My seamanship question # 8
 

Your sailing your dinghy through a crowded anchorage. There are lots of those big
catamarans. Lots of other big boats, too. In other words they're blocking the wind real bad.
You decide to do a little rowing so you get the oars in the water.
Are you still classified as a sailboat. Your definitely not a motor boat but your not just
sailing. If your now a rowboat do you have the right of way over a sailboat? Is there a
rule in the colregs that talks about this situation?


Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question # 8
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
Your sailing your dinghy through a crowded anchorage. There are lots of those big
catamarans. Lots of other big boats, too. In other words they're blocking the wind real bad.
You decide to do a little rowing so you get the oars in the water.
Are you still classified as a sailboat. Your definitely not a motor boat but your not just
sailing. If your now a rowboat do you have the right of way over a sailboat? Is there a
rule in the colregs that talks about this situation?

This is an interesting question - its raises a few points not often
considered.

We must ask, "are you still a sailboat if you also deploy oars?"
First of all, you have to be "under sail" - are you actually under
sail if there is no wind? Second, you can't be using "propelling
machinery." I never thought about this before, but why couldn't oars
be considered "machinery," albeit of a rudimentary nature? Of course,
the courts have never ruled that "human power" constitutes machinery,
and they've certainly ruled that a sailboat becalmed is still a
sailboat, so we're left with simply that a sailboat with oars is still
a sailboat.

Now we come to the next question, "does a rowboat have right of way?"
Of course, "right of way" is not a concept in the Colregs, and even
the terms privilege and burden have been removed. But its still
convenient to use these terms, if you keep in mind that the wording,
and underlying concepts, are different.

The interesting thing is that there is absolutely no mention of
vessels under oars, other than to mention that a vessel under oars
*may* use the same lights as a sailboat, if they want to. Some people
have tried to claim that this puts rowboats at the same level as
sailboats on the "pecking order" but there is no basis for this. And
of course, some will always claim that rowboats have rights because
they are small, or less maneuverable, but this is not particularly
compelling. To confuse the matter more, many states have inland rules
that apply in non-navigable waters not connected to oceans that do
specify that human powered boats have right of way over all others.

However, the Colregs do not have anything to say about
responsibilities concerning vessels under oars. Since we already
established you are still a sailboat, the interaction with another
sailboat would simply have to be considered on that basis. Of course,
if the is no wind, and the boat under oars has to take into account
other rules, such as "limitations of vessels."

My seamanship question # 8
 

"Jeff" wrote
| This is an interesting question - its raises a few points not often
| considered.
|
| We must ask, "are you still a sailboat if you also deploy oars?"
| First of all, you have to be "under sail" - are you actually under
| sail if there is no wind? Second, you can't be using "propelling
| machinery." I never thought about this before, but why couldn't oars
| be considered "machinery," albeit of a rudimentary nature? Of course,
| the courts have never ruled that "human power" constitutes machinery,
| and they've certainly ruled that a sailboat becalmed is still a
| sailboat, so we're left with simply that a sailboat with oars is still
| a sailboat.
|
| Now we come to the next question, "does a rowboat have right of way?"
| Of course, "right of way" is not a concept in the Colregs, and even
| the terms privilege and burden have been removed. But its still
| convenient to use these terms, if you keep in mind that the wording,
| and underlying concepts, are different.
|
| The interesting thing is that there is absolutely no mention of
| vessels under oars, other than to mention that a vessel under oars
| *may* use the same lights as a sailboat, if they want to. Some people
| have tried to claim that this puts rowboats at the same level as
| sailboats on the "pecking order" but there is no basis for this. And
| of course, some will always claim that rowboats have rights because
| they are small, or less maneuverable, but this is not particularly
| compelling. To confuse the matter more, many states have inland rules
| that apply in non-navigable waters not connected to oceans that do
| specify that human powered boats have right of way over all others.
|
| However, the Colregs do not have anything to say about
| responsibilities concerning vessels under oars. Since we already
| established you are still a sailboat, the interaction with another
| sailboat would simply have to be considered on that basis. Of course,
| if the is no wind, and the boat under oars has to take into account
| other rules, such as "limitations of vessels."


Wow! I'm impressed. Very well written. Sounds like something you'd read out of a book. Did you get it
out of a book or did you just write it on the spot? So, the answer is your probably still a sailboat. So you
can't really go wrong following the sailboat rules. Thank you very much for such a complete answer. Your
a credit to this newsgroup.

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question # 8
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote
| This is an interesting question - its raises a few points not often
| considered.
| ...


Wow! I'm impressed. Very well written. Sounds like something you'd read out of a book. Did you get it
out of a book or did you just write it on the spot?

Actually, I've frequently pondered the question of human powered
privilege, ever since a bozo on a kayak yelled at me that as the
smaller boat he obviously had right of way.

One of the longest threads in recent years on this forum concerned the
prudence and legality of a kayak crossing the English Channel in the
fog.

So, the answer is your probably still a sailboat. So you
can't really go wrong following the sailboat rules.

Actually, in practice you'd be well advised to give a wide berth to
the nutcase rowing with the sails up.

Thank you very much for such a complete answer. Your
a credit to this newsgroup.

My seamanship question # 8
 

In article ews.net,
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
Your sailing your dinghy through a crowded anchorage. There are lots of those big
catamarans. Lots of other big boats, too. In other words they're blocking the wind real bad.
You decide to do a little rowing so you get the oars in the water.
Are you still classified as a sailboat. Your definitely not a motor boat but your not just
sailing. If your now a rowboat do you have the right of way over a sailboat? Is there a
rule in the colregs that talks about this situation?


Cheers,
Ellen

Why don't you just read the colregs...


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

My seamanship question # 8
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
| Why don't you just read the colregs...


I read them. Several times. Like Jeff said. That situation isn't covered by the colregs.
Like otn said the colregs were written mostly for big ships. Some things don't really apply
to little boats like rowboats, kayaks and dinghies under sail and oar.

Cheers,
Ellen