Milton Friedman RIP
 

Milton Friedman has died at the age of 94. He won the Nobel Prize in
Economics in 1976 and was a strong advocate of Capitalism and limited
government.

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Too bad Bush with his Harvard MBA never read his books.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gilligan" wrote in message
. ..
Milton Friedman has died at the age of 94. He won the Nobel Prize in
Economics in 1976 and was a strong advocate of Capitalism and limited
government.

Milton Friedman RIP
 

"Gilligan" wrote in message
. ..
Milton Friedman has died at the age of 94. He won the Nobel Prize in
Economics in 1976 and was a strong advocate of Capitalism and limited
government.

Friedman was a good man. His brand of economic sensibility is missing in
most circles today.

Max

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Milton Friedman has died at the age of 94. He won the Nobel Prize in
Economics in 1976 and was a strong advocate of Capitalism and limited
government.


Actually he was a strong advocate of de-politicized monetary
policy.

Maxprop wrote:
Friedman was a good man. His brand of economic sensibility is missing in
most circles today.


And his economic principles are totally missing from the
practices of those who most loudly advocate his wisdom.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

DSK wrote:
Maxprop wrote:

Friedman was a good man. His brand of economic sensibility is missing
in most circles today.

And his economic principles are totally missing from the practices of
those who most loudly advocate his wisdom.

You mean you're supposed to walk the walk, and not just talk the talk?

Man, you're harsh. I bet you believe in accountability too. Why are you
such a hard ass when we know the debt fairy is coming along any day now?

//Walk

Milton Friedman RIP
 

"Walt" wrote in


the debt fairy is coming along any day now?



Why is borrowing money at historically low interest rates so bad?

Especially if followed by a growth in the money supply that exceeds the
increase in the GNP?

Milton Friedman RIP
 

"Walt" wrote
the debt fairy is coming along any day now?


The bad news, he's engaged to the foreign-policy fairy.


Gilligan wrote:
Why is borrowing money at historically low interest rates so bad?


It wouldn't be so bad, if the money were spent on something
constructive that offered future returns.


Especially if followed by a growth in the money supply that exceeds the
increase in the GNP?


??? Increasing the gov't debt has very little to do with
increasing the money supply. And the increases in GNP have
rather paltry, lately. And this is after starting a war,
traditionally a great way to goose a national economy; and
eliminating all those pesky environmental regulations, which
should also give a boost. What's up with that?

Besides, everybody knows that those darn libby-rull
Democrats are the ones who don't know beans about the
economy. Now that they're in charge, just LOOK at the deficit!

This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to
say, for 1 ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what
economic theory did Friedman produce? 2 points if you can
explain it.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

DSK wrote:
"Walt" wrote

the debt fairy is coming along any day now?

The bad news, he's engaged to the foreign-policy fairy.

Obviously our problems in Iraq are a direct result of some of you not
clapping vigorously enough.

This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did
Friedman produce?

Monetarism.

2 points if you can explain it.

Hah. A trick question. What color is the wind?


//Walt

Milton Friedman RIP
 

This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did
Friedman produce?


Walt wrote:
Monetarism.


Well, you're in the right ballpark. Friedman was a
monetarist and his thoeries revitalized monetarism
(discredited for a long time even after the obvious hint of
the Weimar Republic's fiscal undoing). He's been called a
Neo-Monetarist. But there is a specifc term (also used in
sailing) that is the key to his main monetarist theory, in
fact this is what makes the whole thing work.



2 points if you can explain it.

Hah. A trick question. What color is the wind?


*I* can explain it, and I'm not all that smart. C'mon do we
have to wait for Gilligan to put donw his coffee and join in?

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

DSK wrote:

Well, you're in the right ballpark. Friedman was a monetarist and his
thoeries revitalized monetarism ... But there is a specifc term (also used in
sailing) that is the key to his main monetarist theory, in fact this is
what makes the whole thing work.


Sailing term? You mean "money"?

You've been hanging around the keelboat racers too much, Doug.


//Walt
// "They're gaining on us, Skipper. What do we do?"
// "Not to worry. Stand by to deploy more money."

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Walt wrote:
Sailing term? You mean "money"?

You've been hanging around the keelboat racers too much, Doug.


No, it doesn't even start with the same letter.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

DSK wrote:
Walt wrote:

Sailing term? You mean "money"?

You've been hanging around the keelboat racers too much, Doug.

No, it doesn't even start with the same letter.

Huh. That's too bad, since I was going to guess "Mizzen Mast" next.

As in "I'm going to assault the International Monetary Fund and their
ridiculous fixed exchange rates by belaboring them about the head with
the Mizzen Mast."

But I guess that would be wrong, and I wouldn't win that glass of root
beer with the vanilla ice cream that you promised.

I give up. You might say I'm sunk.

//Walt

Milton Friedman RIP
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
"Walt" wrote
the debt fairy is coming along any day now?


The bad news, he's engaged to the foreign-policy fairy.


Gilligan wrote:
Why is borrowing money at historically low interest rates so bad?


It wouldn't be so bad, if the money were spent on something constructive
that offered future returns.


Especially if followed by a growth in the money supply that exceeds the
increase in the GNP?


??? Increasing the gov't debt has very little to do with increasing the
money supply. And the increases in GNP have rather paltry, lately. And
this is after starting a war, traditionally a great way to goose a
national economy; and eliminating all those pesky environmental
regulations, which should also give a boost. What's up with that?

Pay the debt with inflated currency.



Besides, everybody knows that those darn libby-rull Democrats are the ones
who don't know beans about the economy. Now that they're in charge, just
LOOK at the deficit!

This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did Friedman
produce? 2 points if you can explain it.

I don't think he produced any new economic theory but rather contributed
deeper understanding and refinement to old ones.



DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Dave wrote:

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:17:46 -0500, DSK said:

Well, you're in the right ballpark. Friedman was a
monetarist and his thoeries revitalized monetarism
(discredited for a long time even after the obvious hint of
the Weimar Republic's fiscal undoing). He's been called a
Neo-Monetarist. But there is a specifc term (also used in
sailing) that is the key to his main monetarist theory, in
fact this is what makes the whole thing work.


Dunno what magic words you have in mind, but there's a rather nice summary
on the Op Ed page of today's Journal.

The WSJ? Yeah, well, whatever floats your boat...

//Walt

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Gilligan wrote:
Pay the debt with inflated currency.


When the debt is one of the drivers of inflation, how is
inflation going to oustrip debt? Isn't this like putting the
cart before the horse?





This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did Friedman
produce? 2 points if you can explain it.



I don't think he produced any new economic theory but rather contributed
deeper understanding and refinement to old ones.


AFAIK he definitely invented something new, but five or six
minutes of googling has failed to produce a reference to it,
unless you already know the specific term.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

.... But there is a specifc term (also used in
sailing) that is the key to his main monetarist theory, in
fact this is what makes the whole thing work.


Dave wrote:
Dunno what magic words you have in mind, but there's a rather nice summary
on the Op Ed page of today's Journal.

It's just one word.

I read some of the Wall St Journal's stuff on Dr. Friedman,
but like most people who wax eloquent about the political
import of his work, they get the facts of his actual work
pretty much backwards.

Question- if Milton Friedman the world famous economist was
so much in favor of school vouchers, why was he rarely
invited to speak on the subject at political functions?

Answer: because his definition of what a voucher was, and
the importance of universal education, is anathema to those
who make "school vouchers" one of the chief causes.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

he was no Ross Perot.

Milton Friedman RIP
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Gilligan wrote:
Pay the debt with inflated currency.


When the debt is one of the drivers of inflation, how is inflation going
to oustrip debt? Isn't this like putting the cart before the horse?


Germany in the 1920's. Simply turn on the printing presses and devalue the
currency.






This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did Friedman
produce? 2 points if you can explain it.



I don't think he produced any new economic theory but rather contributed
deeper understanding and refinement to old ones.


AFAIK he definitely invented something new, but five or six minutes of
googling has failed to produce a reference to it, unless you already know
the specific term.


Don't you know it?

He didn't come up with any new theories. He refined old ones. Have you ever
read "Human Action" by Ludwig von Mises? He was a founder of the Austrian
school of economics, a predecessor of the Chicago school which laid a good
deal of the ground work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises






DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Pay the debt with inflated currency.


When the debt is one of the drivers of inflation, how is inflation going
to oustrip debt? Isn't this like putting the cart before the horse?


Gilligan wrote:
Germany in the 1920's. Simply turn on the printing presses and devalue the
currency.


Good example. Did it work out in the end?


This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did Friedman
produce? 2 points if you can explain it.

Gilligan wrote:
I don't think he produced any new economic theory but rather contributed
deeper understanding and refinement to old ones.


DSK wrote:
AFAIK he definitely invented something new, but five or six minutes of
googling has failed to produce a reference to it, unless you already know
the specific term.



Gilligan wrote:
Don't you know it?


Yes: velocity

Friedman's work was key in measuring various inputs to the
money supply, quantifying the trend in velocity, and
stabilizing inflation.



He didn't come up with any new theories. He refined old ones.

Actually, I thought he did, but with further research (more
than I really have time for today) I'm beginning to think
you're right.


... Have you ever
read "Human Action" by Ludwig von Mises?

No have you?

.... He was a founder of the Austrian
school of economics, a predecessor of the Chicago school which laid a good
deal of the ground work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises


Never heard of the man before now. Looks like pretty
interesting stuff, thanks for the reference.


Just to make sure, I went back to my old textbook, which
does indeed say that Milton Friedman invented the concept of
velocity, as applied to quantifying the money supply.
However, after digging around quite a lot (interesting
reading but I have a lot of other things that I should be
doing instead right now), I don't think he did invent the
concept of velocity.

http://www.unc.edu/depts/econ/byrns_...les/fisher.htm

In any event, Friedman was the first to reliably use numbers
from the real world to show how the money supply related to
changes in GNP, employment, and inflation, which is
something that economists had pretty much given up on.

Dr. Friedman's work... and economic history since... has
been the basis of relatively stable economic order;
ironically it also shows the desirability of disconnecting
monetary policy from political influence, which is
something else the neo-conservatives ignore when trumpeting
Friedman.

OK, back to real work, dammit!

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Pay the debt with inflated currency.


When the debt is one of the drivers of inflation, how is inflation going
to oustrip debt? Isn't this like putting the cart before the horse?


Gilligan wrote:
Germany in the 1920's. Simply turn on the printing presses and devalue
the currency.


Good example. Did it work out in the end?


This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did
Friedman produce? 2 points if you can explain it.

Gilligan wrote:
I don't think he produced any new economic theory but rather contributed
deeper understanding and refinement to old ones.


DSK wrote:
AFAIK he definitely invented something new, but five or six minutes of
googling has failed to produce a reference to it, unless you already know
the specific term.



Gilligan wrote:
Don't you know it?


Yes: velocity

Friedman's work was key in measuring various inputs to the money supply,
quantifying the trend in velocity, and stabilizing inflation.

http://www.mises.org/story/918





He didn't come up with any new theories. He refined old ones.

Actually, I thought he did, but with further research (more than I really
have time for today) I'm beginning to think you're right.


... Have you ever read "Human Action" by Ludwig von Mises?

No have you?

Yes



.... He was a founder of the Austrian school of economics, a predecessor
of the Chicago school which laid a good deal of the ground work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises


Never heard of the man before now. Looks like pretty interesting stuff,
thanks for the reference.


Just to make sure, I went back to my old textbook, which does indeed say
that Milton Friedman invented the concept of velocity, as applied to
quantifying the money supply. However, after digging around quite a lot
(interesting reading but I have a lot of other things that I should be
doing instead right now), I don't think he did invent the concept of
velocity.

http://www.unc.edu/depts/econ/byrns_...les/fisher.htm

In any event, Friedman was the first to reliably use numbers from the real
world to show how the money supply related to changes in GNP, employment,
and inflation, which is something that economists had pretty much given up
on.

Dr. Friedman's work... and economic history since... has been the basis of
relatively stable economic order; ironically it also shows the
desirability of disconnecting monetary policy from political influence,
which is something else the neo-conservatives ignore when trumpeting
Friedman.

OK, back to real work, dammit!

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...

This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did Friedman
produce? 2 points if you can explain it.


Do I get three points?

Milton Friedman RIP
 

This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did Friedman
produce? 2 points if you can explain it.


Gilligan wrote:
Do I get three points?


You didn't explain it!

Anyway, my license to award points has just been revoked.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did
Friedman produce? 2 points if you can explain it.


Gilligan wrote:
Do I get three points?

You didn't explain it!

Anyway, my license to award points has just been revoked.

DSK


I was robbed!

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Gilligan wrote:
I was robbed!


Sorry you feel that way. Maybe Bart will award you some
points out of pity.

But you still didn't explain the concept of velocity with
regard to the money supply.

Here's another chance... what's the difference between
"velocity" as a quantifier and any delta in aggregate demand?

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Gilligan wrote:
I was robbed!

Sorry you feel that way. Maybe Bart will award you some points out of
pity.

But you still didn't explain the concept of velocity with regard to the
money supply.

Here's another chance... what's the difference between "velocity" as a
quantifier and any delta in aggregate demand?


Velocity is how many times a dollar is turned over in a given period of
time.

If aggregate demand is the average price times the total number of goods
purchased then they are equal if the aggregate demand is multiplied by the
inverse of the total amount of money in circulation.

Milton Friedman RIP
 

When I was in graduate school in Economics in 1971 we had to take an 8 hour
qualifying exam. The last question was: Compare and contrast the monetary
models of Friedman, Galbraith, and Patinkin. We had 1 hour to answer the
question.

After a moment to reflect, all us were writing. Five minutes into the
session, one student got up, turned in his paper and walked out, Loser, we
thought. Fifty-five minutes later we were still scribbling furiously when
the gong sounded. The only "A"? You guessed it, the alleged Loser.
His answer?

Friedman: money matters
Galbraith: money doesn't matter
Patinkin: Neither of those guys matter, only wealth matters.

--
jlrogers±³©
"Gilligan" wrote in message
. ..

"DSK" wrote in message
...
This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for 1
ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did
Friedman produce? 2 points if you can explain it.


Gilligan wrote:
Do I get three points?

You didn't explain it!

Anyway, my license to award points has just been revoked.

DSK


I was robbed!

Milton Friedman RIP
 

I can see why s/he got an A... great answer!

Where did you go to school?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
. net...
When I was in graduate school in Economics in 1971 we had to take an 8
hour qualifying exam. The last question was: Compare and contrast the
monetary models of Friedman, Galbraith, and Patinkin. We had 1 hour to
answer the question.

After a moment to reflect, all us were writing. Five minutes into the
session, one student got up, turned in his paper and walked out, Loser,
we thought. Fifty-five minutes later we were still scribbling furiously
when the gong sounded. The only "A"? You guessed it, the alleged Loser.
His answer?

Friedman: money matters
Galbraith: money doesn't matter
Patinkin: Neither of those guys matter, only wealth matters.

--
jlrogers±³©
"Gilligan" wrote in message
. ..

"DSK" wrote in message
...
This thread got side tracked somehow. What I started out to say, for
1 ASA/economist point, can anybody answer what economic theory did
Friedman produce? 2 points if you can explain it.


Gilligan wrote:
Do I get three points?

You didn't explain it!

Anyway, my license to award points has just been revoked.

DSK


I was robbed!

Milton Friedman RIP
 

jlrogers±³© wrote:

When I was in graduate school in Economics in 1971 we had to take an 8 hour
qualifying exam. The last question was: Compare and contrast the monetary
models of Friedman, Galbraith, and Patinkin. We had 1 hour to answer the
question.

After a moment to reflect, all us were writing. Five minutes into the
session, one student got up, turned in his paper and walked out, Loser, we
thought. Fifty-five minutes later we were still scribbling furiously when
the gong sounded. The only "A"? You guessed it, the alleged Loser.
His answer?

Friedman: money matters
Galbraith: money doesn't matter
Patinkin: Neither of those guys matter, only wealth matters.


Maybe you meant Keynes, not Galbraith?

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Keynes would be: Government should stay out of it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
...
jlrogers±³© wrote:

When I was in graduate school in Economics in 1971 we had to take an 8
hour qualifying exam. The last question was: Compare and contrast the
monetary models of Friedman, Galbraith, and Patinkin. We had 1 hour to
answer the question.

After a moment to reflect, all us were writing. Five minutes into the
session, one student got up, turned in his paper and walked out, Loser,
we thought. Fifty-five minutes later we were still scribbling furiously
when the gong sounded. The only "A"? You guessed it, the alleged Loser.
His answer?

Friedman: money matters
Galbraith: money doesn't matter
Patinkin: Neither of those guys matter, only wealth matters.


Maybe you meant Keynes, not Galbraith?

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Capt. JG wrote:
Keynes would be: Government should stay out of it.


Well, Keynes' books are the world's most certain cure for
insomnia, so I can't say for sure... but I've always
understood Keynes' main contribution to be the theory that
the gov't is not like an ordinary business and should not
have the same debt constraints. He is the one (or one of the
group) that convinced FDR to borrow tremendous amounts of
money for the U.S. gov't to try & spend it's way out of the
Depression.

On the more serious side, Keynes is the economist who used
actual real math (calculus even) and showed the numbers to
means something in the real world. Previous economists were
always rather vague ("did I say 3 hundred, oops I meant 3
million") and were quite content if their "equations" even
got positive & negative deltas on the right side.

People often pit Keynes and Galbraith against Friedman, with
some political motive (and later in his career, he played
right into this himself, sadly), but actually the three
don't contradict each other in absolute terms.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Actually, I should have said that Keynes said gov't shouldn't stay out of
it. Not sure why my brain stopped working momentarily. :-) He advocated
intervention through monetary policy.

So, to do a one-liner, it would be Keynes: Money matters if the government
uses it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
Keynes would be: Government should stay out of it.


Well, Keynes' books are the world's most certain cure for insomnia, so I
can't say for sure... but I've always understood Keynes' main contribution
to be the theory that the gov't is not like an ordinary business and
should not have the same debt constraints. He is the one (or one of the
group) that convinced FDR to borrow tremendous amounts of money for the
U.S. gov't to try & spend it's way out of the Depression.

On the more serious side, Keynes is the economist who used actual real
math (calculus even) and showed the numbers to means something in the real
world. Previous economists were always rather vague ("did I say 3 hundred,
oops I meant 3 million") and were quite content if their "equations" even
got positive & negative deltas on the right side.

People often pit Keynes and Galbraith against Friedman, with some
political motive (and later in his career, he played right into this
himself, sadly), but actually the three don't contradict each other in
absolute terms.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

Memory, or rather, the lack thereof strikes again. It was Keynes, not
Galbraith. I called Ed DeSpain, who wrote the answer. Here is his actual
answer:

Friedman: money matters, save it.
Keynes: money doesn't matter, spend it
Patinkin: Neither of those guys matter, only wealth matters.

I went to Southern Methodist.


--
jlrogers±³©
"DSK" wrote in message
...
jlrogers±³© wrote:

When I was in graduate school in Economics in 1971 we had to take an 8
hour qualifying exam. The last question was: Compare and contrast the
monetary models of Friedman, Galbraith, and Patinkin. We had 1 hour to
answer the question.

After a moment to reflect, all us were writing. Five minutes into the
session, one student got up, turned in his paper and walked out, Loser,
we thought. Fifty-five minutes later we were still scribbling furiously
when the gong sounded. The only "A"? You guessed it, the alleged Loser.
His answer?

Friedman: money matters
Galbraith: money doesn't matter
Patinkin: Neither of those guys matter, only wealth matters.


Maybe you meant Keynes, not Galbraith?

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

jlrogers±³© wrote:

Memory, or rather, the lack thereof strikes again. It was Keynes, not
Galbraith. I called Ed DeSpain, who wrote the answer. Here is his actual
answer:

Friedman: money matters, save it.
Keynes: money doesn't matter, spend it
Patinkin: Neither of those guys matter, only wealth matters.


I'm not so familiar with Patinkin, but that sounds like a
good answer. How come you didn't get an A yourself?
Economics is easy & fun... it's the original fuzzy math.

I have saved a number of my economics papers, on subjects
like the civic influence of Japanese castles during the
Tokugawa Shogunate, and (more on topic) the influence of
technology on sailing ship design & shipping during the era
of sail power.


I went to Southern Methodist.


Probably the one in Texas, not the one in South Carolina?
FWIW I went to a number of institutions of learning, but the
only one that is forced to claim me is N.C. State.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

What years? Some of buddies went their for graduate school in the early
70's.

--
jlrogers±³©
"DSK" wrote in message
...
jlrogers±³© wrote:

Memory, or rather, the lack thereof strikes again. It was Keynes, not
Galbraith. I called Ed DeSpain, who wrote the answer. Here is his
actual answer:

Friedman: money matters, save it.
Keynes: money doesn't matter, spend it
Patinkin: Neither of those guys matter, only wealth matters.


I'm not so familiar with Patinkin, but that sounds like a good answer. How
come you didn't get an A yourself? Economics is easy & fun... it's the
original fuzzy math.

I have saved a number of my economics papers, on subjects like the civic
influence of Japanese castles during the Tokugawa Shogunate, and (more on
topic) the influence of technology on sailing ship design & shipping
during the era of sail power.


I went to Southern Methodist.


Probably the one in Texas, not the one in South Carolina?
FWIW I went to a number of institutions of learning, but the only one that
is forced to claim me is N.C. State.

DSK

Milton Friedman RIP
 

jlrogers±³© wrote:

What years?

Around 1990. I was an older student.


Some of buddies went their for graduate school in the early
70's.


Old school. Did they work for NASA?

DSK