Thank you for your advice in your other post. I'll read it some more and I'll answer it soon.
I've been out in the boat taking pictures of the jib. I put ten pictures in an album. Maybe
you could look at them and make some suggestions. It looks pretty bad but maybe it can be
fixed up. The cloth isn't weak and tearing or anything. But you'll see the luff is in pretty
bad shape. You can see where the wire used to be. The eyes and thimbles broke off on the
top and bottom and there's rusty wire stuck in some parts of the luff. It's broken on some
hanks and not broken on others. But there's no way to get it out unless the sail's cut. Maybe
it's ok just to leave it in there.
There's a couple pictures of the sail shape. It doesn't look very flat. But it's drawn
right back to the mast and centered on the mast. The clew that is. It looks more curved
in the pictures than in real life.
Here's the album: http://ellenmacarthur.badongo.com/album/03

Cheers,
Ellen

Ellen MacArthur wrote:

Thank you for your advice in your other post. I'll read it some more and I'll answer it soon.
I've been out in the boat taking pictures of the jib. I put ten pictures in an album. Maybe
you could look at them and make some suggestions. It looks pretty bad but maybe it can be
fixed up. The cloth isn't weak and tearing or anything. But you'll see the luff is in pretty
bad shape. You can see where the wire used to be. The eyes and thimbles broke off on the
top and bottom and there's rusty wire stuck in some parts of the luff. It's broken on some
hanks and not broken on others. But there's no way to get it out unless the sail's cut. Maybe
it's ok just to leave it in there.
There's a couple pictures of the sail shape. It doesn't look very flat. But it's drawn
right back to the mast and centered on the mast. The clew that is. It looks more curved
in the pictures than in real life.
Here's the album: http://ellenmacarthur.badongo.com/album/03

Cheers,
Ellen


Hmm, I'm more worried about the amount of rust on the forestay
bottlescrew. If there is any crevice corrosion going on, you could have
the whole rig down around your ears next time you take the boat out.
Needs looking at by someone with experience ASAP.

As to the jib, that is one sorry luff wire. My advice stands. I do
however have a couple of additional comments.

1. Its almost certainly past the 'take it to a sailmaker' stage, that is
unless you *enjoy* public ridicule.

2. If you can get another sail, maybe a used one, DO. It will need to
either be off the same type of boat or measure the same within a few
inches along each side. It should still have some 'crackle' to the
cloth, should have no tears mended or otherwise larger than a couple of
inches and the luff wire shouldn't feel crunchy when you flex the luff
betweeen your hands(Bend it in about a 3" radius curve, it should spring
back immediately) nor should there be any more than small slight
isolated ruist stains. Most or all of the stitching should be good and
none of the corner eyes should be damaged. If it hasn't got hanks or
even eyelets for them, DONT WORRY as long as there is a luff wire and a
wide enough tabling on the luff to add them without cutting any stiching
if needed later. If you have any friend who sails, take them with you
when buying second hand.

3. If you cant get a replacement (money or availibility) your current
sail can *probably* be saved. Get it off the boat and do the shape test
I described and get back to me with the results. Closeups of both sides
of the sail at each corner on a flat smooth light coloured surface, with
the whole of the corner and its reinforcement patch visible and
carefully focussed would assist a lot in assessing the sail. I doubt you
are skilled enough and ready to work a complete new clew eye yet even if
I can rebuild the corner of a sail if I have to. Done any canvaswork
before? If not, see if there are any books you can borrow from a library.

4. The Oxalic acid solution I described is TOXIC by skin contact or if
swallowed or otherwise ingested and the Formic acid isn't very nice
either. AVOID SKIN CONTACT and have plenty of fresh water to wash off
any splashes immediately. It will attack *any* common metal so dont get
it on any corner of the sail you wish to save (unless you want to be
putting new eyes in the corners) and use a plastic container. Spilt or
waste acid should be neutralised with pordered or granular chalk or
limestone untill it stops fizzing before dispopsal. Read the safety
instructions on the packet. They will do what I said they would and the
oxalic acid is safe on normally stitched polyester sailcloth (not
suitable for high tech laminates), but with a sail in that bad condition
it may take several extended treatments to get the rust out, rinseing
thouroughly in between.

5. As a last resort after the Oxalic has done its work, if you still
cant shift the old luff wire you could unpick the SINGLE line of zigzag
stitching nearest to the wire. Also remove all the hanks and damaged
eyelets for them (carefully cutting the brass with sharp pointed snips
in several places round the ring without nipping the cloth then peeling
the brass back works for me). Wearing gloves to protect you from sharp
wire ends roll the wire inside the luff between your palms, shaking as
much rust out as possible. You should then be able to snip the wire at
several of the eyelets you removed without further damaging the cloth
and remove the wire piecemeal. I would'nt be surprised to find it has a
plastic coating over the wire which would be why it rusted. When you've
got it out, a thourough re-treatment with the Oxalic should get *most*
of the staining out of the cloth. Refitting the new wire is much as I
described, but you'll need to re-stitch the zigzag seam by hand with the
wire in the correct place, re-using the same needleholes and either
going back over it or using two needles so its double stitched with one
thread lieing on each side of the cloth at every stitch.

If you complete the job properly, I dont *CARE* if you are related or
connected to ADN, you *ARE* a proper sailor.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed,
All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy.

Ian,

Good luck with your advice. If it Neal that rec'v. it, it just may be
late all the way around.

I tried to warn him about cheap Hong Kong Sail for his Coranodo but he
got stuck with them.

It sure looks like that Jib was made with an Iron Cable for a Bolt Rope.
Now what kind of an Idiot would accept a sail whose bolt rope was
magnetic. An who would have been stupid enough to not have replaced it
after owning the boat almost a year?

As I said; Good Luck

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

"Thom Stewart" wrote
Good luck with your advice. If it Neal that rec'v. it, it just may be
late all the way around.

I tried to warn him about cheap Hong Kong Sail for his Coranodo but he
got stuck with them.

It sure looks like that Jib was made with an Iron Cable for a Bolt Rope.
Now what kind of an Idiot would accept a sail whose bolt rope was
magnetic. An who would have been stupid enough to not have replaced it
after owning the boat almost a year?

Duh! I don't think my little sail would fit a Coronado 27. I only wish my sails
were only a year old. I think they're the originals that came with the boat.
That would make them about twenty years old. No wonder the cable rusted
through. They probably were put away wet with salt water on them and
sat in the bag inside the boat for years before I bought it.
But Ian's given me some good advice. I'm going to snip out some of the
zigzag stitching and I'm gonna get all the broken rusty cable out the back
way. Then I'm gonna sew it back up using the same holes. It's really hard to
push a needle through the sailcloth but easy where there's already a hole.
Then I'm gonna roll the sail up tight along the luff. Then I'm gonna soak the
luff in a bucket with a couple inches of oxalic acid in it until the rust is gone.
I googled sailmakers supplies and found a great site for things I need.
http://www.sailmakerssupply.com/prod_detail_list/24 Check out those little
plastic swivel hanks. I'm gonna get about eight of those and just screw them
on. I can put a little bolt rope in when I put the luff tape on. No more green
corroding brass hanks for me and no more corroding hank grommets.
Then I'm gonna get some dacron luff tape and sew it on using a sewing
machine. http://www.sailmakerssupply.com/prod_detail_list/30 Probably
the five inch wide tape would be perfect. It can wrap around the luff and
be about two and a half inches wide on both sides. With zigzag stitches it'll
look perfect. It will also cover up the black patches.
I decided I don't want another cable. It makes the sail stiff and hard
to put in the bag. I can clean and scrape the grommets on the head and tack
and make them look better if the acid doesn't do it. Then maybe I can use
some of the oxalic acid to get rid of the stains on the rest of the sail. Then
I can use something to brighten them up. They'll be almost like new. And it
won't cost too much.
Don't you wish you had a boat.? See all the fun your missing :-) I guess
you sold yours. I didn't realize it till I read one of your posts recently. The
one about how your glad you don't have a boat any more because of the snow....
Hey, you should get a little Tangerine like mine. You could keep it on a trailer
in your driveway and you could go sailing when it was nice. The mast isn't too
hard to get up. One person to steady it and one person to pull it up using the
jib halyard.

Cheers,
Ellen

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Thom Stewart" wrote
Good luck with your advice. If it Neal that rec'v. it, it just may be
late all the way around.

I tried to warn him about cheap Hong Kong Sail for his Coranodo but he
got stuck with them.

It sure looks like that Jib was made with an Iron Cable for a Bolt Rope.
Now what kind of an Idiot would accept a sail whose bolt rope was
magnetic. An who would have been stupid enough to not have replaced it
after owning the boat almost a year?

Duh! I don't think my little sail would fit a Coronado 27. I only wish my sails
were only a year old. I think they're the originals that came with the boat.
That would make them about twenty years old. No wonder the cable rusted
through. They probably were put away wet with salt water on them and
sat in the bag inside the boat for years before I bought it.
But Ian's given me some good advice. I'm going to snip out some of the
zigzag stitching and I'm gonna get all the broken rusty cable out the back
way. Then I'm gonna sew it back up using the same holes. It's really hard to
push a needle through the sailcloth but easy where there's already a hole.
Then I'm gonna roll the sail up tight along the luff. Then I'm gonna soak the
luff in a bucket with a couple inches of oxalic acid in it until the rust is gone.
I googled sailmakers supplies and found a great site for things I need.
http://www.sailmakerssupply.com/prod_detail_list/24 Check out those little
plastic swivel hanks. I'm gonna get about eight of those and just screw them
on. I can put a little bolt rope in when I put the luff tape on. No more green
corroding brass hanks for me and no more corroding hank grommets.
Then I'm gonna get some dacron luff tape and sew it on using a sewing
machine. http://www.sailmakerssupply.com/prod_detail_list/30 Probably
the five inch wide tape would be perfect. It can wrap around the luff and
be about two and a half inches wide on both sides. With zigzag stitches it'll
look perfect. It will also cover up the black patches.
I decided I don't want another cable. It makes the sail stiff and hard
to put in the bag. I can clean and scrape the grommets on the head and tack
and make them look better if the acid doesn't do it. Then maybe I can use
some of the oxalic acid to get rid of the stains on the rest of the sail. Then
I can use something to brighten them up. They'll be almost like new. And it
won't cost too much.
Don't you wish you had a boat.? See all the fun your missing :-) I guess
you sold yours. I didn't realize it till I read one of your posts recently. The
one about how your glad you don't have a boat any more because of the snow....
Hey, you should get a little Tangerine like mine. You could keep it on a trailer
in your driveway and you could go sailing when it was nice. The mast isn't too
hard to get up. One person to steady it and one person to pull it up using the
jib halyard.



You would be better off trashing the sail and buying a new one.

Joe
Cheers,
Ellen

"Joe" wrote

You would be better off trashing the sail and buying a new one.


Probably. But then I wouldn't be able to tell people, "original sails".
A boat with original sails is kewler don't you think?

Cheers,
Ellen

"Ian Malcolm" wrote
Hmm, I'm more worried about the amount of rust on the forestay bottlescrew. If there is any crevice corrosion going
on, you could have the whole rig down around your ears next time you take the boat out. Needs looking at by someone
with experience ASAP.

Bottlescrew? Is that the turnbuckle? The turnbuckle's OK.
The forestay broke during a storm and the only thing holding up the
mast was the jib halyard and the backstays so you know what your talking
about. But I had a new forestay made up. They wanted the turnbuckle too.
They said they needed to adjust it to the middle position to make the forestay
the right length. They cleaned it up so it looked like new and they never said
there was anything wrong with it. That was about six months ago. The salt air
rusts things pretty fast.

1. Its almost certainly past the 'take it to a sailmaker' stage, that is unless you *enjoy* public ridicule.

roflmao Do you think I'd be here if public ridicule bothered me?

2. If you can get another sail, maybe a used one, DO. It will need to either be off the same type of boat or measure
the same within a few inches along each side. It should still have some 'crackle' to the cloth, should have no tears
mended or otherwise larger than a couple of inches and the luff wire shouldn't feel crunchy when you flex the luff
betweeen your hands(Bend it in about a 3" radius curve, it should spring back immediately) nor should there be any
more than small slight isolated ruist stains. Most or all of the stitching should be good and none of the corner eyes
should be damaged. If it hasn't got hanks or even eyelets for them, DONT WORRY as long as there is a luff wire and a
wide enough tabling on the luff to add them without cutting any stiching if needed later. If you have any friend who
sails, take them with you when buying second hand.

I could look around on the Internet for used jibs but finding one that's
blue and white like mine's probably impossible. Most sails are just plain
white.

3. If you cant get a replacement (money or availibility) your current sail can *probably* be saved.

I'll save it.... I can hand sew. Duh! I have friends with machines.

4. The Oxalic acid solution I described is TOXIC by skin contact or if swallowed or otherwise ingested and the Formic
acid isn't very nice either. AVOID SKIN CONTACT and have plenty of fresh water to wash off any splashes immediately.
It will attack *any* common metal so dont get it on any corner of the sail you wish to save (unless you want to be
putting new eyes in the corners) and use a plastic container. Spilt or waste acid should be neutralised with pordered
or granular chalk or limestone untill it stops fizzing before dispopsal. Read the safety instructions on the packet.
They will do what I said they would and the oxalic acid is safe on normally stitched polyester sailcloth (not suitable
for high tech laminates), but with a sail in that bad condition it may take several extended treatments to get the
rust out, rinseing thouroughly in between.

Duh! I'm not that dumb. I know acid burns. I'll wear rubber gloves and rinse it
all off several times. I'm just surprised the acid won't dissolve the sailcloth or take
the color out of it. Are you sure it won't turn the blue white?

5. As a last resort after the Oxalic has done its work, if you still cant shift the old luff wire you could unpick the
SINGLE line of zigzag stitching nearest to the wire. Also remove all the hanks and damaged eyelets for them (carefully
cutting the brass with sharp pointed snips in several places round the ring without nipping the cloth then peeling the
brass back works for me). Wearing gloves to protect you from sharp wire ends roll the wire inside the luff between
your palms, shaking as much rust out as possible. You should then be able to snip the wire at several of the eyelets
you removed without further damaging the cloth and remove the wire piecemeal. I would'nt be surprised to find it has
a plastic coating over the wire which would be why it rusted. When you've got it out, a thourough re-treatment with
the Oxalic should get *most* of the staining out of the cloth. Refitting the new wire is much as I described, but
you'll need to re-stitch the zigzag seam by hand with the wire in the correct place, re-using the same needleholes and
either going back over it or using two needles so its double stitched with one thread lieing on each side of the cloth
at every stitch.

Thanks, I *will* get all the old wire out even if I have to unstitch the whole
thing. Your right it's better than cutting the luff in front. That was a good
suggestion. I'm gonna put cord in instead of wire. Those plastic hanks need
something round to grip on or they'll probably slide up and down. Edgar
says those plastic hanks are trash. But they only cost sixty cents each and
they're easier to put on. If they keep coming off all by themselves I can
always take them back off and put on brass hanks. But brass hanks cost about
five dollars each and are just going to get all corroded again....

Cheers,
Ellen

P.S. I wish you wouldn't believe Katy's lies. She's just jealous of me. She's been
poisoning everybody against me from the very start. What a bitch!