The Dana 24
 

Steve wrote:
After looking at many, many pocket cruisers, examining my needs once
again and listening to some rock solid advice given here, I've decided
the best cruiser for me is the Dana 24:

http://www.pacificseacraft.com/dana24.htm


Nice boat.
But I don't recall anyvbody here advising you to get one. Seems to me
you asked about "trailerable" boats, which the Dana 24 is not (unless
you define the term very loosely).


..... What
are the advatanges and disadvantages of the cutter rig?

Advantage: comes with a staysail already rigged.

Disadvantage: the staysail is too low & too far forward for best usage
as a storm sail. Added windage. Added complexity. Reduced efficiency
sailing to windward.

Some folks will say that the cutter rig is stronger. And they're right,
within the constraints of 1890s technology. In a modern small boat,
there is really no sound engineering reason to choose a cutter over a
sloop.



Is it smart to
use roller furlings for both sails?

A matter of taste. Personally, I would not. The big outer jib could
profitably be set on a roller furler, the smaller inner staysail is
likely to be too small to need one, and the extra rigging will get
underfoot.


What is typical water usage per
person per day?

For survival, one pint.
For non-survival, drinking only, about 3 pints (outside the tropics)
For actual living, anywhere from 2 gallons (for good campers) on up. My
wife & I use an average of about 10 gallons a day for the two of us,
we're relatively careful to conserve but not skimpy. The average
American uses about 25 gallons a day in the home (no doubt this average
is driven up by watering the lawn & washing the car, but you get the
idea).

Will the extra water tank option change the balance of
the boat?

Yes

Can I convert the water tank into a diesel tank?

Yes.
Converting it back may be a bit more of a problem.

Does anyone
here own one?


Not that I know of. However I've had several friends who have owned
them, and there's one in our marina now.

Thanks in advance for all your knowledgeable help!


You're welcome.

Steve Dooley

Are you related to Tom Dooley?

Injun Ear (formerly known as Eagle Eye)

The Dana 24
 

wrote:
Steve wrote:
After looking at many, many pocket cruisers, examining my needs once
again and listening to some rock solid advice given here, I've decided
the best cruiser for me is the Dana 24:

http://www.pacificseacraft.com/dana24.htm


Nice boat.
But I don't recall anyvbody here advising you to get one. Seems to me
you asked about "trailerable" boats, which the Dana 24 is not (unless
you define the term very loosely).

Actually I mentioned the Dana, but it certainly doesn't fit his
original parameters.



..... What
are the advatanges and disadvantages of the cutter rig?

Advantage: comes with a staysail already rigged.

Disadvantage: the staysail is too low & too far forward for best usage
as a storm sail. Added windage. Added complexity. Reduced efficiency
sailing to windward.

Some folks will say that the cutter rig is stronger. And they're right,
within the constraints of 1890s technology. In a modern small boat,
there is really no sound engineering reason to choose a cutter over a
sloop.

I always liked having a club-foot self tacking stays'l. A lot of my
early cruising was on a boat resembling a Stone Horse that had such a rig.



Is it smart to
use roller furlings for both sails?

A matter of taste. Personally, I would not. The big outer jib could
profitably be set on a roller furler, the smaller inner staysail is
likely to be too small to need one, and the extra rigging will get
underfoot.


What is typical water usage per
person per day?

For survival, one pint.
For non-survival, drinking only, about 3 pints (outside the tropics)
For actual living, anywhere from 2 gallons (for good campers) on up. My
wife & I use an average of about 10 gallons a day for the two of us,
we're relatively careful to conserve but not skimpy. The average
American uses about 25 gallons a day in the home (no doubt this average
is driven up by watering the lawn & washing the car, but you get the
idea).

Ten gal per day for two is a good estimate, but it is using a lot of
water. We use about half that, still taking daily showers. But we do
carry a lot of bottled drinks. We have a 80 gallon tank and run it
roughly half down in a week. A lot depends on the whether, water
temp, etc.



Will the extra water tank option change the balance of
the boat?

Yes

Depends on where it is.

The Dana 24
 

Steve Dooley wrote:
...

I was thinking of a multiple battery system, 3 batteries with an
isolator in between. Someone mentioned getting rid of the isolator and
hooking the batteries in a delta configuration to increase the power
output. I can't find any references on this, can someone help?


Batteries are quite simple. A small dedicated starting battery, plus
a large house bank, sized to handle at least two days' usage, the
bigger the better. Allow for cross-connecting in a crisis. Hook all
charge outputs directly to the house bank, feed the starter bat with
an Echo-Charge (this means the strap between the alternator and
starter solenoid should be broken).

Isolators are a waste of energy, combiners mean the starter bank is
overcharged.

I have no idea how a "delta configuration" would apply to batteries
(as opposed to motors or transformers).

If I run an automatic water making system should I turn it off when
discharging the head/holding tank?

maybe.

Steve Dooley (I do not even know who Tom Dooley is)

Hang down your head!

The Dana 24
 

Steve Dooley wrote in message
...


Can I put a bladder inside the extra water tank so it is
easy to
convert between diesel and water storage?


no need to. Water and diesel don't mix. Water is heavier
than diesel. Just run your water lines off the bottom of
the tank and your fuel lines from the top.

SBV

The Dana 24
 

Steve Dooley wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:35:44 -0500, Jeff wrote:
....
Batteries are quite simple. A small dedicated starting battery, plus
a large house bank, sized to handle at least two days' usage, the
bigger the better. Allow for cross-connecting in a crisis. Hook all
charge outputs directly to the house bank, feed the starter bat with
an Echo-Charge (this means the strap between the alternator and
starter solenoid should be broken).

Isolators are a waste of energy, combiners mean the starter bank is
overcharged.

I have no idea how a "delta configuration" would apply to batteries
(as opposed to motors or transformers).
If I run an automatic water making system should I turn it off when
discharging the head/holding tank?
maybe.

Steve Dooley (I do not even know who Tom Dooley is)
Hang down your head!

What is the Echo-Charge strap connected to on the alternator and
starter? It can't be the ground strap can it? What does breaking it
do? Are you talking about hooking the alternator directly to the
starter battery? I'm confused on this one.

These are two separate issues. The EchoCharge can tie in on the hot
side of the house bank, and thus is connected to all of the charge
sources. Its output goes to the starter bat as its only charge
source. This ensures that the starter bat get its appropriate
(normally trickle) charge even if the house bank is receiving a voltage.

The other issue is that most engines have a strap directly between the
alternator and the solenoid, and on to the battery switch. In my
setup (actually refer to Nigel Calder's book for this) you want the
alternator to feed the house bank, and the solenoid fed by the starter
battery. Thus, the strap must be removed.

The way that most older boats are set up, the alternator/solenoid
strap is at the "common" of the Big Red A/B switch. Current thinking
is that the starter and the house system should be separate circuits.

The Dana 24
 

Steve Dooley wrote
Can I put a bladder inside the extra water tank so it is
easy to
convert between diesel and water storage?


Scotty wrote:
no need to. Water and diesel don't mix. Water is heavier
than diesel. Just run your water lines off the bottom of
the tank and your fuel lines from the top.


That's right, the Navy does it exactly like that.

I'm not kidding, google up "compensated fuel/ballast tanks" although
most of the hits will be in regard to ecologic impact of discharging
ballast water from said tanks, you should be able to find something on
the fuel side.

signed- Eayyam A. Injun Ear (formerly known as Eagle Eye)

The Dana 24
 

wrote in message
ps.com...
Steve Dooley wrote
Can I put a bladder inside the extra water tank so it is
easy to
convert between diesel and water storage?


Scotty wrote:
no need to. Water and diesel don't mix. Water is heavier
than diesel. Just run your water lines off the bottom of
the tank and your fuel lines from the top.


That's right, the Navy does it exactly like that.

I'm not kidding, google up "compensated fuel/ballast tanks" although
most of the hits will be in regard to ecologic impact of discharging
ballast water from said tanks, you should be able to find something on
the fuel side.

signed- Eayyam A. Injun Ear (formerly known as Eagle Eye)


Yeah, but don't drink the water.

--
jlrogers±³©

The Dana 24
 

Isolators are a waste of energy, combiners mean the starter bank is
overcharged.

Somewhat agreed, depends on the charge source & duration. A combiner is
nice & simple, low voltage drop (more efficient). It doesn't
necessarily mean that one or the other bank is going to be overcharged
though.

What is the Echo-Charge strap connected to on the alternator and
starter? It can't be the ground strap can it? What does breaking it
do? Are you talking about hooking the alternator directly to the
starter battery? I'm confused on this one.

Jeff wrote:
These are two separate issues. The EchoCharge can tie in on the hot
side of the house bank, and thus is connected to all of the charge
sources. Its output goes to the starter bat as its only charge
source. This ensures that the starter bat get its appropriate
(normally trickle) charge even if the house bank is receiving a voltage.


Your alternator has an echo charger?

A combiner is generally used only on the alternator output, which is a
shourt duration charge source and not likely to seriously overcharge
the battery ...unless the voltage regulator is FU or the battery(s) are
hot. A better charge regulator, external to the alternator (with temp
compensation) is a very good upgrade.

I have only seen echo chargers on 120V chargers; a better set-up
available now is completely seperate regulation available on seperate
legs.


The other issue is that most engines have a strap directly between the
alternator and the solenoid, and on to the battery switch. In my
setup (actually refer to Nigel Calder's book for this) you want the
alternator to feed the house bank, and the solenoid fed by the starter
battery. Thus, the strap must be removed.

The way that most older boats are set up, the alternator/solenoid
strap is at the "common" of the Big Red A/B switch. Current thinking
is that the starter and the house system should be separate circuits.

Well, they should have been all along, but it's cheap and simple and it
works for weekending (most of the time).

signed- Injun Ear (formerly known as Eagle Eye)

The Dana 24
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote
You'll note that Nellen immediately mentioned Western Estates when Steve showed
up. I wonder why....


I thought everybody knew about Bobby and Steve Dooley and Western Estates. That Phil
Hendrie was sooooo funny and a genius. But, just because people have the same names on the
news groups it doesn't mean real people don't have the same names.
Why are people around here so fascinated with names? Does it really matter? Hey, pay more
attention to what people post and not who's posting it. Duh!

Cheers,
Ellen

The Dana 24
 

That should fix his sorry ass, Scot.

If he is going to Trailer, why in the hell is it necessary to increase
diesel storage?



























http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

The Dana 24
 

The Dana 24
 

Steve Dooley wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:34:30 -0500, Jeff wrote:

Steve Dooley wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:35:44 -0500, Jeff wrote:
...
Batteries are quite simple. A small dedicated starting battery, plus
a large house bank, sized to handle at least two days' usage, the
bigger the better. Allow for cross-connecting in a crisis. Hook all
charge outputs directly to the house bank, feed the starter bat with
an Echo-Charge (this means the strap between the alternator and
starter solenoid should be broken).

Isolators are a waste of energy, combiners mean the starter bank is
overcharged.

I have no idea how a "delta configuration" would apply to batteries
(as opposed to motors or transformers).
If I run an automatic water making system should I turn it off when
discharging the head/holding tank?
maybe.

Steve Dooley (I do not even know who Tom Dooley is)
Hang down your head!
What is the Echo-Charge strap connected to on the alternator and
starter? It can't be the ground strap can it? What does breaking it
do? Are you talking about hooking the alternator directly to the
starter battery? I'm confused on this one.


I went to this web site:

http://www.yandina.com/combInfo.htm

and I'm trying to follow what you have said, so questions are
interspersed.

Its a nice combiner, though as I explain elsewhere, I'm not a fan of
the concept.



These are two separate issues. The EchoCharge can tie in on the hot
side of the house bank, and thus is connected to all of the charge
sources.

Don't you mean charge "sinks" instead of sources?

No, the input of the EchoCharger can be any source on my boat - two
alternators, 3 solar panels (actually through one regulator), or
shorepower. Of course, it is also ties at the same point as the house
bank (which is both source and sink) and the primary sinks, the fridge
and the house system (lights, instruments, TV etc.).



Its output goes to the starter bat as its only charge
source. This ensures that the starter bat get its appropriate
(normally trickle) charge even if the house bank is receiving a voltage.


The output of the alternator goes to the starter battery as the only
direct connection to a battery(from the alternator) and the alternator
is connected to the "master" combiner which feeds all the subsidiary
combiners. The "master" combiner is necessary to isolate the
potentially dissimiliar battery banks when fully charged. Am I
getting this right so far?

This may be the way Yandina describes their setup, and it works for
simple systems. I don't think its the best for a larger system where
a you are running an engine for an hour or more a day to charge a
house bank.






The other issue is that most engines have a strap directly between the
alternator and the solenoid, and on to the battery switch. In my
setup (actually refer to Nigel Calder's book for this) you want the
alternator to feed the house bank, and the solenoid fed by the starter
battery. Thus, the strap must be removed.


In this case you are talking about feeding the starter battery from
the alternator through a combiner and the battery directly going to
the starter. But I thought you said otherwise in the preceding
paragraph. Help me out here.

Well, the alternator never actually "feeds the starter," its that
builders presume that the battery used to start the engine is the same
as the one that will be charged. In my setup, the EchoCharger is the
source for charging the starter battery, the vast bulk of the
alternator output goes to the house bank. While the EchoCharger can
be replaced with a combiner, that presumes that the two banks desire
similar charge profiles, which is not the case.



The way that most older boats are set up, the alternator/solenoid
strap is at the "common" of the Big Red A/B switch. Current thinking
is that the starter and the house system should be separate circuits.

I can see why and appreciate the pun. You want to keep them separate
so one failure does not go into the other system.

More than that, there may be numerous differences in the systems.