Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

What makes a boat "fast?" It's an interesting question, because fruits
like Sloco seem to think it's about PHRF records...which would make my
boat faster than a C&C99! But PHRF is simply a handicapping system
designed to let a slow boat race against a fast one. Assuming you have
a rating that is fare (and many aren't) it's a measure of the crew and
NOT the boat, just like one class racing. Hey, PHRF is fine. Without it
most people can't have fun racing unless they own a very popular hull,
but no matter how you dress it, it's far far FAR from real racing.
Sloco won't admit to this...his life depends on PHRF because he owns a
boat that failed in production. And to be honest, even the successful
35s5 (well over 400 hulls) can't find enough sisters to get a big race
going...just 2 or 3 in my area and only one close by.
So to have a fast boat we can look at PHRF as a rough indicator of
comparative performance, but there are plenty of Catalina 27 PHRF wins.
Does this make it a fast boat among 27 foot cruisers? Sloco and Dave
would like to think so.
The term "performance cruiser" is tossed around with ease by builders
these days and the type of performance can mean anything. If you're
looking for speed and light air ability with good accommodations, my
35s5 is nicer than a new Catalina 34 or 38 and a brand new Jeaneau is
going to be nicer than either.
So is a CS27 a fast boat? Nope...not among other 27 footers. It's
slightly faster than average at best.
Is a 35s5 a fast boat? For her size I'd prefer to call her quick
because in her size range there are boats like the slightly larger 36XL
Is a Express 30 a fast boat? She's quick...not fast. Ugly and dated,
but not slow.

Now in strict terms of boat speed, the 35s5 is simply faster than the
Express 30, CS27, Nordica 30, Redcloud Turtle 43, Sadlittleman 30,
Kirie Elite 32, Catalina 28 and so on. The ONLY way any of these boats
"beats" a 35s5 is with the desperate handicap. In the real world I sail
the fastest monohull here and that's a fact.

Sorry, folks!


RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

--
"Swab Rob" wrote

What makes a boat "fast?"

A big motor!

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

"Swab Rob" wrote
Now in strict terms of boat speed, the 35s5 is simply
faster than the
Express 30, CS27, Nordica 30, Redcloud Turtle 43,
Sadlittleman 30,
Kirie Elite 32, Catalina 28 and so on. The ONLY way any of
these boats
"beats" a 35s5 is with the desperate handicap.


that ''desperate handicap'' being YOU as the captain of the
35.5.

;)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

that ''desperate handicap'' being YOU as the captain of the
35.5.


Hey, how come you had nothing to say about my movie making effort?!!!


http://youtube.com/watch?v=pWe_Lf71o1U



RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Capt. Rob wrote:

What makes a boat "fast?"

A spinnaker.


Sorry, folks!

I'm sure you'll do something more with it, one day, than raise it in a flat
calm so you can dry out the seagull ****...


--
Capt Scumbalino

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Capt. Rob wrote:

Hey, how come you had nothing to say about my movie making effort?!!!

Too much compression. Too much shake - get a Steadicam or something.


--
Capt Scumbalino

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

What makes a boat "fast?"


A spinnaker.



Wrong, most speed and passage records were made with little or even no
use of the chute at all.


RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

I'm sure you'll do something more with it, one day, than raise it in a
flat
calm so you can dry out the seagull ****...


No knowldge of Ornithology either, aye?
Seagull "****" is discharged with solid waste and could not effect my
sails while flaked and furled.


RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

get a Steadicam or something.



Do you think my little Casio camera will balance properly on the Cinema
Products Steadicam Mk 4?



RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
...
Seagull "****" is discharged with solid waste and could not effect my
sails while flaked and furled.


Then its a good thing yours stay that way.

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Unless you have a truly huge mono, a planning mono like a 49er, or a
multihull, fast is not a word I would use to describe sailing. Sailing isn't
about going fast. It is perhaps, in a very limited case, about beating other
boats in a race. For cruising, there's no such thing as fast. If you're in a
hurry take a car or a plane. Cruising is the antithesis of fast.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..


--
"Swab Rob" wrote

What makes a boat "fast?"

A big motor!

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Well put, Capt. Jon.

SV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Unless you have a truly huge mono, a planning mono like a
49er, or a
multihull, fast is not a word I would use to describe
sailing. Sailing isn't
about going fast. It is perhaps, in a very limited case,
about beating other
boats in a race. For cruising, there's no such thing as
fast. If you're in a
hurry take a car or a plane. Cruising is the antithesis of
fast.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..


--
"Swab Rob" wrote

What makes a boat "fast?"

A big motor!

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

--
"Swab Rob" wrote
that ''desperate handicap'' being YOU as the captain of
the
35.5.


Hey, how come you had nothing to say about my movie making
effort?!!!


http://youtube.com/watch?v=pWe_Lf71o1U


stupid is as stupid does.

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Is a 35s5 a fast boat? For her size I'd prefer to call her quick


Sorry, but that's not true when your talking 35' "racer/cruisers" and
isn't the 35s5 a racer cruiser?

35s5 always bringing up the rear.

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Sorry, but that's not true when your talking 35' "racer/cruisers" and
isn't the 35s5 a racer cruiser?


Nope, and Beneteau did not promote her as such. In 1990 a C&C R series
was a true racer/cruiser. I have the English brochure which is quite
evenly divided in listing the 35s5's cruising and performance elements,
She won boat of the year in Paris and in Germany. Her interior was
built overseas and shipped to the USA and is higher quality than
ANYTHING else we looked at including Tartan, Sabre and C&C. You KNOW I
wanted to prefer the C&C.
I have not heard anyone list her as a racer cruiser and we certainly
did not buy her for racing. If I had any real interest in racing I'd
buy a boat that could compete...like a J105, which can take on other
105's here.
My boat is faster than yours, Sloco. She's also more comfortable, nicer
to look at, more modern and paid for. We have a fast cruiser and you
don't even have a proper enclosed head.
Let us know if you ever buy a nice boat.


RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Nope, and Beneteau did not promote her as such.

Well then that just proves it ain't fast. Every builder promotes his
boats strong points.
LOL...........................................

35s5 a slow 35 footer. But it has a big swim platform.

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Well then that just proves it ain't fast. Every builder promotes his
boats strong points.


And Beneteau dedicated half of the promotion on performance. Why not
compare her to a good performing boat that's in her class (and that
I've sailed) in the J34?
The J34 and C versions are quick fun boats. The C version was designed
with a more cruising oriented setup. But the 35s5 clobbers the J in
comfort. In fact the J boat has a cabin much like the C&C32 and no aft
cabin, way less stowage, small head, no swim platform or even a proper
sized nav station. The 35s5 is as fast or faster than the J.
No one has ever called a 35s5 a slow boat or even an average performer.
Average is a Catalina 36 (Which is not a bad sailing boat).
Is your beloved Express 35 a fast boat? Here on the LIS it's rated at
114. The deep fin 35s5 has the SAME RATING of 114. My WK version still
rates 126. And of course the deck and interior of the 35s5 are far
nicer. And before you saying anything else...the bunk in the aft cabin
of the Express 35 is just 42 inches wide...cramped for a couple. The V
is too short. And here's Goman's comment about the Express 35
performance:

"We aimed the Express 30 at the racing market," while Goman reflects.
"For the 35 we changed the emphasis to appeal to the cruising sailor
while maintaining the same high standard of performance."

In other words, Goman was aiming for the same market as the 35s5, but
was far less successful. Now, seriously, Loco. No trolling here. The
35s5 does what she does better than most in her age/price/size range.
My 1st choice is still the C&C 34XL, but the 7' draft is a killer and a
CB version is almost a myth...plus it's 30-40K more.
And finally...YOUR boat IS a racer/cruiser and my boat is STILL FASTER,
STILL MORE COMFORTABLE and STILL NICER LOOKING.

The last sentence was the troll part. But it's 100% true.


RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Oh, and here's a 35s5 that keeps winning against some good boats...

2006 Sailwave results
Fully Crewed - Spinnaker 2 - Start Time 11:15:00
1st Windriven Beneteau 35s5 65 Jonathan Vinden 129 58:25:25 62:14:19
1.0
2nd Radiance Dufour 38 54327 Colin Dykstra 111 58:11:48 63:46:40 2.0
3rd Jester'B' CS 36 2290 Jack Dinsdale 117 60:28:53 65:39:09 3.0
4th California Girl Catalins 320 342 David Moores 129 64:34:18 68:47:18
4.0
5th Quickbeam C&C 35-2 74744 John Di Lallo 129 65:00:14 69:14:55 5.0
6th Wind Spirit C&C 35-2 282 Alex Giannelia 129 82:21:34 87:44:15 6.0
7th Full Moon Catalina 38 358 Brad Taylor 129


And 35s5 comes in THIRD here, but look who's dead last!!!

While Sail 1 Fleet - Start time: 18:58:30
1 45 While Sail 1 Storm Boy Mike O'Conner 204
1:11:39 1:11:39 1.0
2 27 While Sail 1 Freestyle CS 40 5209 Jim Oldershaw
96 185830 1:14:26 1:14:26 2.0
3 23 While Sail 1 Windriven Beneteau 35s5 65 Jonathan
Vinden 147 190443 1:16:54 1:16:54 3.0
4 42 While Sail 1 Sea Jay Hunter 30-2WK 218 James Johnstone

186 185921 1:19:04 1:19:04 4.0
5 43 While Sail 1 Wayward Hunter 30-2WK 282 James Wilkinson

192 185830 1:24:30 1:24:30 5.0
6 29 While Sail 1 Ne Wa Sun Express 35 SD Brad Poulos
114 1:39:04 1:39:04 6.0



Good lord!!!

RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

"For the 35 we changed the emphasis to appeal to the cruising sailor

while maintaining the same high standard of performance."

Original brochure quote.
Do you know how many configurations the 35 was available in? Do some
research.

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Nope, and Beneteau did not promote her as such.

That's correct. The only thing Beneteau promoted about that series of
boats was the wacky Jules Verne, Capt. Nemo interior and how they paid
some famous grease ball designer to come up with it. The designer's
paycheck is why they charged a premium. And that's a fact. The
reviewers at the time questioned why anybody would pay a premium for a
"Ferarri" interior design instead of build quality.

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Original brochure quote.
Do you know how many configurations the 35 was available in?



Who cares? Every version I've seen online had the full cruising
interior and deep draft. They sought the same market as 35s5 or a J34c.
Only difference is that J Boat and Beneteau were on the right track and
suceeded. Express died on the vine.
Express 35 came in DEAD last behind the 35s5!!!


RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Ringmaster wrote:
Nope, and Beneteau did not promote her as such.

That's correct. The only thing Beneteau promoted about that series of
boats was the wacky Jules Verne, Capt. Nemo interior


Beneteau's promo pack, which I can send you via PDF, focuses 50% on the
boat's performance and shows most pics of the boat racing. Sloco is
wrong again, folks.

The designer's
paycheck is why they charged a premium.

You sure it wasn't the fact that Beneteau refused to allow crappy US
craftsman build the interior components and did it there, to be shipped
here? Are you sure it's not because of the fact that she has a high
quality steering system beyond the Express 35? Are you sure it's not
because the ports of the 35s5 are actually watertight and don't pop out
Express style??? Could it be because the 35s5 has a place for two tall
adults to sleep? Swim platform? Larger icebox? Proper sized wheel? No
wood used in chainplate connection? Better ventilation? More powerful
engine?

And that's a fact. The
reviewers at the time questioned why anybody would pay a premium for a
"Ferarri" interior design instead of build quality.

Sloco is lying. He can't show a single review backing him because there
aren't any. But please, Sloco...here's your chance. Tell us where the
reviews are.

Boat of the Year, Germany.
Boat of the Year, Paris boat show
Reviewed in French in Cruising World where they called the boat a major
advance; article entitled "The Valiant 35s5"

Sloco has been unable to provide a SINGLE link to a review of the 35s5
supporting his claims. Sloco can't seem to explain why the Express 35,
priced lower than the 35s5, still never caught on, while the 35s5 sold
over 430 hulls!

And Bob Perry has the following to say about the Stark interiors...

"The Beneteau interiors that were designed by Starck were greeted with
comments about radically modern style. I find these interiors novel and
modern but strangely comfortable with their blend of aluminum details
and curved, dark mahogany panels. In some ways, these interiors seem
MORE traditional than do the "apple crate" all teak interiors that
bombarded us in the last decade."

Slam! Sloco is the easiest fish here because he just makes stuff up!!!

RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Boob, you keep harping about the same bull****.

Are you sure it's not because of the fact that she has a high
quality steering system beyond the Express 35?

I f that gear driven steering system is the end all why don't more
builders use it? FARR doesn't use it and they would use anything that
would add to increased performance or feel. The new line of C&Cs don't
use it and they are trying to make a high tech statement. There are
more......want me to go on.

Are you sure it's not because the ports of the 35s5 are actually
watertight and don't pop out Express style???

Never happened on my boat or any other Express that I know about.


Could it be because the 35s5 has a place for two tall adults to
sleep?

Get a tape measure and check the bunks in a Express 35.

Swim platform?

LOL.............

Larger icebox?

Do you plan on fixing Thanksgiving dinner? Do you know the cu ft
of the Express icebox?

Proper sized wheel?

Yea, each boat has the proper sized wheel for it's cockpit. What's
your point?

No wood used in chainplate connection?

So what did Beneteau use ...... fiberglass with no core?

Better ventilation?

How's that Bub?

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
What makes a boat "fast?" It's an interesting question, because fruits
like Sloco seem to think it's about PHRF records...which would make my
boat faster than a C&C99! But PHRF is simply a handicapping system
designed to let a slow boat race against a fast one. Assuming you have
a rating that is fare (and many aren't) it's a measure of the crew and
NOT the boat, just like one class racing. Hey, PHRF is fine. Without it
most people can't have fun racing unless they own a very popular hull,
but no matter how you dress it, it's far far FAR from real racing.
Sloco won't admit to this...his life depends on PHRF because he owns a
boat that failed in production. And to be honest, even the successful
35s5 (well over 400 hulls) can't find enough sisters to get a big race
going...just 2 or 3 in my area and only one close by.
So to have a fast boat we can look at PHRF as a rough indicator of
comparative performance, but there are plenty of Catalina 27 PHRF wins.
Does this make it a fast boat among 27 foot cruisers? Sloco and Dave
would like to think so.
The term "performance cruiser" is tossed around with ease by builders
these days and the type of performance can mean anything. If you're
looking for speed and light air ability with good accommodations, my
35s5 is nicer than a new Catalina 34 or 38 and a brand new Jeaneau is
going to be nicer than either.
So is a CS27 a fast boat? Nope...not among other 27 footers. It's
slightly faster than average at best.
Is a 35s5 a fast boat? For her size I'd prefer to call her quick
because in her size range there are boats like the slightly larger 36XL
Is a Express 30 a fast boat? She's quick...not fast. Ugly and dated,
but not slow.

Now in strict terms of boat speed, the 35s5 is simply faster than the
Express 30, CS27, Nordica 30, Redcloud Turtle 43, Sadlittleman 30,
Kirie Elite 32, Catalina 28 and so on. The ONLY way any of these boats
"beats" a 35s5 is with the desperate handicap. In the real world I sail
the fastest monohull here and that's a fact.

Sorry, folks!


RB
35s5
NY

What makes a boat "fast?"

$peed co$t$. How fa$t do you want to go?

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

I f that gear driven steering system is the end all why don't more
builders use it? FARR doesn't use it and they would use anything that
would add to increased performance or feel. The new line of C&Cs don't

use it and they are trying to make a high tech statement. There are
more......want me to go on.

It's so funny that you use Farr and C&C...two modestly priced boats.
Why don't you do some research and see who is using the Whitlock
system. It costs almost 3 times more than cable based. It's also about
3 times more reliable.

Never happened on my boat or any other Express that I know about.

LIAR ALERT. Steve had a 30 that needed it's windows redone with Plexus
and made a webpage about it! It's a COMMON problem for the Goman and
C&C boats. The glue in port system sucks and is not a good way to go. I
know first hand as my yard just did several C&Cs with the problem as
well.

Get a tape measure and check the bunks in a Express 35.

Why? I got the measurement from the Canadian review of the 35. Are they
lying?


Swim platform?


Yeah, no one likes a swim platform...unless they have one.


Do you plan on fixing Thanksgiving dinner? Do you know the cu ft
of the Express icebox?

Well....the review says it's too small and I compared at Yachtworld
when a Express 35 was for sale and it's a 3rd smaller than the 35s5.


Yea, each boat has the proper sized wheel for it's cockpit. What's
your point?

The wheel of the Express looks like a toy, "right size" or not.


So what did Beneteau use ...... fiberglass with no core?

The Beneteau First series chainplate anchor is a solid stainless steel
T-bolt in a massive solid glass and epoxy covered bulb that is part of
the hull. Talk to a sailboat surveyor and ask them about it. It's the
best in the business and virtually industructable-designed to last
forever compared to the Express chainplates which are afixed to
BULKHEADS! They won't last forever and are vulnerable to leaks.

You sure know boats, Sloco!



RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com..
..

$peed co$t$. How fa$t do you want to go?


Have you seen the movie ''Worlds' Fastest Indian'' ?


Scotty

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Nutsy,

Are you saying your "Benny" is rated one boat up from Dead Last?
__________________________________
Express 35 came in DEAD last behind the 35s5!!! @ Nutsy post
-------------------------------------------------------




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

Express 35 came in DEAD last behind the 35s5!!! @ Nutsy post

The 35s5 finished 3rd and it's also the overall 1st place winner where
it races last year and this year (so far). The boat is called
Windriven. Meanwhile the Express 35 came in dead last in 6th.
Learn to read the whole post, Thom.


RB
35s5
NY

Fast Boats and the REAL WORLD
 

It probably had a more capable conductor with the "Baton" :^)

For a writer Nutsy, your knowledge of words could be improved.




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage