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Cat boats
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Cat boats
"Joe" wrote ... Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? It stands for *can't always tack*. You have to jibe them most of the time. The sail's too big and it's too far up in the bow. They get in irons worse than anything...... Cheers, Ellen |
Cat boats
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Joe" wrote ... Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? It stands for *can't always tack*. You have to jibe them most of the time. The sail's too big and it's too far up in the bow. They get in irons worse than anything...... Having sailed catboats most of my life, I can say you are absolutely wrong. In fact, you haven't been right on much lately, this could be more proof that you are really Neal. |
Cat boats
"Jeff" wrote Having sailed catboats most of my life, I can say you are absolutely wrong. In fact, you haven't been right on much lately, this could be more proof that you are really Neal. I don't know about that but it IS proof that you should start acting like a gentleman..... I've sailed on catboats, too. Atlantic City Cat 24. They're ok when it's light wind conditions. But, when the wind gets heavy they don't do anything but head up and get in irons. The rudder is practically on top of the water and when they heel it comes out and you round up. Once you round up and get in irons you've blown your tack. People with cat boats *wear ship* in heavy winds. It's more reliable. Cheers, Ellen |
Cat boats
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote Having sailed catboats most of my life, I can say you are absolutely wrong. In fact, you haven't been right on much lately, this could be more proof that you are really Neal. I don't know about that but it IS proof that you should start acting like a gentleman..... How so? I've sailed on catboats, too. Atlantic City Cat 24. They're ok when it's light wind conditions. But, when the wind gets heavy they don't do anything but head up and get in irons. Sound like you don't know how to sail it. The rudder is practically on top of the water and when they heel it comes out and you round up. Once you round up and get in irons you've blown your tack. Yes, that is the sign of a novice, all right. People with cat boats *wear ship* in heavy winds. It's more reliable. Are you seriously saying that people that only have one large sail, often with a large heavy boom, find it easier to gybe in heavy air than to tack? I am at a loss for words! |
Cat boats
"Joe" wrote in news:1166122839.066555.275550
@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? Because of the rigging: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catboat |
Cat boats
"Jeff" wrote Are you seriously saying that people that only have one large sail, often with a large heavy boom, find it easier to gybe in heavy air than to tack? I am at a loss for words! The boom is very long and heavy and there's another one on top of the sail. But, if you ever sailed one in heavy winds you'd know that jibing them is easy. It's easy because the boom on top called the gaff boom blows the top part of the sail well forward. The main boom is held back by the sheets. So when you wear ship you slowly tighten up on the sheet till it's almost centered but the gaff boom keeps the top of the sail downwind. When you go through the eye, no that's not right, what's the opposite of the eye? The tail of the wind? No that's not right either. Whatever, when you start to go around on the other tack the gaff boom just swings across to the other side real easy like. Then you can ease the mainsheet. If your gonna get a cat boat you'd better learn how to do this.... Cheers, Ellen |
Cat boats
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
If your gonna get a cat boat you'd better learn how to do this.... Cheers, Ellen Jeff.. You wanna borrow my mincemenat grinder?. |
Cat boats
Fuzzy Logic wrote: "Joe" wrote in news:1166122839.066555.275550 @j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? Because of the rigging: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catboat So why is the boat called a cat boat because of the rigging? Is it cat like? Someone just said Hey I'll call this a cat boat for no reason at all? Joe |
Cat boats
"Joe" wrote in news:1166129482.243207.265580
@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Fuzzy Logic wrote: "Joe" wrote in news:1166122839.066555.275550 @j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? Because of the rigging: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catboat So why is the boat called a cat boat because of the rigging? Is it cat like? Someone just said Hey I'll call this a cat boat for no reason at all? Cat-rigged boats have plenty of room to swing the cat (cat-of-nine-tails) as the mast and rigging are well forward. More cat nautical terms he http://www.yacht-volant.org/SailorTalk/seaterms10.html |
Cat boats
Joe wrote:
Fuzzy Logic wrote: "Joe" wrote in news:1166122839.066555.275550 @j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? Because of the rigging: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catboat So why is the boat called a cat boat because of the rigging? Is it cat like? Someone just said Hey I'll call this a cat boat for no reason at all? Joe To "cat about" or "cat around" was a phrase meaning to spend time aimlessly. Of course, the early catboats were work boats. I always associated it with the term cathead, which was a timber on the bow from which the cat (the tackle) was used to raise the anchor. Perhaps the rigging of a catboat resembled that of the cathead. But really, to cat was clang for vomit. |
Cat boats
"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com... Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? http://www.jsjohnston.org/~win_or_lose.html Joe So, behold the catboat. Note that it is both a hull and a rig. Note that the hull is wide and the big, gaff-rigged sail is set on a strong mast with a single forestay well forward near the stem. Note how the sail is controlled with a topping lift, lazy jacks, separate throat and peak halyards, reef points. So the catboat is basic, plain, unadorned except for necessities. The catboat is beamy, generous in girth, usually half as wide as she is long. The catboat is powerful with that big, single sail. The catboat is shallow draft, usually with a centerboard. And the catboat is deceptively simple. The experienced sailor knows that if he fails to reef when the wind gets strong, the cat may turn around and stare him in the eye. He also knows that jibing in heavy air may pull the rig out of the boat. The gaff main is not meant to be picturesque. It's to lower the center of effort, give more drive off the wind and allow more control through the peak halyard and topping lift. Yet it is a rig and a hull form that take easily to young learning sailors. We can see this from the Beetle Cats, which have been built for 75 years, and more recently by Harold Turner's Turnabout trainers beginning perhaps 45 years ago. The catboat is a native American art form. She was developed, built and sailed with great skill by ordinary men who needed her for honest work. Her origins go back at least 160 years, and perhaps more. She was one of the most versatile workboats ever devised. In the age of sail she was used extensively for all kinds of fishing activities--lobstering, swordfishing, seining, handling and scalloping. She was used in packeting and carry-away work. From southern New England to the Jersey shore, cats took out day visitors for bluefishing and other pleasures. The classic catboat has a plumb stem, high bow, and big barndoor rudder. Those cats 17 feet or more usually have a cuddy cabin with two bunks and the rudiments for overnight sailing. The cat is rarely longer than 22 to 25 feet. She was never intended for blue water work. Some of the bigger cats did go 30 or more miles offshore in the fisheries. But the cat mostly was an alongshore workboat. The catboat had also been used since early times for pleasure sailing and for racing. However, some cats built for racing a hundred years ago developed an unsavory reputation and cast a shadow over some other catboats. These racing cats had been given enormous rigs, with booms going way aft of the transom. They set jibs on a long bowsprit and some even had what we might call bloopers, shooters or whatever today. http://www.catboats.org/gallery/crocker.htm Now can you guess? -- jlrogers±³© |
Cat boats
Jeff,
That is the answer of a "LIAR!" Pure and Simple. A Cape Cod Cat has a Big Barn door rudder BUT If Nellen got the Rudder of an Atlantic City Cat out of the water; That Cat was CAPSIZED!!! The Atlantic Cat has an Internal Rudder out the bottom of the boat! So does the "Freedom" As does most Catboats of modern design. There was a very simple reason for the Darn Door Rudder, If Nellen had any "Salt" at all, the reason should be obvious. |
Cat boats
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote Are you seriously saying that people that only have one large sail, often with a large heavy boom, find it easier to gybe in heavy air than to tack? I am at a loss for words! The boom is very long and heavy and there's another one on top of the sail. But, if you ever sailed one in heavy winds you'd know that jibing them is easy. It's easy because the boom on top called the gaff boom blows the top part of the sail well forward. The main boom is held back by the sheets. So when you wear ship you slowly tighten up on the sheet till it's almost centered but the gaff boom keeps the top of the sail downwind. When you go through the eye, no that's not right, what's the opposite of the eye? The tail of the wind? No that's not right either. Whatever, when you start to go around on the other tack the gaff boom just swings across to the other side real easy like. Then you can ease the mainsheet. If your gonna get a cat boat you'd better learn how to do this.... All you're saying here is that there's a chance that you might be able to gybe in heavy air without destroying the boat. But anyone skilled enough to do that would have no trouble at all tacking. However, it is quite a lot of work hauling the doubled mainsheet, and all the while you're doing this the boat is unbalanced and trying to head up. Of course, gybing to avoid tacking is particularly stupid if you're trying to get upwind. As it turns out, many is the time I've done a "chicken gybe" by tacking rather than gybing a catboats - muck less stress on the boat and crew. And I don't recall ever getting stuck in irons. And the proper spelling is "ware ship." |
Cat boats
Huzzah, jlr! A heartfelt but accurate and fair eulogy!
jlrogers±³© wrote: "Joe" wrote in message oups.com... Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? http://www.jsjohnston.org/~win_or_lose.html Joe So, behold the catboat. Note that it is both a hull and a rig. Note that the hull is wide and the big, gaff-rigged sail is set on a strong mast with a single forestay well forward near the stem. Note how the sail is controlled with a topping lift, lazy jacks, separate throat and peak halyards, reef points. So the catboat is basic, plain, unadorned except for necessities. The catboat is beamy, generous in girth, usually half as wide as she is long. The catboat is powerful with that big, single sail. The catboat is shallow draft, usually with a centerboard. And the catboat is deceptively simple. The experienced sailor knows that if he fails to reef when the wind gets strong, the cat may turn around and stare him in the eye. He also knows that jibing in heavy air may pull the rig out of the boat. The gaff main is not meant to be picturesque. It's to lower the center of effort, give more drive off the wind and allow more control through the peak halyard and topping lift. Yet it is a rig and a hull form that take easily to young learning sailors. We can see this from the Beetle Cats, which have been built for 75 years, and more recently by Harold Turner's Turnabout trainers beginning perhaps 45 years ago. The catboat is a native American art form. She was developed, built and sailed with great skill by ordinary men who needed her for honest work. Her origins go back at least 160 years, and perhaps more. She was one of the most versatile workboats ever devised. In the age of sail she was used extensively for all kinds of fishing activities--lobstering, swordfishing, seining, handling and scalloping. She was used in packeting and carry-away work. From southern New England to the Jersey shore, cats took out day visitors for bluefishing and other pleasures. The classic catboat has a plumb stem, high bow, and big barndoor rudder. Those cats 17 feet or more usually have a cuddy cabin with two bunks and the rudiments for overnight sailing. The cat is rarely longer than 22 to 25 feet. She was never intended for blue water work. Some of the bigger cats did go 30 or more miles offshore in the fisheries. But the cat mostly was an alongshore workboat. The catboat had also been used since early times for pleasure sailing and for racing. However, some cats built for racing a hundred years ago developed an unsavory reputation and cast a shadow over some other catboats. These racing cats had been given enormous rigs, with booms going way aft of the transom. They set jibs on a long bowsprit and some even had what we might call bloopers, shooters or whatever today. http://www.catboats.org/gallery/crocker.htm Now can you guess? -- Flying Tadpole ---------------------------------- www.flyingtadpole.com |
Cat boats
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote Are you seriously saying that people that only have one large sail, often with a large heavy boom, find it easier to gybe in heavy air than to tack? I am at a loss for words! The boom is very long and heavy and there's another one on top of the sail. But, if you ever sailed one in heavy winds you'd know that jibing them is easy. It's easy because the boom on top called the gaff boom blows the top part of the sail well forward. The main boom is held back by the sheets. So when you wear ship you slowly tighten up on the sheet till it's almost centered but the gaff boom keeps the top of the sail downwind. When you go through the eye, no that's not right, what's the opposite of the eye? The tail of the wind? No that's not right either. Whatever, when you start to go around on the other tack the gaff boom just swings across to the other side real easy like. Then you can ease the mainsheet. If your gonna get a cat boat you'd better learn how to do this.... Cheers, Ellen Cripes. Give up on this one, Nellie, you clearly have no idea how excruciating this particular tirade of yours is for any reader with experience of cat boats. -- Flying Tadpole cat-yawl Lady Kate ---------------------------------- www.flyingtadpole.com |
Cat boats
"Jeff" wrote And the proper spelling is "ware ship." Nyut ah!! http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/WEARSHIP Cheers, Ellen |
Cat boats
"Jeff" wrote Of course, gybing to avoid tacking is particularly stupid if you're trying to get upwind. Duh, tell that to Christopher Columbus and everybody else on tall ships..... Cheers, Ellen |
Cat boats
"Thom Stewart" wrote A Cape Cod Cat has a Big Barn door rudder BUT If Nellen got the Rudder of an Atlantic City Cat out of the water; That Cat was CAPSIZED!!! It does have a big heavy long rudder that's hung off the transom. But, it's shallow. Only about two feet. It comes out of the water easy. Especially when heeled way over because the hull is wide wide. When it's heeled way over the rudder comes out. It's called leverage, I think. The Atlantic Cat has an Internal Rudder out the bottom of the boat! So does the "Freedom" As does most Catboats of modern design. Internal rudder???? Maybe you mean a centerboard? Catboats, traditional catboats, have centerboards not fixed keels. Show up at the Catboat Rendezvous with a Nonsuch and they'll laugh at you. There was a very simple reason for the Darn Door Rudder, If Ellen had any "Salt" at all, the reason should be obvious. It's because of the shallow draft of the hull when the centerboard is raised up. Duh! You can't make it deep because it will go aground. So you make it long..... Cheers, Ellen |
Cat boats
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote And the proper spelling is "ware ship." Nyut ah!! http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/WEARSHIP More proof its Neal in drag. He's using a lubber's dictionary for nautical terms. From "The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor," Darcy Lever, 1819: To Ware ... To turn the ship from the wind. From "The Seaman's Friend," Richard Henry Dana, Jr., 1879 Wear (see Ware.) Ware, or Wear. To turn the ship around ... carrying the stern around by the wind. Also, in the 1802 edition of Bowditch the primary spelling is listed as "To Veer Ship." |
Cat boats
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote Of course, gybing to avoid tacking is particularly stupid if you're trying to get upwind. Duh, tell that to Christopher Columbus and everybody else on tall ships..... So now you're telling us that handling a Catboat is the same as handling a Square Rigged Tall Ship. Yes, truly you're a lubber. |
Cat boats
"Jeff" wrote in message . .. And the proper spelling is "ware ship." |
Cat boats
"Jeff" wrote in message . .. snipped And the proper spelling is "ware ship." Not if you are on this side of the Atlantic... |
Cat boats
"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message reenews.net... "Jeff" wrote Of course, gybing to avoid tacking is particularly stupid if you're trying to get upwind. Duh, tell that to Christopher Columbus and everybody else on tall ships..... Cheers, Ellen No, not everybody. Read Alan Villiers 'The set of the Sails' about how the captain of the four masted 'Lawhill' tacked away from a leeshore at the mouth of the Gironde river with a small crew of young boys while other captains were getting tugs to tow them as much as 50 miles offshore before setting sail. Also his book 'The voyage of the Joseph Conrad' . He tacked the Joseph Conrad for a week just to make a few miles in a fairly narrow channel. She ended up in Mystic Seaport. don't know if she is still there. Tall ships could be tacked if they had a good crew and a captain who had the guts to do it. Bear away a bit, get up some speed and go for it! |
Cat boats
"Joe" wrote ...
Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? jlrogers±³© wrote: So, behold the catboat. ... (snip for brevity)... The classic catboat has a plumb stem, high bow, and big barndoor rudder. Those cats 17 feet or more usually have a cuddy cabin with two bunks and the rudiments for overnight sailing. The cat is rarely longer than 22 to 25 feet. She was never intended for blue water work. Some of the bigger cats did go 30 or more miles offshore in the fisheries. But the cat mostly was an alongshore workboat. Excellent post, bravo! The only thing I would add is that the huge gaff mains of *working* catboats, not racing ones, also overhung the transom by a lot in many cases.... they often had "summer rigs" meant for light air, and it was common among working boats of many types to have 4 reefs in their working mainsails. But it doesn't naswer the question, why the name? Here's the answer: because there was already a dog boat common to New England back in the early days. However it was not as efficient and effective a type as the catboat, and died out. signed- Injun Ear (formerly known as Eagle Eye) |
Cat boats
"Jeff" wrote in message
Ellen MacArthur wrote: "Joe" wrote ... Why do they call "cat boats" cat boats? It stands for *can't always tack*. You have to jibe them most of the time. The sail's too big and it's too far up in the bow. They get in irons worse than anything...... Having sailed catboats most of my life, I can say you are absolutely wrong. In fact, you haven't been right on much lately, this could be more proof that you are really Neal. I'm here. Please don't cornfuse this obvious imposter with me. Respectfully, Capt. Neal |
Cat boats
"katy" wrote in message
Ellen MacArthur wrote: If your gonna get a cat boat you'd better learn how to do this.... Cheers, Ellen Jeff.. You wanna borrow my mincemenat grinder?. Are you making a pie? Respectfully, Capt. Neal |
Cat boats
wrote Here's the answer: because there was already a dog boat common to New England back in the early days. However it was not as efficient and effective a type as the catboat, and died out. Hmmmmm. I never knew they had MacGregors back then..... Cheers, Ellen |
Cat boats
Neal,
A little bit of Cat Boat history. They were designed as shallow draft vessels. As working boats for Lobstermen, Oystermen, Clammers, or for any independent Watermen. They were shallow draft, beamy boats so that they could work shallow sand bars and when they had something to sell, they could sail them right up on the beach and peddle their product right from their Boat. That was why the Big Barn door Rudders and Center Board Keels and sand bags. When you had a hull load of clams you could bump the sand overboard and stack the cargo on the windward (High) side and sail pretty flat, When there was no cargo you could fill the bags with sand (Cheap) and sail flat. About being "In Irons" they were good at that. As a work boat you could sail up to a Lobster Buoy, grab the pot line and the well behaved "Cat Boat' would go nose up to the Wind and just wait for you. When you were ready to go you just had to hold the Boom over into the wind and she'd drop off into and easy reach to the next Pot. Joe! I asked my Skipper ONCE how come they were called "Cat Boats" and he replied;" How the hell do I know. probably because the rigging on the Gaff looked like a " Cat-O-Nine tail, don't ask me dumb questions!" I never asked again but to this day I don't know why the name. |
Cat boats
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
... Neal, A little bit of Cat Boat history. They were designed as shallow draft vessels. As working boats for Lobstermen, Oystermen, Clammers, or for any independent Watermen. They were shallow draft, beamy boats so that they could work shallow sand bars and when they had something to sell, they could sail them right up on the beach and peddle their product right from their Boat. That was why the Big Barn door Rudders and Center Board Keels and sand bags. When you had a hull load of clams you could bump the sand overboard and stack the cargo on the windward (High) side and sail pretty flat, When there was no cargo you could fill the bags with sand (Cheap) and sail flat. About being "In Irons" they were good at that. As a work boat you could sail up to a Lobster Buoy, grab the pot line and the well behaved "Cat Boat' would go nose up to the Wind and just wait for you. When you were ready to go you just had to hold the Boom over into the wind and she'd drop off into and easy reach to the next Pot. Joe! I asked my Skipper ONCE how come they were called "Cat Boats" and he replied;" How the hell do I know. probably because the rigging on the Gaff looked like a " Cat-O-Nine tail, don't ask me dumb questions!" I never asked again but to this day I don't know why the name. It's not Nelly. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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