OK..Hoping for a bit of expert advice.
A few questions:

1. Will you point higher if you move your Jib forward by installing a
bowspirt?

2. Can you point higher if you un-rake your mast a bit?

Any tuning suggestion to get your boat to point higher?

Joe

Joe wrote:

OK..Hoping for a bit of expert advice.
A few questions:

1. Will you point higher if you move your Jib forward by installing a
bowspirt?


Possibly, but not necessarily. It will add power to the rig
by getting more air flow thru the slot, but it's most likely
to hurt pointing IMHO.


2. Can you point higher if you un-rake your mast a bit?


No, other way around. Rake the mast more to point higher. If
the boom is scraping the transom, take out a tiny bit of
rake


Any tuning suggestion to get your boat to point higher?


A bunch of little things can help, but the basics of
pointing are designed into the boat with the rig & foil
geometry.

The jib sheet angles make a big difference. If you can bring
the sheet lead in toward the centerline, making a narrower
angle to the centerline of the boat, that helps. Most
one-design classes restrict that adjustment for this reason
(although there's always a point of diminished return,
overdo it and the boat goes nowhere). You also want to get
the jib sheet lead adjusted fore/aft so that it pulls down
on the leach just the right amount to control twist of the
sail. The jib luff should "break evenly" which means it
should start luffing all up & down at once... not luff at
the top first (move the lead forward) or the bottom (move
the lead aft).

Depending on the rig geomtery & the cut of the sail, the rig
tension, especially on the forestay, helps pointing. Most
boats point best with a tight, straight forestay. Try
tightening first and see it that helps.

Don't ignore the underwater foils either. You've goot what
looks like an awesome rudder, is the centerboard in the same
shape?

And skill is a factor. You have to get the boat up to speed
before you can point high. If you just aim the boat at a
tight angle to the wind, the underwater foils will not have
good flow, the boat will make more leeway, and the flow of
air over the sails will not develop. There is a knack I have
worked at learning for years, where you get the boat up to
speed, then slowly pinch in the sails bit by bit without
distrubing the flow, so that in the end you are going 99% as
fast and pointing 5 degrees higher. Makes a big difference
on a crowded race course.

Coffee cup empty, time to go to work. Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Joe wrote:

OK..Hoping for a bit of expert advice.
A few questions:

1. Will you point higher if you move your Jib forward by installing a
bowspirt?


Possibly, but not necessarily. It will add power to the rig
by getting more air flow thru the slot, but it's most likely
to hurt pointing IMHO.


2. Can you point higher if you un-rake your mast a bit?


No, other way around. Rake the mast more to point higher. If
the boom is scraping the transom, take out a tiny bit of
rake

OK, I think I have my mast rake right, but perhaps to much curve... get
a tiny flutter at times on the trailing edge.


Any tuning suggestion to get your boat to point higher?


A bunch of little things can help, but the basics of
pointing are designed into the boat with the rig & foil
geometry.

The jib sheet angles make a big difference. If you can bring
the sheet lead in toward the centerline, making a narrower
angle to the centerline of the boat, that helps. Most
one-design classes restrict that adjustment for this reason
(although there's always a point of diminished return,
overdo it and the boat goes nowhere).

Got ya...since I'm not in any class of boats anything goes!

You also want to get
the jib sheet lead adjusted fore/aft so that it pulls down
on the leach just the right amount to control twist of the
sail. The jib luff should "break evenly" which means it
should start luffing all up & down at once... not luff at
the top first (move the lead forward) or the bottom (move
the lead aft).

Depending on the rig geomtery & the cut of the sail, the rig
tension, especially on the forestay, helps pointing.

Most
boats point best with a tight, straight forestay. Try
tightening first and see it that helps.

That may be my biggest problem, might go to rod rigging, regardless I'm
replacing the stays before next weeks races.


Don't ignore the underwater foils either. You've goot what
looks like an awesome rudder, is the centerboard in the same
shape? It's a 1/4 inch thick SS board. You can pull it all the way up, and move the pivot point aft as you raise it. With it all the way down the leading edge is strait up and down.

And skill is a factor. You have to get the boat up to speed
before you can point high. If you just aim the boat at a
tight angle to the wind, the underwater foils will not have
good flow, the boat will make more leeway, and the flow of
air over the sails will not develop. There is a knack I have
worked at learning for years, where you get the boat up to
speed, then slowly pinch in the sails bit by bit without
distrubing the flow, so that in the end you are going 99% as
fast and pointing 5 degrees higher. Makes a big difference
on a crowded race course.

Coffee cup empty, time to go to work. Hope this helps.

Yelp..Thanks

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

joe

Dave wrote:
On 22 Jun 2006 06:39:21 -0700, "Joe" said:

OK, I think I have my mast rake right, but perhaps to much curve... get
a tiny flutter at times on the trailing edge.

Do you have a leach line? If so, a little tweaking there should get rid of
the flutter.

Nope...no leach line. Just a cunningham and boom outhaul..The main is
loose footed.

Joe

Joe,

From a "Beached Bum;" I don't remember from your picture---Does your Rig
have a Back stay?

Remember, Higher means slower. I've suffered a lot of your pains while
racing a cruising boat---but there are something you can do.

I ease off on my Headstay (about 5" of Sag for a 35ft mast) and
installed a backstay adjuster. It gave me the ability to tighten the
forestay while increasing the force of the Main aft, for upwind work.
Downwind I released the backstay to get more power back into the sails.

Joe, with that new rudder it is very important that you do not (I mean;
DO NOT) get into the habit of using it to point your vessel higher. Up
wind speed is achieved with a neutral helm!

Set your Main up with the Top Batten parallel to the boom. (Don't let it
hook to windward) Set your outhaul to wind conditions. Horizontal
wrinkle for light air and vertical for hvy winds. If you're getting
Leech flutter and don't have a leech line, it might be a good idea to
install a flatting reef on the sail.

Also, remember you're sailing a "Knockabout" Enjoy what it give you. (I
learn that from my female crew) You're not going to beat full racing
boats But you can sail with them; on a Hdcp base and not boat for boat.


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/Pneuma

Thom Stewart wrote:

*good advice snipped*

The boat has backstays (mid mast), but not one from the top of the mast
to the transom, if thats what you"re talking about.



Also, remember you're sailing a "Knockabout" Enjoy what it give you. (I
learn that from my female crew) You're not going to beat full racing
boats But you can sail with them; on a Hdcp base and not boat for boat.


Are you saying don't try to make a silk purse outta a sows ear? :0)



http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/Pneuma

Nice web-site :0)

Joe

... There is a knack I have
worked at learning for years, where you get the boat up to
speed, then slowly pinch in the sails bit by bit without
distrubing the flow, so that in the end you are going 99% as
fast and pointing 5 degrees higher. Makes a big difference
on a crowded race course.


Dave wrote:
Roger Long, who frequents rec.boats.cruising, wrote a very decent article on
the technique for Points East. It's available at

http://www.pointseast.com/cgi-bin/co...KsEG&tmpl=news

Unfortunately, the accompanying diagram isn't in the online version of the
article.

He's talking about footing, not pinching.

It's all about knowing how your boat goes best... it sounds
to me like the captain in Roger's story didn't have much
experience with full keel boats, which typically don't
respond well to the technique in the earlier post (above).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Joe wrote:
Any tuning suggestion to get your boat to point higher?

Center your mast.
Rake it aft so the boat has helm in light air.
Install an adjustable backstay.
If your main is old and deep buy a new flat one.
Less jib halyard tension.
Put your wife and kids on the rail. Sail flat.

He's talking about footing, not pinching.


Dave wrote:
That's what I thought at first too, until I looked at the accompanying
diagram.

Well, you were right.

DSK

Loco,

He has a pretty large Main and no back stay. I'm not sure if he is using
"Jack Stays or not.

Sounds like a need for a good Vang and a flatting reef.

AND; Joe, learn you boat's best angle between footing and pointing.
Remember that pointing alone isn't the fastest up wind technique


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/Pneuma