possibility, no guts, no glory.
I think the boat in the picture has gone past the point where the
skipper can point downwind and settle things down. But contrary to
normal sailing reflex, with an A-sail on a sprit, putting the bow
into
the wind ain't gonna work. These guys could be trapped. Casting off
the vang will take pressure off the upper part of the main, works
with
conventional sloops too... pretty much their last hope in the pic.

Well, you said they only have a few seconds... I'd try to head up,
even if it meant falling on the tiller to get that way. I mean what
are the real alternatives? You have to dump the wind somehow or
you're
doomed for sure.

Capt. JG wrote:
In So. Cal., I wouldn't care so much... up here... too friggin cold
to
go in the drink.

New technology... wetsuits!

Some crude people call them "Dinghy Sailors Depends."

Heh... sorry, I don't want to be in water in which I'd want a
wetsuit.


All this stupid talk about "what would you do if. . . " Then a picture
of an out-of-control sailboat. Nobody even thought of the sensible
questions which would have been, "What should have been done to avoid
this unfortunate situation?" Instead, what do we get? A prolonged
discussion from a couple or three armchair sailors about what to do when
it's already too late. Don't even think about closing the barn door.
Just keep chasing those cows forever. Man, are you people ever pathetic
in your attitude and in your idea of sailing. Just plain disgusting as a
matter of fact.

Wilbur Hubbard

In article ,
Jeff wrote:
Popping the vang and the spinnaker sheet are the only things left to
do, but reaching them might be impossible. Oddly, raising the
centerboard might work, but the stress on it now would make that
unlikely. The problem is probably caused by having the board all the
way down while reaching.

Interesting... I thought that might be a possibility also, but doubted
it could be done in seconds... raising the centerboard that is. I was
thinking that the forward crew might be able to pop up on the cuddy
and pop the halyard. At least the mast is something you can hold onto
as you go over. g

I'd probably be preparing to slip a leg over the side to stay dry.

There are some pics of people doing just that on much larger boats. It
was in Latitude 38 a couple of years ago. You could see the keel root,
as the boats skidded downwind. g




--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote:
All this stupid talk about "what would you do if. . . " Then a picture
of an out-of-control sailboat. Nobody even thought of the sensible
questions which would have been, "What should have been done to avoid
this unfortunate situation?"

Good point. You've avoided that situation very handily, haven't you?
OTOH you have also missed the joys & thrills of sailing high
performance racing craft.


... Instead, what do we get? A prolonged
discussion from a couple or three armchair sailors about what to do when
it's already too late.

If you can do something, it's not "too late" is it?
And if racing a boat of the same type & class as in the picture for 8
years makes me an "armchair sailor" then I guess that makes you a
"total landlubber."



.... Man, are you people ever pathetic
in your attitude and in your idea of sailing. Just plain disgusting as a
matter of fact.


So why are you hanging around?

Fresh Breezes (to them wot want 'em)- Doug King

Jeff wrote:
Popping the vang and the spinnaker sheet are the only things left to
do, but reaching them might be impossible.

I'm guessing that the crew has already dropped the spin sheet (so as
to hang on with both hands). The vang is on a split control right next
to the skipper's thigh. Either skipper or crew can reach it easily.

... Oddly, raising the
centerboard might work, but the stress on it now would make that
unlikely.

Agreed.

... The problem is probably caused by having the board all the
way down while reaching.


Nah, one peculiarity of these boats.. and the skiffs AFAIK... is that
they leave the board down. The A-sail likes a hot reach and if you
pull the board up, the boat just slides sideways and can't build any
apparent wind.

The problem was caused by an unexpected gust and/or the skipper
heading up when he should have headed down.

I've been caught in this situation myself, trying to hold onto a
barely-tenable tight reach so as to make it around a gybe mark.


Interesting... I thought that might be a possibility also, but doubted
it could be done in seconds... raising the centerboard that is. I was
thinking that the forward crew might be able to pop up on the cuddy
and pop the halyard. At least the mast is something you can hold onto
as you go over. g


Yeah it's a bummer to bang your shins on the cockpit once the boat's
on her side

DSK

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 3/7/2007 7:27 PM:

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Popping the vang and the spinnaker sheet are the only things left to
do, but reaching them might be impossible. Oddly, raising the
centerboard might work, but the stress on it now would make that
unlikely. The problem is probably caused by having the board all the
way down while reaching.

I'd probably be preparing to slip a leg over the side to stay dry.

All this stupid talk about "what would you do if. . . " Then a picture
of an out-of-control sailboat. Nobody even thought of the sensible
questions which would have been, "What should have been done to avoid
this unfortunate situation?"

Actually, I said specifically that I thought the problems was caused
by leaving the board down. Doug could tell us is this is appropriate
for this class, but in all of the racing dinks I've sailed, if the
chute was deployed, the board was partway up.


Instead, what do we get? A prolonged
discussion from a couple or three armchair sailors about what to do when
it's already too late.

Spoken by someone who obviously has never been in a boat that can do
over 6.5 knots.

I don't even think about closing the barn door.
I just keep chasing those cows forever. The sheep too, but
they run too fast. Man, am I ever pathetic
in my attitude and in my idea of sailing. Just plain disgusting as a
matter of fact.

TMI


Wilbur Hubbard

wrote:


I think the boat in the picture has gone past the point where the
skipper can point downwind and settle things down. But contrary to
normal sailing reflex, with an A-sail on a sprit, putting the bow into
the wind ain't gonna work. These guys could be trapped. Casting off
the vang will take pressure off the upper part of the main, works with
conventional sloops too... pretty much their last hope in the pic.

I think you're right, unfortunately it may already be to late if the
boom is submerged there may be enough resistance to hold the main tight
long enough to go the rest of the way over. I'd be thinking about
climbing over the gun'l and jumping on the center board.

Cheers
Marty
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* Charlie Morgan wrote, On 3/8/2007 9:17 AM:
On 5 Mar 2007 16:39:01 -0800, wrote:

Boat is overpowered in a gust:
http://i1.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/8f/19/843e_1.JPG

Spinnaker flogging, boom dragging in the water and cannot be eased
further.

In the pic, the boat is still moving forward but very soon the foils
will stall and she will be uncontrollable. The skipper has a few
seconds to take action or they will capsize. What should he do?


Order Bobsprit to climb up to the high side.

CWM

If only hiking out more could help. By the time its over this far,
you have almost no lever arm, so adding RB's weight would just drive
the rail in further.