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OzOne wrote in message ...

More guns equal more murders - study

From correspondents in Washington

January 12, 2007 02:18pm
Article from: Reuters


AMERICAN states where more people own guns have higher murder rates,
including murders of children, researchers at the Harvard School of
Public Health have reported.

Oz, you are either damned gullible, or patently disingenuous. This study
includes illegal gun ownership, in fact it was specifically designed to not
only include illegally-owned guns, but to highlight them. Nearly every
inner city gang thug and/or drug dealer/trafficker owns a gun or twelve.
And the "children" in the study include anyone up to and including 20 years
of age, expressly including the gang members and druggies who are killed
every day in this country.

Eliminate the gangs and the drug subculture and the conclusion of this study
is completely invalid.

Max

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http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...6-1702,00.html
Really...they used available statistics..where does your information
come from?

Exactly. One thing I learned in all of those science classes in college was
NEVER BELIEVE A STUDY THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE STASTISTICS. Oh yeah and always
look at the criteria for those statistics and how the collected them.

That is also a news article posted in an Australian news site. I would say
that any foreign news source that claims some unheard of American group came
up with some kin dof numbers is probably less than reputable. But the news
never lies.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
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scbafreak via BoatKB.com wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...6-1702,00.html
Really...they used available statistics..where does your information
come from?

Exactly. One thing I learned in all of those science classes in college was
NEVER BELIEVE A STUDY THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE STASTISTICS. Oh yeah and always
look at the criteria for those statistics and how the collected them.

That is also a news article posted in an Australian news site. I would say
that any foreign news source that claims some unheard of American group came
up with some kin dof numbers is probably less than reputable. But the news
never lies.


The numbers came from a major study done, in part, by the US Centers
for Disease Controls and Prevention, the CDC. In other words, the US
government. The study did a large number of survey in households
across the country, and asked a large number of questions. The
primary goal was medical, but a lot of data, such as the number of
households with a gun, was collected.

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The numbers came from a major study done, in part, by the US Centers
for Disease Controls and Prevention, the CDC.

Yes the numbers came from data collected that was not focusing on this topic.
Not only does that lend no credibility to the data on gun ownership but also
no distinguishing between legal vs. illegal ownership. Also, because the
study that collected the data was not based on gun ownership no measures were
taken to offset those that are lying about gun ownership because they don't
trust the government. If the CDC had collected the data with this projec tin
mind I would be a little less scepticle but you can't take numbers that
someone else collected as a side note then combine it with other data and
call it good research.

They say right here "His team used data from a US Centres for Disease Control
and Prevention survey of 200,000 people in all 50 states." Not his team
worked with the CDC to collect data. Not His team used data collected for a
similar purpose.

This study also doesn't say what they mean by states with highest gun
ownership. Is that numbers of guns in houses that posses at least one,
numbers of guns per thousand housholds, or just highest numbers. They say
"In states with the most guns". Since California has over 36 million people
while North Dakota has just over 600,000 It could be that everyone in ND owns
a gun while only 10% of Californians do but in CA we would come out with more
gun ownership even though a lot less houses would have them. In this
hypothetical scenario there would be well over one gun per houshold in ND but
they would still be put much lower on the list.

This is what I mean by not taking them at thier word. They are not reporting
any real information here just enough to get people all upset and post this
crap on NGs all over the world.

--
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If guns can't prevent or stop crime then why are police armed?

The only logical conclusion based upon guns causing crime is that the police
are criminals.

Why does it bother you that people who live on the other side of the earth
own guns? Wouldn't it be more productive to worry about your wonderful
Muslim neighbors? Perhaps ChiCom imperialist expansion?

America has not invaded or taken over a country in more than 4 years so I
don't understand your concerns.

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because they need to be armed against an armed community.

Saying that guns are responsible for crime is like saying pencils are
responsible for misspelled words. The people are responsible. In countries
that ban firearms there is just as much crime, not to mention that KILLING
SOMEONE IS ILLEGAL. If you make the gun illegal why would someone say 'oh
well I was going to shoot you but owning a gun is illegal so i guess I wont'.
Yeah that's real bright.

--
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OzOne wrote in message ...
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:22:53 -0700, "Gilligan"
scribbled thusly:

If guns can't prevent or stop crime then why are police armed?

because they need to be armed against an armed community.



An armed community. Just what the second amendment intended. That is the
ultimate check against government excess and abuse.

Unarmed Australian citizens are living in a police state. You just don't
know it yet.

Switzerland: An assault rifle on every mantle, a rocket launcher in every
garage. Never invaded, not even by the Nazis.

The Swiss even get their ammo subsidized by the government:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland

How much are you paying for ammo in Ozzie land?

One might conclude that as a society the Ozzies are barbarians compared to
the Swiss. Can't trust 'em with guns.

Here's the proper outlook on guns in America:

Guns In the Household
68-year old gun owner Lloyd Bonifide claims it keeps his mind sharp and
adrenaline up if he leaves a loaded weapon somewhere in the house with his
5-year old grandson. This is full segment featuring the classic clip "Lloyd
fights his way off hold." from March 2000. (00:30:08)



Amen!

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Yeah yeah, heard it before.
Put a gun in someones hand and when he gets ****ed off, or depressed,
he may use it.
No gun and he might just think..or even just punch someone in the nose
not 'blow em away'

Yes because logically it is the same thing. The other day I waas cutting
some meat for dinner, I got ****ed off at some A-hole and I stabbed him in
the face. The government should have never let me make dinner in the first
place. It wasn't my fault, I had no choice in my actions and the
consequences really have nothing to do with me. it was the chickens fault
for not being born in bite sized pieces. No wait that 'might' be stretching
it a bit far. I should have to give up some freedom, control over my life
and the idea that I can decide between right and wrong because knives are
sharp and guns push a peice of metal really fast. Yes that is okay.

Did you know that one of the first things Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin did
when they got into power was to implement gun control policies and make the
people think it was a good idea to take away their guns? Today the democrats
justification, in the U.S., to reduce gun ownership is alomst identical to
the justification that Hitler used.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com

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Yes, nothing like a good shootout with Police eh....

I would rather the police be able to shoot back at some criminal that is
carrying an illegal weapon, doing illegal things then have then just say in a
firm tone while holding a stick that they should calm down and stop shooting
people.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com

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Actually it's not.
They have seen the figures and studies....Hitler and Musso did none.

Hitler did studies saying that whites were biologically supperior to every
other race on the planet therby justifying murdering all of them. Studies
are not all encompassing and conclusive. There is no real good data saying
that having legal firearms ownership causes crime. I am a big advocate on
firearms safety training for everyone that owns one. Most accidents are
because people don't know better. All non-accidents are because people
wanted to kill someone. Killing people is already illegal.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com

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OzOne wrote in message ...



Switzerland: An assault rifle on every mantle, a rocket launcher in every
garage. Never invaded, not even by the Nazis.

Yes..have you seen the size of their military?
All Swiss are regarded loosely as reserves....


http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm clearly states as a matter
of US law:

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free
able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein,
who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five
years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively
be enrolled in the militia,

Just like Switzerland. Except women and negroes are not militia.

You shouldn't own a gun because you just shot yourself in the foot.

Hopefully the foot wasn't in your mouth.

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You shouldn't own a gun because you just shot yourself in the foot.

Hopefully the foot wasn't in your mouth.

Well if you did a study saying its okay for him to shoot himself in the foot
then it should be okay.

--
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"scbafreak via BoatKB.com" u25927@uwe wrote in message
news:6c32c8aa661a7@uwe...
You shouldn't own a gun because you just shot yourself in the foot.

Hopefully the foot wasn't in your mouth.

Well if you did a study saying its okay for him to shoot himself in the
foot
then it should be okay.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com


Arguments against gun ownership are driven by emotional hysterics. It has
been repeatedly shown that those who scream the loudest against guns usually
own a few themselves:

http://www.enterstageright.com/archi.../0302brady.htm

An ironic twist occurs late in the story. Her bright, but troublesome son
matured into a responsible young man and he wished to receive a hunting
rifle for Christmas. At first horrified, Brady decided that her son was a
grown man and she wasn't going to let her personal feelings get in the way
of giving him what he wanted for Christmas. She writes, "I no longer wanted
to play judge and jury" in his life. If only the rest of us were so
fortunate.

Her experience at the gun store is priceless. She seems afraid that the gun
owners in the shop might turn on her if they discover who she is as the gun
dealer calls in her identifying information to request government approval
of her purchase. Her feelings are similar to those reported by responsible
gun owners who feel they are treated like criminals every time they buy a
firearm.

http://www.gunowners.org/pr0203.htm

http://www.stentorian.com/2ndamend/l...s/kennedy.html



You can't own guns! You can't have all that money! You can't think like
that! You cannot teach your kids that! You can't freely enter into that
contract! You can't think for yourself!

If only these idiot liberals could look at themselves.

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OzOne wrote in message ...
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:27:33 -0700, "Gilligan"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..



Switzerland: An assault rifle on every mantle, a rocket launcher in
every
garage. Never invaded, not even by the Nazis.

Yes..have you seen the size of their military?
All Swiss are regarded loosely as reserves....


http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm clearly states as a
matter
of US law:

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free
able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein,
who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of
forty-five
years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and
respectively
be enrolled in the militia,

Just like Switzerland. Except women and negroes are not militia.

You shouldn't own a gun because you just shot yourself in the foot.

Hopefully the foot wasn't in your mouth.



So you any every able bodied male in the US is in the militia?

That's great...


It's what makes America great.

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OzOne wrote in message ...

Yes...Did anyone mention disarming Police of Military?


Here's a good reason for it:

http://player.clipsyndicate.com/play...?wpid=47&cpt=8

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Yes...Did anyone mention disarming Police of Military?

So then there would still be legal ownership of firearms but only by
government personnel. So now if the Government gets even more out of control
and the people need to defend themselves, oh well. Oh and the fact hat
people will still be able to get ahold of firearms and kill people. Guns are
illegal in England but plenty of crimes are still committed there with all
sorts of them even ones that arae illegal in the U.S.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com

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Did you look that up in your copy of Mein Kampf ?

Scooter

OzOne wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 01:19:34 GMT, "scbafreak via
BoatKB.com"
u25927@uwe scribbled thusly:


Did you know that one of the first things Hitler,
Mussolini and Stalin did
when they got into power was to implement gun control
policies and make the
people think it was a good idea to take away their guns?
Today the democrats
justification, in the U.S., to reduce gun ownership is
alomst identical to
the justification that Hitler used.

Actually it's not.
They have seen the figures and studies....Hitler and Musso
did none.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

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OzOne wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:07:22 -0700, "Gilligan"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:22:53 -0700, "Gilligan"
scribbled thusly:

If guns can't prevent or stop crime then why are police
armed?

because they need to be armed against an armed
community.



An armed community. Just what the second amendment
intended. That is the
ultimate check against government excess and abuse.

Yes, nothing like a good shootout with Police eh....


Can you just imagine what some police would do if the public
were totally unarmed?

Why can't we all just get along? RK

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NYC is a shining example of how 'gun control' reduces crime,
eh mate?

Scooter

"scbafreak via BoatKB.com" u25927@uwe wrote in message
news:6c33168292a4f@uwe...
Yes...Did anyone mention disarming Police of Military?

So then there would still be legal ownership of firearms
but only by
government personnel. So now if the Government gets even
more out of control
and the people need to defend themselves, oh well. Oh and
the fact hat
people will still be able to get ahold of firearms and
kill people. Guns are
illegal in England but plenty of crimes are still
committed there with all
sorts of them even ones that arae illegal in the U.S.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com

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Scotty wrote:
NYC is a shining example of how 'gun control' reduces crime,
eh mate?

You forgot about D.C. they don't allow guns in the city at all except for by
police and military. THat's exactly what OzOne is propossing right? They
have one of the highest murder rates in the country. But they don't count
because they are not really a state. Oh and it's only where the president
lives and the freaking capitol of our country, but lets forget about the fact
that its a crime infested city that allows no legal ownership of firearms.

Bill

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
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"scbafreak via BoatKB.com" u25927@uwe wrote
You forgot about D.C. they don't allow guns in the city at all except for by
police and military. THat's exactly what OzOne is propossing right? They
have one of the highest murder rates in the country. But they don't count
because they are not really a state. Oh and it's only where the president
lives and the freaking capitol of our country, but lets forget about the fact
that its a crime infested city that allows no legal ownership of firearms.

I read the murder rate by firearms is higher in D.C. than in Baghdad...
That's what happens when only criminals have guns and law abiding people aren't
allowed to have guns.

Cheers,
Ellen