My seamanship question #1
 

DSK wrote:
....



As I make it out, if the two are both on starboard tack, and the
faster one (catching up) is heading 180 and the other 208, then the
one first one (catching up) will be to windward as they converge.
That gives the other boat a double right of way!


Yes, if this is converging, the slower boat is to leeward and is still
standon.

So what's the big deal? The boat "catching up" has to dodge the other
one, which is pretty much what everybody has said. If "Ellen M" has any
point-awarding authority then she should give everybody some.

Ellen mis-understands the rule and claims the heading imply this is
not overtaking. She get -100 points for not understanding her own quiz.

My seamanship question #1
 

Nope. You're wrong. It's not a crossing situation.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Capt. Scumbalino" wrote

| In lieu of that, I would say that the windward boat has to keep clear.

Right, the windward boat must stay clear. Both are on the starboard
tack and it's not overtaking by definition. It's a crossing situation.

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #1
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:

A little sailboat with no motor is on the starboard tack catching up with another
little sailboat with no motor on the starboard tack. The one catching up is going
on a course of 180 degrees. The one getting caught is going 208 degrees.

Which one has to change course if it looks like they're going to hit each other?

Your questions are meaningless unles you specify whether the boats are
racing or not. The Racing Rules of Sailing often give quite different
answers than ColRegs et. al.

Basically, unless you're racing, there is no reason to ever get that
close to another boat and any collision is most likely the result of
*both* skippers being incompetent.

//Walt

My seamanship question #1
 

Walt wrote:
Ellen MacArthur wrote:

A little sailboat with no motor is on the starboard tack catching
up with another
little sailboat with no motor on the starboard tack. The one catching
up is going
on a course of 180 degrees. The one getting caught is going 208 degrees.

Which one has to change course if it looks like they're going to
hit each other?

Your questions are meaningless unles you specify whether the boats are
racing or not. The Racing Rules of Sailing often give quite different
answers than ColRegs et. al.

I wouldn't expect boats to be racing unless it is so stated. There
are lots of unstated possibilities here - you could just as easily
claim its meaningless if it isn't stated whether there is limited
visibility. In the US there is lots of sailing where Colregs and even
the Inland rules don't apply.

Of course, it would be easier if the quiz started with "In waters
where Colregs apply, in good visibility, ..."



Basically, unless you're racing, there is no reason to ever get that
close to another boat and any collision is most likely the result of
*both* skippers being incompetent.

This is a pretty lame way of looking at the rules. Are you really
claiming that Colregs should be ignored because anyone who gets close
enough to another boat to need them is incompetent?

The question only implied that without a course change "it looks like
they're going to hit." This situation happens to me many times every
time I leave the dock. If I'm the give-way boat, I give-way. If I'm
stand-on, I usually stand-on, though I keep my eye on the other boat
to make sure their understanding of the situation is the same as mine.

My seamanship question #1
 

"Lady Pilot" wrote in message
news:pZINg.71457$W01.1319@dukeread08...

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote:
snip boring crap from a cedar bucket

This is FUN!

This is boring, Bart Senorita!

Yeah, I can see how sailing discussions would leave you feeling somewhat
outcast, LP.

Max

My seamanship question #1
 

"katy" wrote
| I don't need to resort to crudeness...smirk....meow....


Good on you. About 90% of the people here could learn a thing or two from you. :-)

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #1
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"katy" wrote
| I don't need to resort to crudeness...smirk....meow....


Good on you. About 90% of the people here could learn a thing or two from you. :-)

Cheers,
Ellen


I doubt it...most know me well enough already....

My seamanship question #1
 

Jeff wrote:

Sorry, Ellen, you have that wrong. Its 22.5 degrees behind the beam,
not a difference in course. If the two boats have those headings it
could be either overtaking or converging, which would make it
crossing. However, since you stated "catching up" its hard to make
this into something that isn't overtaking.

The only thing that makes it overtaking is the situation on the water. The
terminology used to pose the question doesn't make it so. The original
question, as posed, didn't have enough information to determine whether the
situation was an overtaking one.


--
Capt Scumbalino

My seamanship question #1
 

The colregs are *fully* in force when racing. The only difference is the
tolerances wrt distance and expectations.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Walt" wrote in message
...
Ellen MacArthur wrote:

A little sailboat with no motor is on the starboard tack catching up
with another
little sailboat with no motor on the starboard tack. The one catching up
is going
on a course of 180 degrees. The one getting caught is going 208 degrees.

Which one has to change course if it looks like they're going to hit
each other?

Your questions are meaningless unles you specify whether the boats are
racing or not. The Racing Rules of Sailing often give quite different
answers than ColRegs et. al.

Basically, unless you're racing, there is no reason to ever get that close
to another boat and any collision is most likely the result of *both*
skippers being incompetent.

//Walt

My seamanship question #1
 

Capt. JG wrote:

The colregs are *fully* in force when racing. The only difference is the
tolerances wrt distance and expectations.


Agreed, but there are differences.... some subtle, some not
so subtle... between the racing rules and ColRegs.

For example, under ColRegs, an overtaking boat must keep
clear. All well and good. Under racing rules, an overtaking
boat must keep clear, too... unless the two boats are on the
same tack and the overtaking boat is to leeward. Then, once
an interval has passed satisfying the overtaking/leeward
boat's obligation to allow room & opportunity to keep clear,
to the other boat, the burden shifts to the windward boat.
This is the case even if he is still being overtaken, or if
he then puts on a little speed (or leeward slows down, a is
more likely).

There is nothing remotely like this in ColRegs, which
assumes that two boats are not going to be jockeying for
position to round the next mark, and want to occupy the same
bit of water at the same time.

However, ColRegs are *definitely* in force with regard to
boats that are racing with respect to boats that aren't.
Some racers seem to feel otherwise, and ColRegs violations
against commercial traffic especially are depressingly
common. IMHO race committees ought to start tossing people
out when they try to gain a position by cutting in front of
a freighter.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

My seamanship question #1
 

And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this is a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course. The one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being overtaken, in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed isn't an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Scotty wrote:
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this is a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course. The one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being overtaken, in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed isn't an
issue.
because if the speeds were such one could conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....




I said that....

My seamanship question #1
 

Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this is a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course. The one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being overtaken, in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed isn't an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course. The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course. The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Scotty wrote:
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this is
a
dumb question.....




I said that....

I thought it sounded familiar.

My seamanship question #1
 

Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Capt. JG wrote:
The colregs are *fully* in force when racing. The only difference is the
tolerances wrt distance and expectations.

I had the understanding that when you agreed to race you were "opting
out" of the Colregs and agreeing to abide by the racing rules. OTOH,
this obviously only applies between boats racing.

My seamanship question #1
 

The overtaking boat.

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...
A little sailboat with no motor is on the starboard tack catching up
with another
little sailboat with no motor on the starboard tack. The one catching up
is going
on a course of 180 degrees. The one getting caught is going 208 degrees.

Which one has to change course if it looks like they're going to hit
each other?

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #1
 

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:49:02 +0100, "Capt. Scumbalino"
wrote:

Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote:

"The one catching up is going on a course of 180 degrees" If they are
to converge "the direction from the beam of the vessel being
overtaken" must be less than 28 degrees.

Whether or not they converge is a function of their current positions, their
courses and their speeds. Have a look at my diagram linked to elsewhere. If
the red boat is doing 1kt, and the green one 100kts, then the green one will
be past the red one - will pass over the red boat's projected course - long
before the red boat gets to the same point.

The direction from the beam has nothing to do with convergence, but is a
means of defining whether the situation is an overtaking one.

Yes, I had a bad brain fart.
It was specified in the question that the situation to be considered
was that they would collide if both boats maintained course and speed.
("if it looks like they're going to hit each other"). Drawing vectors
back from the projected collision point you can say that the faster
("catching up"), 180 degree, boat has to be doing more than 1.45 times
the speed of the other, for it to be within the being overtaken
(white) sector of the 208 degree boat.

My seamanship question #1
 

Hey, Scumbalino! You were quickly in my killfile when you first appeared
here but I am pleased to see you are right on topic now and you are right.

"Capt. Scumbalino" wrote in message
...
Ellen MacArthur wrote:

How come? You got it wrong too when in your other post you
talked about one of the boats being overtaken.

I see you people need a hint: Subtract the angles. Does the
result fit the definition of overtake?

A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with another
vessel
from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, ...

You have described the course that each vessel is on, the subtraction of
one
from the other being 28 degrees - but this doesn't pertain to the
direction
from the beam of the vessel being overtaken. You didn't define their
positions, only their courses, and stated that their courses look like
they
will converge (which, for colreg purposes, is close enough to be
considered
a potential collision situation).

So, we have a boat on 208deg, and another (catching up on the first) on
180deg, with a convergence point ahead if they maintain these courses.
Whether the catching boat is 22.5deg abaft of the other boat's beam is
unknown - they could be on a collision course, or not, depending on their
positions. See...

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/826...48327613VRqQxV

In the left-hand diagram, the green boat is overtaking the red one, but it
isn't in the right-hand diagram because it's ahead of the green one's
imaginary line representing 22.5deg abaft her beam. Until you define their
positions, it cannot be said for sure that the situation is an overtaking
one.

In lieu of that, I would say that the windward boat has to keep clear.


--
Capt Scumbalino

My seamanship question #1
 

"Edgar" wrote
| The overtaking boat.


Errr! I'm afraid I have egg on my face. Your right. It IS an overtaking situation.
I was wrong. I got the 22 and 1/2 angle mixed up. I was thinking it was from the
center line at the back of the boat. Instead it's from the sideways line.
Overtaking is required to change course.


Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #1
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Edgar" wrote
| The overtaking boat.


Errr! I'm afraid I have egg on my face. Your right. It IS an overtaking situation.
I was wrong. I got the 22 and 1/2 angle mixed up. I was thinking it was from the
center line at the back of the boat. Instead it's from the sideways line.
Overtaking is required to change course.

This would be the typical case but not necessarily.

If the boats were going at similar speeds, they could be converging
from a distance and seeing each other roughly on the beam. By
jiggling the speeds, you can find the point where one sees the other
at exactly 22.5 degrees abaft the beam. The question is, could this
be considered "catching up"?

My seamanship question #1
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
| If the boats were going at similar speeds, they could be converging
| from a distance and seeing each other roughly on the beam. By
| jiggling the speeds, you can find the point where one sees the other
| at exactly 22.5 degrees abaft the beam. The question is, could this
| be considered "catching up"?


In that case if it were dark you could see the stern light and the bow light
both at the same time. It's still overtaking. It's called two points abaft the beam.
Catching up in my vocabulary means getting closer from somewhere behind even
if it's just one degree from directly from the side (90 degrees).

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #1
 

Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

I must confess that I have limited racing experience, but it seems to me
that it's not often that a sanctioned race (committee) would attempt to "opt
out" of the colregs, wrt to boats in the race or otherwise. Leeward no
longer has status over windward on the same tack... stuff like that? It also
seems to me that the exceptions need to be clearly defined. My impression,
although possibly in error, is that there are additional rules imposed upon
boats racing, not fewer.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
The colregs are *fully* in force when racing. The only difference is the
tolerances wrt distance and expectations.

I had the understanding that when you agreed to race you were "opting out"
of the Colregs and agreeing to abide by the racing rules. OTOH, this
obviously only applies between boats racing.

My seamanship question #1
 

Edgar wrote:

Hey, Scumbalino! You were quickly in my killfile when you first
appeared here but I am pleased to see you are right on topic now and
you are right.

Why on earth you decided to killfile me when I first appeared is a mystery,
since the thrust of my initial posts was to tell a few flonkers just how
dumb they really were, and to make my views on Neal's involvement with them,
and that ****ed-up hoor he made the mistake of getting in tow with, quite
plain. In other words, I did nothing other than uphold the way in which this
group has operated for a long time before the aforementioned saddos tried to
have a go at screwing it up.


--
Capt Scumbalino

My seamanship question #1
 

Capt. JG wrote:
Name three as applicable to the original question.

Catch up on his freedom fries of boat 1, catch-up on reading on boat
two, boat two is a Ketch w sails up ie: catching up.

Easy Jon.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Capt. JG wrote:
I must confess that I have limited racing experience, but it seems to
me that it's not often that a sanctioned race (committee) would
attempt to "opt out" of the colregs, wrt to boats in the race or
otherwise. Leeward no longer has status over windward on the same
tack... stuff like that? It also seems to me that the exceptions need
to be clearly defined. My impression, although possibly in error, is
that there are additional rules imposed upon boats racing, not fewer.

My understanding is that the colregs always apply (if the waters are subject
to them). I'm not aware of them being supplanted by the RRS, but that the
RRS are an addition to the colregs.


--
Capt Scumbalino

My seamanship question #1
 

You got me. I'm voting for Jeb.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

Capt. JG wrote:
Name three as applicable to the original question.

Catch up on his freedom fries of boat 1, catch-up on reading on boat
two, boat two is a Ketch w sails up ie: catching up.

Easy Jon.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
| If the boats were going at similar speeds, they could be converging
| from a distance and seeing each other roughly on the beam. By
| jiggling the speeds, you can find the point where one sees the other
| at exactly 22.5 degrees abaft the beam. The question is, could this
| be considered "catching up"?


In that case if it were dark you could see the stern light and the bow light
both at the same time. It's still overtaking. It's called two points abaft the beam.
Catching up in my vocabulary means getting closer from somewhere behind even
if it's just one degree from directly from the side (90 degrees).

In that case, your scenario could be either overtaking or not.

My seamanship question #1
 

1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me, Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4 mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

4. I've already finished and am sitting at the bar wondering why everyone
else is so slow.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me, Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4 mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Please don't be bitter in defeat.

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
4. I've already finished and am sitting at the bar
wondering why everyone
else is so slow.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron
could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on
the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than
a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in
screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me,
Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is
no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4
mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a
situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message

. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in
message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story.
Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being
needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

And I didn't even say it was DNF....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Please don't be bitter in defeat.

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
4. I've already finished and am sitting at the bar
wondering why everyone
else is so slow.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron
could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on
the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than
a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in
screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me,
Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is
no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4
mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a
situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message

. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in
message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story.
Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being
needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Scotty wrote:

1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.


Except that Suzy has taken the helm again and is intent on
ramming Mooron to plunder his beer supply.


2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me, Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is no
situation to be worried about.


Katysails would never collide with anybody, that's far too
uncouth.... unless you made her mad.


3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4 mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.


He'd be worried if he realized that my PHRF-penalty custom
torpedo-bulb keel is actually a real wire-guided torpedo.

DSK

My seamanship question #1
 

We knew.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And I didn't even say it was DNF....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Please don't be bitter in defeat.

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
4. I've already finished and am sitting at the bar
wondering why everyone
else is so slow.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while
Mooron
could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and
on
the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more
than
a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in
screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me,
Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there
is
no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is
1/4
mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about
the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message

. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a
situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in
message

. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two
boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up,
and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in
message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story.
Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being
needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Capt. Scumbalino wrote:
Capt. JG wrote:

I must confess that I have limited racing experience, but it seems to
me that it's not often that a sanctioned race (committee) would
attempt to "opt out" of the colregs, wrt to boats in the race or
otherwise.

In 99.9 percent of the cases, the race committee follows the Racing
Rules of Sailing. (with perhaps a few minor modifications ) These rules
are different than non-racing right of way rules. (Colregs, etc.)

In extremely rare circumstances, the RC will opt for Colregs or local
governmental right of way rules instead of the Racing rules of sailing.

Leeward no longer has status over windward on the same
tack... stuff like that?

Yes, in some circumstances a windward boat would have right of way over
a leeward boat, or more commonly the leeward boat would have an
obligation to allow the windward boat room to do some maneuver.

It also seems to me that the exceptions need
to be clearly defined.

They are. See http://tinyurl.com/bdxvl
Not really exceptions, but a completly different set of rules.

My impression, although possibly in error, is
that there are additional rules imposed upon boats racing, not fewer.

There are additional obligations, certainly. But there are also
differences.


My understanding is that the colregs always apply (if the waters are subject
to them). I'm not aware of them being supplanted by the RRS, but that the
RRS are an addition to the colregs.

When the racing rules of sailing conflict with Colregs, IRPCAS, or
other government regulation, the RRS supplants those rules. When a boat
agrees to race she agrees to be bound by the RRS, not the other rules in
any circumstance where the rules are in conflict.

However,

When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is
not, she shall comply with the International Regulations for
Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way
rules.

If you don't race, the racing rules are irrelevant to you.

//Walt

My seamanship question #1
 

"Walt" wrote in message
...

However,

When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel
that is
not, she shall comply with the International
Regulations for
Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government
right-of-way
rules.

If you don't race, the racing rules are irrelevant to you.


I like the old story of a racer , approaching a cruising
boat, yelling ''We're racing', and the other boat yells
back, ''We're cruising'', and continues on his course.

Scotty

My seamanship question #1
 

Scotty wrote:
"Walt" wrote in message
...
However,

When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel
that is
not, she shall comply with the International
Regulations for
Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government
right-of-way
rules.

If you don't race, the racing rules are irrelevant to you.


I like the old story of a racer , approaching a cruising
boat, yelling ''We're racing', and the other boat yells
back, ''We're cruising'', and continues on his course.

Scotty


I had that happen to me...I was in the water and the O'Day was
aground...we were trying to see how much mud we were in when a flotilla
of MC Scows comes roaring up...Mr Sails is yelling at them that I am in
the water and they screamed back "We're racing!" One zoomed by close
enough that I could have touched its hull....