Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

One of the nicest things about sailing the LIS is how many wonderful
designs are populating the area.

http://members.aol.com/bobsprit/images/twin.jpg

We turned to sail with her after depowering our main a bit.



RB
35s5
NY

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
One of the nicest things about sailing the LIS is how many wonderful
designs are populating the area.


Looks like a steel hull.
We had one rigged the same way here the other day, but it had no stays
at all. Looks like a nice single handling boat. Oh ang the one here
reefed by rolling up the sail around the mast.

Joe


http://members.aol.com/bobsprit/images/twin.jpg

We turned to sail with her after depowering our main a bit.



RB
35s5
NY

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Looks like a steel hull.
We had one rigged the same way here the other day, but it had no stays



I had thought it was an old ketch-cat Freedom from the late 70's, but I
didn't bother to look it up. Maybe someone can ID it?


RB
35s5
NY

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Looks like a steel hull.
We had one rigged the same way here the other day, but it had no stays



I had thought it was an old ketch-cat Freedom from the late 70's, but I
didn't bother to look it up. Maybe someone can ID it?


RB
35s5
NY


This might be it

http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/H...escription.htm

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

That sure looks like the original Freedom 40 Hoyt/Herreshoff design.
IIRC, the prototype was built without an engine and was a big hit in
the Caribbean racing circuit.


Capt. Rob wrote:
Looks like a steel hull.
We had one rigged the same way here the other day, but it had no stays


I had thought it was an old ketch-cat Freedom from the late 70's, but I
didn't bother to look it up. Maybe someone can ID it?


RB
35s5
NY

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Silver K wrote:
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Looks like a steel hull.
We had one rigged the same way here the other day, but it had no stays



I had thought it was an old ketch-cat Freedom from the late 70's, but I
didn't bother to look it up. Maybe someone can ID it?


RB
35s5
NY


This might be it

http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/H...escription.htm

No, close but thats not it IMO. Rudder layout is different as well as
the cabin.
Also the stern cabin is more Vagabondish.
Nice boat.

Joe

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Joe wrote:
Silver K wrote:
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Looks like a steel hull.
We had one rigged the same way here the other day, but it had no stays

I had thought it was an old ketch-cat Freedom from the late 70's, but I
didn't bother to look it up. Maybe someone can ID it?


RB
35s5
NY

This might be it

http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/H...escription.htm

No, close but thats not it IMO. Rudder layout is different as well as
the cabin.
Also the stern cabin is more Vagabondish.
Nice boat.

Joe

Wow...I want a Roberts 420...cutter rigged....what a neat boat (even if
it IS steel...)

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..


This might be it


http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/H...ptions/Roberts
420_description.htm

No, close but thats not it IMO. Rudder layout is different
as well as
the cabin.
Also the stern cabin is more Vagabondish.
Nice boat.


hey Joe, did you see the AL. dinghy?

Scotty

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Scotty wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
.


This might be it


http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/H...ptions/Roberts
420_description.htm

No, close but thats not it IMO. Rudder layout is different
as well as
the cabin.
Also the stern cabin is more Vagabondish.
Nice boat.


hey Joe, did you see the AL. dinghy?

Yelp, pretty cool.
I bet it's lighter than Doug's carbon fibre dink, and just as strong.
And cost half as much, and could be buildt in 1/4 of the time.
And will last 3 times as long.
And looks just as good.
And carries more.
:0)

Joe






Scotty

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

"Joe" wrote in
.


hey Joe, did you see the AL. dinghy?

Yelp, pretty cool.
I bet it's lighter than Doug's carbon fibre dink,

bet it's not



and just as strong.
And cost half as much, and could be buildt in 1/4 of the
time.
And will last 3 times as long.
And looks just as good.
And carries more.
:0)

Joe






Scotty

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Scotty wrote:
"Joe" wrote in
.


hey Joe, did you see the AL. dinghy?

Yelp, pretty cool.
I bet it's lighter than Doug's carbon fibre dink,

bet it's not

Doug all ready said it's heavier than he predicted. I bet it's up to
double what he estimated it would weigh.

Joe



and just as strong.
And cost half as much, and could be buildt in 1/4 of the
time.
And will last 3 times as long.
And looks just as good.
And carries more.
:0)

Joe






Scotty

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Looks like a steel hull.
We had one rigged the same way here the other day, but it had no stays

I had thought it was an old ketch-cat Freedom from the late 70's, but I
didn't bother to look it up. Maybe someone can ID it?


It's a Freedom 40, original Hoyt design with the center cockpit, rather
than the later aft-cockpit version. Still has the wishbone booms, too,
but not the wraparound sails which were typical of the very earliest
models.

Not steel. Fiberglass.

Masts look like they might be aluminium, too. They switched to
carbonfiber pretty early in the production run; but there are still a
coupla aluminium-masted low-numbered hulls out there.

Frank

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

"Joe" wrote

Scotty wrote:
hey Joe, did you see the AL. dinghy?

Yelp, pretty cool.

Agreed

I bet it's lighter than Doug's carbon fibre dink, and just as strong.

Not even close. 2-3 times heavier than Dougs dink.

And cost half as much, and could be built in 1/4 of the time.

Possibly.

And will last 3 times as long.

Probably.

And looks just as good.
Maybe better--we shall see.

And carries more.
I don't think so.

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Doug is using tent pegs and 1" double braid to
hold it down so he can finish working on it.

"Joe" wrote

Doug all ready said it's heavier than he predicted. I bet it's up to
double what he estimated it would weigh.

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Frank wrote:
It's a Freedom 40, original Hoyt design with the center cockpit, rather
than the later aft-cockpit version. Still has the wishbone booms, too,
but not the wraparound sails which were typical of the very earliest
models.


I think it might be a 44, with the bulwarks & trunk cabin.
The Freedom 40s had a rather oddly cambered flush deck. Or
it might be a Freedom 40 built with a trunk instead of the
normal deck. Several were sold to be completed as kits.


Not steel. Fiberglass.


Of course.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

"Joe" wrote
Doug all ready said it's heavier than he predicted. I bet it's up to
double what he estimated it would weigh.


Nah, it's about 12# instead of 11.

Hey Joe, didn't your parents ever teach you that it's poor
character to wish for bad things to happen to others?


Bart wrote:
Doug is using tent pegs and 1" double braid to
hold it down so he can finish working on it.


As long as it's inside the garage, I don't have to worry
about it floating away. ;)

The dinghy weighs about the same as 10 cubic inches of
aluminum. Could you make a dinghy out of that, Joe?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Last winter an old friend friend from Ohio emailed that she had just
"won" a kayak on Ebay that weighed 25 pounds. It was located near me,
so I picked it and stashed it until a co-worker of hers could pick it
up and drive it back.

While we were trying to figure out how best to deal with it (would UPS
deliver it?) I asked a friend who's a rigger how he do it, since he
sends masts around the country. He said that a virtue of the
lightweight glass kayaks is that you can cut them in half, ship them
in a small box, and glass them back together on site. (My friend
didn't go for that!) Then he said he has a friend who builds carbon
fiber kayaks that are 12 pounds, but they need a proper shipping crate.

Someday, small boats will weigh only a few ounces, which will actually
be a force field projector that allows you to dial in the type of
vehicle desired.


DSK wrote:
"Joe" wrote
Doug all ready said it's heavier than he predicted. I bet it's up to
double what he estimated it would weigh.


Nah, it's about 12# instead of 11.

Hey Joe, didn't your parents ever teach you that it's poor character to
wish for bad things to happen to others?


Bart wrote:
Doug is using tent pegs and 1" double braid to
hold it down so he can finish working on it.


As long as it's inside the garage, I don't have to worry about it
floating away. ;)

The dinghy weighs about the same as 10 cubic inches of aluminum. Could
you make a dinghy out of that, Joe?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

DSK wrote:
"Joe" wrote
Doug all ready said it's heavier than he predicted. I bet it's up to
double what he estimated it would weigh.


Nah, it's about 12# instead of 11.

Funny..You said it would weigh in at 25lbs..Pretty good work to get it
down to 12 pounds Doug.


Hey Joe, didn't your parents ever teach you that it's poor
character to wish for bad things to happen to others?

I never wished anything bad to happen Doug, I thought your Dingy was
looking fine.
I'm sure you will get many years of good use out of it, not as many as
Aluminum but many.



Bart wrote:
Doug is using tent pegs and 1" double braid to
hold it down so he can finish working on it.


As long as it's inside the garage, I don't have to worry
about it floating away. ;)

The dinghy weighs about the same as 10 cubic inches of
aluminum. Could you make a dinghy out of that, Joe?

No way, could make a nice outboard engine block, could you do that with
foam and kevlar?

Joe


Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Jeff wrote:
Last winter an old friend friend from Ohio emailed that she had just
"won" a kayak on Ebay that weighed 25 pounds.

One of the weight issues with a kayak (or any decked boat)
is that the deck needs to be much heavier than the hull.


It was located near me,
so I picked it and stashed it until a co-worker of hers could pick it up
and drive it back.

While we were trying to figure out how best to deal with it (would UPS
deliver it?) I asked a friend who's a rigger how he do it, since he
sends masts around the country. He said that a virtue of the
lightweight glass kayaks is that you can cut them in half, ship them in
a small box, and glass them back together on site. (My friend didn't go
for that!)

Sure. It wouldn't take any great skill or technology, could
be glued back together just as strong as original. It would
be a good idea to set it up on a frame or jig to do the
glueing back together, but not absolutely necessary. In
fact, making an uneven cut might make it easier to go back
together.


Then he said he has a friend who builds carbon fiber kayaks
that are 12 pounds, but they need a proper shipping crate.


Depending on how it's layed up, carbon fiber tends to
splinter a lot when cut. More difficult to stick back
together, and that would also add a bit of weight.


Someday, small boats will weigh only a few ounces, which will actually
be a force field projector that allows you to dial in the type of
vehicle desired.


That'll be next years project. ;)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

Doug all ready said it's heavier than he predicted. I bet it's up to
double what he estimated it would weigh.

Nah, it's about 12# instead of 11.


Joe wrote:
Funny..You said it would weigh in at 25lbs..Pretty good work to get it
down to 12 pounds Doug.


No, I said the bare hull would weigh 11# and the whole thing
(seats, oarlocks, gun'l rubrail, other hardware, etc etc)
might weigh in the neighborhood of 25#.

Right now I'm finishing the inner hull lay-up, and my guess
is that it weighs about 12 ~ 13 pounds. Easy to pick up with
one hand if you can get it balanced.



Hey Joe, didn't your parents ever teach you that it's poor
character to wish for bad things to happen to others?


I never wished anything bad to happen Doug, I thought your Dingy was
looking fine.

Oh, OK.... I thought you were gloating that it was heavier
than planned.


I'm sure you will get many years of good use out of it, not as many as
Aluminum but many.


Depends on how it's treated, of course. Aluminum at least
has a higher residual value at the recycle center. I'd be
very surprised if anybody could build a classic lapstrake 9'
dinghy, strong enough for everyday use, that weighed even a
hundred pounds much less 25. The aluminum center section of
a friends RIB (10' LOA) is pretty lightly built and it
weighs 130#.





The dinghy weighs about the same as 10 cubic inches of
aluminum. Could you make a dinghy out of that, Joe?


No way, could make a nice outboard engine block,

That's 10 solid cubic inches, not a mass capable of
enclosing 10ci of cylinder ;)


could you do that with
foam and kevlar?


With the right cooling system, sure.

DSK

Sweet Boats of the LIS
 

DSK wrote:
Frank wrote:
It's a Freedom 40, original Hoyt design with the center cockpit, rather
than the later aft-cockpit version. Still has the wishbone booms, too,
but not the wraparound sails which were typical of the very earliest
models.

I think it might be a 44, with the bulwarks & trunk cabin.
The Freedom 40s had a rather oddly cambered flush deck. Or
it might be a Freedom 40 built with a trunk instead of the
normal deck. Several were sold to be completed as kits.

The F 44 doesn't have a stern-hung rudder or boomkin and AFAIK it never
came in a center-cockpit version. This is the Hoyt-original-style
center-cockpit 40. The later 40 was a Hoyt-Herreshoff collaboration
with an aft-cockpit and looked like the 44 (flush deck, etc.). The 44
essentially stretched the stern of the H-H F40 to eliminate the
stern-hung rudder and boomkin setup. The underbody, although we can't
see it in this photo, for all versions of the 40 had a good bit of
wetted surface and used a centerboard. The 44 was a fixed keel with a
somewhat more "modern" underbody.

See ya,

Frank