Ethanol; working now
 

Dave,

You mean like "Defence Lawyer?"

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Ethanol; working now
 

"Dave" wrote
Mys Terry said:
It has higher octane,
increasing power, but doesn't get quite as many miles per gallon.

With statements like that, the author of the article earns himself all the
credibility of the NY Times (which is to say damned little credibility).

That's the point the Ethanol evangelists are dodging. Higher octane rating only
allows increased power IF used in a very high compression engine. Otherwise it
means lousy mileage for both gas and ethanol. But EPA will not allow US
consumers to have high compression cars because the make more NOx. So, unless
somebody reins in EPA, US E85 cars will get even ****tier mileage than the low
compression gasoline burners EPA stuck us with back in 1970. And if we did
change that rule we could build gas burners that got 30-40% better mileage. But
this isn't about common sense, it's about evangelism! Gasoline BAD, ethanol
GOOD, world FLAT evangelism! So we'll prolly allow cars that burn E85 to have
high compression motors, and make more NOx, but not gasoline fired cars. Makes
perfect sense to most people - they think the cars NASCAR races are just like
the ones they drive too.

Ethanol; working now
 

Oh Vito,

You're way way off Key, Go sit in the corner with Dave!

It has never, ever been about Gasoline Bad, Ethanol Good. Never!

It has been, from the beginning, about the high cost of fuel brought on
by the price of foreign crude. Ethanol is a usable fuel, available right
now to help relieve some of the pressure of our dependence on that
foreign fuel.

It was decided, years ago. that gasoline was THE preferred fuel. Even
when we used straight run gas. When demand exceeded the available
straight run we started to Crack our petroleum and to Polymerases it to
increase the supply. The Cracked gas proved to be better than the
Straight Run. By the way; Octane is based on the old straight run
molecule; eight (Octane) carbon atoms/ ten hydrogen atoms. Sorry to
explain High School Chemistry but there seems to be a lack of
understanding. This Link gives a proper Burning rate, without detonation
in an older internal combustion engine, with the longer piston stroke.

It is the standard fuel used in the Lab. Octane Engine. So, now that you
know Lab Octane, you and Dave. I ask the question of both of you. What
is High Octane. Also, Tell us the difference between Lab. Octane,
Chemical Octane, and Road Octane.

In the meantime, Let's do what is necessary to wean the USA from high
cost Foreign Crude and become Fuel Independent, once and for all.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Ethanol; working now
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote
You're way way off Key, Go sit in the corner with Dave!
It was decided, years ago. that gasoline was THE preferred fuel. ....

It is the standard fuel used in the Lab. Octane Engine. So, now that you
know Lab Octane, you and Dave. I ask the question of both of you. What
is High Octane. Also, Tell us the difference between Lab. Octane,
Chemical Octane, and Road Octane.

The difference is simply in the way you measure detonation resistance (octane
rating) and is meaningless to the discussion. Over 50 years ago "octane rating"
was indeed the percent of Octane in the fuel. However, before WW2 we found
additives, most notably tetraethel lead, that when added in microscopic
quantities, made heptane et al act even better than pure Octane, giving us
octane ratings of well over 100 in pump gas. This permitted higher cylinder
pressures prior to ignition, without detonation, and that provided more powerful
and more economic cars. The Ethel Corp held patents and made a lot of royalties
off this process. Compression ratio is often quoted but is only one determinate
of precombustion pressure.

Then California became overcrowded and began whining about 'smog' that burned
eyes long before anybody else noticed. Scientist determined that this was caused
by NOx, which could be reduced by lowering precombustion pressure. About the
same time "big oil" determined they could make bigger profits if they weren't
paying royalties to the Ethel Corp and that they could sell more gas if cars got
poorer gas mileage. So Congress invented EPA and it promptly mandated that all
cars run on unleaded regular. The next year gas mileage in typical family
sedans dropped from 18-22 mpg down to 12-15 mpg and, in less than a decade there
was a gas shortage that trippled the price. Since then, cars have become more
fuel efficient, but ever more expensive, by using high-dollar engine management
systems once found only on Indy and F-1 GP cars, and the family sedan has become
a thing of the past, but every gain has been matched and overcome by population
increases.

Obviously, we could reduce our gasoline consumption by almost 50% by simply
disestablishing EPA and its rules! Last I read we imported 60% of our oil. Not
all oil is used for gasoline but improving gas mileage by over 1/3 would go a
long way toward reducing that. Crazy? My 1957 Renault 4dr sedan got 45 mpg
using an archaic motor. What could it have gotten with today's technology?

I have nothing against ethanol IF it can provide a similar gain.

Ethanol; working now
 

Vito wrote:

"Thom Stewart" wrote
You're way way off Key, Go sit in the corner with Dave!
It was decided, years ago. that gasoline was THE preferred fuel. ....

It is the standard fuel used in the Lab. Octane Engine. So, now that you
know Lab Octane, you and Dave. I ask the question of both of you. What
is High Octane. Also, Tell us the difference between Lab. Octane,
Chemical Octane, and Road Octane.

The difference is simply in the way you measure detonation resistance (octane
rating) and is meaningless to the discussion. Over 50 years ago "octane rating"
[snipped useful info]

I have nothing against ethanol IF it can provide a similar gain.

Well written Vito. I wonder if we went back to high compression engines
and used less fuel to drive the same distance, would the amount NOx
produced be about the same? I miss my 68 383 with a four barrel Holly.

Cheers
Marty

Ethanol; working now
 

Marty,

Don't we all miss our "Muscle Cars" but I also miss gasoline well under
a dollar a gallon a lot more

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage