Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
I work with a teacher who was a student and on the campus when the shooting
started. I've seen a pic of him hiding behind a Volkswagen during the
attack. Every year he does a seminar on "what it was like."
But of course, these are kids who don't believe the moon landings were
real, or genocide, or WWII for that matter. They think nothing happened
before they were born.
Amazing, really.
Scout

Not really. About 65% of those same kids, when polled, have no idea who
Cheney, Rumsfeld, or Hillary Clinton are, either. The fact that all three
are household words and have been for years notwithstanding, kids today are
too wrapped up in video games and TV shows like Survivor and American Idol
to be concerned with reality, or history. And Jay Leno and Dave Letterman
are their sole source of political and historical information.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...

What freedom...the one that has you looking over your
shoulder when
walking at night...or the one that has you looking
around
when a car
backfires?

I don't do any of those things.
I don't know anybody that does.
Do you do those things.
Perhaps Jon does.

The rest of the world gets a rather distorted,
over-dramatized view of
America's gun issues. Oz must think we lurk in shadows,
holding our defense
weapons in front of our bodies, constantly wary of
attackers. That only
happens in paintball arcades, to the best of my knowledge.

I used to think Ozzy was more intelligent than that.

He's a knee-jerk liberal--believes what he chooses rather than the truth.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

Maxprop wrote:
"Scotty" wrote in message
...

So? I was around when Kent State happened. I'm not afraid
of college campuses.

SV


You should be. The way colleges charge for credit hours these days is
highway robbery. g

Max


That's for sure...Mr Sails pciked up 6 credit hours this past
simmer...at the post grad level....wow....

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 03:47:21 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

The rest of the world gets a rather distorted, over-dramatized view of
America's gun issues. Oz must think we lurk in shadows, holding our
defense
weapons in front of our bodies, constantly wary of attackers. That only
happens in paintball arcades, to the best of my knowledge.

Max


Max, I think you need to come over here and see just how different our
lives are.

I doubt that you would find a single hotel concierge who would tell
you that it wasn't safe to walk anywhere in our city at night..even
our Hyde Park or Botanical Gardens.

I have been asked a number of times as I walked out of US hotels where
I was going and had suggestions about which areas I should not venture
into.

Come over...you will be enlightened

Been there, done that. And several hotel employees gave us caveats as to
where not to venture after dark. Were they lying?

You are correct in that our culture and yours are different in many
respects. I don't have the answers as to why this is the case, but I do
know that violence is an integral part of US society. Movies, TV, and video
games glorify violence and guns. And criminals are often heros in films and
literature. Somehow I tend to believe that most progressive societies
gravitate toward more and more violence with time, and I suspect that the
world, in general, including Australia, will do so as well.

My point is, and always has been, that removing guns is akin to treating the
pain when one has a 6" gash in the flesh. A more intelligent approach is to
treat the underlying injury, and the pain will subsequently subside.
Removing guns here will not stem the violence--only major cultural changes
will accomplish that.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 03:29:10 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

Oz,
Come to Atlantic City.

It's on my list!

Why??

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:56:24 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 03:29:10 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

Oz,
Come to Atlantic City.

It's on my list!

Let me know when you do, I'll be sailing nearby!
Scout


Won't be happening for at least 12 months.
Looks like Whistler and Squaw this winter.

Don't you ski Europe? I've spent a week at different European
resorts/cities the past four years and found the experience superior to our
own resorts in terms of culture, dining, nightlife, and tourism. Our
western resorts have skiing comparable to much of the European resorts, and
generally superior snow over the span of an average winter.

Squaw Valley is rife with history, including the 1960 Olympics. Should be
fun.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:19:30 -0500, katy
scribbled thusly:

OzOne wrote:
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 03:29:10 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

Oz,
Come to Atlantic City.


It's on my list!


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Cross it off...it's a dive...

Gotta see it just once..

Have you seen Chicago? Far superior in all respect, except casinos.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Scotty" wrote in message
...

OzOne made stuff up and wrote it down.......

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:20:28 -0500, "Scotty"



scribbled thusly:

at the cost of freedom. Not a good trade IMO.

What freedom...the one that has you looking over your

shoulder when

walking at night...or the one that has you looking around

when a car

backfires?

I don't do any of those things.
I don't know anybody that does.
Do you do those things.
Perhaps Jon does.


The rest of the world gets a rather distorted, over-dramatized view of
America's gun issues. Oz must think we lurk in shadows, holding our
defense weapons in front of our bodies, constantly wary of attackers.
That only happens in paintball arcades, to the best of my knowledge.

Max
They base their opinions of us on what Hollywood presents...

Ya gotta love Hollywood. In films a thug can fire well over 5000 rounds
from a submachine gun before having to reload. And even old six-shooters
carry twenty or thirty rounds.

Hollywood = fantasy.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Maxprop" wrote
(deleted it all)


I keep deleting this whole stupid topic. But it keeps coming back. I wish I never started it....
It was supposed to be a joke. That retarded down under guy took it for real. Duh. What's his
problem? Somebody get out the big butterfly net and put him back in the home please....


Cheers,
Ellen

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:12:51 -0500, katy
scribbled thusly:

They base their opinions of us on what Hollywood presents...

Nope, I base my opinions on my time in the US.

Really?? How many times were you mugged here? Or had your rental car
stolen? Or had a knife held to your throat while you handed over your
wallet?

You watch to much TV and too many movies, Oz.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Having lived in big cities growing up, yes, I've looked over my shoulder
when a car backfires, except on occaision when it was actually gunfire.
Then, I ran like hell.

Sorry, Jon. I wasn't aware you lived in the Tenderloin.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:15:24 -0500, katy
scribbled thusly:

Capt. JG wrote:
Having lived in big cities growing up, yes, I've looked over my shoulder
when a car backfires, except on occaision when it was actually gunfire.
Then, I ran like hell.

That was almost 40 years ago....and hasn't been repeated...

Katy, when I was in the US last Xmas, there was a multiple shooting on
the next corner down from my hotel.
We heard the shots and minutes later.
Police choppers flying around for a couple of hours while they
searched for the culprits in the parkland behind the hotel.

Well, that's what you get for taking a hotel in East LA.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Bart" .@. wrote in message ...

What exactly is wrong about being a Christian these days?

Being associated with the likes of Bush.

Do you despise major league baseball because Bush was once a team owner?

Yes, but I despised mlb before Bush.

Do you refuse to eat beef because he's a cattle rancher?

No, but I think about it.

Your "reasoning" for incrimination by association makes no sense.

Keep criticising us Oz... we need a reality check.

We have plenty of criticism from within our borders. We don't need to
hear an Aussie's vitriol. He's neither a patriot nor a citizen. His
criticism smacks of anti-Americanism rather than constructive verbiage.

Well, I'm an American it doesn't bother me.

Your a liberal, Jon. You detest America, just like Ozzy. In the
secular-progressive vernacular, the USA is the worst nation on the planet,
guilty of vile acts of international terror and violence, bereft of
decency, a worthless shell of a country led by despots and fascist dictators
who embrace corrupt foreign policies.

Frankly I think the USA, while far from flawless, is among the most moral
and decent nations in history. That's where you and I diverge in opinion.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Bart" wrote in message
ups.com...

Maxprop wrote:
We have plenty of criticism from within our borders. We don't need to
hear
an Aussie's vitriol. He's neither a patriot nor a citizen. His
criticism
smacks of anti-Americanism rather than constructive verbiage.

Max

You said it Max. Oz's snipes come off as Anti American,
because he is.

I find it amusing that he still prefers to vacation here. At least Mooron
had the conviction of his anti-American dogma, refusing to cross the border
into our country again.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

Maxprop wrote:
OzOne wrote in message ...

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 03:47:21 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


The rest of the world gets a rather distorted, over-dramatized view of
America's gun issues. Oz must think we lurk in shadows, holding our
defense
weapons in front of our bodies, constantly wary of attackers. That only
happens in paintball arcades, to the best of my knowledge.

Max


Max, I think you need to come over here and see just how different our
lives are.

I doubt that you would find a single hotel concierge who would tell
you that it wasn't safe to walk anywhere in our city at night..even
our Hyde Park or Botanical Gardens.

I have been asked a number of times as I walked out of US hotels where
I was going and had suggestions about which areas I should not venture
into.

Come over...you will be enlightened


Been there, done that. And several hotel employees gave us caveats as to
where not to venture after dark. Were they lying?

You are correct in that our culture and yours are different in many
respects. I don't have the answers as to why this is the case, but I do
know that violence is an integral part of US society. Movies, TV, and video
games glorify violence and guns. And criminals are often heros in films and
literature.

Like I said...Hollywood....

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

When the rioters burned a good portion of Chicago's ghettos. I don't think
just the cops had guns.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

OzOne made stuff up and wrote it down.......
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:20:28 -0500, "Scotty"

scribbled thusly:

at the cost of freedom. Not a good trade IMO.

What freedom...the one that has you looking over your
shoulder when
walking at night...or the one that has you looking around
when a car
backfires?

I don't do any of those things.
I don't know anybody that does.
Do you do those things.
Perhaps Jon does.

The rest of the world gets a rather distorted, over-dramatized view of
America's gun issues. Oz must think we lurk in shadows, holding our
defense weapons in front of our bodies, constantly wary of attackers.
That only happens in paintball arcades, to the best of my knowledge.

Sorry Max, but it does happen. I was around during the Chicago riots.

Which Chicago riots were those?? 1961 Democratic National Convention??
If that's what you're referring to, only the cops had guns.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

It is if you live in a major city near a poor neighborhood.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
Having lived in big cities growing up, yes, I've looked over my shoulder
when a car backfires, except on occaision when it was actually gunfire.
Then, I ran like hell.

That was almost 40 years ago....and hasn't been repeated...

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

I was talking about LA, but SF is a small city... so, it wouldn't be that
unusual to be close to that kind of place... as you know.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Having lived in big cities growing up, yes, I've looked over my shoulder
when a car backfires, except on occaision when it was actually gunfire.
Then, I ran like hell.

Sorry, Jon. I wasn't aware you lived in the Tenderloin.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

You know that's really uncalled for. Because I'm a liberal now means I
detest America??? More likely, because you've a right-wing nut you think
it's ok for Christians to impose their world view on those who don't share
their beliefs.

It's the same old song.. if you disagree, you're anti-American, unpatriotic,
a traitor. That's bull****. I suggest you don't know the meaning of the word
patriotism.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Bart" .@. wrote in message
...

What exactly is wrong about being a Christian these days?

Being associated with the likes of Bush.

Do you despise major league baseball because Bush was once a team owner?

Yes, but I despised mlb before Bush.

Do you refuse to eat beef because he's a cattle rancher?

No, but I think about it.

Your "reasoning" for incrimination by association makes no sense.

Keep criticising us Oz... we need a reality check.

We have plenty of criticism from within our borders. We don't need to
hear an Aussie's vitriol. He's neither a patriot nor a citizen. His
criticism smacks of anti-Americanism rather than constructive verbiage.

Well, I'm an American it doesn't bother me.

Your a liberal, Jon. You detest America, just like Ozzy. In the
secular-progressive vernacular, the USA is the worst nation on the planet,
guilty of vile acts of international terror and violence, bereft of
decency, a worthless shell of a country led by despots and fascist
dictators who embrace corrupt foreign policies.

Frankly I think the USA, while far from flawless, is among the most moral
and decent nations in history. That's where you and I diverge in opinion.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote:
Martin Baxter scribbled thusly:
OzOne wrote:

Looks like Whistler and Squaw this winter.

Whistler I can see, but why bother going south? Our snow is better! ;-)

Free skiing in Squaw...

How do you wrangle the free skiing at Squaw?

Enquiring minds want to know...

//Walt

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:56:24 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 03:29:10 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

Oz,
Come to Atlantic City.

It's on my list!

Let me know when you do, I'll be sailing nearby!
Scout


Won't be happening for at least 12 months.
Looks like Whistler and Squaw this winter.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

I only ski Jack Frost Mt. They have a bunny hill.
Even at that, I once ran over my wife. I kept on going but not
intentionally.
Scout

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote:
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:12:51 -0500, katy
scribbled thusly:

They base their opinions of us on what Hollywood presents...

Nope, I base my opinions on my time in the US.

That's funny, so do I. I think a couple of the differences between us
vis a vis the USA is, I *lived* there wasn't just a tourist, and I
spent most of my time in AZ & NM. Two of the most heavily armed states
of the USA, with the least restrictive gun laws.

Never had any problems. Saw people carrying quite frequently, from a
guy in his 70's coming from the opera to dinner (took his jacket off,
gun in shoulder holster) to young guys fishing in what passed for lakes
(puddles really) carrying revolvers on their hips.

I think I've told this one before but what the hell. Friend of mine,
5'1" female, was exploring parts of old Tucson at one point. She had
the feeling that she was being followed and after a while was convinced
she was, cos she kept spotting the same guy a block or so back on the
other side of the street. Since she was just noodling along, it was
distinctly odd that so was he, she thought. So she started worrying
about being mugged. A bit further along, she could see he was still
there so she put her hand on her fanny pack (where her money was) and
stared hard at him. At this point the guy turned around and disappeared
up the nearest side street.

What she didn't know was that fanny packs with inbuilt pistol holsters
are a common item. She wasn't carrying, but sufficient do that muggers
can't be sure. It all could have been completely harmless, of course.
Then again, maybe not. Anyway, it's an anecdote.

So - how many times *were* you mugged, threatened with a firearm or
otherwise traumatised while in the USA, Oz, and where did it happen?
You come across like an American worried about being eaten by crocs
when visiting the Territory....

I really haven't time for this ATM, too much work to do.... guess when
it boils down to it, I have more faith in the good sense and morality
of my fellow Aussies than you do. Got my doubts about our most recent
immigrants tho so keeping pistols out of their hands is a good thing
IMO. Pity the cops can't actually manage to do it. Shrug.

PDW

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:15:26 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

Been there, done that. And several hotel employees gave us caveats as to
where not to venture after dark. Were they lying?

Nah, trying to make you feel at home :-)

Where was this/what part of which city were you staying in?

Are you really going to make me dig out my receipts?

Okay. We stayed last visit at the Marriott Sydney Harbour. Prior to that
we stayed at the Sir Stamford, but couldn't get in on the next visit--they
were booked. Their prices are excellent. Next time we're planning to stay
at the Shangri la. They're prices aren't.

Any recommendations?

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
You know that's really uncalled for. Because I'm a liberal now means I
detest America???

Michael Moore is a liberal. He has referred to this country as the worst
terrorist nation on Earth. And his rhetoric is not at all uncommon. Many
others have spoken similarly. Do you dispute that many secular-progressives
believe the US is a bad place, corrupt in foreign and domestic policy? How
do you feel about the USA?

More likely, because you've a right-wing nut you think it's ok for
Christians to impose their world view on those who don't share their
beliefs.

Nope. I don't. But traditional Christian values have provided a moral
compass for this country for over 200 years, and it has worked fairly well
for the most part. Yeah, we've made mistakes and there have been corrupt
leaders, but by and large the USA has been among the most moral and decent
nations in history. Do you disagree that Christian values have played a
role in that?


It's the same old song.. if you disagree, you're anti-American,
unpatriotic, a traitor. That's bull****. I suggest you don't know the
meaning of the word patriotism.

That may be the case. John Kerry claims to be a patriot, but he held
unofficial meetings with our enemies (the Viet Cong and the NVA) in Paris
during the Vietnam conflict. He and Jane Fonda both verbalized support for
them during the war. Is that your version of patriotism?

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
When the rioters burned a good portion of Chicago's ghettos. I don't think
just the cops had guns.

Please bring me up to speed on this event, Jon. I vaguely recall something
like that, but don't remember specifics. When and what was the stimulus?

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Scout" wrote in message
...
OzOne wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:56:24 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

OzOne wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 03:29:10 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

Oz,
Come to Atlantic City.

It's on my list!

Let me know when you do, I'll be sailing nearby!
Scout


Won't be happening for at least 12 months.
Looks like Whistler and Squaw this winter.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

I only ski Jack Frost Mt. They have a bunny hill.
Even at that, I once ran over my wife. I kept on going but not
intentionally.
Scout

Did she sue you?

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Maxprop" wrote
(deleted it all)


I keep deleting this whole stupid topic. But it keeps coming back. I
wish I never started it....
It was supposed to be a joke. That retarded down under guy took it for
real. Duh. What's his
problem? Somebody get out the big butterfly net and put him back in the
home please....

This is the most disingenuous post I've ever seen in ASA. Neal knows
perfectly well that even the offhanded mention of guns here starts a
multiweeks-long thread every time.

When are you going to take that little vixen sockpuppet off your left hand,
Cappy? And we really don't need to know what you've been doing with your
right hand, thanks.

Oh, before you come out of the sockpuppet closet, please post a few more
photos.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

It was right around the time of the LA riots. I would imagine the causes
were, in no particular order, hooliganism, racial injustice, unemployment...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
When the rioters burned a good portion of Chicago's ghettos. I don't
think just the cops had guns.

Please bring me up to speed on this event, Jon. I vaguely recall
something like that, but don't remember specifics. When and what was the
stimulus?

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

I'll not dignify this with a response other than the following...

So what Michael Moore says is now the gospel for all liberals?
"Many secular-progressives"??? So, that means most or all? And, because I'm
a liberal, I must therefore hate the US.
The "Christian values" of which you speak have nothing to do with Bushco,
Limbaugh, Roberston, and the like.
No response to more lies about Kerry.
Fonda was hot stuff back then. If you take her seriously, you have more
mental problems than I would typically ascribe to you.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
You know that's really uncalled for. Because I'm a liberal now means I
detest America???

Michael Moore is a liberal. He has referred to this country as the worst
terrorist nation on Earth. And his rhetoric is not at all uncommon. Many
others have spoken similarly. Do you dispute that many
secular-progressives believe the US is a bad place, corrupt in foreign and
domestic policy? How do you feel about the USA?

More likely, because you've a right-wing nut you think it's ok for
Christians to impose their world view on those who don't share their
beliefs.

Nope. I don't. But traditional Christian values have provided a moral
compass for this country for over 200 years, and it has worked fairly well
for the most part. Yeah, we've made mistakes and there have been corrupt
leaders, but by and large the USA has been among the most moral and decent
nations in history. Do you disagree that Christian values have played a
role in that?


It's the same old song.. if you disagree, you're anti-American,
unpatriotic, a traitor. That's bull****. I suggest you don't know the
meaning of the word patriotism.

That may be the case. John Kerry claims to be a patriot, but he held
unofficial meetings with our enemies (the Viet Cong and the NVA) in Paris
during the Vietnam conflict. He and Jane Fonda both verbalized support
for them during the war. Is that your version of patriotism?

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Scout" wrote in message
...
OzOne wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:56:24 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

OzOne wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 03:29:10 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

Oz,
Come to Atlantic City.

It's on my list!

Let me know when you do, I'll be sailing nearby!
Scout


Won't be happening for at least 12 months.
Looks like Whistler and Squaw this winter.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

I only ski Jack Frost Mt. They have a bunny hill.
Even at that, I once ran over my wife. I kept on going but not
intentionally.
Scout

Did she sue you?

Max

Worse ;o)

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

Maxprop wrote:

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
When the rioters burned a good portion of Chicago's ghettos. I don't think
just the cops had guns.

Please bring me up to speed on this event, Jon. I vaguely recall something
like that, but don't remember specifics. When and what was the stimulus?

Max

Here's a few for you Max:

June 12, 13 1966: Division Street. Puerto Ricans in the West
Town--Humboldt Park Area. In the wake of the Puerto Rican Day Parade
violence broke out after a youth was shot in the leg by police.

July 1966: West Side: Ogden to Pulaski to Lake to Cermak--Riots started
when police forcibly shut off a fire hydrant that area residents were
using to beat the heat.


April 6-8 1968: Widespread rioting on the West Side, and limited rioting
on the South Side in the wake of the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
assassination: 9 deaths.

April 3, 1969: Minor riots in the West Madison and Cabrini Green areas
on the first anniversary of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s death.
Efficient, well disciplined police response quickly controlled the
situation.

June 1977 Rioting--in and about Humboldt Park--again after the Puerto
Rican Day Parade. Fairly quickly controlled.

I was on the beach in 1963 and had the misfortune to witness Chicago
police with long clubs beating young blacks who had the audacity to come
down to the lake for a swim (among the white folks).

Cheers
Marty

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote:

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:15:43 -0500, Martin Baxter
scribbled thusly:

OzOne wrote:



Won't be happening for at least 12 months.
Looks like Whistler and Squaw this winter.


Whistler I can see, but why bother going south? Our snow is better! ;-)

Cheers
Marty

Free skiing in Squaw...

Damn that NAFTA!

Cheers
Marty (don't pull a Katy)

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote:
On 1 Nov 2006 15:30:30 -0800, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote:
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:12:51 -0500, katy
scribbled thusly:

They base their opinions of us on what Hollywood presents...

Nope, I base my opinions on my time in the US.

That's funny, so do I. I think a couple of the differences between us
vis a vis the USA is, I *lived* there wasn't just a tourist, and I
spent most of my time in AZ & NM. Two of the most heavily armed states
of the USA, with the least restrictive gun laws.

Yep, and mostly in small towns?

If you call Tucson, Phoenix & Albequerque small towns, yeah.

Did you notice any particular racial groups being prominant?

Yep. Anglos & Hispanics. Pretty funny really. You saw the Hispanics
doing all the minimum wage jobs while lazy Anglos begged for change
outside shops with 'help wanted' signs.

Like I said Oz - guns, Americans - crocs.

PDW

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
You know that's really uncalled for. Because I'm a liberal now means I
detest America???

Michael Moore is a liberal. He has referred to this country as the worst
terrorist nation on Earth. And his rhetoric is not at all uncommon.
Many others have spoken similarly. Do you dispute that many
secular-progressives believe the US is a bad place, corrupt in foreign
and domestic policy? How do you feel about the USA?

More likely, because you've a right-wing nut you think it's ok for
Christians to impose their world view on those who don't share their
beliefs.

Nope. I don't. But traditional Christian values have provided a moral
compass for this country for over 200 years, and it has worked fairly
well for the most part. Yeah, we've made mistakes and there have been
corrupt leaders, but by and large the USA has been among the most moral
and decent nations in history. Do you disagree that Christian values
have played a role in that?


It's the same old song.. if you disagree, you're anti-American,
unpatriotic, a traitor. That's bull****. I suggest you don't know the
meaning of the word patriotism.

That may be the case. John Kerry claims to be a patriot, but he held
unofficial meetings with our enemies (the Viet Cong and the NVA) in Paris
during the Vietnam conflict. He and Jane Fonda both verbalized support
for them during the war. Is that your version of patriotism?

I'll not dignify this with a response other than the following...

That's a pretty long response for not dignifying my remarks with a response.
g

So what Michael Moore says is now the gospel for all liberals?

When Fahrenheit 9/11 was released, he was the darling posterboy for the
left. Has that changed?

"Many secular-progressives"??? So, that means most or all? And, because
I'm a liberal, I must therefore hate the US.

An overriding belief that the US is a bad country with bad leadership is a
hallmark of secular-progressive thinking. It's practically their mantra.
You haven't answered my question: do you feel the US is a bad country,
corrupt, and the reason for much of the world's ills?

The "Christian values" of which you speak have nothing to do with Bushco,
Limbaugh, Roberston, and the like.

Of course not. Limbaugh eschews religious dogma of any sort. Robertson is
a bigoted idiot. And Bush, while he professes to be a Christian, is
anyone's guess as to what he really believes. The Christian values I was
referring to were/are the basis for *our particular* government as
envisioned by the founding fathers, and by most traditional Americans for
over 200 years. They are the same values the secular-progressive crowd
wishes to completely dismiss from all aspects of American public life today.

No response to more lies about Kerry.

They aren't lies. His meeting with the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong in
Paris during the war is history, Jon. Even he makes no attempt to deny it.

Fonda was hot stuff back then. If you take her seriously, you have more
mental problems than I would typically ascribe to you.

Ah yes, I was sure you'd accuse me of mental problems sooner or later. You
do that with all your debating adversaries. That's okay, actually. If
being conservative and a traditionalist means I'm mentally ill, so be it.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
It was right around the time of the LA riots. I would imagine the causes
were, in no particular order, hooliganism, racial injustice,
unemployment...

Guess they didn't make much of an impression on me as to specifics, at least
when compared with the LA riots. I do recall that about a year later,
Chicago Mayor Jane Byrne moved to a flat in Cabrini-Green to prove that she
wasn't afraid of that area, which was in the heart of the riot area. What
she wasn't telling, but the newspapers discovered, is that she had a
contingent of over 40 bodyguards and cops attending her flat and her person
at all times. The locals couldn't get anywhere near her, but they did
complain bitterly about traffic being snarled while Jane B. was leaving for,
and arriving home from, work. She stayed a few months and then quietly
slipped out, returning to her luxury home downtown. And Cabrini-Green is
still rife with gangs and street crime. I've driven through there a couple
of times during rush hour, and it doesn't appear to be as blighted as it
once was. But appearances can be deceiving. My personal bellwether for
urban improvement is when a Starbucks moves into an area. There isn't one
in Cabrini-Green, AFAIK.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
When the rioters burned a good portion of Chicago's ghettos. I don't
think
just the cops had guns.

Please bring me up to speed on this event, Jon. I vaguely recall
something
like that, but don't remember specifics. When and what was the stimulus?

Max

Here's a few for you Max:

June 12, 13 1966: Division Street. Puerto Ricans in the West
Town--Humboldt Park Area. In the wake of the Puerto Rican Day Parade
violence broke out after a youth was shot in the leg by police.

July 1966: West Side: Ogden to Pulaski to Lake to Cermak--Riots started
when police forcibly shut off a fire hydrant that area residents were
using to beat the heat.


April 6-8 1968: Widespread rioting on the West Side, and limited rioting
on the South Side in the wake of the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
assassination: 9 deaths.

April 3, 1969: Minor riots in the West Madison and Cabrini Green areas
on the first anniversary of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s death.
Efficient, well disciplined police response quickly controlled the
situation.

June 1977 Rioting--in and about Humboldt Park--again after the Puerto
Rican Day Parade. Fairly quickly controlled.

I was on the beach in 1963 and had the misfortune to witness Chicago
police with long clubs beating young blacks who had the audacity to come
down to the lake for a swim (among the white folks).

Yeah, things were rather different back then. Thankfully we've evolved
since then.

Thanks for the specifics.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Scout" wrote in message
...
OzOne wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:56:24 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

OzOne wrote in message
om...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 03:29:10 -0500, "Scout"
scribbled thusly:

Oz,
Come to Atlantic City.

It's on my list!

Let me know when you do, I'll be sailing nearby!
Scout


Won't be happening for at least 12 months.
Looks like Whistler and Squaw this winter.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

I only ski Jack Frost Mt. They have a bunny hill.
Even at that, I once ran over my wife. I kept on going but not
intentionally.
Scout

Did she sue you?

Max

Worse ;o)

Sorry.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:20:09 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

Don't you ski Europe?

Yes, usually, but my place in France has been let for the entire
season so I'm staying away this year.

I haven't been paying attention--where is your place in France?


I've spent a week at different European
resorts/cities the past four years and found the experience superior to
our
own resorts in terms of culture, dining, nightlife, and tourism.

Yeah, but you have to remeber that US culture etc are very different
to ours.
I actually enjoy the company of people who have a very limited
understanding of who I am and where I come from.

Are you sure they have only a limited understanding, or perhaps they just
don't care? Apathy is rather prevalent here.

Our
western resorts have skiing comparable to much of the European resorts,
and
generally superior snow over the span of an average winter.


I love the west coast. Spent a month there last year all around Tahoe
but unfortunately it wasn't the best season there.

It wasn't the best season anywhere last year, sadly. I went to Colorado and
experienced the worst snow I could ever remember. When I was a pro ski
patrolman at Breckenridge in the Seventies, we typically had in excess of
200" per season. Last year they'd had a bit more than 90" by the middle of
February.


Squaw Valley is rife with history, including the 1960 Olympics. Should be
fun.

Yeah, looking forward.

Watch of B&W photos of the Olympic events and personalities. It's been a
while since I skied there, but there was no shortage of such memorabilia
then.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:25:17 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:12:51 -0500, katy
scribbled thusly:

They base their opinions of us on what Hollywood presents...

Nope, I base my opinions on my time in the US.

Really?? How many times were you mugged here?

Narrowly avoided it when a Police cruiser stopped to ask if I was OK
when a couple of arseholes appeared about to do just that.

Or had your rental car
stolen?
Have had my rental car broken in to twice now and a hotel room turned
over.

Or had a knife held to your throat while you handed over your
wallet?

Nope

You watch to much TV and too many movies, Oz.

Nope, I spend much of my life in reality..

What I find amusing is that I've lived my entire life here, visited all of
the major urban areas as well as many of the mid-sized ones, and I've yet to
have any of the experiences you've had. I can't help but believe you're
venturing into the wrong neighborhoods. We have plenty of those.

Max

Off Topic *Gun violence out of control*
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:33:00 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

Your a liberal, Jon. You detest America, just like Ozzy.

It's no wonder you people have such a problem...it's always the max
words..."hate" "detest" etc.

I find the US very amusing in many respects.
Run by a Govt elected by the 51% of the 50% of registered voters who
conprise about 50% of the populaton.

That's typical. Right or wrong, apathy is rampant here. This upcoming
election should demonstrate that nicely. I'm predicting that less than 30%
of the voting-age population bothers to vote.

IOW. Only 50% of eligible voters register, of those registered, only
about 50% bother to vote and only 51% or thereabouts actually voted
for Shrub.

What's that one eighth of the population.....?

Your figures may be slightly askew. About 70 to 80% of the *likely voting*
population has voted in critical presidential elections, according to the
last numbers I saw. The key is "likely voters." No point in including, for
example, Alzheimer's patients and the terminally apathetic in such figures.

Max