OzOne wrote
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=loose+change

I doubt these conspiracy theories for several reasons

a) Neither Bush nor Cheney are smart enough to pull it off and not get caught.
It would have required serious CIA involvement going back into the Clinton era
and CIA wasn't particularly friendly to Jr Bush at that time.

b) Neither the Cheney administration nor big oil nor the military had anything
to gain from 9/11. Bush had a hard on for Saddam not the Taliban and certainly
not the Saudis. 9/11 delayed his attack on Saddam.

c) 9/11 did NOT give B/C any reason to attack Saddam. The 9/11 attack came from
Saudi radicals holed up in Afghanistan, not Iraqis in Iraq. Had they needed an
excuse to invade Iraq they would have put some Iraqis up to it. Remember Gulf of
Tonkin??

d) The Afghan operation was relatively successful until Bush/Cheney pulled
resources out to hunt WMDs in Iraq BUT it was a CIA op not a Pentagon op. By
contrast the Iraq op WAS a Rumsfeld/Pentagon op and it is now a serious
embarassment to them all - so serious generals are calling for rummy's
resignation.

Note that I never implied that Bush was morally incapable of doing such a thing,
just incapable of doing it without getting caught.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.f...rash1_anim.gif

Look some people think a shadow is a seperate missle

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

"Vito" wrote in message
...
OzOne wrote
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=loose+change

I doubt these conspiracy theories for several reasons

a) Neither Bush nor Cheney are smart enough to pull it off and not get
caught.

That's the sharpest barb of all! That is can't be true because our leaders
are too f**king stupid to pull it off!
What if they're just pretending to be stupid to distract us from their
ingenious plan to own it all?
Either way, it's scary.
Scout

OzOne wrote
I'm often amazed at the belief that all the Govt tells you is truth,
and all else is a "conspiracy theory".

"All" is such a very big word that's seldom true either way. But I do not
believe the US Gummymint incited 9/11 to justify attacking Iraq as they did the
Gulf of Tonkin incident to justify the 'nam buildup. I say again:

For some yet to be discovered reason Blundering Bush had decided to attack
Saddam long before 9/11 and all of the reasons offered have proven false. That
creates fertile soil for conspiracy theories. But Saddam and the Islamic jihad
movement, that perpitrated the 9/11 attacks are two very different things just
as Hitler's Germany and Stalin's USSR were two different, though similar
animals. Driven by rational self preservation, Saddam tried to get along with
the USA. His Kuwaiti misadventure arose from a misunderstanding with the US
ambassador about what US response was likely to be to his invasion. Had he known
what would happen I doubt he would have done it. And, since he'd been well
"educated" by Desert Storm, he'd since complied with "orders" as best he could
ever since. So why did we invade? Bush only knows. Maybe "the voices" told him
to do it. But the fact remains that he had made that decision months, perhaps
years, before 9/11 so 9/11 could not have led to it.

OTOH, unlike Saddam, Islamic jihadists are driven by religious furor, not
rational thought. In this they more resemble Bush or Reagan than Saddam. They
seek to impose Islam on the world and perceive secular USA as their biggest
enemy. They had been attacking us for decades before 9/11. 9/11 was just one
more in a string of attacks that would have happened, or at least been
attempted, even if Bush had never been president. A wiser man may have thwarted
it but it's silly to theorize that Bush promoted 9/11 to justify attacking
Saddam.

On the other side of that coin, the jahidists long hated Saddam's government,
arguably the most secular one in the region, almost as much as they despise the
US, and even had a hit out on him. So, any attempts to use jihad attacks to
justify Bush's blunder are equally specious. The chains of events, and command,
leading to the two incidents are entirely seperate.

Back in the 1960's McNamara & friends needed an excuse to invade Vietnam. So
they suckered the North Vietnamese into the Gulf of Tonkin incident. It worked
because *North Vietnamese* boats appeared to attack Turner Joy. However, it
would not have provided an excuse to attack Australia because Oz had no part in
the staged attack. Had Bush wanted to manufacture a similar excuse to invade
Iraq he would have had CIA sucker some *Iraqi* radicals into something like
9/11. Give him (and CIA) a little credit - his advisors, certainly would not
have picked nuts from a friendly nation (Saudi Arabia) led out of Afghanistan
when there were plenty of crazies in Iraq to incite - as witness their suicidal
firings on US warplanes patrolling the no-fly zone and the ongoing insurgency -
when they could have easily incited real Iraqis.

Considering all this, it is almost certain that 9/11 and Iraq are two unrelated
events, despite all the theories pro and con -- and that, if anything 9/11 blind
sided Blundering Bush just like everybody else (Though in hindsight one must
wonder why) and, if anything, interfered with his plans to attack Saddam. This
judgement has nothing to do with any trust or mistrust of government propaganda.

OzOne wrote in message ...
On 4 May 2006 09:55:02 -0500, Dave scribbled
thusly:

On Thu, 4 May 2006 09:12:11 -0400, "Vito" said:

I doubt these conspiracy theories for several reasons

There's a very interesting opinion piece from David Brooks in today's
Times
on the subject of the new Kevin Phillips book. Facts seldom interfere with
the spinning of conspiracy theories by those so inclined.

I'm often amazed at the belief that all the Govt tells you is truth,
and all else is a "conspiracy theory".

Not half as amazed as I am that people keep coming up with conspiracy
theories to "explain" how governments "always" lie to their citizens.

What do you think the Air Force has at Area 51, Oz?

Max

Max

I'm often amazed at the belief that all the Govt tells you is truth,
and all else is a "conspiracy theory".

Oz1...of the 3 twins.


And, I'm equally amazed that you latch on to anything that might
ping as American, and twist it into something it is not. For as much
as you appear to have your head screwed on straight, this aspect of
your persona tells it all. Your head has been spun around 360
degrees on the snow park moguls, and, just like "Mike the Headless
Chicken", you're still walking around eating corn.

Sorry no Starbucks.

Capt. Suzy an Admiral Thomas
35s5
NY